Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

[Tnexster]

Starting to see a bunch of rebar sticking up out of the fresh roof, hope that means they intend to keep moving up.

[CTroyMathis]

Everything they seem to have been doing the last couple of weeks at the Harwood/Ross corner up top seems indicative of continuing upward along Harwood. Framing for amenities deck wall, and so on. The hotel sort of hovers over the top in renderings so we should see some tall circular pillars eventually on that corner first. Maybe after the rest of the roof on the other side is complete.

[cowboyeagle05]

Still no hotel flag correct?

[jsoto3]

What is this like 10 acres of parking? Or is it even more than that?

Per a rough area measurement in Google maps, each floor is +/- 80,000sf, X 9 floors = 16.5 acres. That's about the area of the 6 blocks located between Ross & Bryan and St. Paul & Olive.

[itsjrd1964]

Still no hotel flag correct?

There was brief rumor/talk somewhere, I don't remember where I saw it, that Hyatt's Centric brand was considered or looked at for this, but I've seen nothing more about it.

[Thymant]

Still no hotel flag correct?

There was brief rumor/talk somewhere, I don't remember where I saw it, that Hyatt's Centric brand was considered or looked at for this, but I've seen nothing more about it.

Hyatt Centric was the hotel flag placed on earlier more detailed renderings for this project.

[cowboyeagle05]

I'll recap what I said before. I hope we get the hotel but I am not sold yet its happening. I am just waiting like everyone else trying to read the tea leaves. I think its a 50/50 chance for the hotel at this point and 25% chance we will get the residential tower started sometime in the next 5 years.

[R1070]

I hope we are all proven wrong. This site has the potential to be a great project!

[Tivo_Kenevil]

The hotel and residential were false promises. This has always been about the garage.

[cowboyeagle05]

My exact point. I will be glad IF we get both other parts but this is a pig in lipstick project. The side towers were just there to make the city council swallow it easier and to improve the overall PR to a giant parking garage project. Let's call a spade a spade here. Yes, a hotel would do well as an amenity for the Trammel Crow tower but this is always been about the parking. Again I still watch and wait to see if we at least get the hotel tower.

[willyk]

Maybe the Hall Arts hotel will do well and validate the business case for a hotel here.

[Tnexster]

Not sure if we have seen this before but here is a marketing brochure.

http://retailstreetadvisors.com/uploads ... 1.2017.pdf

[willyk]

Interesting. Lots of cafe seating on Ross—good. Lots of “temporary” stuff on Olive—I wonder what they have planned there.

[cowboyeagle05]

That's the site of the residential tower. If and when they build the residential tower it will go all the way to the ground level and the leasing center and amenities will most likely be on the ground level. I didn't suspect they will build any additional retail space on the residential tower portion if that is every built.

[Tnexster]

So looking down at this just a few minutes ago it appears like they are finishing up the roof without going any higher. They capped the elevator shafts with concrete and to be honest it just looks like they are about done. So this multi acre garage is just that.

[Mgreen15]

So looking down at this just a few minutes ago it appears like they are finishing up the roof without going any higher. They capped the elevator shafts with concrete and to be honest it just looks like they are about done. So this multi acre garage is just that.

Wow.. what a major disappointment for downtown if this is true.

[dch526]

From this weekend

[R1070]

Well that really sucks (for now), but I'm not very surprised.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

I told u guys it was a bait n switch. Lame. Harwood is a bunch of garages.

[itsjrd1964]

If they're not going any higher, I wonder why they needed such a high crane.

[gbud]

I am new to this process but I do have a question. Assuming they only build the parking garage, which seems very likely, is it not possible for an individual or the city to take legal action against such projects? It makes me very uncomfortable that a developer can go to the city, present a project, receive permit for that specific design, then build something else entirely; or in this case, 1/3 of what was proposed. This is seriously one of the largest parking garages I have ever seen in an urban setting, and it will only further promote vehicular traffic rather than the human-scale pedestrian traffic downtown desperately needs.

[dan.man.]

I was always under the impression that this project was going to be completed in a phased approach with the garage and retail being phase one, the hotel being phase two, and residential being phase three.

I could imagine they are trying to finalize the details of the hotel deal before they move full steam ahead with building that tower.

[Mgreen15]

Was walking near KWP this morning and noticed the “topping tree” on top of this glorified parking garage. So, yes this building has topped out.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

How can you build a residential project on a garage while the garage is in use?

The residential portion was never a real thing.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

How can you build a residential project on a garage while the garage is in use?

The residential portion was never a real thing. You honestly think they're going to start construction once Goldman's moves in? Wrong!

[itsjrd1964]

the original design was much nicer in my opinion, what do you guys think?

c8-FINAL by Around My City, on Flickr



vs

So, 2 years ago, there was at least some kind of design that included taller structures above the parking garage level, but now, a case of bait-n-switch, amnesia, less $$$ than they let on, or something.

[cowboyeagle05]

How can you build a residential project on a garage while the garage is in use?

The residential portion was never a real thing.

While I have been negative on this project from the start the residential portion is easy to do. It was always designed to come later if it ever did. The residential tower would not sit on top of the garage. It would side beside it. That side of the site will be a surface parking lot marked as temporary in above drawings a few posts back. When and if the residential tower goes forward they will enclose that side of the garage from the ground level up. This parking garage is so massive it won't be used too heavily without the residential and the hotel portions built out. Trammel Crow tower will have a huge parking ratio to market to new tenants.

[TNWE]

I am new to this process but I do have a question. Assuming they only build the parking garage, which seems very likely, is it not possible for an individual or the city to take legal action against such projects? It makes me very uncomfortable that a developer can go to the city, present a project, receive permit for that specific design, then build something else entirely; or in this case, 1/3 of what was proposed. This is seriously one of the largest parking garages I have ever seen in an urban setting, and it will only further promote vehicular traffic rather than the human-scale pedestrian traffic downtown desperately needs.

You're joking, right? Leaving aside the ridiculous idea that an individual would have standing to file suit against a developer for not completing a project, the city didn't give any tax breaks to the project, so what damages would they claim? It's not like they promised a luxury hotel and residential complex, but actually built a lead smelter.

This forum has way too many people who think signing up for an account somehow confers veto power over anything that happens in the city...

[vman]

You're joking, right? Leaving aside the ridiculous idea that an individual would have standing to file suit against a developer for not completing a project, the city didn't give any tax breaks to the project, so what damages would they claim? It's not like they promised a luxury hotel and residential complex, but actually built a lead smelter.

This forum has way too many people who think signing up for an account somehow confers veto power over anything that happens in the city...

Jeez man...GBUD just asked a question. A question definitely not worthy of such a sh***y response.

[eburress]

For real. Everybody take a deep breath...

[Kelley USA]

Why is everyone so angry on this forum?? I know what we all need, we need pizza!! As in 400 Gradi- the Australian Pizza chain that'll open it's first US location at none other than 2000 Ross!!

https://dallas.eater.com/2018/12/14/181 ... s-district

[tamtagon]

^haha word

[Tnexster]

Why is everyone so angry on this forum?? I know what we all need, we need pizza!! As in 400 Gradi- the Australian Pizza chain that'll open it's first US location at none other than 2000 Ross!!

https://dallas.eater.com/2018/12/14/181 ... s-district

Maybe we can have a forum pizza party when they open. This will be just a couple blocks from work, can't wait for all the new options along Ross.

[muncien]

Why is everyone so angry on this forum?? I know what we all need, we need pizza!! As in 400 Gradi- the Australian Pizza chain that'll open it's first US location at none other than 2000 Ross!!

https://dallas.eater.com/2018/12/14/181 ... s-district

Maybe we can have a forum pizza party when they open. This will be just a couple blocks from work, can't wait for all the new options along Ross.

But where are we all supposed to park?

[lakewoodhobo]

Why is everyone so angry on this forum?? I know what we all need, we need pizza!! As in 400 Gradi- the Australian Pizza chain that'll open it's first US location at none other than 2000 Ross!!

https://dallas.eater.com/2018/12/14/181 ... s-district

This^

[DPatel304]

Maybe we can have a forum pizza party when they open. This will be just a couple blocks from work, can't wait for all the new options along Ross.

Yes, that's a good idea. Would be nice to meet people from the forum, and it would be a good way to support local business in urban Dallas too.

[dukemeredith]

Maybe we can have a forum pizza party when they open. This will be just a couple blocks from work, can't wait for all the new options along Ross.

I’d definitely attend a forum meet up downtown

[Redblock]

A giant truck crane was set up Friday and was taking down the taller of the two tower cranes today. It will probably finish that task on Sunday.

[Mr. Mojito]

Welp


https://flic.kr/p/2cAavYh

[DPatel304]

So, are we still hopeful that we will eventually get the hotel and residential? If so, then I'm okay with the outcome. Aside from the fact that we were deceived, I don't mind large projects being done in phases like this. I suppose they can't really justify either the hotel or residential, at this point in time, so their choices were to hold off on the entire project until then, or deliver on the garage and retail portion for now.

If they had just been up front that this would be done in phases, I'd be much less annoyed at this project.

[Tnexster]

This would have been such a great addition of residential right on Ross. Hope that comes to fruition earlier than later. Thing is I would expect even high dollar residential in that spot to completely lease out in no time. It's a prime location.

[willyk]

I am hoping that success for the Hall Arts hotel and residences will validate putting hotel and residential here.

... I am also thinking that the developer’s strategy is to reinvigorate the office tower, sell it and leave the hotel and residential for the next guy. It looks like the office project will be a success. Why push your luck with two more projects that differ greatly from the office? Take the win and move on.

[tamtagon]

^I'd rather see Hall buy Spire and totally rock that real estate into an urban success story more potent than the suburban success in Frisco.

By the time Craig & Kathryn Hall retire from public life, I'm hopeful they will have established and endowed another domestically significant museum that bridges the Dallas Arts District into East Dallas and the Latino Cultural Center. Billingsley/Crow should be collaborating on the same strategy with build out of Arts Plaza.

[Redblock]

They removed the other tower crane today.

[joshua.dodd]

I wouldn't keep your hopes up too high. The current housing market is screeching to a hard slow. Even major media publications are talking about how DFW is the epicenter for a housing slowdown. I've even heard talks of a looming crash.

[tamtagon]

It's "the cycle" and no one should be surprised. The looming crash will be a slow down in North Texas, screeching to a hard slow will happen else where, what's been considered domestic-moderate since the recession will settle in Dallas as the region continues to increase in scope and scale more than almost all others.

All these massive garages dual constructed for parking and as the pedestal of high rise components will have the opportunity to deliver large scale middle income family dwellings, filling the market need currently ignored as the expensive 'luxury' highrises dominate the scene.

[muncien]

It's "the cycle" and no one should be surprised. The looming crash will be a slow down in North Texas, screeching to a hard slow will happen else where, what's been considered domestic-moderate since the recession will settle in Dallas as the region continues to increase in scope and scale more than almost all others.

All these massive garages dual constructed for parking and as the pedestal of high rise components will have the opportunity to deliver large scale middle income family dwellings, filling the market need currently ignored as the expensive 'luxury' highrises dominate the scene.

As much as I'd like to see this happen, I just don't think it's the reality we live in. Instead, yesterday's 'luxury' will become tomorrow's 'middle income' dwellings. That just seems to be how things work now. And, I guess it ain't all that bad. Considering how much 'luxury' has been built the last five years, we should have a healthy supply of middle income housing in another five years... while the next 'hip' neighborhood can take the 'luxury' crown... market allowing.

[joshua.dodd]

That is precisely what is going to happen. As of now, the luxury boom is finished. Uptown and Victory Park might see a few more developments over time, but even Uptown has had projects like the 18 story Boll Tower fall through. The current market is now in bearish territory. Big Tech has collectively lost a trillion dollars in value, with Zuckerberg alone losing 19 billion in his networth. Really, what's been driving the ultra luxury housing market, especially around the city core, has been big tech and high paying tech jobs. Even with high paying tech jobs the prices are way too high. Estimates show that the Dallas housing market is overvalued by up to 19%. With all these factors considered, it is inevitable that these luxury, overpriced apartment units will be forced to fall and inevitably become middle income dwellings. That's not a bad thing. That's actually a good thing. It will just take the developers a lot longer to pay off their debt costs incurred from building these units, and possibly eliminating a few "luxury" amenities.

[luckey]

Here's an update on the timelapse-lapse:
https://imgur.com/a/z3FcoHH

[willyk]

The new retail on both sides of the street looks like a very promising configuration. This may become the lively block that the Arts Distirct has needed. With the more affordable restaraunts here, they might even draw some foot traffic up from KWP.