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Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

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dallasrookie
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby dallasrookie » 28 Sep 2017 08:25

Image

Graphic show states with fulfillment center and sort centers, I feel that these states in green maybe on Amazon's shortlist, because of the investment initiated.

Here are states with no income tax and that are green above = Florida, Texas and Washington don't have income tax. (which is closely aligned to Washington St. way of business)

Here are states with highest income tax California 13.3%, Minnesota 9.85%, New Jersey 8.97%
and District of Columbia 8.95%. I wonder if they will be eliminated?

Just my thoughts! :D

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tanzoak
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 28 Sep 2017 09:08

No reason that HQ2 would be located near fulfillment/sort centers, but no state income tax is definitely an advantage.

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muncien
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby muncien » 28 Sep 2017 09:11

This could set the Design District on fire for development as Uptown/Harwood/Victory Park have very limited development sites available (especially after all of this).

I was thinking the exact same thing... Even though the VP proposal doesn't call for anything in DD, that area would no doubt become one of the coolest neighborhoods almost overnight.
I really didn't think VP had the space to land HQ2 (at least not without putting them in mega skyscrapers which Amazon doesn't seem to care for), but this proposal seems quite solid. Kudos for coming up with this, and as many had mentioned, it seems that Hillwood has some history and perhaps an inside track here. Well done.
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tamtagon
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 28 Sep 2017 10:25

muncien wrote:
This could set the Design District on fire for development as Uptown/Harwood/Victory Park have very limited development sites available (especially after all of this).

I was thinking the exact same thing... Even though the VP proposal doesn't call for anything in DD, that area would no doubt become one of the coolest neighborhoods almost overnight.
I really didn't think VP had the space to land HQ2 (at least not without putting them in mega skyscrapers which Amazon doesn't seem to care for), but this proposal seems quite solid. Kudos for coming up with this, and as many had mentioned, it seems that Hillwood has some history and perhaps an inside track here. Well done.


Is there any doubt adjacent developers with land would join the team? Harwood International is right there in Uptown and Headington has a block in the CBD. Should HQ2 spread out, two of the most noteworthy, visible skyscrapers in town have boodles of available square footage....

Both Harwood and Headington had presentations revealed, I think Headington's pitch for ATT HQ got the prize for unbuilt architecture, and Harwood had that tallest in town twin tower dealio that seems to have been a leak of renderings, but whatever.... millions of square footage in queue, near shovel ready.

BUT -- is Dallas the sort of place Amazon workers would want? It's a weird thing about Dallas... people are often reluctant to move to the city/area, but end up loving it. It's a situation on the books and experienced by transplants for decades. Perhaps their surprise is what stands out the most, but after a while, people come to love living in Dallas/Texas. I think that is the case much more often than not, certainly not always, but the pitch for HQ2 needs to work that into the proposal somehow. Fort Worth is the wildcard. There's a whole other world 40 miles west, and it's got everything any other sunbelt city could have. I'd say the difference between Dallas and Fort Worth is more than the difference between Dallas and Atlanta, Dallas and Houston. It's a potent, esoteric attribute of North Texas no 'regional' plan for anything has ever fully developed. Now is probably the time. Collin County, that's just added cream!

DPatel304
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 28 Sep 2017 11:09

tamtagon wrote:BUT -- is Dallas the sort of place Amazon workers would want? It's a weird thing about Dallas... people are often reluctant to move to the city/area, but end up loving it. It's a situation on the books and experienced by transplants for decades.


Unfortunately, we don't have the best reputation, and I'm not sure how we can shake that. People are probably reluctant because of the reputation Texas has, but they love it here because they find it's largely untrue (especially in the city).

I hope Amazon keeps in mind that they can completely transform our city with their move. Maybe right now it's not hip or young enough, or the density isn't quite there, but they announce their headquarters, and we will be well on their way to being dense, hip, and young within just a few years.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 28 Sep 2017 12:39

DPatel304 wrote:
tamtagon wrote:BUT -- is Dallas the sort of place Amazon workers would want? It's a weird thing about Dallas... people are often reluctant to move to the city/area, but end up loving it. It's a situation on the books and experienced by transplants for decades.


Unfortunately, we don't have the best reputation, and I'm not sure how we can shake that. People are probably reluctant because of the reputation Texas has, but they love it here because they find it's largely untrue (especially in the city).

I hope Amazon keeps in mind that they can completely transform our city with their move. Maybe right now it's not hip or young enough, or the density isn't quite there, but they announce their headquarters, and we will be well on their way to being dense, hip, and young within just a few years.


That's what hurt Dallas with Boeing. I think this time around we're better off.

However, I see Dallas on the same plane w/ the other Sunbelt cities (ATL & HOU).
It will be tough to compete w/ cities like Philadelphia that offer the urban experience that Amazon likes.

Dallas should look into improving the city's walk-ability and urban fabric. A lot of this starts with zoning but I don't see the city doing anything on this front.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 28 Sep 2017 12:47

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:Dallas should look into improving the city's walk-ability and urban fabric. A lot of this starts with zoning but I don't see the city doing anything on this front.


If Amazon doesn't end up coming to Dallas, hopefully it'll be a wake-up call for the city. So, I'm hoping, either way, it'll be a positive for the city.

I wasn't on these forums around the time Boeing was hunting for a new headquarters, so I'm not sure what transpired during that time, nor do I know if Dallas saw it as a 'wake-up call'.

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muncien
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby muncien » 28 Sep 2017 13:53

So... According to DJB articles, Frisco now has no fewer than SIX sites listed for HQ2, Allen has TWO, and then you've got the DFW airport site. None of these meet the RFP requirement for having access to transit ON SITE. Allen (which is NOT a DART member city) seems the 'closest' by saying DART owns ROW at one of the sites.
Is there an authority within the regional effort that ensures either the proposals meet the requirements or at least come close to it in the very near future?
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DPatel304
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 28 Sep 2017 14:03

Jeez.. do these suburbs not realize they are just hurting our chances as a region. Too many proposals from DFW means the few good ones we have will just get drowned out.

Here's one from Midtown:
https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... urban.html

Midtown is certainly more realistic than any of the northern suburbs, but I still don't think it's a good fit at all for Amazon.

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muncien
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby muncien » 28 Sep 2017 14:22

DPatel304 wrote:Jeez.. do these suburbs not realize they are just hurting our chances as a region. Too many proposals from DFW means the few good ones we have will just get drowned out.

Here's one from Midtown:
https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... urban.html

Midtown is certainly more realistic than any of the northern suburbs, but I still don't think it's a good fit at all for Amazon.


I agree... Midtown is on a better footing than the others I mentioned by still qualifies by only a stretch. I don't buy the 'potential elevated rail' connecting to a 'potential DART Cotton Belt line'. That doesn't really meet the requirement. But at least they have bus service from a prominent transit authority. I don't think that fully meets the HQ2 requirement intent, but from a technical perspective it does.

Like I said yesterday... I just hope we are watering down our options to the extent that the strong ones don't stand out. Plus, submitting sites that don't meet the base criteria doesn't look very good. And with plenty of qualifying sites, there really isn't any reason to.
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whi5125
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby whi5125 » 28 Sep 2017 14:31

God, just screw the burbs, they are going to water down the chances of the entire region and they dont seem to get that they dont meet the requirements.

However they of course will do what they always do, throw money at Amazon and give them crazy incentives which will hurt the city in the long run when the lack on taxes comes to bite them. Dallas better be ready to offer tax breaks and incentives and not sit back and let the usual crowd crow on about how this doesnt help south Dallas and we shouldnt pay for any of this with city dollars....which will cause us to loose out just like we did with the Fair Park Dallas Cowboys proposal and countless others. You have to play the game a little.

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Dettmann1
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Dettmann1 » 28 Sep 2017 14:47

muncien wrote:
This could set the Design District on fire for development as Uptown/Harwood/Victory Park have very limited development sites available (especially after all of this).

I was thinking the exact same thing... Even though the VP proposal doesn't call for anything in DD, that area would no doubt become one of the coolest neighborhoods almost overnight.
I really didn't think VP had the space to land HQ2 (at least not without putting them in mega skyscrapers which Amazon doesn't seem to care for), but this proposal seems quite solid. Kudos for coming up with this, and as many had mentioned, it seems that Hillwood has some history and perhaps an inside track here. Well done.


Mark Cuban made some interesting comments in a story the other day about how he was pretty much willing to do whatever possible to bring Amazon to Dallas. I wouldn't be suprised if part of his design district land gets incorporated into the Victory park bid at some point. I realize there is probably some bad blood between him and Hillwood, but it could provide the link between Victory Park and spreading a theoretical Amazon campus to the Trinity.

Combine Victory park with some additional and in the Design district and I think you probably have the best proposal hands down for Amazon. It literally checks every box from a site perspective and have access to both the TRE and DART while also being in town. Its pretty much got access to all 4 lines of Dart which I also view as a plus.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby lakewoodhobo » 28 Sep 2017 14:57

whi5125 wrote:I do hope that the Mathews and Riverside site puts something forth, because that would really be great to transform that area from nothing to something spectacular with the incoming Trinity River Park.


And here it is:

Texas high-speed rail making play for Amazon’s HQ2 in downtown Dallas
https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... ml?ana=twt

"There are a lot of good projects in the Dallas area, but I think high-speed rail differentiates us because you can do a lot lower-density development over more city blocks and it will feel more like a campus," he added.

The earmarked acreage has existing real estate already on the ground, and easily converted by the 2019 deadline set by Amazon.

South Side Studios, where TNT's Dallas was filmed, has about 400,000 square feet of space that could be converted from two warehouses and a four-story concrete building that was a former cotton warehouse.

Matthews Southwest also owns a nearly 100,000-square-foot building on Corinth Street that was formerly owned by Dallas County Community College.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tnexster » 28 Sep 2017 17:25

I have considered the HSR project a huge plus for the Amazon HQ2 project. It certainly places Dallas in a unique league for any company considering the city for a project of this size. It certainly can't hurt anything.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby dukemeredith » 28 Sep 2017 17:51

tamtagon wrote:BUT -- is Dallas the sort of place Amazon workers would want? It's a weird thing about Dallas... people are often reluctant to move to the city/area, but end up loving it. It's a situation on the books and experienced by transplants for decades. Perhaps their surprise is what stands out the most, but after a while, people come to love living in Dallas/Texas. I think that is the case much more often than not, certainly not always [...]



I may get murdered for saying this on the forum, but my experience has been the exact opposite. In my field, Dallas is an extremely desireably place to land a job. The Dallas market pays the same as NYC, DC, Chicago, LA, but with a fraction of the cost of living. I was the biggest Dallas cheerleader before moving here.

Once here, though, my grandiose images of a vibrant and fast-paced urban environment quickly faded. Developers over-sell and under-deliver. Walkability is improving, but still mediocre. Infrastructure is terrible (though hopefully those roads will get fixed come the November bond election). The city wastes its best assets (in looking at you, Trinity River Park and Fair Park...). The people here, while very friendly, have a weirdly Dallas-centric worldview. And many, if not most, opine on Dallas's greatness (because, Texas) and Dallas's terribleness (because, homeless) without ever having been outside of Dallas or Texas or the South-Central US!

(For the record, I never really understand when people claim Dallas has a homeless 'epidemic.' To me, that's a dead giveaway that the speaker hasn't been anywhere else. Comparatively, the homeless in Dallas are quite benign).

There is so much potential here, and Amazon would do great things for Dallas to meet that potential. But as it stands, the urban experience of Dallas is blown away by almost every other major US city I've ever visited. Perhaps Dallas has earned a poor reputation with most because it simply hasn't 'arrived' yet. We're still a 'young city.'

But I get disenchanted every time I think about how much longer it's going to take...

/rant

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mdg109
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby mdg109 » 28 Sep 2017 18:10

There's no way we can compete on urban experience with the major US cities. We don't even have regular retail downtown. What I have noticed though, is a lot of people coming back from having lived in NYC and LA for several years, and really liking Dallas, not to mention people from smaller or comparable cities loving it here. We don't have a major urban experience yet, but we do have great neighborhoods in close proximity to each other.

That said, my favorite sites right now is this HSR site and Victory Park. These both could spill into DT and really speed things up.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 28 Sep 2017 18:34

dukemeredith wrote:
tamtagon wrote:BUT -- is Dallas the sort of place Amazon workers would want? It's a weird thing about Dallas... people are often reluctant to move to the city/area, but end up loving it. It's a situation on the books and experienced by transplants for decades. Perhaps their surprise is what stands out the most, but after a while, people come to love living in Dallas/Texas. I think that is the case much more often than not, certainly not always [...]



I may get murdered for saying this on the forum, but my experience has been the exact opposite. In my field, Dallas is an extremely desireably place to land a job. The Dallas market pays the same as NYC, DC, Chicago, LA, but with a fraction of the cost of living. I was the biggest Dallas cheerleader before moving here.

Once here, though, my grandiose images of a vibrant and fast-paced urban environment quickly faded. Developers over-sell and under-deliver. Walkability is improving, but still mediocre. Infrastructure is terrible (though hopefully those roads will get fixed come the November bond election). The city wastes its best assets (in looking at you, Trinity River Park and Fair Park...). The people here, while very friendly, have a weirdly Dallas-centric worldview. And many, if not most, opine on Dallas's greatness (because, Texas) and Dallas's terribleness (because, homeless) without ever having been outside of Dallas or Texas or the South-Central US!

(For the record, I never really understand when people claim Dallas has a homeless 'epidemic.' To me, that's a dead giveaway that the speaker hasn't been anywhere else. Comparatively, the homeless in Dallas are quite benign).

There is so much potential here, and Amazon would do great things for Dallas to meet that potential. But as it stands, the urban experience of Dallas is blown away by almost every other major US city I've ever visited. Perhaps Dallas has earned a poor reputation with most because it simply hasn't 'arrived' yet. We're still a 'young city.'

But I get disenchanted every time I think about how much longer it's going to take...

/rant


Dallas will never have an urban experience until it changes it's code.

Equally disappointing is the city's inability to get reliable transit.

Here Dallas' crappy transit gets a S/O

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/ ... ng/541296/

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Cord1936
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Cord1936 » 28 Sep 2017 19:28

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
Dallas will never have an urban experience until it changes it's code.

Equally disappointing is the city's inability to get reliable transit.

Here Dallas' crappy transit gets a S/O

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/ ... ng/541296/


Will building D2 do anything to help alleviate the efficiency of our mass transit system with doubling the capacity through the Downtown central hub?

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tanzoak
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 28 Sep 2017 21:09

I wouldn't worry about too many proposals hurting our bid. Amazon is going to get literally hundreds of bids, and most of them will go straight to the trash without consideration. Only the ones with big-time players behind them are going to even get a look.

That's why I'm so excited about the Hillwood proposal. They've built 14 million square feet in 17 buildings across 8 states for Amazon, and they proposed a tower on this site to Amazon in June? Hell yes. Relationships are important. When you add on the advantages of the site, that's automatic finalist material.

Whatever Frisco or Cowboys stadium or wherever does is irrelevant. Amazon will be seriously considering this Hillwood proposal.

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tamtagon
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 28 Sep 2017 21:29

Another one:

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... tower-news
Latest Amazon HQ2 pitch includes Dallas landmark Reunion Tower and The News
by:Maria Halkias

...The 50-acre proposal includes the former site of Reunion arena and wraps around the southwest end of downtown Dallas and sits above the Trinity River. It includes Union Station where the DART train, the TRE to Fort Worth, the D-Link to Oak Cliff all meet.
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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 29 Sep 2017 09:13

Just goes to show how under developed Downtown is.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby lakewoodhobo » 29 Sep 2017 10:11

tanzoak wrote:That's why I'm so excited about the Hillwood proposal. They've built 14 million square feet in 17 buildings across 8 states for Amazon, and they proposed a tower on this site to Amazon in June? Hell yes. Relationships are important.


I thought the same thing. Not sure how far along those plans were for a small Amazon building in Victory Park, but the fact that they already had their foot in the door is a good sign.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby muncien » 29 Sep 2017 10:23

Amazon claims to want to be a 'city builder'. Remember what Seattle was like prior to Amazon...
When thinking about a cities core when considering it's walkability, yes Dallas falls to near the bottom (uh, other than LA... which is like Dallas but with 20x more homeless). But Dallas has lots of special neighborhoods that have great intimacy and walkability... and these neighborhoods are very close to the core. All cities have similar further out, (ahem... LA again), but we certainly do much better here. Such a situation bodes well for Amazon. They have the potential to score a real estate deal, and build a city at the same time, all while having strong supporting cast all around them.
I've lived in Orlando, Atlanta, LA, and Dallas, and routinely visit Chicago, NYC, Denver, and SF. While Dallas may not top that list in many categories, it certainly tops when it comes to potential for Amazon, when considering the factors they listed... At least from my experiences with each.
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby rantanamo » 29 Sep 2017 13:27

tamtagon wrote:Another one:

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... tower-news
Latest Amazon HQ2 pitch includes Dallas landmark Reunion Tower and The News
by:Maria Halkias

...The 50-acre proposal includes the former site of Reunion arena and wraps around the southwest end of downtown Dallas and sits above the Trinity River. It includes Union Station where the DART train, the TRE to Fort Worth, the D-Link to Oak Cliff all meet.

Incredible potential. Potential to connect with what is existing. transit lines of all kinds

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whi5125
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby whi5125 » 29 Sep 2017 14:39

The Reunion One is Interesting but I dont know if Amazon would want it. Though really there are three real proposals that meet all of the requirements.

1. Victory Park / Hillwood - Is the most likely One
2. Matthews Southwest Site - Probably has more potential than many think with it being such a blank slate, high speed rail (which no one else has), and if Dallas really pushes and actually moves on the Trinity River park, has the potential to be the most game changing.
3. Reunion site - Not a bad location and would be a great location, but this area will likely develop anyway thanks to the incoming High speed rail line and station nearby.

All of the suburbs proposals are jokes and they need to stop wasting time.

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muncien
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby muncien » 29 Sep 2017 15:22

whi5125 wrote:The Reunion One is Interesting but I dont know if Amazon would want it. Though really there are three real proposals that meet all of the requirements.

1. Victory Park / Hillwood - Is the most likely One
2. Matthews Southwest Site - Probably has more potential than many think with it being such a blank slate, high speed rail (which no one else has), and if Dallas really pushes and actually moves on the Trinity River park, has the potential to be the most game changing.
3. Reunion site - Not a bad location and would be a great location, but this area will likely develop anyway thanks to the incoming High speed rail line and station nearby.

All of the suburbs proposals are jokes and they need to stop wasting time.


Matthews and Reunion complement each other well. If either were to get HQ2, the other would no doubt fill in quickly with supporting development. But, Victory seems to be holding the better cards IMO, and while both Reunion and Matthews would get a little bit of spill over from a VP nod, the Design District would be the main beneficiary of spill over development.
Really... these are all good options. A couple from Irving (Urban Center and Hidden Ridge) follow closely behind, with all other options well behind the pack.
Now let's see how well the Regional Chamber can throw this together...
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby eburress » 29 Sep 2017 16:04

Based on what I've read of Amazon and its employees' priorities, I expect the Deep Ellum/Fair Park option (the one straddling I-30), is also be a very viable option. It's close to a number of neighborhoods which to me, seem exactly like the sort Amazon is targeting. I wouldn't sell it short.

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tanzoak
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 29 Sep 2017 17:18

Reunion is not a great site IMO. The circulation around there is awful. Notice that the whole thing is wedged between rail tracks and the highways, with very limited access into and out of the site--only one off-ramp on the far north side, and limited connection to existing local roads across the tracks or under the highway (which won't be easy to create). Getting 50,000 people into and out of there would be a nightmare.

Location near HSR is not an advantage. Why does Amazon care about getting to Houston a little easier?

And the Deep Ellum/Fair Park site is much worse than the Reunion option. It's on the wrong side of everything, making it quite inconvenient to get to from where the workforce will be living. The fact that there's absolutely nothing going on around there now should be a hint.. there's a reason why no one is interested in locating there.

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tanzoak
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 29 Sep 2017 17:58

I think it's helpful to visual travel times to the sites. Let's compare the Victory site (measured from AAC) to the Deep Ellum/Fair Park site (measured from Fair Park DART) at 45 minutes and even more importantly 25 minutes.

Here's a travel time map of 45 minutes in rush hour traffic. Note that whereas FP cuts out at 635 and Loop 12, VP shoots up significantly into northern suburbs like Farmer's Branch and Addison and over to most of Irving and a chunk of Grand Prairie.

Image
Image

Now here's a travel time map of 25 minutes in rush hour traffic. This one shows an even bigger difference. The map for FP doesn't include anything north of Northwest Highway! And includes only a portion of University Park. Basically the only neighborhood where this location is more convenient is Lakewood. VP, on the other hand, includes most of north Dallas, going all the way up to 635 around the Tollway.

Image
Image

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rantanamo
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby rantanamo » 30 Sep 2017 03:11

tanzoak wrote:Reunion is not a great site IMO. The circulation around there is awful. Notice that the whole thing is wedged between rail tracks and the highways, with very limited access into and out of the site--only one off-ramp on the far north side, and limited connection to existing local roads across the tracks or under the highway (which won't be easy to create). Getting 50,000 people into and out of there would be a nightmare.

Location near HSR is not an advantage. Why does Amazon care about getting to Houston a little easier?

And the Deep Ellum/Fair Park site is much worse than the Reunion option. It's on the wrong side of everything, making it quite inconvenient to get to from where the workforce will be living. The fact that there's absolutely nothing going on around there now should be a hint.. there's a reason why no one is interested in locating there.


disagree with this entire post.

a.) The Fair Park site is easy to get to by surface streets and could have rail run from the opposite direction. East Dallas is already quickly gentrifying as a cheaper Uptown alternative and I imagine that would quickly march towards I-30 and spill over. There are plenty of pricey townhomes and new apartment and even single family homes popping up all around me(in Old East Dallas) in some pretty shady areas. That's a damn great option if they want something that embodies all the things that they themselves are requesting. I've long though some company will get that land on the cheap right and build something great.

b.) HSR is a huge option because options are huge. Especially for its own employees. Amazon plans to have presence in every major US city(hence the airport request). We also don't know the Whole Foods Story yet, either. Plus, if HSR does get built and works between Houston and Dallas, that will open other markets.

Reunion isn't cut off from anything. Especially the way the horsehoe project has been rebuilt. Any cut-off connection from downtown could be remedied easily, not to mention here's their own chance to build an urban campus of their own. This might be the most accessible spot in the metroplex when it comes to modes of transportation.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby PonyUp13 » 30 Sep 2017 09:35

If Dallas lands this (if Cedars, DE, or VP) the streetcar extensions the D360 plan envisioned stretching outwards from the core would probably get accelerated to the winning neighborhood.

A DE loop tying in with the Main St DTD route approved a week or two ago could hit up Expo Park nicely if that won.

A streetcar going up Houston St to Design District and back on Victory Ave would circle them in transit in VP

Cedars you could make a nice circuit that loops in the West End

I'm investing far too much emotional energy in thinking about why Amazon should come here

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Hwulivn » 30 Sep 2017 09:47

I’d be more worried about our chances if Downtown Dallas INC and Hillwood weren’t involved. However, I hope the decision makers fully understand the “urban” variables (mobility, connectivity, the pedestrian realm) Amazon is looking for.

Many of the decision makers in this region do not partake in that experience and have huge blind spots when it comes to these things. I’m hoping Downtown Dallas Inc, Hillwood and Matthews Southwest have opportunities to drive these points home. Midtown might even be a good option, but I prefer central Dallas since I believe an Amazon campus in Midtown would actually hurt downtown. A central Dallas location also makes a much more compelling situation that could be leveraged in ways that are still not fully recognized.

I agree with PonyUp13’s comments, but wonder if Amazon will see Victory Park as too cramped and to allow for the development of the campus they invision. Or, it might be exactly what they are looking for. In the end, I think Dallas’s best chances are the HSR station location, Central downtown (DDI’s proposal), or the east side of downtown. Personally, I’m hoping for the HSR station location.

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tanzoak
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 30 Sep 2017 11:37

rantanamo wrote:a.) The Fair Park site is easy to get to by surface streets and could have rail run from the opposite direction. East Dallas is already quickly gentrifying as a cheaper Uptown alternative and I imagine that would quickly march towards I-30 and spill over. There are plenty of pricey townhomes and new apartment and even single family homes popping up all around me(in Old East Dallas) in some pretty shady areas. That's a damn great option if they want something that embodies all the things that they themselves are requesting. I've long though some company will get that land on the cheap right and build something great.


Did you not see the maps in the previous post? Fair Park has terrible access.. Can't even get to most of University Park in 25 minutes, much less anything north of Northwest Highway. If you need 50,000 white collar workers, you have to be pulling from a much larger area than what Fair Park offers.

Even if you need way fewer workers than what Amazon needs, you have to be pulling from a much larger area.. which is why you don't see any offices anywhere near that area, even for companies that are much more price-sensitive than the 4th largest company in the world.

b.) HSR is a huge option because options are huge. Especially for its own employees. Amazon plans to have presence in every major US city(hence the airport request). We also don't know the Whole Foods Story yet, either. Plus, if HSR does get built and works between Houston and Dallas, that will open other markets.


The whole point of HQ2 is that Amazon is spurning the whole "put a couple thousand people in every city" model and is instead making a second huge concentration. Like, HSR is certainly not a disadvantage, but it's not really a particular advantage like it would be if we were talking about the HQ of an oil company or engineering firm or someone else who would really value the Houston connection.

Reunion isn't cut off from anything. Especially the way the horsehoe project has been rebuilt. Any cut-off connection from downtown could be remedied easily, not to mention here's their own chance to build an urban campus of their own. This might be the most accessible spot in the metroplex when it comes to modes of transportation.


I don't hate the Reunion site, I just don't really like it, and I'm a little confused about how you plan to "easily" fix the circulation issues. The worse regional location (a few very-congested miles further from everywhere north of Downtown, including DFW), the significantly less attractive local location, the circulation issues (not only are there few routes into the site, but also more people will be accessing it via the highway instead of local roads compared to Victory) make me very skeptical that this would be a better option than Victory. The cheaper land is it's one advantage, but I just don't see that winning out over the other concerns.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Cord1936 » 02 Oct 2017 22:16

The link at the end of my post is to an assessment of Houston's chances of winning Amazon's HQ2 competition authored by a couple of Houston boosters. Net of it all is that Houston doesn't really have a snowball's chance in hell of winning the prize and they try to make themselves feel better about it by saying "it just isn't a good fit for Amazon or Houston".

What makes the article a bit more interesting is there are two or three references to the Dallas area's offerings. There is also a very high level assessment of all leading candidates for HQ2 and giving what the writer thinks are the chief positives and/or negatives for the different cities. The only negative he mentions about Dallas is our lack of the "coolness factor" along with Atlanta. As if that is going to be the reason Amazon wouldn't pick either Dallas or Atlanta.

I doubt seriously if that is going to be the main criteria by which Amazon decides where to invest $5 billion dollars and its future. If Dallas has in spades everything else Amazon wants and needs then the coolness factor is icing on the cake ... and there is actually enough of that here already that we attract a significant number of millennials to the area ... that will only jump with an Amazon HQ2 decision for Dallas.

And as CNN Tech mentions about Dallas in their short list of the 8 leading cities for HQ2:

"Dallas/Fort Worth earned a spot on the real estate group CBRE's rankings of the geographic locations with the most tech talent this year. While many cities are suffering a brain drain -- when locally educated workers move elsewhere -- Dallas was bested only by San Francisco in terms of attracting tech talent. Its cost of living is also significantly lower than other tech hotspots, such as San Francisco and New York."

So stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

Houston chances article: http://houstonstrategies.blogspot.com/2017/10/assessing-houstons-chances-and.html

CNN Tech article: http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/11/technology/amazon-cities/index.html

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tanzoak » 02 Oct 2017 23:24

Cord1936 wrote:I doubt seriously if ["coolness factor"] is going to be the main criteria by which Amazon decides where to invest $5 billion dollars and its future. If Dallas has in spades everything else Amazon wants and needs then the coolness factor is icing on the cake ... and there is actually enough of that here already that we attract a significant number of millennials to the area ... that will only jump with an Amazon HQ2 decision for Dallas.

While many cities are suffering a brain drain -- when locally educated workers move elsewhere -- Dallas was bested only by San Francisco in terms of attracting tech talent."


It sounds like they're looking at net migration here (i.e. Dallas has way more tech workers moving in than homegrown tech workers moving out), which actually contains a weakness. Namely, that Dallas produces relatively few homegrown tech workers and already has to import workers to fill ranks, even before the arrival of Amazon. In contrast, places like Philly that produce and export a ton of tech workers have, in essence, a bunch of spare capacity that Amazon can take advantage of.

Agree that "coolness factor" when described that way is dumb. But the underlying issue is recruitment and the ability to appeal to high-level workers who have many options. Dallas' deficiency in that area is certainly lower than it was when Boeing said "thanks but no thanks," but it still certainly exists.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 05 Oct 2017 10:07

One answer to the proposal I'd like to see takes a different, perhaps more creative tack, would assemble existing blocks of available office space rather than mostly new construction.

Using St. Paul, Ackard and West End rail stations as a trail guide, this proposal would direct the first few years of building HQ2 into readied space, while D2 stations guide the rest. Something like that. City Building efficiency.

Should Dallas nap this one, The Cedars to Exposition would follow a similar neighborhood renovation as Uptown, on a similar timeline.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Matt777 » 05 Oct 2017 12:25

I would also like to see someone propose Downtown Dallas as a whole as an Amazon HQ2 location. There is plenty of available office space to start out with, plenty of parking lots to acquire and build to suit multiple buildings, light rail stations and streetcars, and existing parking garages and infrastructure. Already have tons of nearby restaurants and hotels too to serve the campus. It would certainly be that kick downtown needs to take it from good to fantastic.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 05 Oct 2017 13:10

Wherever Amazon goes, it'll certainly 'spillover' into all parts of the urban core (unless they go to the suburbs obviously). Re-using existing Downtown buildings would be great, but, if Amazon doesn't use them, someone else will grab them up pretty quickly.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tucy » 05 Oct 2017 13:27

Matt777 wrote:I would also like to see someone propose Downtown Dallas as a whole as an Amazon HQ2 location. There is plenty of available office space to start out with, plenty of parking lots to acquire and build to suit multiple buildings, light rail stations and streetcars, and existing parking garages and infrastructure. Already have tons of nearby restaurants and hotels too to serve the campus. It would certainly be that kick downtown needs to take it from good to fantastic.


Not just to start out with, there's actually enough vacant space downtown to get them through most of their 20-year growth plan.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Cbdallas » 05 Oct 2017 13:53

Imagine having the new AT&T campus and Amazon all in the same area of downtown. I like the Victory plan as it would build towards that edge of downtown and on the other side would be AT&T and it would all merge together.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby dd_dweller » 05 Oct 2017 14:34

Quick question, with all these other small cities within the DFW putting a bid, doesn't it mean that they too have meet the requirements of being a city with 1million people? Do they think (suburbs) they meet the criteria because they're part of the DFW? I just don't think the suburbs are as attractive for Amazon's HQ2 as downtown Dallas or Ft. Worth. The suburbs don't have much to offer that attracts millennials.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 05 Oct 2017 15:55

dd_dweller wrote:Quick question, with all these other small cities within the DFW putting a bid, doesn't it mean that they too have meet the requirements of being a city with 1million people? Do they think (suburbs) they meet the criteria because they're part of the DFW? I just don't think the suburbs are as attractive for Amazon's HQ2 as downtown Dallas or Ft. Worth. The suburbs don't have much to offer that attracts millennials.


Amazon's request for proposals outlined several core requirements, as well as optional preferences..

Metropolitan areas with a population of over 1 million

A stable and business-friendly environment

Within 30 miles (48 km) of a population center

Within 45 minutes to an international airport

Proximity to major highways and arterial roads 1–3 miles (2–5 km)

Access to mass transit routes

Up to 8 million square feet (740,000 m2) of office space for future expansion

Optional preferences include airports with direct flights to Seattle, New York, San Francisco, and Washington, D.C., urban locations, and proximity to major universities.

Some Suburbs meet the requirements. Richardson's proposal with UTD checks all the boxes.. transit could be better else where though.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Cord1936 » 09 Oct 2017 19:46

dd_dweller wrote:Quick question, with all these other small cities within the DFW putting a bid, doesn't it mean that they too have meet the requirements of being a city with 1million people? Do they think (suburbs) they meet the criteria because they're part of the DFW? I just don't think the suburbs are as attractive for Amazon's HQ2 as downtown Dallas or Ft. Worth. The suburbs don't have much to offer that attracts millennials.

^^^^^^^
Exactly. The suburban locations bidding on HQ2 don't fit the model Amazon is seeking, nor what the biggest potential employee base for HQ2 wants in a location either.

One way millennials are having a big impact on big companies
By Julia La Roche, Yahoo Finance, October 5, 2017

The millennial generation has a different attitude about where they’d like to work and live, and that’s having a significant impact on corporate America and subsequently commercial real estate.

“I think millennials are having a big impact, particularly for big companies, companies in general, as they think about where they locate and what kind of space they create,” said Jon Gray, Blackstone’s (BX) head of real estate.

Millennials don’t find the suburban corporate campus appealing anymore, and that’s forcing companies to relocate to attract talent.

“Today, millennials are saying, ‘No, I want to be in an urban environment. I want to be able to get a latte. I want to be able to ride my bike. I want to be able to work in a place that is much more open floor plan and sort of cooler feel.’ And so you’re seeing the companies react because they’re fighting for talent.”

GE (GE) moved its global headquarters from Fairfield, Connecticut to Boston’s Seaport district, while McDonald’s (MCD) is going from Oak Brook to downtown Chicago. Aetna (AET) also announced plans to relocate its headquarters from Hartford, Connecticut to New York’s trendy Chelsea neighborhood.

“They’re saying I need to go where the talent is, and that impact is really changing things. So, I think millennials are having a big impact.”
...

Full article: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/one-way-millennials-big-impact-big-companies-114257429.html

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Cord1936 » 11 Oct 2017 21:28

This has to be a blow to San Antonio's civic pride but kudos to them for being realistic.

Now only if the cadre of suburbs here in our region would wake up and smell the coffee and do the same thing! Frisco, McKinney, and even Ft. Worth do not meet the requirements for HQ2 ... the only REAL contender in North Texas is Dallas in its urban core or the immediate area near the core ... and maybe Dallas Midtown as an outlier. Among suburbs in the area Irving is clearly the strongest but central Dallas is preferred for various reasons.

San Antonio, Bexar County bow out of bid for Amazon's second headquarters
By Brian Chasnoff and Joshua Fechter, Houston Chronicle, Published 5:30 pm, Wednesday, October 11, 2017
...
The decision not to bid changes course from last month when a team consisting of the city, the county and the San Antonio Economic Development Foundation said it was "engaged and ready to pursue this opportunity," according to a statement released at the time by Erica Hurtak, spokeswoman for the foundation.

Hurtak said Wednesday that the city reviewed the bidding criteria and decided that it didn't have a chance at winning the bid.
...
The news came one day after Nirenberg said the city needs a major international airport with nonstop flights to make the city "a competitive, long-term air option."

But, the airport's lack of direct flights wouldn't have been as big a factor in Amazon's decision as city's workforce, said Bexar County Commissioner Tommy Calvert.

"The big one I think we need to overcome more than the airport is the pipeline of labor," Bexar County Commissioner Tommy Calvert said in an interview Wednesday. "Our labor force is really our Achilles' heel."

Article: http://www.chron.com/business/article/San-Antonio-Bexar-County-bow-out-of-bid-for-12271014.php

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby DPatel304 » 11 Oct 2017 22:06

Very respectable of them!

Do we have any sort of timeline as to when this decision will be made? I'm pretty I saw a mid-October deadline somewhere, but I can't recall where. That may have just been a deadline that DFW imposed on themselves, and not one that Amazon set.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby deweast1 » 11 Oct 2017 22:33

PROPOSAL REQUIREMENTS
Please provide an electronic copy and five (5) hard copies of your responses by October 19, 2017 to amazonhq2@amazon.com. Please send hard copies marked “confidential” between the dates of October 16th – 19th to:

Amazon
Office of Economic Development c/o Site Manager Golden
2121 7th Ave
Seattle, WA 98121

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Cord1936
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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby Cord1936 » 11 Oct 2017 22:46

As deweast1 indicated, the bids are due to Amazon no later than Oct. 19th.

I believe they will be making their decision in 2018, whether early, mid-year or late I do not know. Does anyone remember seeing a more definitive decision timeline from Amazon?

One of the San Antonio officials said they believe Amazon has already decided where they are going to locate HQ2 and the bidding "competition" is not to actually decide on the location but to extract maximum incentives through that process.

There is a side of me that believes that as well ... you know Amazon has to be very well aware of the pros and cons of all the "major contender cities" and which one they feel more ideally fits their strategic growth plan ... I would like to think that it is Dallas for all the reasons we've gesticulated since the competition was announced.

And it keeps coming back to me how Perot's Hillwood has been a strong and reliable MAJOR commercial development partner of Amazon's for some time (developing over 14,000,000 square feet in 17 projects with several in Texas) and I have to believe that in this "competition", as in life in general, relationships DO matter.

We shall see.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby joshua.dodd » 12 Oct 2017 04:16

Not to mention the new warehouses Amazon has been building all over the DFW metroplex. They've a new one in South Dallas literally a mile away from the 20 location. It's a 500,000 square foot facility. They also have warehouses in Coppell. They have several around DFW.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby eburress » 12 Oct 2017 08:48

Cord1936 wrote:One of the San Antonio officials said they believe Amazon has already decided where they are going to locate HQ2 and the bidding "competition" is not to actually decide on the location but to extract maximum incentives through that process.


Financial incentives were one of Amazon's requirements, so if this is true, it shouldn't be surprising - and if this does boil down to incentives as the distinguishing factor, the city and State better pony up! Texas paid Toyota $10K per employee to land that relocation, so hopefully they are prepared to write a check at least that large for this much larger relocation opportunity.

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Re: Could Dallas land Amazon HQ '2'?

Postby tamtagon » 12 Oct 2017 10:27

I heard a little of the Atlanta news last night about the state looking to help expand mass transit in Atlanta as a lure for HQ2. The 'more in a few minutes' lead said something about easing traffic for all in metro Atlanta through more rail, appealing to Amazon. Georgia has already handed out millions in tax rebates for movie and television production, and the result is phenomenal.

It's waaaaay past time TxDoT money expands rail in the cities, ridiculously overdue.


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