Deep Ellum: Epic ~ Knights of Pythias Temple

[DPatel304]

This is way off base. I grew up in the 90’s punk scene and have stayed involved over the years and it’s way bigger now than it ever has been. The lack of DIY spaces and places like the old red blood club is why punk/metal has pretty much moved out of DE though shows still do come thru there pretty often.

We were in Dallas visiting last week and went to BrainDead Brewing and I couldn’t believe how different the area looked

I'm not specifically talking about the punk scene though, I'm talking about how music/fashion trends have changed since the 90s. In the 90s, it was mainstream to listen to punk/metal music and dress that way, so it was easier for Deep Ellum to retain its punk/metal feel while still being popular.

So I guess I'd say the Deep Ellum is not a place for punk/metal/grunge music and fans to congregate, it's just a place that keeps up with current mainstream trends. The last time Deep Ellum was successful, it just so happened that punk/metal/grunge was also mainstream at the time. This time around, Deep Ellum is simply catering to what is popular now.

I say this as someone who was not even a teenager in the 90s, and doesn't know anything at all about the history of Deep Ellum, so I could be completley off base here, but just wanted to chime in.

[tamtagon]

If Dallas ever hosts a music scene again, Deep Ellum will be booming -- or wherever the homegrown bands perform. As the 90s rolled out, several bands had national success and that's what really made Deep Ellum popular. There can be an entire city's worth of cool bars, restaurants, boutiques all packed into a neighborhood, but it wont be special until what it's got cant be found somewhere else.

[tamtagon]

^what was the name of that club across the street from Galaxy Club? I've been trying to remember for weeks now, and just cannot. There was a couple skate ramps in the courtyard....

ORBIT ROOM ----finally!

This was possibly my all time favorite Dallas bar.

[ericthegardener]

Orbit Room?

[tamtagon]

^I don't remember any of the drama described in this story, but I do remember good times at the Orbit Room

https://www.dallasobserver.com/music/ou ... it-6401773

[ericthegardener]

^Who knows what's true, but that's not the story I heard at the time. The only thing I know for sure is that it was the best live music room at that time for the kind of music I liked, and I was very bummed to see it close. Saw so many great shows there that otherwise would not have stopped in Dallas! For me the closing of the Orbit Room was a major turning point in the Dallas music scene.

[maconahey]

[lakewoodhobo]

Dallas could land major Uber expansion, thousands of jobs
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/tec ... sands-jobs

Dallas is a leading contender for a major expansion by ride-hailing giant Uber that would transform the city into one of the tech company’s largest hubs outside of San Francisco, company officials confirmed Thursday.

Uber has zeroed in on a site in Deep Ellum for an office that’d have several thousand employees, from engineers and finance executives to salespeople. The office would span Uber’s businesses, from delivering food to developing a new urban air taxi service.

Uber has narrowed its list to fewer than a handful of cities and plans to make a decision by late August, Uber spokesman Travis Considine said. He declined to name the other cities being considered.

If Uber chooses Dallas, it’s planning to move into the Epic, an 8-acre development that’s on the eastern edge of downtown Dallas in Deep Ellum, Considine said. It is at Elm Street and Good-Latimer Expressway.

Hopefully this is a done deal and the "other cities" is just your standard card at the eco-dev negotiating table.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

Uber already has small discrete Office in West End. They have an idea what Dallas has to offer. Hope this HQ happens. Snapchat also small place in Deep Ellum.

[clcrash19]

Man I hope this happens!

[utgf]

Uber already has small discrete Office in West End. They have an idea what Dallas has to offer. Hope this HQ happens. Snapchat also small place in Deep Ellum.

Its not a HQ. Their current HQ is in SF and they are currently finishing out a 1.1 million square foot new HQ campus there close to the new Warriors Arena.




https://missionbay2020.com/vision

The Epic building in Dallas does remind me of this new residential tower in SF.

[lakewoodhobo]

What I really wanna know is, if they choose the Epic will they fill the entire building?

There's also supposed to be enough space for a second office building and I wonder if there's a chance that Uber could build an Uber Air/Elevate skyport here.

[texasstar]

Dallas Morning News

[dd_dweller]

If Dallas lands Uber, I’m sure phase 2 will get started a lot sooner than later. It mentioned two more towers could be added. I wonder how tall they can go.

I hope it’s all mixed use. More residential and office with retail. They’ve done a good job so far. Super excited about this news. Dallas needs something like this in the core.

[LBK2013]

A birdy told me this is pretty much a done deal. We'll see if they are right.

[DPatel304]

A birdy told me this is pretty much a done deal. We'll see if they are right.

Oh wow, thanks for sharing! I'll try not to get my hopes up, but this would be incredible if true.

[Tnexster]

Hope it happens, hope they build a third tower that's even bigger then a fourth plus the skyport. All of that would be.......EPIC!

[clcrash19]

Would be massive for this city and downtown core. Really hope it comes to fruition.

[Tnexster]

Would be massive for this city and downtown core. Really hope it comes to fruition.

And a total boom for the DE daytime population and demand on housing in DE.

[tamtagon]

Does anyone want to call it New Deep Ellum?

[exelone31]

Does anyone want to call it New Deep Ellum?

I feel like someone called this little area "Douche Ellum", which I heartily endorse.

[Mr. Amsterdam]

Time to move to the burbs Hannibal.

[cowboyeagle05]

While this is no Amazon if it truly is a done deal it will certainly boost the demand for more apartment starts all over. We have seen lots of announcements recently for new residential high rises but a high profile company like Uber building even a second HQ with let's say 500 employees would be an endorsement of what Dallas is trying to attract to its more urban areas. Let alone it will be nice to have that Uber logo on the skyline.

[lakewoodhobo]

According to Steve Brown's update to the story:

"If a potential move of more than a thousand Uber office workers happens, the historic commercial district on the eastern edge of downtown will become one of Dallas' hottest real estate markets.

Uber officials confirm that the ride-hailing firm is considering a location in Deep Ellum for a huge new office center — its largest new employment hub outside the company's San Francisco headquarters.

The tech-oriented transportation provider is in talks to lease a major block of office space in Deep Ellum's new Epic development on Good-Latimer Expressway. And the company would need even more office space in a new building to be constructed next door."

[eburress]

While this is no Amazon if it truly is a done deal it will certainly boost the demand for more apartment starts all over. We have seen lots of announcements recently for new residential high rises but a high profile company like Uber building even a second HQ with let's say 500 employees would be an endorsement of what Dallas is trying to attract to its more urban areas. Let alone it will be nice to have that Uber logo on the skyline.

I completely agree. If this happens, it ought to drive development throughout East Dallas, especially up and down Ross Ave (fingers crossed) and other similarly vacant or underdeveloped locales. I can also see this serving as a proof of concept to get some of the other in-town mixed-use projects, like the Spire, off the ground.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

I can also see this serving as a proof of concept to get some of the other in-town mixed-use projects, like the Spire, off the ground.

Spire? Ha!

[willyk]

While this is no Amazon if it truly is a done deal it will certainly boost the demand for more apartment starts all over. We have seen lots of announcements recently for new residential high rises but a high profile company like Uber building even a second HQ with let's say 500 employees would be an endorsement of what Dallas is trying to attract to its more urban areas. Let alone it will be nice to have that Uber logo on the skyline.

I completely agree. If this happens, it ought to drive development throughout East Dallas, especially up and down Ross Ave (fingers crossed) and other similarly vacant or underdeveloped locales. I can also see this serving as a proof of concept to get some of the other in-town mixed-use projects, like the Spire, off the ground.

I’m not so sure—I think this might drive more demand for more Deep Ellum. DE is the real magnet here, not the downtown core.

I do not think we fully appreciate what has happened in DE. Today I see efforts to turn every single storefront into something. DE has reached critical mass where each new development feeds off of the others.

The neighborhood can support far more hotel, residential and retail than is there now. I think that the Epic deal would prove that to the market, and lead to the development of more Epics around the edges of DE.

[cowboyeagle05]

The city needs to start considering moving its city services offices located in Deep Ellum. That's a major developable site without historical buildings to have to work around. Could easily work for someone to market a modern office, residential and retail destination.

[tamtagon]

Too bad they're planning on getting rid of the Deep Ellum Station.

[cowboyeagle05]

Yeah, such a major employer will cause some discussion on DARTS and the City Councils part. DART can't just change their plans at this point though. It's kinda set in stone. Course in the case of Uber it sounds funny that we would be annoyed they didn't have good access to a transit station when the whole companies future rests on privatized individual transportation solutions. I know not every employee would use Uber to get home just like not all employees would use DART trains to go home but still a funny problem to bring up.

To me, it's like complaining that Toyota didn't choose to be in Downtown Dallas...It's a car company whose majority company culture is built around Plano type communities continuing to build roads, highways so every man and child will own and drive a car and be chained to that model of transportation.

[tamtagon]

Was Uber the ride share software company recently going public? and the IPO was distressed by deep intentions to buy privatize public transportation systems?

I don't know the bend of this source, but apparently Uber is the ride sharer stating goals for bus and train riders:

https://48hills.org/2019/05/ubers-plans ... c-transit/

BY TIM REDMOND - MAY 6, 2019
Uber has acknowledged in a federal filing that its long-term goal is to privatize public transportation around the world.

In a document filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, the ride-hail company reports that it seeks, as part of its growth strategy, not just to get people out of private cars but to get them off public buses and trains.

So, maybe losing the Deep Ellum Station is a plus for Uber decision makers!


********
haha I just read Cowboyeagle post. doh!

[quixomniac]

Too bad they're planning on getting rid of the Deep Ellum Station.

Where does it say that Deep Ellum station is closing?
I thought the issue was about how the rail alignment was going to fit with D2?

[lakewoodhobo]

Too bad they're planning on getting rid of the Deep Ellum Station.

Where does it say that Deep Ellum station is closing?
I thought the issue was about how the rail alignment was going to fit with D2?

All of the D2 alignment options had a wye where the new tracks met the existing track, which meant removing that station.

Screen Shot 2019-05-18 at 6.20.13 PM.jpg

Pretty sure Baylor Medical Center Station will just be renamed Deep Ellum / Baylor Station.

[cowboyeagle05]

Bottle Blonde will also have to go...

[itsjrd1964]

Bottle Blonde will also have to go...

Where's the cry-in-my-beer emoji for that one?

[quixomniac]

Too bad they're planning on getting rid of the Deep Ellum Station.

Where does it say that Deep Ellum station is closing?
I thought the issue was about how the rail alignment was going to fit with D2?

All of the D2 alignment options had a wye where the new tracks met the existing track, which meant removing that station.

Screen Shot 2019-05-18 at 6.20.13 PM.jpg

Pretty sure Baylor Medical Center Station will just be renamed Deep Ellum / Baylor Station.

Wow I didnt catch that. That's pathetic. They definitely left off the Deep ellum station from all renderings for years. I thought the omission was a mistake not an intention of closing the station.
It's arguably the most exciting neighborhood Dallas has and will only getting better.
Jamming a wye at that intersection has Deep ellum losing a dart station, jamming up traffic in a location that already has alot of traffic, cutting up deep ellum with tracks with no benefit really and ruining one of the best selling points of the whole Epic development. They can argue that the Baylor station will be a deep ellum station but it is incredibly obvious that station serves Baylor.

[northsouth]

Honestly the best location for the wye would've been where the Epic is now, but the planning of D2 hadn't gotten far enough along to begin securing land for a junction (it still hasn't), while the development of the Epic just went on along, so now they're stuck putting to the north. They considered at the suggestion of some local stakeholders a plan to put the whole wye underground underneath the current curve of the tracks out of the median of Good-Latimer, but aside from being way too expensive and logistically terrible to build and operate, might have taken out Deep Ellum station anyways.

[DPatel304]

Bottle Blonde will also have to go...

I'm guessing they'll just lease in another nearby space. With Clutch coming to this area, I think this particular part of town is just getting started as the next party spot.

[quixomniac]

here's a better image from April 25th from the most recent public meeting
https://www.dart.org/ShareRoot/about/ex ... 5apr19.pdf

east_tunnel.jpeg

west_easttunnel.jpeg

Here is the original deep ellum focus area study
https://www.dart.org/ShareRoot/about/ex ... 8aug18.pdf

Bottled blonde is at the intersection of swiss and good latimer for reference, right at the wye.

This is one of those situations where the deadland under a highway could have been used.
They like to put green suggesting grass at the wye intersection, but it might as well be deadland as no one will spend any time there with trains passing by every 15-20 minutes.

[muncien]

Those portal areas, where rail transitions from below grade to above grade are always terrible. I still can't see how this approach is any better for DE than the original D2 proposal which was to intersect more naturally a block further down and preserve the station. I get that it was at-grade, and traffic would be impacted, but LRT can effectively serve as a street car in sections, and does so in much more congested areas in other cities. DE should have worked to keep DART from overbuilding the original D2 (because we know DART would have) and instead simply integrated it into the street.
IDK... but this whole portal idea is terrible IMO, and in some ways is more of an impediment than I345 is.

[lakewoodhobo]

Bottle Blonde will also have to go...

I'm way more upset about losing Lizard Lounge, but I guess I'd be ok with it if they reopen elsewhere in Deep Ellum.

[quixomniac]

Those portal areas, where rail transitions from below grade to above grade are always terrible. I still can't see how this approach is any better for DE than the original D2 proposal which was to intersect more naturally a block further down and preserve the station. I get that it was at-grade, and traffic would be impacted, but LRT can effectively serve as a street car in sections, and does so in much more congested areas in other cities. DE should have worked to keep DART from overbuilding the original D2 (because we know DART would have) and instead simply integrated it into the street.
IDK... but this whole portal idea is terrible IMO, and in some ways is more of an impediment than I345 is.

I agree, it's more of an impediment than I345, which is ironic given they even proposed alternatives in case I345 was torn down to make this alignment future proof.

It looks like the Deep Ellum Foundation led by (someone?) has some input, as shown in the deep ellum focus area slides, some articles point to earlier protest, but I suppose once it was agreed that the station was to be torn down, I suppose they have only have minor input. I suppose it is too late to go back

Some of the slides show that perhaps earlier they discussed adding a station, but maybe that is out of discussion too. Also I see a streetcar line, but maybe that is just something someone threw in there without any consideration as to how to fund it. These pictures also show an alternate wye, which I feel would have made more sense to have only 1 cluster near the bridge instead of 2 spread out.

deep_ellum_focus_area_alternatives.PNG

[jsoto3]

As much as I hate the new alignment with the additional wye and portal, I think there is still potential for an interesting architectural/urban-design response to the problem. Rather than try to deal with left over "open" space around the portal and wye, DART and the city should court a private developer to build an interesting mixed-use development on top of it. Calgary's new central library is a good example of how an interesting building can cover a subway portal, minimize its impact and still provide a high-quality public realm around it.

https://www.citylab.com/design/2018/11/ ... rs/575032/
https://www.archdaily.com/905263/calgar ... y-snohetta
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO-TeIT-ZB4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KivaSJQK7WM

Calgary Central Library.jpg

[eburress]

That'd be a great use of what could otherwise be wasted real estate. Incorporate a rail station into the project and you'd kill two birds with one stone.

[cowboyeagle05]

From the beginning of the D2 Tunnel plans, DART has shown concepts with permitting a building over the Deep Ellum Y. The problem is they have to find a developer who wants to deal with that mess. It may be common in other cities but here it seems like most developers wouldn't want to deal with the issues unless DART offered some very sweetheart deal.

[muncien]

If I'm not mistaken, they were hoping to do something similar over at the portal near the proposed South Asian museum. I wouldn't hold out much hope there either... but you never know. Maybe someone will surprise us one day.

[Hannibal Lecter]

The crane on The Hamilton (the apartment building) is scheduled to come down this weekend.

[maconahey]

[eburress]

Very cool! This is some of the most unique architecture going up in the city right now!

[tamtagon]

um.... I like it yellow!