Allen: Monarch City

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jrd1964
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Allen: Monarch City

Postby jrd1964 » 09 May 2018 18:54

A planned development on the SW (the article says southeast, incorrectly) corner of US 75/TX 121, was previously due to be 'Allentowne', a mall-based development that failed in the wake of the bankruptcy of General Growth, the developer. Previous to that, it was the site of Belz Outlet Mall, a project way ahead of its time and not easily accessible at the time. It eventually closed and was torn down. The site spans 240 acres and developers plan office, hotel, retail, and apartments there. No timeline is mentioned as to when any part of the development will be completed.

Another development name that could be seen as awkward or questionable, the article says Monarch City is named for the type of butterfly. Supposedly the area was at one time a favorite for the insect, according to the article.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... ake-flight

DPatel304
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Re: Allen: Monarch City

Postby DPatel304 » 09 May 2018 20:23

Looks great and all, but how many of these can the suburbs support?

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jrd1964
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Re: Allen: Monarch City

Postby jrd1964 » 09 May 2018 20:36

I hope this isn't another Wade Park. We need lots and lots more companies to move here if all the office-based developments are gonna get built and make it here.

Tnexster
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Re: Allen: Monarch City

Postby Tnexster » 09 May 2018 21:12

DPatel304 wrote:Looks great and all, but how many of these can the suburbs support?


That was my question when I saw this earlier. It looks ambitious and doesn't McKinney have something planned as well? Looks like a ton of office product.

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texasstar
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Re: Allen: Monarch City

Postby texasstar » 10 May 2018 13:24

Why do I visualize a butterfly museum when I see that name?

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The_Overdog
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Re: Allen: Monarch City

Postby The_Overdog » 10 May 2018 14:46

I just wish this was closer to Watters Creek, which I consider to be the 'best' suburban mixed use site in DFW, especially since it isn't bisected by a huge arterial like Legacy is. This is the problem with highway-adjacent developments. The cities act like it's a limited resource but it's essentially unlimited and none of them are all that close to one another so there is no synergy.

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exelone31
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Re: Allen: Monarch City

Postby exelone31 » 10 May 2018 15:34

texasstar wrote:Why do I visualize a butterfly museum when I see that name?


How about a town inhabited only by 17th century European royalty?

itsjrd1964
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Re: Allen: Monarch City

Postby itsjrd1964 » 27 Jun 2019 03:15

Allen approves huge mixed-use project on key U.S. 75 corner

Image

The city has given the go-ahead for Monarch City to commence construction. The mixed-use project, 261 acres in size, will eventually have 10 million square feet of retail, residential, hotel, and office space.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... -75-corner

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Re: Allen: Monarch City

Postby LongonBigD » 27 Jun 2019 15:44

This is an amazing proposal.

I don’t mean to rain on the parade, but that intersection is so bad already with traffic. How in the world will they add more?

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texasstar
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Re: Allen: Monarch City

Postby texasstar » 28 Jun 2019 10:20

This gives me butterflies.

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Addison
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Re: Allen: Monarch City

Postby Addison » 01 Jun 2021 18:56

Developer Billingsley lands huge Allen development site

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... ment-site/

One of North Texas’ best-known and most successful developers has landed what has to be the prime development site along U.S. Highway 75.

Billingsley Co. has bought the 238-acre southwest corner of U.S. 75 and State Highway 121 in Allen.

The vacant tract was sold by Houston-based Howard Hughes Corp., which had planned a $1 billion mixed-use project called Monarch City for the site.

Early last year, Hughes put the high-profile property up for sale. Billingsley Co., which developed the Cypress Waters and Austin Ranch projects north of Dallas, snapped the corner up.

Billingsley Co. already owns the 242 acres across the street on U.S. 75 in Fairview.

“We are thrilled about the purchase,” said developer Lucy Billingsley. “Success is assured with the growth at these two major roads.”

Before deciding to sell the property, Hughes obtained zoning from Allen for 10 million square feet of office, residential, retail and hospitality construction.

“You’ve got 4,000 multifamily units that can be built there and as much office as you can,” Billingsley said. “The timing is certainly right for it.”

Billingsley Co.’s hugely successful Cypress Waters project northwest of Dallas has offices for more than 11,000 workers and includes thousands of apartments and retail on North Lake.

Its Austin Ranch development is west of the Dallas North Tollway in Plano, Carrollton and The Colony and includes offices, apartments, residential and retail.

Attracting business tenants to the just-purchased Allen corner is going to be one of Billingsley’s focuses.

“The office building market — particularly this intersection — we think is going to be fairly significant,” said Billingsley Co. partner Lucy Burns. “It’s clearly going to be many million square feet of offices — taller and more significant than offices elsewhere on Highway 121.

“We are very excited to work with the city of Allen,” she said. “They are great partners.”

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undefinedprocess
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Re: Allen: Monarch City

Postby undefinedprocess » 02 Jun 2021 10:54

Addison wrote:Developer Billingsley lands huge Allen development site

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... ment-site/

One of North Texas’ best-known and most successful developers has landed what has to be the prime development site along U.S. Highway 75.

Billingsley Co. has bought the 238-acre southwest corner of U.S. 75 and State Highway 121 in Allen.

The vacant tract was sold by Houston-based Howard Hughes Corp., which had planned a $1 billion mixed-use project called Monarch City for the site.

Early last year, Hughes put the high-profile property up for sale. Billingsley Co., which developed the Cypress Waters and Austin Ranch projects north of Dallas, snapped the corner up.

Billingsley Co. already owns the 242 acres across the street on U.S. 75 in Fairview.

“We are thrilled about the purchase,” said developer Lucy Billingsley. “Success is assured with the growth at these two major roads.”

Before deciding to sell the property, Hughes obtained zoning from Allen for 10 million square feet of office, residential, retail and hospitality construction.

“You’ve got 4,000 multifamily units that can be built there and as much office as you can,” Billingsley said. “The timing is certainly right for it.”

Billingsley Co.’s hugely successful Cypress Waters project northwest of Dallas has offices for more than 11,000 workers and includes thousands of apartments and retail on North Lake.

Its Austin Ranch development is west of the Dallas North Tollway in Plano, Carrollton and The Colony and includes offices, apartments, residential and retail.

Attracting business tenants to the just-purchased Allen corner is going to be one of Billingsley’s focuses.

“The office building market — particularly this intersection — we think is going to be fairly significant,” said Billingsley Co. partner Lucy Burns. “It’s clearly going to be many million square feet of offices — taller and more significant than offices elsewhere on Highway 121.

“We are very excited to work with the city of Allen,” she said. “They are great partners.”

Woah...

Wonder if they'll keep the original plans for Monarch City (with their own twist & reduced office, I'd hope)...

What do y'all think?

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I45Tex
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Re: Allen: Monarch City

Postby I45Tex » 02 Jun 2021 13:03

I don't care how fast you drive on the tollway, their site is still farther (34 miles) from DFW airport arrivals than downtown Fort Worth is from downtown Dallas.

The cheap rooftops model depends on employers following, so that the windfall from initial infrastructure subsidy can be paid for by someone eventually. If the houses and apartments lose or only hold their value, they'll never be worth enough that their taxes would pay for replacing pipes and streets they require. Our state laws let developers offload the upfront cost burden in creative ways like bond-funded MUDs (Municipal Utility Districts chartered by the private for-profit entity), which makes more competition because more developers aspire to do it.

But, as for employers, there are only so many growing office tenants in this day and age, and now there is affordable flashy modern office space already standing in much more desirable business locations. People will continue to stretch the "drive to qualify" rooftops model as far as it will go, with Wall Street funds and Silicon Valley ventures both puffing up the price of housing. We could do a lot better as a culture in Texas if we ever thought about something beyond low-hanging fruit.

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Re: Allen: Monarch City

Postby undefinedprocess » 03 Jun 2021 10:04

I45Tex wrote:I don't care how fast you drive on the tollway, their site is still farther (34 miles) from DFW airport arrivals than downtown Fort Worth is from downtown Dallas.

The cheap rooftops model depends on employers following, so that the windfall from initial infrastructure subsidy can be paid for by someone eventually. If the houses and apartments lose or only hold their value, they'll never be worth enough that their taxes would pay for replacing pipes and streets they require. Our state laws let developers offload the upfront cost burden in creative ways like bond-funded MUDs (Municipal Utility Districts chartered by the private for-profit entity), which makes more competition because more developers aspire to do it.

But, as for employers, there are only so many growing office tenants in this day and age, and now there is affordable flashy modern office space already standing in much more desirable business locations. People will continue to stretch the "drive to qualify" rooftops model as far as it will go, with Wall Street funds and Silicon Valley ventures both puffing up the price of housing. We could do a lot better as a culture in Texas if we ever thought about something beyond low-hanging fruit.

Agreed. I don't understand the push for so much office space here. I can understand it to a point in the Legacy area, as there's already an established submarket there, and while the area is faux-urban, not the most pedestrian friendly, etc., there's a reason people go to the area. But out here? This is just fields.

I could understand an office building or two, but in the post I'll make separately, there's talk from Billingsley about these two sites (Monarch City & the one directly across 75 in Fairview that they own) of their vision for it. They, supposedly, see it as a sort of "Legacy East and West" setup.

The reason Legacy West even exists is due to Fehmi Karahan, same with OG Legacy. Sure, there's a lot to be desired over there, but there was a foundation and over a decade to mature. It's funny how they think they can (or at least hint at wanting to) clone that whole area over here.

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Re: Allen: Monarch City

Postby undefinedprocess » 03 Jun 2021 10:23

Monarch City DBJ Article: https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2021/06/03/local-developer.html
East side of 75 & 121 Fairview Site DMN Article: https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2019/09/17/billingsley-co-plans-major-mixed-use-development-on-u-s-75-in-fairview/

So Billingsley thinks they're going to make the next Legacy. Their words, DBJ article.

"We look at it much like Legacy East and West, where you have a huge development on one side that compliments the other," Billingsley said.


Why so much office? I don't get it. I genuinely don't. Sure, include office, because it's part of "live-work-play," but millions of square feet on EACH side?

One Bethany is just to the south, and it's right across from Watters Creek. Established.

Legacy Central is just further south on 75, established. I work in Legacy Central, just for reference. Samsung has a massive presence here. Peloton too. Transwestern. Freddie Mac coming soon. Legacy Central is supposed to add some additional retail/restaurant space, plus a hotel. There's already apartments here, and people utilize the development's beautiful landscaping to walk, ride bikes, and enjoy the outdoors. Yes, it's very suburban, but nicely done... Established.

The Farm is going up right now at SW corner of 121 & Alma. Allen Gateway will eventually be built (the development that was going to include the cricket stadium before that got shot down) on the opposite side of Alma. Collin College's technical campus (which is beautiful, by the way) sits adjacent to the Allen Gateway site. That's attractive for those two sites & the 121/Alma intersection.

Hub 121 & District 121 are in progress on the northwest and northeast corners of Alma & 121, respectively. Craig Ranch's activity is picking up as a whole, and there's already a huge number of apartments in the area, as well as corporate tenants. Independent Financial is building a second building to expand their HQ right now, and may add a 3rd.

Collin Creek is much further south on 75, yes, but that'll be attracting some tenants too, as the project is just that big (assuming it goes well).

And then all the way out at 121 & DNT, you have Plano & Frisco's mini skyline. Legacy West and its corporate presence. More construction going on right now. The original Legacy Town Center and all of the offices there. Granite Park. North side of 121, you have Hall Park, The Star, Frisco Station, Wade Park (but that's probably 2-5 years from anything happening there, sadly). Stonebriar, the Roughriders Ballpark. Proximity to Main St Frisco with Toyota Stadium, and then all that Fields & PGA Frisco will be further north on DNT.

Maybe I'm thinking too deeply on this, but what the hell are they thinking with millions and millions of square feet of office? Yes, we all know and somewhat hate the fact that suburban office is winning right now, but this just seems ignorant. Frisco & Plano alone have millions of square feet available or on the way, and there's more of a reason to be over here.

The McKinney/Allen intersection of 121/75 has nothing yet, and while I'd love to see stuff go up, why is it office? I get there's proximity to McKinney National Airport, but aside from that, you have 3 blank corners. The NE corner in McKinney has Emerson in their building right now, as well as a Sheraton, but that's it. There were/are plans for development there, but that's been pretty dormant for years and years. Sure, waiting for demand, but essentially, there's nothing.

I don't know, it's just a head-against-the-wall move/angle for me. Someone put me in my place and tell me if I'm completely missing the mark with this. Very well may be, but it seems beyond stupid to have such prime sites and seal their fate as more generic, tissue box office complexes.

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The_Overdog
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Re: Allen: Monarch City

Postby The_Overdog » 03 Jun 2021 10:37

It's how you can truly tell that cities really don't care how much office is built, since they are funded by property tax and therefore more buildings, occupied or not, cannibalize existing offices in their own city limits or not, matter more than the actual quantity of work being done there.

If it was like housing, then an excess of office space would matter, and new building would be fought NIMBY style. But it doesn't matter. Empty buildings are even better - no traffic! Doesn't even matter if the old, unoccupied ones decay a bit.

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Addison
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Re: Allen: Monarch City

Postby Addison » 03 Jun 2021 18:12

This is the school of thought when it comes to approving office space for development:

1. They will attract companies who will hire plenty of high-paying employees who will have ample disposable income to spend at local commercial establishments (unlike, say, warehouses & distribution centers).

2. They don't produce nearly as much pollution (again, unlike warehousee, distribution centers or even manufacturing plants such as the cement plants in Midlothian or the I\insulation plant in Waxahachie)

3. The multiplier of new families with children who need to attend school won't be nearly as great as it would be if a huge master-planned housing development was approved, since it's assumed a large share of the workers will be commuting in from other cities.

On top of those factors, I would like to give these developers the benefit of the doubt and think they know better than to build too much office space too soon. Just because municipalities are granting rezoning requests for the new office space doesn't mean market forces won't dictate when it's ultimately delivered.