West End 1.0

[DPatel304]

Whoops, you're exactly right.

This low quality picture from 2007 made me think there was a bit of a ramp, but it was just the quality of the pic:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7837401 ... 328!8i1664

[lakewoodhobo]

Maybe I missed this, but has DCCCD released any detailed plans for their Dallas Education and Innovation Hub? $535 million of the $1B bond package that just passed will be used for this, which DMN said "would include a business training center, which would mean completely redesigning the El Centro campus to accommodate it."

By "completely redesigning it", I'm assuming there would be some noticeable exterior changes including new construction.

[Tucy]

Maybe I missed this, but has DCCD released any detailed plans for their Dallas Education and Innovation Hub? $535 million of the $1B bond package that just passed will be used for this, which DMN said "would include a business training center, which would mean completely redesigning the El Centro campus to accommodate it."

By "completely redesigning it", I'm assuming there would be some noticeable exterior changes including new construction.

There was a story in the DMN last week that said they would be "replacing the existing El Centro College" and "A site for the new campus has not yet been decided"

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2019/05/03/schools-want-texans-approve-billions-dollars-spending-find-saturdays-ballot

[Tnexster]

If memory serves this new innovation and tech campus is something similar to what was proposed when Amazon was looking at Dallas, that education piece was deemed too important to abandon once Amazon chose another location. So, in essence...its a carrot.

[Kelley USA]

D Magazine has a pretty good article that should shed some light on the future DCCCD Campus. No designs as of yet and no location chosen as of yet. Probably should make this into a separate thread as it moves along...

https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... s/?ref=mpw

[cowboyeagle05]

Yeah sounds like they are very much on an early concept level. What is interesting is they want to do on campus housing but with a third party. Sounds like this new campus will not be anything like their current community college campus model. I could see them salvaging some of their current campus into student housing. The oldest historic parts along with the more recent addition facing Main Street could become a better lifestyle/fitness center with the Market Street side torn down for a brand new housing structure. DCCCD owns the Paramount building as well and that ugly office building at the corner of Market and Elm stuffed in between a few historic structures. They also have a lease at One Main Place. They could leverage some of their existing real estate in the West End but I surmise they really want to build some brand new campus that's not restricted by Historical district regulations.

[Matt777]

A flagship college for DCCCD would be an awesome thing for Downtown Dallas. There was a state bill proposal in 2017 to allow DCCCD to offer 4 year degrees. Collin College is about to start offering 4 year bachelor degrees. A full fledged college with student housing Downtown would offer a positive jolt to the area and some more life. El Centro already offers a good array of non-traditional programs like culinary and fashion, so adding some STEM and business to the mix would make a well rounded institution for those seeking an alternative to the bigger, expensive public universities.

[Jbarn]

Yeah sounds like they are very much on an early concept level. What is interesting is they want to do on campus housing but with a third party. Sounds like this new campus will not be anything like their current community college campus model. I could see them salvaging some of their current campus into student housing. The oldest historic parts along with the more recent addition facing Main Street could become a better lifestyle/fitness center with the Market Street side torn down for a brand new housing structure. DCCCD owns the Paramount building as well and that ugly office building at the corner of Market and Elm stuffed in between a few historic structures. They also have a lease at One Main Place. They could leverage some of their existing real estate in the West End but I surmise they really want to build some brand new campus that's not restricted by Historical district regulations.

I have concerns that they are going to build a new facility and abandon their current facility. It would be awful to have their current facility sit empty for years, as that is a big piece of property. It would zap all energy out of that part of downtown. It seems like they really should have provided more details as to their plans prior to putting this up for a vote. For instance, how do they know how much the new campus is going to cost if they don’t even know where it is going?

[lakewoodhobo]

For instance, how do they know how much the new campus is going to cost if they don’t even know where it is going?

This. I was surprised to read that they have an exact number allocated for this new campus but no decision on where it'll be located. Would not mind seeing 801 Main St completely redeveloped but if I had known that this bond program was for El Centro to leave downtown, I would've actively campaigned against it.

Maybe they have their eye on the Dallas Morning News building on Young, who knows.

[exelone31]

https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2019/06/the-neon-arches-are-returning-to-the-west-end/

Next Wednesday, the neon arches will return to the West End. Sort of.

They won’t be the Dallas Alley connector between the now-shuttered West End MarketPlace and the old Coca Cola Building. And they won’t burn neon; they’ll be filled with tiny LEDs and controlled via a computer program, which will allow them to reflect the colors of the Dallas Mavericks or the Stars or whatever design a young artist might come up with. They’ll be under Woodall Rodgers at Lamar, the new pass-through between the West End and booming Victory Park.

Great to hear that there is continued focus on the connection between Victory Park and the West End. There's a lot going on in each area, so putting a little effort into making it easier/safer to go back and forth is a win.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

I've always wished for skate park right there.

[eburress]

That's awesome...I'm glad they're coming back! It won't be the Dallas Alley of old, but it's still something.

[vman]

That's awesome...I'm glad they're coming back! It won't be the Dallas Alley of old, but it's still something.

And they're going to make a great backdrop for the Instagram fanatics.

[lakewoodhobo]

Also, I wonder what happened to the Planet Hollywood dragon. Wouldn't mind seeing him moved to this spot or maybe the giant empty plaza on the Victory side.

[exelone31]

Also, I wonder what happened to the Planet Hollywood dragon. Wouldn't mind seeing him moved to this spot or maybe the giant empty plaza on the Victory side.

I'll have to track down the article, but I think it was sold to someone out in Amarillo or something like that.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

This looks cheap. They look Like RGB lights for a gaming PC. I thought they would have at least put them plastic tubes to look like neon lights.

[Cbdallas]

This looks cheap. They look Like RGB lights for a gaming PC. I thought they would have at least put them plastic tubes to look like neon lights.

Same thoughts a simple plastic sleeve would have made it look like the old neon.

[uptown74]

This looks cheap. They look Like RGB lights for a gaming PC. I thought they would have at least put them plastic tubes to look like neon lights.

Same thoughts a simple plastic sleeve would have made it look like the old neon.

and it looks like they only lit up every other arch

[quixomniac]

LED strips are super cheap, literally $20 on amazon. Why not do the whole thing including the Dallas Alley part?
Is it that hard to wire up some LED, strap them to a pole, maintain them ocassionally and put on some plastic?
A plastic sleeve would have done wonders. If someone started a fundraising campaign to do the whole thing, im sure there would be plenty of interest.

[Cbdallas]

Imagine how great it would look with each one lit and extend it back into the West End buildings with the sleeves over the neon.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

Imagine how great it would look with each one lit and extend it back into the West End buildings with the sleeves over the neon.

So the arches that were in the alley were actually removed during the renovation

[cowboyeagle05]

Also, I don't believe every arch was lit in the original version. I believe the part under the highway was always every other arch. The other problem is that the lights originally actually lit up the ground cause they were brighter I believe. These are only on the part of the arch facing towards your eyes but not the ground. Definitely a let down with all the publicity they stirred up. They could have done this and mentioned it in a newsletter.


These are the lights in the actual alley where the arches were removed and more traditional hanging pendant lights were added by Granite Properties. I think the highway section was every other arch though and I can not find an image of that section online anymore. Notice the neon is on the bottom of the arches facing the ground meaning more light is pointed towards the sidewalk.

neon-lighted-archway-in-an-alley-in-west-end-historical-district-bank-D6YJRF.jpg

[lakewoodhobo]

I'm not a fan of these trivial rebranding efforts like South Victory, but could there be a benefit to carving out a section here to separate Historic West End from the tech-centric new West End? It would include the new Holocaust Museum, Factory 603, the Luminary, West End Square and just about everything north of Ross, perhaps even buildings north of Woodall Rodgers like the Brewery and House of Blues. Part of the purpose would be to separate it from the "bad elements" that people associate with DART, El Centro and the county-owned buildings.

Anyway, curious to know how something like that would be received.

Screen Shot 2019-07-16 at 11.19.47 AM.jpg

[mdg109]

A lot of active construction going. Took these at around 8pm last night. Good to see the old Palm Restaurant getting renovated. Also, anybody know what's going on with 1701 Market building?

[lakewoodhobo]

A lot of active construction going. Took these at around 8pm last night. Good to see the old Palm Restaurant getting renovated. Also, anybody know what's going on with 1701 Market building?

Thanks for the updates! I noticed work in the old Palm space the other day and remember feeling glad that we take this for granted now, i.e., it's not newsworthy that someone wants that space.

On the other hand it still baffles me that the old Landry's restaurant, with that great little waterfall courtyard, continues to sit empty.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

Brewery Building Stucco has been removed on all but one side. The brick looks rough..

[dallaz]

Brewery Building Stucco has been removed on all but one side. The brick looks rough..

What’s being done to the building? Was there a project announced that I missed?

[Tivo_Kenevil]

Brewery Building Stucco has been removed on all but one side. The brick looks rough..

What’s being done to the building? Was there a project announced that I missed?

It's an older project. It's being redeveloped. There was a residential component to the project. But I'm not sure it's still on. Last I heard they wanted to renovate the building and bring the Starck club back.

[willyk]

They tore down the part of the building that held the Stark Club. It appeared to be a later addition to the original structure.

The building is wedged between Woodall and Continental. They need to do something to get a walking connection to VP and the West End.

[exelone31]

Wasn't the Starck Club downstairs through those giant circular doors?

[dallaz]

Brewery Building Stucco has been removed on all but one side. The brick looks rough..

What’s being done to the building? Was there a project announced that I missed?

It's an older project. It's being redeveloped. There was a residential component to the project. But I'm not sure it's still on. Last I heard they wanted to renovate the building and bring the Starck club back.

Well, that sucks. Hopefully, the residential portion is still on...maybe in the future

[willyk]

Seems like a good time for residential here—lots of new restaurant and retail in VP, Harwood and the WE; Tom Thumb and CVS in the neighborhood.

[tamtagon]

^Totally.

When the CBD had 250 residents and the city started working to rebuild the downtown, 10,000 residents was the threshold of a sustainable marketplace. Now we should be looking at 25,000 as the threshold of a thriving marketplace and 50,000 CBD residents is a marketplace that starts trends.

[exelone31]

Anybody happen to know a ballpark on the number of residents that are in Victory Park/West End currently? I know the Brewery Building is kind of in the middle of that area, just curious for context.

[cowboyeagle05]

I think the residential component was more a part of the Amazon proposal. They were gonna have office space in the brewery building with a new section built on top of the historic structure with a parking garage with a residential tower on what is the parking lot. Now that Amazon didn't choose Dallas they are going back to a planned office conversion of the existing building with a health club to replace the Starck Club. The nightclub is not coming back in any form.

[dch526]

Anybody happen to know a ballpark on the number of residents that are in Victory Park/West End currently? I know the Brewery Building is kind of in the middle of that area, just curious for context.

You've got about 1200-1300 in the West End and 6,000-6,200 in VP. So, probably somewhere between 7,000-7,500

[mdg109]

Looks like the former Palm restaurant will become a Museum of Illusions starting in November. I'm not sure if it's long-term, but it looks to be similar in concept to the Sweet Tooth hotel. Hopefully this will generate more activity in the West End.

[cowboyeagle05]

https://www.dmagazine.com/arts-entertai ... illusions/

The Museum of Illusions, a tourist attraction with 15 locations across the world, announced that it will open its first Texas museum in Downtown Dallas this September. Known for amusing “reverse rooms” and vortex tunnels, the museum is filled with optical illusions and tricks of math, science and psychology. The interactive concept will make a permanent home in the West End district at 701 Ross Ave. This will be the third location in the U.S. following openings in New York and Kansas City.

[R1070]

I always thought it would be a good business move if Ripley’s in Grand Prairie moved near the downtown aquarium. So many tourists and kids around there.

[tamtagon]

This belongs just outside fair park. Ripley's, too.

[cowboyeagle05]

It's not big enough of an attraction to exist outside of Fair Park and to be honest there is already one at the entrance of Fair Park of similar nature. We will see long term how these last they are trendy but I don't have confidence they will be a forever thing.

[tamtagon]

^not now, I agree for sure, but as the city grows and Fair Park is managed as a year round entertainment park, the neighborhoods will finally evolve and support novelty destinations like an illusion museum, believe it or not, wax museum and other tourist stuff.

I think West end will be more residential.

[willyk]

The Grassy Knoll, Sixth Floor, Holocaust Museum, Old Red and Aquarium are here, and it’s catty-corner from the Perot...the West End is already a destination for families and tourists. It’s a logical site for the Museum of Illusions.

Millennials and Urban Sophisticates have plenty of other playgrounds. There is no harm in letting one corner of downtown appeal to mainstream Americans.

[DPatel304]

Spaghetti Warehouse closes longtime location in West End Dallas
http://dallas.culturemap.com/news/resta ... nd-closed/

Honestly haven't been here in a long time so I can't speak on the quality of the food here, but it's been a part of the West End for so long that I'm sad to see it go. I'm surprised they were able to do last during the down times, but now that Downtown is finally hitting it's stride they close up shop.

Perhaps now there are actually quite a few decent alternatives in Downtown and Spaghetti Warehouse has been struggling as a result of that?

[muncien]

For the life of me, I have never understood why Ripley's and the Wax Museum are where they are. It has totally boggled me ever since moving here many years ago. While I agree that the West End is a very logical place for them to be, and I also like it being a bit of a tourist area of downtown, I am kinda glad they aren't there. There is something about visiting a city and stumbling upon the street with Ripley's that makes me question my planning decisions... haha.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

Spaghetti Warehouse closes longtime location in West End Dallas
http://dallas.culturemap.com/news/resta ... nd-closed/

Honestly haven't been here in a long time so I can't speak on the quality of the food here, but it's been a part of the West End for so long that I'm sad to see it go. I'm surprised they were able to do last during the down times, but now that Downtown is finally hitting it's stride they close up shop.

Perhaps now there are actually quite a few decent alternatives in Downtown and Spaghetti Warehouse has been struggling as a result of that?

They were geared to tourist more than the 9-5 or neighborhood crowd. That was their problem. Not to mention there's just so much more competition now.

[vman]

there's just so much more competition now.

Also it was dark, cave-like, rundown and always smelled bad in there.

[Tnexster]

The suburban location in Arlington will remain open for anybody craving that lasagna they are so famous for. I have to admit to never being in there and only being inside Spaghetti Warehouse one time years ago in Toronto.

[lakewoodhobo]

I wonder if the streetcar inside there will be donated to MATA or otherwise put to some use downtown. Would be a shame to see it destroyed.

EDIT: Looks like it's up for grabs along with everything else inside: http://dallas.culturemap.com/news/city- ... e-auction/

[willyk]

Would be great if someone redeveloped the building to take advantage of the new park.