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Lemmon Ave. lane reduction (between Turtle Creek Blvd and US-75)

DPatel304
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Lemmon Ave. lane reduction (between Turtle Creek Blvd and US-75)

Postby DPatel304 » 02 May 2019 14:27

Image
This was posted in the Downtown Residents Council (Dallas) Facebook group.

Anybody heard anything about this? I'm actually quite surprised by this news, as I never really considered these roads to be a problem. They are certainly wider and more higher in speed compared to a lot of other roads in Uptown, but I've never really found them to be a hinderance to the walkability of the area.

With that said, if they want to reduce lanes and (hopefully) improve pedestrian infrastrcuture, then I am all for it. I'm guessing they are considering this because, not only are we getting the Central Market development, but we also know that eventually the Rustic and Mutts will also eventually be redeveloped, and you also have the entire block that currently houses CVS, Hot Joy, etc.. that could definitely be redeveloped in the future as well.

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Re: Lemmon Ave. lane reduction (between Turtle Creek Blvd and US-75)

Postby dfwcre8tive » 02 May 2019 16:00

DPatel304 wrote:Image
This was posted in the Downtown Residents Council (Dallas) Facebook group.

Anybody heard anything about this? I'm actually quite surprised by this news, as I never really considered these roads to be a problem. They are certainly wider and more higher in speed compared to a lot of other roads in Uptown, but I've never really found them to be a hinderance to the walkability of the area.

With that said, if they want to reduce lanes and (hopefully) improve pedestrian infrastrcuture, then I am all for it. I'm guessing they are considering this because, not only are we getting the Central Market development, but we also know that eventually the Rustic and Mutts will also eventually be redeveloped, and you also have the entire block that currently houses CVS, Hot Joy, etc.. that could definitely be redeveloped in the future as well.


Adding bike lanes to connect the Katy Trail to DART?

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flyswatter
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Re: Lemmon Ave. lane reduction (between Turtle Creek Blvd and US-75)

Postby flyswatter » 02 May 2019 18:49

This is surprising. There are great breaks in traffic that allows safe crossing even without the cross walk signs but if it means wider sidewalks then I have no complaints here :)

It is odd that they're spending the money to resurface parts of it if they're just going to slim it down...

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Lemmon Ave. lane reduction (between Turtle Creek Blvd and US-75)

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 02 May 2019 21:18

flyswatter wrote:It is odd that they're spending the money to resurface parts of it if they're just going to slim it down...


Not a all. You're talking about a city government so incompetent that it spent $350,000 (plus interest for 20 years) to rebuild the curbs and fill some potholes on Good-Latimer -- six months before DART tore the entire street out and rebuilt it from scratch for their rail line.

LongonBigD
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Re: Lemmon Ave. lane reduction (between Turtle Creek Blvd and US-75)

Postby LongonBigD » 02 May 2019 21:27

flyswatter wrote:It is odd that they're spending the money to resurface parts of it if they're just going to slim it down...


Speaking of....I have always wondered why we resurface Lemmon Ave (West of Oaklawn to Inwood) every 3-4 years like clockwork. How much does that cost? Why not just make it concrete? Why? Any insight?

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Cbdallas
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Re: Lemmon Ave. lane reduction (between Turtle Creek Blvd and US-75)

Postby Cbdallas » 06 May 2019 14:40

I would love to see Lemmon narrowed to 2 lanes with a large planted median and let midrise and highrise development go all the way to Inwood. This entire road from 75 to Inwood feels like it is still 1975 in Dallas with old strip centers and run down sidewalks and yet it is seen by hundreds of thousands of drivers a day and used more like a highway to get to and from Love Field.

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Re: Lemmon Ave. lane reduction (between Turtle Creek Blvd and US-75)

Postby lakewoodhobo » 07 May 2019 10:27

I can't tell you how many times I've almost been hit by someone that's not paying attention on Lemmon Ave near Howell St. Not sure what the answer is, but I'm all for some traffic calming here.
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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Lemmon Ave. lane reduction (between Turtle Creek Blvd and US-75)

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 07 May 2019 11:24

Build a street car from Love Field to The Dart Uptown station and down Haskell to East Dallas.

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TurtleCreek2013
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Re: Lemmon Ave. lane reduction (between Turtle Creek Blvd and US-75)

Postby TurtleCreek2013 » 14 May 2019 13:01

The Uptown PID and the Dallas Council member requested the City of Dallas Thoroughfare Plan Administrator to investigate a lane reduction on Lemmon Avenue where there currently are four lanes in each direction. According to the Administrator, the reason to reduce the number of lanes from four to three would be to reduce the crossing distance for pedestrians.

I am unable to attend the meeting tonight, but I am skeptical on the reason for making the change. I often walk across Lemmon Avenue, and I have plenty of time to cross. I suspect the real reason for this proposed change has to do with whatever the city plans to do with the fourth lanes. There is no question that reducing a lane of traffic will increase traffic congestion during the morning and evening rush, which seems like a bad idea to me.

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muncien
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Re: Lemmon Ave. lane reduction (between Turtle Creek Blvd and US-75)

Postby muncien » 14 May 2019 13:14

TurtleCreek2013 wrote:The Uptown PID and the Dallas Council member requested the City of Dallas Thoroughfare Plan Administrator to investigate a lane reduction on Lemmon Avenue where there currently are four lanes in each direction. According to the Administrator, the reason to reduce the number of lanes from four to three would be to reduce the crossing distance for pedestrians.

I am unable to attend the meeting tonight, but I am skeptical on the reason for making the change. I often walk across Lemmon Avenue, and I have plenty of time to cross. I suspect the real reason for this proposed change has to do with whatever the city plans to do with the fourth lanes. There is no question that reducing a lane of traffic will increase traffic congestion during the morning and evening rush, which seems like a bad idea to me.


It's been years since I had to cross this street, but I remember specifically feeling vulnerable when walking to Taco Bueno back in the day, and even more on edge the first time I took my newborn on a stroller across here. That was ten years ago, and I have not done it since then.
Perhaps things have changed since then, but I certainly recall it being problematic and needing some narrowing. The problem is that this road is treated as a high speed shortcut by many drivers who don't themselves live in the area. Unlike four lane suburban thoroughfares that have fewer intersections and crossings, this road cuts right through high foot traffic areas and should not be treated in the same manner.
I don't live anywhere near there any more, so I don't have a horse in the race and won't be attending, but I certainly understand where folks are coming from who would want this.

EDIT: Wrong part of Lemmon... My bad. ;)

While I agree the stretch being considered is narrower (since each direction of travel is separated), it is still quite fast, and the same general concerns apply.
Last edited by muncien on 14 May 2019 13:35, edited 1 time in total.
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DPatel304
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Re: Lemmon Ave. lane reduction (between Turtle Creek Blvd and US-75)

Postby DPatel304 » 14 May 2019 13:30

Thanks for bumping this topic, as I almost forgot. The meeting is today (check the OP) if anyone is interested. I'm going to try and attend, as I'm just curious what they have planned here.

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TNWE
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Re: Lemmon Ave. lane reduction (between Turtle Creek Blvd and US-75)

Postby TNWE » 14 May 2019 14:02

TurtleCreek2013 wrote:The Uptown PID and the Dallas Council member requested the City of Dallas Thoroughfare Plan Administrator to investigate a lane reduction on Lemmon Avenue where there currently are four lanes in each direction. According to the Administrator, the reason to reduce the number of lanes from four to three would be to reduce the crossing distance for pedestrians.

I am unable to attend the meeting tonight, but I am skeptical on the reason for making the change. I often walk across Lemmon Avenue, and I have plenty of time to cross. I suspect the real reason for this proposed change has to do with whatever the city plans to do with the fourth lanes. There is no question that reducing a lane of traffic will increase traffic congestion during the morning and evening rush, which seems like a bad idea to me.

I'm curious if the Uptown PID and Mr. Kingston have already picked out the consultant to award this graft-errrr, "work" to...

Other than the curve where Eastbound Lemmon rejoins the westbound lanes, I don't know that drivers are "speeding" along Lemmon (and pedestrians crossing at that point are more accurately termed "jaywalkers") I guess there's an argument for additional light-controlled crosswalks at Travis and Oak Grove, but only if it's synced up with the lights at McKinney and Cole so they only give the walk signal when Lemmon traffic is stopped anyway and keep drivers from racing toward the next red light. The on-demand HAWK-style ones always seem to gum up traffic for a single pedestrian (which is probably deliberate on the part of car-phobic city planners as it artificially creates congestion where there was none before, all so pedestrians don't have to wait 30-90 seconds).

DPatel304
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Re: Lemmon Ave. lane reduction (between Turtle Creek Blvd and US-75)

Postby DPatel304 » 14 May 2019 20:32

For anyone who couldn't make the meeting today and wants to voice their opinion, please e-mail:
Kimberly.Smith@DallasCityHall.com

Just got back from the meeting. This project is in the VERY early preliminary stages and this was the very first meeting on the subject. The actual presentation was fairly short, and, at this point, the big decision is going to be, should this happen or not. They also said, if they do go with the lane reduction, they could potentially widen sidewalks, add bike lanes, and/or provide more street parking.

The presenters also gave us a hypothetical timeline of the project which assumes it is well received (which it was not). If it were well received, they would start the design process in September, which would take a year. I forgot the exact specifics after that, but it sounded like best case scenario we are looking at a 2021-2023 timeline (that is probably not exact, so forgive me if I am off. Also keep in mind that this is a hypothetical best case scenario).

DPatel304
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Re: Lemmon Ave. lane reduction (between Turtle Creek Blvd and US-75)

Postby DPatel304 » 15 May 2019 16:58

Also, this is the first time I've ever been to a meeting like this and all I have to say is: NIMBYs be crazy. I'm not much of a public speaker, so, unfortunately, I didn't really share any of my thoughts during this meeting, but it was so hard to sit there and listen to a lot of the people who were opposed to this project. The mindset of some of these people who live in Uptown/Turtle Creek was just astounding to me.

LongonBigD
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Re: Lemmon Ave. lane reduction (between Turtle Creek Blvd and US-75)

Postby LongonBigD » 15 May 2019 17:10

Thanks for attending and posting your thoughts.

I have only been to a couple of "neighborhood" meetings myself. My experience was that NIMBYs rule. Who else would show up? It's like people who rate things or comment on reviews - it's usually the negative responses you hear.

It seemed to me at the meetings I was at that the public hearings were just a formality. It feels like the decision is already made, they just need to check the box that says "Did you get public feedback." Hopefully I'm not just being cynical about this. If your only excuse for opposing this is the "traffic" it will create at rush hour, I'm not going to be terribly sympathetic.

It seems to me that Lemmon is a cut-through to get from Love Field to NCX (while avoiding HP). I say reduce lanes, add a trolley and lets go from Love Field to Fair Park.

DPatel304
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Re: Lemmon Ave. lane reduction (between Turtle Creek Blvd and US-75)

Postby DPatel304 » 15 May 2019 17:28

You're exactly right about "NIMBYs rule", and, like you said, they are going to be the ones who show up. Except they didn't seem to quite grasp that concept and were of the belief that basically everyone was against this project, based on the limited number of people who showed up to the meeting.

If your only excuse for opposing this is the "traffic" it will create at rush hour, I'm not going to be terribly sympathetic.


That's absolutely what their mindset was. Some of the comments made during the meeting were just ridiculous, and I have no idea why these people choose to live in the city, because they clearly have a very (DFW) suburban mindset. Whenever the point was made that this could encourage more bikers/walkers, the NIMBYs retorted by saying "That [walking/biking] is what the Katy Trail is for!". They simply could not grasp the concept that people can walk/bike to their destinations and doing so could eventually ease traffic.

What's funny is that it seemed like I was the only person to actually walk to this meeting, and I was probably one of the further residents (exactly 1 mile away according to google). It was a beautiful day, and most of them closer than I do, and still chose to drive.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Lemmon Ave. lane reduction (between Turtle Creek Blvd and US-75)

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 16 May 2019 10:06

DPatel304 wrote:What's funny is that it seemed like I was the only person to actually walk to this meeting, and I was probably one of the further residents (exactly 1 mile away according to google). It was a beautiful day, and most of them closer than I do, and still chose to drive.


What's funny is that you don't get the hint. The folks who live there are happy with the status quo. It's only the folks from outside the area, who don't have the same involvement and vested interest, who want to change it.

It's the same thing in my neighborhood, Deep Ellum. The self-proclaimed urban planners from outside the area are dead set on screwing up the streets. They won't have to live with the consequences.

DPatel304
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Re: Lemmon Ave. lane reduction (between Turtle Creek Blvd and US-75)

Postby DPatel304 » 16 May 2019 10:11

Hannibal Lecter wrote:What's funny is that you don't get the hint. The folks who live there are happy with the status quo. It's only the folks from outside the area, who don't have the same involvement and vested interest, who want to change it.

It's the same thing in my neighborhood, Deep Ellum. The self-proclaimed urban planners from outside the area are dead set on screwing up the streets. They won't have to live with the consequences.


I'm on Turtle Creek and Cedar Springs Rd, so, while I'm not directly on Lemmon Ave, I'm not sure I'd consider myself an outsider.

I'm open to having my mind changed though, I just didn't really hear any good arguments from the people attending the meeting. Apparently people who want to walk more and bike more in Uptown have no business on the streets of Uptown, and should just go to the Katy Trail for their walking/biking needs, according to some people there.

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Re: Lemmon Ave. lane reduction (between Turtle Creek Blvd and US-75)

Postby mdg109 » 17 May 2019 14:19

My condo is two blocks away from the proposed Lemmon change. I walk to several places around my neighborhood. Having Lemmon more walkable would be awesome. Wish I could've made the meeting. Thanks for the feedback, DPatel.


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