Harwood District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

R1070 · Post by **R1070** » 20 Jun 2022 13:33

I guess Bleu Ciel gave up on lighting the glass on top... what a shame.

Post by **undefinedprocess** » 20 Jun 2022 17:38

R1070 wrote:I guess Bleu Ciel gave up on lighting the glass on top... what a shame.

Wait, was it supposed to be lit and never ended up being lit, or was it previously lit at some point but went out, and never repaired?

R1070 · Post by **R1070** » 20 Jun 2022 21:33

undefinedprocess wrote:
R1070 wrote:I guess Bleu Ciel gave up on lighting the glass on top... what a shame.
Wait, was it supposed to be lit and never ended up being lit, or was it previously lit at some point but went out, and never repaired?

There used to be three rows of horizontal blue lights that ran along the glass. They started to malfunction and I guess just never got fixed.

Tucy · Post by **Tucy** » 13 Jul 2022 10:10

June 2022

Zero sold.

103 sold in 55 months. (1.87 per month) 55 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 7 years, 1 month.

itsjrd1964 · Post by **itsjrd1964** » 14 Jul 2022 05:45

Wow, none sold since the end of February.

I'm glad I don't work on commission....

Post by **Tnexster** » 14 Jul 2022 09:27

The condo market in Dallas continues to lag.

Tucy · Post by **Tucy** » 21 Aug 2022 12:14

July 2022

Zero sold.

103 sold in 56 months. (1.84 per month) 55 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 7 years, 2 months.

rono3849 · Post by **rono3849** » 21 Aug 2022 14:44

Is this tower considered a bust? One-third of the units have remained empty for quite awhile.

Post by **undefinedprocess** » 24 Aug 2022 14:58

I wonder if it'd make any sense to split up some of the units into 2-3 separate units to help move some...

Tucy · Post by **Tucy** » 16 Oct 2022 16:27

August 2022

Zero sold.

103 sold in 57 months. (1.81 per month) 55 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 7 years, 4 months.

Tucy · Post by **Tucy** » 16 Oct 2022 16:28

September 2022

Zero sold.

103 sold in 58 months. (1.78 per month) 55 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 7 years, 5 months

(Most recent sale was Feb 1)

itsjrd1964 · Post by **itsjrd1964** » 17 Oct 2022 04:43

Amazing. Only 4 sales (3 in January, 1 in February) in all of 2022.

Will they have to auction the rest off?

Tucy · Post by **Tucy** » 14 Nov 2022 09:27

October 2022

Zero sold.

103 sold in 59 months. (1.75 per month) 55 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 7 years, 7 months

(Most recent sale was Feb 1)

Dallas_Uptown · Post by **Dallas_Uptown** » 15 Nov 2022 12:24

Tucy wrote:October 2022

Zero sold.

103 sold in 59 months. (1.75 per month) 55 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 7 years, 7 months

(Most recent sale was Feb 1)

Wow...this is amazing.

I don't perceive the neighborhood as especially pedestrian-friendly, so maybe that's the issue?

rono3849 · Post by **rono3849** » 15 Nov 2022 13:06

Dallas_Uptown wrote:
Tucy wrote:October 2022

Zero sold.

103 sold in 59 months. (1.75 per month) 55 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 7 years, 7 months

(Most recent sale was Feb 1)
Wow...this is amazing.

I don't perceive the neighborhood as especially pedestrian-friendly, so maybe that's the issue?

I don't think the real estate environment is good right now for high rise condos.

Cbdallas · Post by **Cbdallas** » 15 Nov 2022 15:04

It does have a great city view looking back towards downtown but it is not really near or connected to anything and sits up on that island like piece of land. They seem to only build condo buildings in Dallas to appeal to a large sq. footage high dollar buyer so it is a limited pool of buyers.

IcedCowboyCoffee · Post by **IcedCowboyCoffee** » 15 Nov 2022 15:43

Cbdallas wrote:It does have a great city view looking back towards downtown but it is not really near or connected to anything and sits up on that island like piece of land. They seem to only build condo buildings in Dallas to appeal to a large sq. footage high dollar buyer so it is a limited pool of buyers.

And the pool is limited further still to people who, instead of wanting a spacious mansion somewhere in the suburbs, would prefer an urban setting that happens to lack many of the biggest appeals of urban living.
I don't understand what the market is for places like this. "City living" doesn't just mean waking up to a view of tall buildings in your window. I'm not surprised these buildings struggle.

Tucy · Post by **Tucy** » 02 Jan 2023 12:25

November 2022

Zero sold.

103 sold in 60 months. (1.72 per month) 55 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 7 years, 9 months

(Most recent sale was Feb 1)

itsjrd1964 · Post by **itsjrd1964** » 03 Jan 2023 06:17

Tucy wrote:November 2022

Zero sold.

103 sold in 60 months. (1.72 per month) 55 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 7 years, 9 months

(Most recent sale was Feb 1)

No sales in nearly a year. Definitely *not* a bright spot for Harwood's balance sheet.

Tucy · Post by **Tucy** » 13 Jan 2023 17:06

December 2022

Zero sold.

103 sold in 61 months. (1.69 per month) 55 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 7 years, 10 months

Most recent sale was Feb 1, 2022 -- 4 sold in Calendar year 2022 (0.33 per month)

rono3849 · Post by **rono3849** » 14 Jan 2023 17:09

This one appears to be a tough sell right now. Maybe once Goldman-Sachs opens their offices, some of those high paid executives will be looking at condos in the neighborhood.

Tucy · Post by **Tucy** » 05 Feb 2023 16:23

January 2023

Zero sold.

103 sold in 62 months. (1.66 per month) 55 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 8 years

They've gone an entire year without a sale. -- 4 sold in Calendar year 2022 (0.33 per month)

Post by **tamtagon** » 05 Feb 2023 21:03

Are they even trying?

Post by **Tnexster** » 06 Feb 2023 09:47

tamtagon wrote:Are they even trying?

If these condo's are so fantastic they should sell themselves but they don't. Seems like the market for high rise condos in Dallas is razor thin.

Apartments seem to always do well.

Srayldtx · Post by **Srayldtx** » 06 Feb 2023 14:50

Well apparently they are overpriced. There really are not that many high rise condos for sale. They go quickly if priced right.
Several Realtors and an owner(who has since gotten out) have all told me there are problems with the building that they are still trying to work out. I also was told the private pools on the top have leak issues and I don’t think there is water in them anymore. I think this is typical of newer buildings and may be best to buy one that has had a few years to work out the kinks.

Matt777 · Post by **Matt777** » 06 Feb 2023 20:12

There are tons of condos in Dallas that are older, some highrise, midrise, and lowrise, and there is low inventory of them for sale. They sell quickly when they come on the market.

Bleu Ciel and Museum Tower are both deeply flawed, overpriced projects and should not be a barometer for the condo market in Dallas. Unfortunately, they are being used as the barometer.

rono3849 · Post by **rono3849** » 06 Feb 2023 20:23

Matt777 wrote:There are tons of condos in Dallas that are older, some highrise, midrise, and lowrise, and there is low inventory of them for sale. They sell quickly when they come on the market.

Bleu Ciel and Museum Tower are both deeply flawed, overpriced projects and should not be a barometer for the condo market in Dallas. Unfortunately, they are being used as the barometer.

The Museum Tower sold out. Hall Arts Tower still has condos for sale, along with the Bleu Ciel, which suffers from its location and the noise of two major roads on each side of it.

interestedobserver · Post by **interestedobserver** » 07 Feb 2023 05:58

Since land is not an issue in Dallas and developers can build the “next best condo” nearby at any time, for me, personally, a new condo is a tough sell. While they look great to start they become quickly dated. So if you’re in the market, why would you select “Building X” that was the new hot thing three years ago when “Building Y” two blocks away is the new hot thing today?

As noted by others, Bleu Ciel’s location is lackluster at best.

With Museum Tower, an argument can be made that its location on Klyde Warren Park, with limited similar parcels to build another such condo tower, will help keep its appeal. But for the most part, Dallas is not like Manhattan, and here there is usually plenty of land for the “next best thing” that is move-in ready and doesn’t require a reno to have the current trending style.

Cbdallas · Post by **Cbdallas** » 07 Feb 2023 11:06

A lawyer friend always said don't ever buy a condo high rise when it opens wait at least 5 years to see how many problems and money will be asked from the 1st time owners to pay. This has played out in many buildings not only in Dallas but around the world with such examples of the leaning tower in San Francisco and the super talls in NYC. I love the idea of living up in the sky with a view. I still think the challenge with this building is its isolated location to the urban area. Great connection to Katy Trail but not much else.

Tucy · Post by **Tucy** » 07 Feb 2023 22:58

rono3849 wrote:
Matt777 wrote:There are tons of condos in Dallas that are older, some highrise, midrise, and lowrise, and there is low inventory of them for sale. They sell quickly when they come on the market.

Bleu Ciel and Museum Tower are both deeply flawed, overpriced projects and should not be a barometer for the condo market in Dallas. Unfortunately, they are being used as the barometer.
The Museum Tower sold out. Hall Arts Tower still has condos for sale, along with the Bleu Ciel, which suffers from its location and the noise of two major roads on each side of it.

Yeah, Museum Tower sold out. . . In 8 years and 3 months. These two will sell out too - eventually.

Semper454 · Post by **Semper454** » 09 Feb 2023 14:23

I think the location gripes about this tower might be overstated. Probably a dozen restaurants and bars within 5 or so blocks. Three coffee shops now with Magnolia, B+P, WRC. CVS on Field is walkable. Two or three dozen more restaurants if you're willing to walk 15-20 mins, and super easy access to anything Katy Trail.

The Blue Ciel block itself is a bit isolated, but that might even be a positive for some folks.

Matt777 · Post by **Matt777** » 12 Feb 2023 18:39

Semper454 wrote:I think the location gripes about this tower might be overstated. Probably a dozen restaurants and bars within 5 or so blocks. Three coffee shops now with Magnolia, B+P, WRC. CVS on Field is walkable. Two or three dozen more restaurants if you're willing to walk 15-20 mins, and super easy access to anything Katy Trail.

The Blue Ciel block itself is a bit isolated, but that might even be a positive for some folks.

In no way whatsoever is that CVS a pleasant walking experience from Bleu Ciel. That whole Harwood area is terrible when it comes to sidewalk and pedestrian experience. The main streets in that area function as high speed onramps and offramps to the tollway. The surrounding area does not feel like a premium residential area, and one entire side of the tower overlooks an old radio station building, then a large public housing development, then the mess that is I-35.

On top of that, I think it's clear the ultra minimalist Miami condo design does not sell well here. The Ritz has no problem selling their condo units when they hit the market, and some are outdated by now. Units in the Mansion, Mayfair, and the like do not linger on the market very long.

The newly proposed Rosewood condo tower is much more in line design-wise with what Dallas condo buyers want. More refined and luxurious look, more natural materials, less glass and metal.

Post by **tamtagon** » 12 Feb 2023 20:19

Katy trail needs to run through this neighborhood.

Semper454 · Post by **Semper454** » 12 Feb 2023 21:00

Matt777 wrote:
Semper454 wrote:I think the location gripes about this tower might be overstated. Probably a dozen restaurants and bars within 5 or so blocks. Three coffee shops now with Magnolia, B+P, WRC. CVS on Field is walkable. Two or three dozen more restaurants if you're willing to walk 15-20 mins, and super easy access to anything Katy Trail.

The Blue Ciel block itself is a bit isolated, but that might even be a positive for some folks.
In no way whatsoever is that CVS a pleasant walking experience from Bleu Ciel. That whole Harwood area is terrible when it comes to sidewalk and pedestrian experience. The main streets in that area function as high speed onramps and offramps to the tollway. The surrounding area does not feel like a premium residential area, and one entire side of the tower overlooks an old radio station building, then a large public housing development, then the mess that is I-35.

Walkability isn't great, but it really isn't that bad either. There *needs* to be some traffic speed control along McKinnon, and it's ridiculous the city's done nothing on this yet (I personally have turned in a report though the Services app several times). Coming from BC, you can walk down Harwood which is quiet and secluded during the day, but a little dark/sketchy the last block before BC at night. Once you reach Harwood 7/Dolce Riviera building, (a block and a half from BC), you're totally fine. Cars drive too fast, but sidewalks are mostly wide and well-lit. If you live in the neighborhood, a couple spots are worse than others, and you learn to avoid them.

No, isn't as perfectly urban and walkable as downtown or the heart of Uptown. But with that you get a little more seclusion, less vagrancy, and extremely easy car access to DNT/35. That's gonna be a positive for some folks.

Tucy · Post by **Tucy** » 23 Mar 2023 13:35

February 2023

Zero sold.

103 sold in 63 months. (1.63 per month) 55 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 8 years, 1 month

They've gone 13 months without a sale. -- 4 sold in Calendar year 2022 (0.33 per month)

(They already have some sales in March. I'm guessing there must have been a significant price adjustment.)

Tucy · Post by **Tucy** » 17 Apr 2023 09:16

March 2023

As mentioned last month, it looked like Bleu Ciel had a burst of sales. It turns out that 4 of those sales were merely the deeding of storage space within the building. But there was one sale of a residential unit.

One unit sold.

104 sold in 64 months. (1.625 per month) 54 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 8 years, 2 months

They've gone 13 months without a sale. -- 4 sold in Calendar year 2022 (0.33 per month). 1 in 3 months of 2023. (also 0.33 per month). At this pace, they won't sell out until late 2036, for a sell-out projection of 19 years.

Tucy · Post by **Tucy** » 17 Apr 2023 09:58

IT'S WORSE THAN WE THOUGHT

After noticing that there were 4 deeds last month for storage spaces, I thought I'd better check through the prior deeds. I found that 12 deeds I had previously counted as sold residential units were in fact just storage space or additional parking. The corrected numbers:

92 sold in 64 months (1.4375 per month) 66 remaining.

Sell-out projection (at that pace of sales): 9 years, 2 months.

If they continue at their recent pace of sales (0.33 per month), their sell-out projection is 21 years, 10 months.

Dallas_Uptown · Post by **Dallas_Uptown** » 02 May 2023 11:27

Tucy wrote:IT'S WORSE THAN WE THOUGHT

After noticing that there were 4 deeds last month for storage spaces, I thought I'd better check through the prior deeds. I found that 12 deeds I had previously counted as sold residential units were in fact just storage space or additional parking. The corrected numbers:

92 sold in 64 months (1.4375 per month) 66 remaining.

Sell-out projection (at that pace of sales): 9 years, 2 months.

If they continue at their recent pace of sales (0.33 per month), their sell-out projection is 21 years, 10 months.

Ooh! Maybe they should consider repurposing some of those units!

Tucy · Post by **Tucy** » 23 May 2023 11:48

April, 2023

1 unit sold. 93 sold in 65 months (1.431 per month) 65 remaining.

Sell-out projection (at that pace of sales): 9 years, 3 months.

This is their second sale this year (0.5 sales per month).

Tucy · Post by **Tucy** » 19 Jun 2023 12:52

May, 2023

1 unit sold. 94 sold in 66 months (1.431 per month) 64 remaining.

Sell-out projection (at that pace of sales): 9 years, 3 months.

This is their third sale this year (0.6 sales per month). At this rate their sellout period will extend to 14 years, 5 months.

Tucy · Post by **Tucy** » 07 Jul 2023 14:00

June, 2023

2 units sold. 96 sold in 67 months (1.433 per month) 62 remaining.

Sell-out projection (at that pace of sales): 9 years, 3 months.

This is their fourth and fiths sales this year (0.833 sales per month). At this rate their sellout period will extend to 11 years,10 months.

itsjrd1964 · Post by **itsjrd1964** » 09 Jul 2023 03:04

Tucy wrote:June, 2023

2 units sold. 96 sold in 67 months (1.433 per month) 62 remaining.

Sell-out projection (at that pace of sales): 9 years, 3 months.

This is their fourth and fiths sales this year (0.833 sales per month). At this rate their sellout period will extend to 11 years,10 months.
Top

Wow, they actually sold 2 in a month. Amazing.
I'm still glad I don't work in that leasing office.

Post by **Tnexster** » 10 Jul 2023 10:26

The pictures of these units look very nice and the prices seem high end but they also appear to sell faster than Hall...maybe. But in the world of high rise condo living is there no market for something at a lower price point? Or is that just not possible with costs?

Tucy · Post by **Tucy** » 31 Aug 2023 10:29

July, 2023

Zero units sold. 96 sold in 68 months (1.412 per month) 62 remaining.

Sell-out projection (at that pace of sales): 9 years, 4 months.

So far this calendar year, they are selling at about 1/2 the overall rate (0.714 per month. At this rate their sellout period will extend to 12 years,11 months.

Dallas_Uptown · Post by **Dallas_Uptown** » 31 Aug 2023 12:56

Tucy wrote:July, 2023

Zero units sold. 96 sold in 68 months (1.412 per month) 62 remaining.

Sell-out projection (at that pace of sales): 9 years, 4 months.

So far this calendar year, they are selling at about 1/2 the overall rate (0.714 per month. At this rate their sellout period will extend to 12 years,11 months.

Jeez, that's sad.

Cbdallas · Post by **Cbdallas** » 31 Aug 2023 13:13

Wish someone could explain again why Dallas with so much wealth just struggles as a condo tower city where others do so well even Houston and Austin do better.

Dallas_Uptown · Post by **Dallas_Uptown** » 31 Aug 2023 13:32

Cbdallas wrote:Wish someone could explain again why Dallas with so much wealth just struggles as a condo tower city where others do so well even Houston and Austin do better.

This property is on an island, surrounded by high-speed roads.

Thriving neighborhoods like Turtle Creek and the Knox area are walkable and have access to parks and downtown via the Katy Trail.

It's fine if you're home-bound and want a nice view, but otherwise...

Cbdallas · Post by **Cbdallas** » 31 Aug 2023 13:37

I am talking in general. It seems like it is an act of god to start a new condo tower and then when it is built it takes forever to sell out. I would love to know how Dallas condo towers actual sell out timelines compare to other large cities across the country. It feels like it much slower uptake of new units here compared to other cities.

I45Tex · Post by **I45Tex** » 31 Aug 2023 20:57

My impression is that the monthly hassle and costs of homeownership are higher in many of those other cities where condo HOA assessments and prices are more competitive as a result.

But additionally we don't have major snow and ice or hurricane storm surges for older adults to periodically deal with, since most large cities are either north of us or significantly closer to ocean than us. Being able to shelter in place upstairs is comparatively worth paying a premium for in that situation even if you'd enjoy a yard and light on all sides of you for the same price

Semper454 · Post by **Semper454** » 31 Aug 2023 23:01

I know there is a price point to make these kind of developments work, but if these units started around $700k instead of $1M or whatever, even if you lost 30% of square footage, I think no question, these would have sold like crazy. You look at the condos going up everywhere in so many not-so-great Old East Dallas neighborhoods for $650k, or this, smaller but high rise in a better neighborhood, it's something you'd consider.

We insist on building condo towers for older, richer demographics in neighborhoods where most folks are relatively young and not *that* rich.