Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Dallas Area Rapid Transit

User avatar
The_Overdog
Posts: 444
Joined: 21 Oct 2016 14:55

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby The_Overdog » 20 Mar 2019 15:15

Platform extensions will add to DART construction mess - I guess the Galatyn and downtown Plano stations will be among the first to be extended.

User avatar
northsouth
Posts: 51
Joined: 26 Oct 2016 18:59

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby northsouth » 20 Mar 2019 20:15

Well the last time wasn't a full replacement, just a few spots that needed it most. The rest is being replaced this time, and what was replaced in the past is staying. It's why there's that gap in the tracks at West End that makes a racket every time a train runs over it, it's a joint between some of the rails that were replaced and those that weren't.

I remember when they did those replacements a few years ago, they said they had originally been counting of D2 happening on schedule (originally a very optimistic 2014) in order to take the load off the tracks, since they only anticipated a few years of running 4 lines worth of trains on them. Also with D2, there would be a route to maintain service through downtown while the old tracks were fixed. But because D2 was delayed, and rail traffic levels would stay at 4 lines for the foreseeable future, they needed to take care of the most worn out sections before they became more of a problem (keep in mind these tracks have seen heavy use every day since 1996). Now the time and money has come to take care of the rest of downtown, which has continued to see wear and tear since the first round of replacements. Additionally, they're taking advantage of the rebuild to add a crossover halfway through to allow trains to pass (if possible) when there's a blockage instead of just shutting down downtown.

It's not unheard of for light rail systems of DART's age or older to deal with rail replacement needs. I know Portland's system recently had some shutdowns to replace parts of their downtown trackage. And at least we're not Los Angeles, where the southern half of their Blue Line has been shut down from January to May for a rail replacement/wire replacement/general refurbishment, and the northern half will do the same from May to July. It's a normal part of running a railway of any sort, and it's better to take care of it before it becomes an even bigger issue.

itsjrd1964
Posts: 673
Joined: 28 Jul 2018 07:38

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby itsjrd1964 » 20 Mar 2019 20:58

It would be good if they would work on the street crossings there, especially Pearl, Griffin, and Lamar. They are so rough.

User avatar
Hannibal Lecter
Posts: 464
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 19:57

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 20 Mar 2019 22:18

Griffin is a disaster. I don't know which is more inexcusable -- that DART thinks it's acceptable, or that the city let's then get away with it.

DPatel304
Posts: 1622
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 18:49
Location: Turtle Creek

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby DPatel304 » 28 Mar 2019 16:01

This was posted on the DART Facebook page today. Probably of no significance, but it's a rendering of a completely Trinity River park along with some development along the Riverfront blvd:
https://www.facebook.com/DARTDallas/vid ... 743278415/

User avatar
IntegratedCircuit
Posts: 1
Joined: 20 Apr 2019 11:56

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby IntegratedCircuit » 20 Apr 2019 12:02

Just missed my train at Galatyn, so wandered around to see if there was any sign of progress since they supposedly started work on platform extensions a couple weeks ago. All I saw were barricades at the south end of the platform and a “2” and “3” in orange spray paint on the northbound track, presumably where the new stop marks will be once extensions are done.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

itsjrd1964
Posts: 673
Joined: 28 Jul 2018 07:38

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby itsjrd1964 » 03 Jun 2019 13:51

I wonder, how much longer it will be before we see new light rail cars replacing the ones that mostly date to 1996. DART has recently approached Stadler about new FLIRT cars for the upcoming Silver Line.

User avatar
longhorn
Posts: 23
Joined: 13 Jul 2017 14:21

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby longhorn » 03 Jun 2019 15:55

https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/co ... -contract/

New FlIRTS trains like the ones FTW has are on the way for Cotton Belt.

User avatar
Hannibal Lecter
Posts: 464
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 19:57

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 03 Jun 2019 16:51

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas/ ... mous-buses

In Dallas, for example, DART ridership has decreased every year for the past five years — even though the Dallas-Fort Worth area is one of the fastest-growing regions in the U.S. From 2013 to 2018, average weekday ridership on light rail and buses dropped about 13 percent to 194,495.

User avatar
Jbarn
Posts: 101
Joined: 05 Nov 2016 18:58

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby Jbarn » 04 Jun 2019 08:05

Hannibal Lecter wrote:https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas/2019/06/03/dart-hired-uber-drive-around-riders-now-considering-autonomous-buses

In Dallas, for example, DART ridership has decreased every year for the past five years — even though the Dallas-Fort Worth area is one of the fastest-growing regions in the U.S. From 2013 to 2018, average weekday ridership on light rail and buses dropped about 13 percent to 194,495.


I wonder how that 10 year bus route overhaul is coming along. DART always seems to be more concerned about headlines and that next big project rather than running an effective, usable, customer-centric agency. The whole DART board needs to be replaced with people that actually use the system.

itsjrd1964
Posts: 673
Joined: 28 Jul 2018 07:38

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby itsjrd1964 » 05 Jun 2019 02:21

Jbarn wrote:
Hannibal Lecter wrote:https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas/2019/06/03/dart-hired-uber-drive-around-riders-now-considering-autonomous-buses

In Dallas, for example, DART ridership has decreased every year for the past five years — even though the Dallas-Fort Worth area is one of the fastest-growing regions in the U.S. From 2013 to 2018, average weekday ridership on light rail and buses dropped about 13 percent to 194,495.


I wonder how that 10 year bus route overhaul is coming along. DART always seems to be more concerned about headlines and that next big project rather than running an effective, usable, customer-centric agency. The whole DART board needs to be replaced with people that actually use the system.


This linkie was posted here at the forum in mid-May about the bus "overhaul", but mainly to introduce the arrival of 41 new buses to the fleet. They are reportedly to be used in certain 'core routes' that DART plans to name in August when schedule/route adjustments take place.

https://www.dart.org/news/news.asp?ID=1392

User avatar
Redblock
Posts: 139
Joined: 24 Nov 2016 11:15

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby Redblock » 05 Jun 2019 10:20

Here is the link to the changes coming to the bus routes on August 12.

https://www.dart.org/incs/meetingsincs/ ... #establish

Note: Core Frequent Route Network is DARTspeak for running buses on near light rail frequencies and service hours.

User avatar
Jbarn
Posts: 101
Joined: 05 Nov 2016 18:58

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby Jbarn » 06 Jun 2019 13:02

I guess I was under the impression that DART would be doing a total reconfiguring of its entire bus route, similar to what Houston did a few years back, especially given that DART needed 10 years to complete it. DART is too focused on getting national press. They need to redirect their energy to getting the most folks to the most places as quickly and efficiently as possible.

User avatar
Tucy
Posts: 584
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 12:50

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby Tucy » 06 Jun 2019 20:39

Speaking of ridership, here are the numbers for average weekday ridership at the DFW station:

FY 2014: 922
FY 2015: 898
FY 2016: 968
FY 2017: 976
FY 2018: 929

DFW Airport passenger traffic in roughly that time period increased 14.35%. The population of the Dallas side of the metroplex increased by 8.72%. DART ridership at the DFW Airport station increased by 0.76% (from an already low number). What were those ridership projections again?

User avatar
ContriveDallasite
Posts: 273
Joined: 27 Oct 2016 03:34
Location: München

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby ContriveDallasite » 06 Jun 2019 22:59

I would also be interested in a further passenger breakdown between travellers and people travelling to the airport for work.

User avatar
Jbarn
Posts: 101
Joined: 05 Nov 2016 18:58

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby Jbarn » 07 Jun 2019 07:12

I ride the train regularly from the Bachman station to DFW airport and then back again. I have been doing it for the last few years and have done it at all different times of the day, morning, evening, rush-hour, etc... I can tell you that those numbers, although pitiful, are probably exaggerated. I am usually one of about 5-10 people on the train, and typically half of those are homeless people camped out in the back. I have not once been asked for my ticket. And have seen maybe one officer on the train ever.

User avatar
Cbdallas
Posts: 386
Joined: 29 Nov 2016 16:42

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby Cbdallas » 07 Jun 2019 12:05

Putting ticket takers on every train while costly would make the train feel more inviting to paying customers while removing those that don't pay or use the train as a homeless shelter which drives more paying riders away from using the train. If I could go back in time I would have insisted they gate the entire system creating a barrier to non paying riders and the homeless.

User avatar
mdg109
Posts: 238
Joined: 31 Oct 2016 17:10

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby mdg109 » 07 Jun 2019 12:45

I rode the train on a Sunday evening from Mockingbird Station to Galatyn Park Station in Richardson. The ride itself was really efficient, but everything else about my trip discourages even a supporter like me from taking Dart. Number 1, the ticket kiosks were out of order. Ended up downloading the app on the spot to get my ticket.Once at the platform, (I had forgotten about the Dart rail construction going on) I had to figure out that my train going north was actually on the southbound platform. Although there were two Dart officials on the train, no one ever asked for a ticket. There were homeless people getting on and off, which I wouldn't mind if more people were on the train. I agree with Cbdallas, having regular ticket takers would make it feel more secure and inviting.

User avatar
Jbarn
Posts: 101
Joined: 05 Nov 2016 18:58

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby Jbarn » 08 Jun 2019 07:32

Cbdallas wrote:Putting ticket takers on every train while costly would make the train feel more inviting to paying customers while removing those that don't pay or use the train as a homeless shelter which drives more paying riders away from using the train. If I could go back in time I would have insisted they gate the entire system creating a barrier to non paying riders and the homeless.


Actually, forgot to say that last time I rode, every single ticket machine at Bachman station and DFW stations were either out of order or accepted only credit cards, only coins, etc... and this is not uncommon. I have notified the rare employee that I see at the stations but they don’t seem to really care. DART needs turnstiles at every station, working equipment, officers at every station that actually do their job instead of sitting in their cars or on their phones, some sort of presence on the trains, etc.... if I were a single female, a family, or even a business person, riding the train to and fro DFW airport, there would have been many times that I have ridden the train that would have scared me from ever doing it again. The problem I think is due to the fact that the folks that run DART more than likely never ever use the system.

User avatar
Parker Road
Posts: 3
Joined: 01 Jun 2019 18:19
Location: Plano

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby Parker Road » 08 Jun 2019 09:02

The problem I think is due to the fact that the folks that run DART more than likely never ever use the system.

I can't be the only person that finds it a bit ridiculous that DART's headquarters downtown, right next to akard station, has a private underground parking garage (https://maps.app.goo.gl/EtZWogQ5mySt5quv5). I get it's likely there due to parking minimums; but not only is the irony palpable, it also serves as encouragement for transit officials to neglect the system they oversee.

User avatar
electricron
Posts: 251
Joined: 29 Oct 2016 11:07

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby electricron » 08 Jun 2019 09:09

Parker Road wrote:I can't be the only person that finds it a bit ridiculous that DART's headquarters downtown, right next to akard station, has a private underground parking garage (https://maps.app.goo.gl/EtZWogQ5mySt5quv5). I get it's likely there due to parking minimums; but not only is the irony palpable, it also serves as encouragement for transit officials to neglect the system they oversee.

Considering the history of the building, I do not think it is ridiculous. I can not imagine a huge department store located in downtown Dallas existing without parking.

User avatar
Parker Road
Posts: 3
Joined: 01 Jun 2019 18:19
Location: Plano

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby Parker Road » 08 Jun 2019 09:28

electricron wrote:
Parker Road wrote:I can't be the only person that finds it a bit ridiculous that DART's headquarters downtown, right next to akard station, has a private underground parking garage (https://maps.app.goo.gl/EtZWogQ5mySt5quv5). I get it's likely there due to parking minimums; but not only is the irony palpable, it also serves as encouragement for transit officials to neglect the system they oversee.

Considering the history of the building, I do not think it is ridiculous. I can not imagine a huge department store located in downtown Dallas existing without parking.

Ah, true, I completely neglected to think about that aspect (former tenants), good point. Still is weird to me though, but I suppose it makes more sense than opening it to the public. Maybe in the far future, once ground level parking is less prevalent downtown, DART could make a little bit of extra revenue by charging high rates for the public to park there. That way employees won't be encouraged to drive.

lakewoodhobo
Posts: 1018
Joined: 20 Oct 2016 13:49
Location: Elmwood, Oak Cliff

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby lakewoodhobo » 01 Jul 2019 14:33

Parker Road wrote:Ah, true, I completely neglected to think about that aspect (former tenants), good point. Still is weird to me though, but I suppose it makes more sense than opening it to the public. Maybe in the far future, once ground level parking is less prevalent downtown, DART could make a little bit of extra revenue by charging high rates for the public to park there. That way employees won't be encouraged to drive.


Depending on what happens with 1401 Elm, DART may revisit the idea of selling 1401 Pacific and then the question becomes where to move. They could redevelop the East Transfer Center and build themselves a decent office tower there, but they would no longer be adjacent to the transit mall.

However, if D2 does get built then 1401 Pacific would only be on the Red and Blue lines. This location on the East Transfer Center would be a short walk from a D2 or D1 station.

User avatar
quixomniac
Posts: 59
Joined: 21 Oct 2016 21:24

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby quixomniac » 01 Jul 2019 17:52

lakewoodhobo wrote:
Parker Road wrote:Ah, true, I completely neglected to think about that aspect (former tenants), good point. Still is weird to me though, but I suppose it makes more sense than opening it to the public. Maybe in the far future, once ground level parking is less prevalent downtown, DART could make a little bit of extra revenue by charging high rates for the public to park there. That way employees won't be encouraged to drive.


Depending on what happens with 1401 Elm, DART may revisit the idea of selling 1401 Pacific and then the question becomes where to move. They could redevelop the East Transfer Center and build themselves a decent office tower there, but they would no longer be adjacent to the transit mall.

However, if D2 does get built then 1401 Pacific would only be on the Red and Blue lines. This location on the East Transfer Center would be a short walk from a D2 or D1 station.


That would be a dream come true!.
It was previously a Sanger Harris, That they removed the mural should be a crime honestly
The synergy between those two would be amazing. Given the columns and hopefully someone with a good eye can redevelop it into something that actually takes advantage of the placement.
Perhaps Dart can move elsewhere , like West end (apparently El Centro might move?)

itsjrd1964
Posts: 673
Joined: 28 Jul 2018 07:38

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby itsjrd1964 » 05 Aug 2019 09:09

Looks like this sign is an admittance that the platform "improvements" are taking longer than originally advertised.

20190805_091123.jpg


The original banner signs that say August are still displayed, but I saw the pictured sign in the last week at the Walnut Hill Red/Orange line station. The construction there has both stairwells and the elevator on the north end of the platform closed. Not good for access unless you want to cross Walnut Hill between the bus area and the remaining access to the platform. Whatever they're doing there, it doesn't look like it will result in a longer platform. The only other work I see, the downtown Plano station, has some work going on at the north end of the platform, but it doesn't look like enough work to do a full-train-car-length platform extension. Hopefully we will eventually see tangible results after all the work is done.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
TNWE
Posts: 182
Joined: 03 May 2017 09:42

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby TNWE » 05 Aug 2019 11:41

itsjrd1964 wrote:Looks like this sign is an admittance that the platform "improvements" are taking longer than originally advertised.

20190805_091123.jpg

The original banner signs that say August are still displayed, but I saw the pictured sign in the last week at the Walnut Hill Red/Orange line station. The construction there has both stairwells and the elevator on the north end of the platform closed. Not good for access unless you want to cross Walnut Hill between the bus area and the remaining access to the platform. Whatever they're doing there, it doesn't look like it will result in a longer platform. The only other work I see, the downtown Plano station, has some work going on at the north end of the platform, but it doesn't look like enough work to do a full-train-car-length platform extension. Hopefully we will eventually see tangible results after all the work is done.


Someone mentioned upthread that the elevated stations were already built to be long enough, so the only changes are adjusting the points where the trains stop (so moving signals and track sensors) and re-aligning the high spots to match the doors (or raising the whole platform to match the train sill heights like they did downtown, I'm not sure what they have planned)

User avatar
Cbdallas
Posts: 386
Joined: 29 Nov 2016 16:42

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby Cbdallas » 20 Aug 2019 13:40

Would love to know of the other large cities in the US that use open pay open access like DART or those that use a closed pay to enter system. Pros and Cons of both.

User avatar
exelone31
Posts: 496
Joined: 31 Oct 2016 11:35

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby exelone31 » 20 Aug 2019 15:36

Cbdallas wrote:Would love to know of the other large cities in the US that use open pay open access like DART or those that use a closed pay to enter system. Pros and Cons of both.


Of the cities I've been to, I believe only Seattle is the one I have seen open pay open access.

Closed pay cities:
NYC
Chicago
SF/Bay Area
Washington DC
Vancouver

User avatar
muncien
Posts: 974
Joined: 25 Oct 2016 08:46
Location: Cypress Waters

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby muncien » 20 Aug 2019 15:50

exelone31 wrote:
Cbdallas wrote:Would love to know of the other large cities in the US that use open pay open access like DART or those that use a closed pay to enter system. Pros and Cons of both.


Of the cities I've been to, I believe only Seattle is the one I have seen open pay open access.

Closed pay cities:
NYC
Chicago
SF/Bay Area
Washington DC
Vancouver



Isn't LA's Metro still open? I know they were for the longest time.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

User avatar
Cbdallas
Posts: 386
Joined: 29 Nov 2016 16:42

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby Cbdallas » 20 Aug 2019 16:08

Of the other open systems I wonder how they enforce fare payment and freeloaders on their systems. Seems like if we increased our policing DART and enforced and removed people then the perception of safety and cleanliness would go up and increase ridership. I personally am not turned off or scared but I hear from many that won't use it because that is the perception.

User avatar
Tucy
Posts: 584
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 12:50

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby Tucy » 21 Aug 2019 08:37

Cbdallas wrote:Would love to know of the other large cities in the US that use open pay open access like DART or those that use a closed pay to enter system. Pros and Cons of both.


I think most light rail systems are open pay open access.

User avatar
muncien
Posts: 974
Joined: 25 Oct 2016 08:46
Location: Cypress Waters

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby muncien » 21 Aug 2019 09:07

Cbdallas wrote:Of the other open systems I wonder how they enforce fare payment and freeloaders on their systems. Seems like if we increased our policing DART and enforced and removed people then the perception of safety and cleanliness would go up and increase ridership. I personally am not turned off or scared but I hear from many that won't use it because that is the perception.


Many years back when I used to use LA's Metro several days a week, this exact topic was discussed constantly, with pretty much the exact same results (talk, no action).
Over time though, enforcement actually diminished and it seemed as if the city didn't support strict enforcement or fare citations. It got to the point where someone could simply get onto a bus and refuse to pay and there wasn't much the driver could do about it. It really just fit the mold of the lawlessness of the LA area in general (one of the main reasons I left).
But in the case of LA's Metro, they have very high ridership with many busses bursting at the seems during rush hour... So, from a finanacial perspective, if even only 80% of riders were paying, they were still making decent $ from fares. Perhaps that is why they weren't so concerned.
I know there was talk to put gates in at the underground stations. That's not absolute closed system by any means, but it would help a little, I suppose. Not sure if they ever implemented that, though...
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

User avatar
The_Overdog
Posts: 444
Joined: 21 Oct 2016 14:55

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby The_Overdog » 21 Aug 2019 13:08

Would love to know of the other large cities in the US that use open pay open access like DART or those that use a closed pay to enter system.

The pros of an open access system like DART are that the security gates and walls plus maintenance are dramatically more expensive than a few lowly paid security guards checking tickets on the most crowded trains.

The other day I rode to downtown - admittedly it was at rush hour, but I purchased a ticket and I guess it fell out of my pocket, but I was literally the only one in a crowded traincar who didn't have a ticket to show. I showed my online purchase via my bank and still got a stern warning but no ticket. I'm saying that the current enforcement is enough were I'd bet that greater than 80% of people at rush hour have tickets.

Maybe there are scofflaws outside of rush hour, but again the cost of enforcement is fairly high vs the cost of the ticket - ie: some guy getting paid $20-30k a year to check $5 tickets. That's 11 people per day that each guard has to catch.

User avatar
muncien
Posts: 974
Joined: 25 Oct 2016 08:46
Location: Cypress Waters

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby muncien » 23 Aug 2019 08:50

^^^
Not to mention the aesthetics of a closed system... Gates and turnstyles are UUUUUGGGLY. I would like to see a better use of technology to manage this problem. Maybe we are already on our way to this, but I'm talking scanners at the doors that are required to scan your ticket with motion sensors. If it detects noticiable passengers without scans, enforcement officers know which cars to target. This will allow a much more efficient means of enforcement as opposed to trying to check every rider on every train.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

itsjrd1964
Posts: 673
Joined: 28 Jul 2018 07:38

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby itsjrd1964 » 22 Sep 2019 09:30

I don't know when this was done or decided, but on-board announcements and station signage for Mockingbird Station have changed to "SMU/Mockingbird Station".
(I don't think anything with the mixed-use development upstairs has been changed, just the DART portion.)

User avatar
jeffbrown2002
Posts: 34
Joined: 03 Nov 2016 01:28

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby jeffbrown2002 » 11 Nov 2019 09:59

Found this little gem within the meeting presentations on the DART website, specifically the "2045 Transit System Plan"
planningitem3_12nov19_Page_13.png

This is the first time I've seen conceptual renderings of the elusive Knox/Henderson Station. Hopefully they seriously consider and ultimately decide to finally build it. Would be a great addition to this densely populated and growing area all these years later.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Tivo_Kenevil
Posts: 1395
Joined: 20 Oct 2016 12:24

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 11 Nov 2019 11:12

Wow, hope there's more to this than just a dream.

User avatar
Cbdallas
Posts: 386
Joined: 29 Nov 2016 16:42

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby Cbdallas » 11 Nov 2019 14:06

In the book of historically bad decisions the one made to not build this out on the original Red Line is certainly one of them.

cowboyeagle05
Posts: 1953
Joined: 21 Oct 2016 08:45
Location: Dallas

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 14 Nov 2019 13:10

150+ for the cost, when area property owners aren't interested in contributing, is a steep hill to climb.

LongonBigD
Posts: 234
Joined: 25 Oct 2016 13:40
Location: Knox District

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby LongonBigD » 14 Nov 2019 15:53

cowboyeagle05 wrote:150+ for the cost, when area property owners aren't interested in contributing, is a steep hill to climb.


Indeed. What would be required would be a major property owner in the immediate area with very deep pockets. Someone like, I dunno, Michael Dell.

MDC would benefit the most long term if this ever happened. We’re just not hearing ANYTHING from them since they became the largest land owner in Knox District.

User avatar
Cbdallas
Posts: 386
Joined: 29 Nov 2016 16:42

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby Cbdallas » 14 Nov 2019 16:07

Is there zero route for any federal money to apply to this station???

DPatel304
Posts: 1622
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 18:49
Location: Turtle Creek

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby DPatel304 » 14 Nov 2019 16:15

I used to be very pro rail, but I'm just not sure adding this station would be worth the money (at this point in time).

I really just feel like rail in DFW is best for commuting long distances, and that we really should be embracing bus usage more in the urban core.

User avatar
muncien
Posts: 974
Joined: 25 Oct 2016 08:46
Location: Cypress Waters

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby muncien » 15 Nov 2019 10:05

DPatel304 wrote:I used to be very pro rail, but I'm just not sure adding this station would be worth the money (at this point in time).

I really just feel like rail in DFW is best for commuting long distances, and that we really should be embracing bus usage more in the urban core.


Pointless rant follows... You may want to skip this post. lol
It's funny you say this. I know this has been something pushed for a loooong time. I personally have always hated taking the bus. And I'm not saying that because I think it's gross and I've never given it a try. I have ridden the bus more than i've ever ridden a train (mostly in LA, but here too). It seriously is one of the worst consumer experiences ever. Bumpy, LOUD, slow as molasses, obnoxiously meandering routes (okay, this is DART's fault), inconsistent connections, and completely unreliable. Sure some of that can be helped, but nearly all of it is because the bus is subject to vehicular traffic AND has to stop every block or so. Those are factors that have no solution.
In the past, when there were fewer options, people were willing to live with this as there really wasn't much choice. Even so, I used to still choose my bike over the bus for my 14 mile commute to work back in LA. Oh, and guess what... I made it to work FASTER than I would on the bus. But with highly customer centric options like Uber/Lyft/scooter/ebikes/etc., there is fewer and fewer conditions that force people onto a bus anymore. Other than creating some core routes down primary corridors with FREQUENT service, I really don't see any future for the bus. I know that's blasphamy here, but I swear, every time I decide to give the bus a try again (just last week), I am left cursing myself for doing so. lol
Sorry... Rant over.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

User avatar
Tivo_Kenevil
Posts: 1395
Joined: 20 Oct 2016 12:24

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 15 Nov 2019 10:26

ART is the future. China leading the way.

DPatel304
Posts: 1622
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 18:49
Location: Turtle Creek

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby DPatel304 » 15 Nov 2019 11:03

Muncien, all of that is totally fair and valid and I would agree with all of that. I suppose I might be a bit too optimistic in thinking we could reduce/eliminate a lot of those problems and make the experience better, but perhaps I'm being too hopeful. I definitely agree that the DART buses of 2019 would not be a good option to commute to Knox (or other areas), but I'm hoping that them changing the bus routes we might heading in the right direction.

ART is the future. China leading the way.


I'm not familiar with ART, but I assume it's some sort of automed mode of transit? If so, I agree, automated is the way of the future.

User avatar
muncien
Posts: 974
Joined: 25 Oct 2016 08:46
Location: Cypress Waters

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby muncien » 15 Nov 2019 11:24

I do like the flexibility, yet sense of permanence that comes with ART. But that being said, I believe this is something that would service the very same types of corridors that that DART should focus on for buses anyway. We're talking high volume, high frequency corridors, like Lemmon, Preston, Beltline, Loop 12, Garland Rd, etc. The most heavily trafficked corridors should have dedicated lanes for these. But there really is nothing saying you can't do the same today with a more conventional fleet... or perhaps more conventional articulated buses.
The problem is trying to be all things to all people makes the current DART system stretched so thing that it almost serves nobody. How useful is it to have a bus stop within 1/4 mile of all houses, if that bus only comes once an hour and takes a route so irregular to cover more ground that it becomes grossly inefficient at actually moving people?
So, assuming DART slims down to focus on core routes with high frequency, the question then becomes, How do you account for 'last mile' service?
Scooters
Ebikes
Walking (heaven forbid! lol)
?

I really don't know the right answer, but I do think there are more possible answers now than there were five years ago. Also, as autonomy takes hold 10-20 years from now, most of the above will be moot anyway. I see maybe a dozen or so high volume routes remaining for ART type buses (but autonomous), but all short routes and last mile will be managed by on demand drone cars. Who knows... Maybe something else unknown to us at this time will take hold.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

lakewoodhobo
Posts: 1018
Joined: 20 Oct 2016 13:49
Location: Elmwood, Oak Cliff

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby lakewoodhobo » 26 Nov 2019 10:15

Not sure when this was installed, but Union Station has lights embedded in the platform that blink red when a train is approaching. Wonder if they plan on installing these elsewhere or just at the TRE transfer points.

Unknown.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

itsjrd1964
Posts: 673
Joined: 28 Jul 2018 07:38

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby itsjrd1964 » 26 Nov 2019 14:35

lakewoodhobo wrote:Not sure when this was installed, but Union Station has lights embedded in the platform that blink red when a train is approaching. Wonder if they plan on installing these elsewhere or just at the TRE transfer points.

Unknown.jpeg


I wonder how much of this LED light addition is an ADA-related thing, and how much of it is a I'm-too-distracted-by-my-phone-to-watch-for-the-train thing. I've seen video or pics of inlaid LED strips on sidewalks in other cities (maybe outside the US? Can't remember) that light up red or green so those looking at their phones will know the light they're waiting for has changed.

Anyway, interesting addition. I don't think any of the DART stations that are being worked on have done anything besides stone/concrete and overhead lighting.

User avatar
electricron
Posts: 251
Joined: 29 Oct 2016 11:07

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby electricron » 27 Nov 2019 08:31

itsjrd1964 wrote:I wonder how much of this LED light addition is an ADA-related thing, and how much of it is a I'm-too-distracted-by-my-phone-to-watch-for-the-train thing. I've seen video or pics of inlaid LED strips on sidewalks in other cities (maybe outside the US? Can't remember) that light up red or green so those looking at their phones will know the light they're waiting for has changed.

Anyway, interesting addition. I don't think any of the DART stations that are being worked on have done anything besides stone/concrete and overhead lighting.


I'm sure the horns on approaching commuter trains can be heard over idling diesel locomotives. Light rail bells on approaching light rail trains are not as loud as diesel horns. I can only see the need to add these red platform lights at mixed stations that service both commuter and light rail trains where there are cross over ramps at grade to multiple platforms near idling extremely noisy diesel locomotives. Off hand, that limits this need to just Union, Victory, and Trinity Mills. But if there are other light rail stations with idling diesel locomotives nearby, they should also get the red platform lights.

In the photo provided in an earlier link, the red lights were placed at the at grade pedestrian crossing between the platforms. It's been my experiences during my life that engineers do not design a safety feature upon a whim, that companies do not ask to spend additional resources on safety measures on a whim. At some point in the past, somebody was injuried by a train at this pedestrian crossing and sued DART, hence DART's need to add these red platform lights.

Nobody should be walking across a pedestrian crossing looking at the phones. Stop, look, and listen at all railroad crossings should be drilled into everyone starting at preschool and kindergarten. But when people are not paying attention to nearby hazards, accidents happen. It is always the people with the most money that gets targeted with a lawsuit.

User avatar
Cbdallas
Posts: 386
Joined: 29 Nov 2016 16:42

Re: Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Postby Cbdallas » 09 Dec 2019 15:38

I saw this and thought it was interesting.

https://archpaper.com/2019/12/kansas-ci ... c-transit/


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Login