Uptown: Cole Park Place Condos (3923 Cole Ave) (3 ST) - Completed 2018

DPatel304
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Uptown: Cole Park Place Condos (3923 Cole Ave) (3 ST) - Completed 2018

Postby DPatel304 » 04 Feb 2019 21:54

Image
http://www.coleparkplace.com/floor-plans.php

I know several users (myself included) have expressed interest in moderately priced (~$550K) condos in Dallas, so I thought I might bring some attention to this new condo development and maybe also open up a bit of discussion on the condo market in general.

While this is comparatively cheaper than Museum Tower and Blue Ciel, when you factor in HOA dues, it would still be slightly cheaper to own a Townhome. Based on the site, it looks like 8 of the 12 units have already been sold, so hopefully that might signal to developers that there is indeed demand for condos in the area. I've really been anxiously waiting to see more condos built in the Dallas market, but, so far, they seem few and far between. Even this development is extremely tiny, which makes me think developers are still very hesitant to build condos, for whatever reason.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Uptown: Cole Park Place Condos (3923 Cole Ave) (3 ST) - Completed 2018

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 05 Feb 2019 00:03

550K ....That's not moderately priced my guy.

DPatel304
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Re: Uptown: Cole Park Place Condos (3923 Cole Ave) (3 ST) - Completed 2018

Postby DPatel304 » 05 Feb 2019 00:28

Yeah, maybe not the right word choice. I'm basically trying to say these condos are more reasonably priced than Museum Tower/Blue Ciel (which isn't really saying much).

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tamtagon
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Re: Uptown: Cole Park Place Condos (3923 Cole Ave) (3 ST) - Completed 2018

Postby tamtagon » 05 Feb 2019 07:00

Moderately priced for the neighborhood? It's normal for residences in the middle of things to cost more than the suburbs and edge of town. Exall Lake is up to a 30 minute walk.

Maybe we're at the point where it's more difficult to consolidate smaller parcels for a large mixed use project than to build a smaller scale single purpose condos.

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joshua.dodd
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Re: Uptown: Cole Park Place Condos (3923 Cole Ave) (3 ST) - Completed 2018

Postby joshua.dodd » 05 Feb 2019 07:31

I'm just waiting for more diversity in our architecture...

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emmasensei
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Re: Uptown: Cole Park Place Condos (3923 Cole Ave) (3 ST) - Completed 2018

Postby emmasensei » 05 Feb 2019 07:37

Funny to see these mentioned here...we actually seriously considered purchasing one of these when we moved to Dallas last year (the loan product we chose ultimately limited us to SFHs, though). The finishes are really nice and the location is perfect.

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Matt777
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Re: Uptown: Cole Park Place Condos (3923 Cole Ave) (3 ST) - Completed 2018

Postby Matt777 » 05 Feb 2019 10:01

Yeah, these aren't really mid range based on the square foot price, I'd say lower high end. They do deliver a lot for the money in that range though, especially location and finishes. It's no wonder they've sold briskly.

What still boggles my mind is the tiny sidewalks that are still allowed in Dallas' urban areas. It looks like they went with the minimum despite being adjacent to Cole Park and West Village. It's very clear that they could have built wider sidewalks but they chose lots of open grass instead.... we need better sidewalk standards.

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Re: Uptown: Cole Park Place Condos (3923 Cole Ave) (3 ST) - Completed 2018

Postby emmasensei » 05 Feb 2019 11:09

Isn't Cole another street that will be undergoing a re-do soon? I was under the impression it will be converted back to a two-way street and the sidewalks redone.

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Matt777
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Re: Uptown: Cole Park Place Condos (3923 Cole Ave) (3 ST) - Completed 2018

Postby Matt777 » 05 Feb 2019 11:52

emmasensei wrote:Isn't Cole another street that will be undergoing a re-do soon? I was under the impression it will be converted back to a two-way street and the sidewalks redone.


Ah, you could be right. Maybe that's why the streetscape they installed looks so temporary and basic.

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Dmkflyer
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Re: Uptown: Cole Park Place Condos (3923 Cole Ave) (3 ST) - Completed 2018

Postby Dmkflyer » 05 Feb 2019 15:13

I'm a Realtor and I work with 2 different investor/developers and they want to do more of these in Dallas, but the market hasn't really shaped up for them in Dallas in a larger scale. It is something that takes most new developers to town aback when they assess the market here and see this. It is changing, but not at a pace that would tip the scales toward more condo building here. There are a lot of dynamics at play on why this is the case.

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Re: Uptown: Cole Park Place Condos (3923 Cole Ave) (3 ST) - Completed 2018

Postby LongonBigD » 05 Feb 2019 15:23

This type of development (3 or more stories of condo flats) is seen more in Oaklawn west of Preston Road. I’ve only seen a small number (example 4345? McKinney Ave). I wonder what the difference in land cost is between these two parts of Oaklawn is and how much impact that has.

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Re: Uptown: Cole Park Place Condos (3923 Cole Ave) (3 ST) - Completed 2018

Postby DPatel304 » 05 Feb 2019 16:28

Dmkflyer wrote:I'm a Realtor and I work with 2 different investor/developers and they want to do more of these in Dallas, but the market hasn't really shaped up for them in Dallas in a larger scale. It is something that takes most new developers to town aback when they assess the market here and see this. It is changing, but not at a pace that would tip the scales toward more condo building here. There are a lot of dynamics at play on why this is the case.


That really surprises me. I wonder what Dallas is lacking that other markets or not? Do you have any insight as to how they determine this? As far as I can tell, nobody has really attempted to build a new condo development in Dallas in quite sometime (at least not the type we are referring to).

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Re: Uptown: Cole Park Place Condos (3923 Cole Ave) (3 ST) - Completed 2018

Postby muncien » 06 Feb 2019 09:44

Yeah, I too am having a hard time buying this... I have been following condo prices in Oaklawn (mostly older stuff) very closely for the last five years or so. They have performed considerably well up until the last six months. If there was ever a time to bring some new mid market condos into the area, that was it.
That being said... I have seen a noticeable cooling of that market for the last six months. Many price reductions and longer time on the market. As it stands now, I wouldn't be so quick to add new product. Conversions on the other hand (apartment to condo)... that is a much more doable scenario. But we don't get any of those either.
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Central Park Place Condos (4011 Cole Ave)

Postby LongonBigD » 08 Jan 2021 22:37

C2BFAD32-C4C7-49CF-9F55-0EE1EF727231.jpeg
One block north of this project, someone has put together about 12 lots and is offering it for potential development of one or more high rises.

“Waller Group Properties is proud to present this premier Class-A multifamily development opportunity located in the heart of Uptown Dallas. The Central Park Condos (4011 Cole Ave) and the adjoining sites comprise an assemblage of the premier high-rise residential development sites in Dallas. The site is approximately 175’ deep and features up to 520’ of Cole avenue frontage, facing Cole Park.”

I have always wondered when someone would put this together. A large park for your front yard with great views of DT, Uptown and Turtle Creek. For now just a pipe dream, but perhaps more. Two blocks from West Village, 2 acres for the low, low price of $27 million. At that price, you would have to go tall, but this kinda feels like “scare the neighbors with initial proposal so they don’t think the 7 story actual build is so bad.”

I just assumed this would happen on the north side of the park first.

Here is the link:
https://wallergrouphomes.com/properties/?propertyId=830501-sale&fbclid=IwAR3nj1S9GC9ZysoXuZHl4DNUdsCG5BYM2GZ05Ic1cQ4TT3ccL6ZMC6bPesQ
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Ace
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Re: Uptown: Cole Park Place Condos (3923 Cole Ave) (3 ST) - Completed 2018

Postby Ace » 09 Jan 2021 11:49

DPatel304 wrote:
Dmkflyer wrote:I'm a Realtor and I work with 2 different investor/developers and they want to do more of these in Dallas, but the market hasn't really shaped up for them in Dallas in a larger scale. It is something that takes most new developers to town aback when they assess the market here and see this. It is changing, but not at a pace that would tip the scales toward more condo building here. There are a lot of dynamics at play on why this is the case.


That really surprises me. I wonder what Dallas is lacking that other markets or not? Do you have any insight as to how they determine this? As far as I can tell, nobody has really attempted to build a new condo development in Dallas in quite sometime (at least not the type we are referring to).


I figured out what is going on after moving to Houston. Dallas is all about iconic shopping centers. Houston has long had the anomaly of tall skyscrapers built out in the suburbs. I just think there is too much prime real estate in Dallas around all those shopping centers to get a lot of condos focused in one area.
Houston will get a tall skyscraper built and feel happy with cheap retail strips built around it. In Dallas, the opposite is more the case.
Houston stands a better chance of getting lots of condos built for this reason. In Dallas, having all those iconic shopping centers is a good thing though. This is a blessing hidden in plain sight that people in Dallas take for granted.

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Matt777
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Re: Uptown: Cole Park Place Condos (3923 Cole Ave) (3 ST) - Completed 2018

Postby Matt777 » 09 Jan 2021 15:22



I would like to see them try and move that early 1900s blue wood frame building but I doubt that will happen.

The rest of the buildings are architecturally insignificant and characterless. They almost have some midcentury style to them but not quite. They won't be missed.

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Re: Uptown: Cole Park Place Condos (3923 Cole Ave) (3 ST) - Completed 2018

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 09 Jan 2021 16:35

This area is highly desirable but I will def be curious to see who might bite on such land. I have been working in the Knox/Upper Uptown real estate market for several years now and leasing is def very steady and most move ins are related to being fed up with Uptown/Victory Park party atmosphere.
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Re: Uptown: Cole Park Place Condos (3923 Cole Ave) (3 ST) - Completed 2018

Postby I45Tex » 10 Jan 2021 01:45

Ace wrote:
DPatel304 wrote:
Dmkflyer wrote:I'm a Realtor and I work with 2 different investor/developers and they want to do more of these in Dallas, but the market hasn't really shaped up for them in Dallas in a larger scale. It is something that takes most new developers to town aback when they assess the market here and see this. It is changing, but not at a pace that would tip the scales toward more condo building here. There are a lot of dynamics at play on why this is the case.


That really surprises me. I wonder what Dallas is lacking that other markets or not? Do you have any insight as to how they determine this? As far as I can tell, nobody has really attempted to build a new condo development in Dallas in quite sometime (at least not the type we are referring to).


I figured out what is going on after moving to Houston. Dallas is all about iconic shopping centers. Houston has long had the anomaly of tall skyscrapers built out in the suburbs. I just think there is too much prime real estate in Dallas around all those shopping centers to get a lot of condos focused in one area.
Houston will get a tall skyscraper built and feel happy with cheap retail strips built around it. In Dallas, the opposite is more the case.
Houston stands a better chance of getting lots of condos built for this reason. In Dallas, having all those iconic shopping centers is a good thing though. This is a blessing hidden in plain sight that people in Dallas take for granted.


This is a good observation. I think the budget and cleanliness of shopping center design is most responsible (certainly more than any real social or cultural differences) for Houstonians' gripe that the cityscape of North Texas feels boring and sanitized. They don't level that critique at Austin (with strip malls similarly utilitarian as Houston's are) and they generally avoid saying it about Houston suburb Sugar Land (which is manicured similarly to North Dallas retail) because a lot of the cosmopolitan Central and Southeast Asian upper middle class immigrants live there.

Houston's mantra that no zoning means you can build anywhere is not reality. *You* won't. Who will is the same basic set of people who would get financing to build in any other growing metro; you and everyone else who are not in commercial real estate or contracting can go buy/rent your house or storefront from one of them or a reseller just like anywhere else. There is freer submarket competition and flux in what that subset of the population can attempt to finance and where: and it may keep the initial markup lower than it would be in other cities, although maybe that's the relative lack of urban flood protection suppressing prices relative to the rest of America. But in any case Houston's not seeing unique urban homesteaders and makers entering the market and building DIY urbanism as often as the availability of empty land would seem to suggest we might.

For buyers who seek to pay extra in hopes to insure that their property values grow ASAP, though, the higher local levels of flux may actually cut down on the options -- such a buyer (and developers who would target such a buyer) may feel the need to cluster in a group with other deed-restriction protected luxury investment. In the absence of a zoning commission, corridor-based urban development is more open to undesired new buildings and land uses suddenly coming in. What appear to be tall spikes of far-flung intensity may reflect clumping into nodes of private risk management.

Public zoning ordinances in Dallas-Fort Worth may remove this need and thus encourage office and apartment building corridor activity patterns (with or without a freeway corridor) and redevelopment processes that are longer and with lower peak heights than Houston continues to build.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Uptown: Cole Park Place Condos (3923 Cole Ave) (3 ST) - Completed 2018

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 10 Jan 2021 18:05

DPatel304 wrote:That really surprises me. I wonder what Dallas is lacking that other markets or not? Do you have any insight as to how they determine this? As far as I can tell, nobody has really attempted to build a new condo development in Dallas in quite sometime (at least not the type we are referring to).


I realize 30+ years is a long time, and that many of the members here weren't born yet in the 1980's, but among those who were around for the I-30 apocalypse even the mention of the word "condo" can still bring an slight, involuntarily shudder. It took the local real estate industry 25 years to recovery from that disaster, and the local banking industry still hasn't. Some traumas can take generations to heal.