Re: Plano: Willow Bend Mall
Posted: 02 May 2023 16:47
The traffic impact from apartments will be no worse than it was when Willow Bend was a vibrant mall.
The only real reason is demographics. The surrounding area has amongst the largest concentration of wealth in DFW aside from Park Cities and Southlake, and also a huge concentration of highly-paid office workers in the daytime.Proquest20 wrote:The only real reason why they don’t close the mall is likely that it still has all its anchors and that it doesn’t look like a dated eyesore from the outside, like Collin Creek did, aside from the theatre that was built and never opened.The_Overdog wrote:Collin Creek, when it closed, had about as many open stores as Willow Bend has now. It's always been a dying mall, like even when Apple was there, you didn't need an appointment, you could just walk in.City officials want to prevent another dead mall like Collin Creek became.
I remember when Sears closed at Collin Creek, they didn’t even turn the lights on in the main mall areas anymore.
If you remember Collin Creek, it was quite an eyesore, with the surface parking lots decomposing and with all the anchor stores being empty. That’s not really an issue at Willow Bend, even when the old Saks was still up the mall appeared healthy from the outside.Addison wrote:The only real reason is demographics. The surrounding area has amongst the largest concentration of wealth in DFW aside from Park Cities and Southlake, and also a huge concentrarion of highly-paid office workers in the daytime.Proquest20 wrote:The only real reason why they don’t close the mall is likely that it still has all its anchors and that it doesn’t look like a dated eyesore from the outside, like Collin Creek did, aside from the theatre that was built and never opened.The_Overdog wrote: Collin Creek, when it closed, had about as many open stores as Willow Bend has now. It's always been a dying mall, like even when Apple was there, you didn't need an appointment, you could just walk in.
I remember when Sears closed at Collin Creek, they didn’t even turn the lights on in the main mall areas anymore.
The area around Collin Creek has traditionally been more working/middle class (thus less buying power).
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Completely agree with that. I'd go farther and say I remember Collin Creek in the 90's and 2000s, and it was always an extremely ugly eyesore. The parking lots even when it was full were way oversized, and the random lumpiness of them due to the elevation changes, coupled with the 'down in a hole' feeling driving up from every direction made it look dreadful. The sidewalks around half-way complete allowing no connection to the neighborhood, and the entryways just empty randomly mowed fields, and those drainage tunnels done as cheaply as possible. From a design perspective, always terrible.If you remember Collin Creek, it was quite an eyesore, with the surface parking lots decomposing and with all the anchor stores being empty. That’s not really an issue at Willow Bend, even when the old Saks was still up the mall appeared healthy from the outside.
What brings me to the mall more than anything is having Crate & Barrel, RH, Z Gallerie, and Mitchel Gold & Bob Williams all in the same place. Mexican Bar Co. and Knife are really good too, still need to try Terra, considering I’ve heard great things about it.Casa Linda wrote:NTPA is the best thing about the mall.
Increasingly, the Galleria's tenants and management need to be having a similar "Come to Jesus"Proquest20 wrote:https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ret ... utType=amp
Wow. So essentially the stores that do well only bring in traffic through events, rather than relying on the mall’s foot traffic. Some businesses are down to one or two employees. Destination stores such as the furniture stores and Neiman’s do well as people will come to Willow Bend specifically for them.
The Galleria will continue to limp along as long as they continue to have strong holiday seasons and mixed use developments. Some of the new additions to the mail are huge, like the Louis Vuitton expansion and the addition of North Italia. Willow Bend, on the contrary, bleeds out big name tenants while adding local ones that typically last four months at most.Addison wrote:Increasingly, the Galleria's tenants and management need to be having a similar "Come to Jesus"Proquest20 wrote:https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ret ... utType=amp
Wow. So essentially the stores that do well only bring in traffic through events, rather than relying on the mall’s foot traffic. Some businesses are down to one or two employees. Destination stores such as the furniture stores and Neiman’s do well as people will come to Willow Bend specifically for them.
Feel like i used to see and hear a lot of advertisements for Crayola in Willow Bend, but don’t anymore. Willow Bend desperately needs hotel/office space, as well as attractions with a much broader appeal, in order to survive.Casa Linda wrote:Local residents I know 100% support this change. Either this, or the mall will die. Half of it needs to go.
I visit Willow Bend quite often as we're super involved with North Texas Performing Arts. Everyone should go! https://ntpa.org/
We have every opportunity to shop there a lot, but don't. The parking garages are great. Crate and Barrel and the full size restaurants get our business, esp CPK, and Milk Bubbles (hah). Used to go to the surfing place, but that's about it. I/we don't like long malls that take forever to walk. North Park is awesome due to the loop, events, layout, parking (to some extent I used to like the circles of Town East / Valley View).
Stonebriar has evolved by adding hotel, library branch, many restaurants around it, has a theater, Kidzania, (very limited clientele- only went once), D&B, and so on. It's a destination.
Willow Bend opened without a food court or theater, and was just a "fashion mall" in the beginning. That's not enough to survive and was destined to fail. There's a lot of money in that area, but too many older people that don't go to malls a lot. WB needs to cater more to families. At least it smells good.
I actually saw a billboard for the Crayola Experience the other day headed south on DNT, just past PGBT.Proquest20 wrote:Feel like i used to see and hear a lot of advertisements for Crayola in Willow Bend, but don’t anymore. Willow Bend desperately needs hotel/office space, as well as attractions with a much broader appeal, in order to survive.Casa Linda wrote:Local residents I know 100% support this change. Either this, or the mall will die. Half of it needs to go.
I visit Willow Bend quite often as we're super involved with North Texas Performing Arts. Everyone should go! https://ntpa.org/
We have every opportunity to shop there a lot, but don't. The parking garages are great. Crate and Barrel and the full size restaurants get our business, esp CPK, and Milk Bubbles (hah). Used to go to the surfing place, but that's about it. I/we don't like long malls that take forever to walk. North Park is awesome due to the loop, events, layout, parking (to some extent I used to like the circles of Town East / Valley View).
Stonebriar has evolved by adding hotel, library branch, many restaurants around it, has a theater, Kidzania, (very limited clientele- only went once), D&B, and so on. It's a destination.
Willow Bend opened without a food court or theater, and was just a "fashion mall" in the beginning. That's not enough to survive and was destined to fail. There's a lot of money in that area, but too many older people that don't go to malls a lot. WB needs to cater more to families. At least it smells good.
Neimans has a lot of power over the mall since they own their building. The “rent” is basically for the land and to be a featured marquee for the shopping center. Neimans is arguably the most successful tenant there so management should proceed with caution when it comes to rent. I could very well see Neimans relocating in the future to Southlake, PGA, or even Stonebriar at the former Sears. Neimans still does well, so it’s clear they’re not in a rush and it still gives willowbend some degree of cache…not much but some. I think if the redevelopment plans come to fruition then Neimans would stay and maybe attract more tenants. I think the mall should focus more on ammenities or restaurants at this point. There’s plenty of shopping in Dallas.acclar11 wrote:Was just talking to my friend who worked on management level for Vineyard Vines. He said that the WB location got to skip out on rent, and so did Anthropologie. Neimans also got/gets to skip rent payments occasionally to keep some sort of steady traffic.
This was also the worst preforming VV in the chain.
I hope they can maybe build a smaller footprint store like the Fort Worth one at the Shops at Legacy or Legacy West. Maybe even Grandscape could be a good location as well as they already have Scheels and not a higher fashion anchor.luxeshop97 wrote:Neimans has a lot of power over the mall since they own their building. The “rent” is basically for the land and to be a featured marquee for the shopping center. Neimans is arguably the most successful tenant there so management should proceed with caution when it comes to rent. I could very well see Neimans relocating in the future to Southlake, PGA, or even Stonebriar at the former Sears. Neimans still does well, so it’s clear they’re not in a rush and it still gives willowbend some degree of cache…not much but some. I think if the redevelopment plans come to fruition then Neimans would stay and maybe attract more tenants. I think the mall should focus more on ammenities or restaurants at this point. There’s plenty of shopping in Dallas.acclar11 wrote:Was just talking to my friend who worked on management level for Vineyard Vines. He said that the WB location got to skip out on rent, and so did Anthropologie. Neimans also got/gets to skip rent payments occasionally to keep some sort of steady traffic.
This was also the worst preforming VV in the chain.
The only stores doing well are the destination stores (RH/C&B/MG&BW/NM), and if they don’t pay rent it doesn’t really matter because they only need a few sales to hit their goals. But really they need to tear down the north part of the outdoor mall and build attractions with general appeal. There’s enough dining options in Plano as well so I doubt the District will gain more traction.acclar11 wrote:Was just talking to my friend who worked on management level for Vineyard Vines. He said that the WB location got to skip out on rent, and so did Anthropologie. Neimans also got/gets to skip rent payments occasionally to keep some sort of steady traffic.
This was also the worst preforming VV in the chain.
I can get behind this. Adding residential to the District and making it a true core to the mall rather than just a row of restaurants is a true necessity, and luckily it's less than half leased so they can do this with minimal impact. I like that, from what I see, there's also a main road that wraps around the district, unlike how now there's just a weird parking lot behind the empty spaces on the Knife side. Would be nice to replace those surface lots with more residential or a hotel. There's a parking garage on the other side of the district so utilize the space that's left over.Tnexster wrote:Check out new drawings of Plano’s Shops at Willow Bend massive mall redevelopment
Architect drawings display an open-air section on the north side surrounding Dillard’s, updated restaurant row and a high-rise hotel.
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ret ... velopment/
Not a bad change as long as they still bring entertainment to the rest of the center somehow - although hopefully with broader appeal. Crayola definitely should've been at Grapevine Mills or another mall like North East or Parks considering it feels awkwardly placed at Willow Bend.IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:Goodbye unopened movie theater space, we hardly knew ye.
Also looks like the Crayola Experience is getting the axe... Whole building is gone.
Being one of the better performing things in Willow Bend I think it could be argued it's everything else that is awkwardly placedProquest20 wrote: Not a bad change as long as they still bring entertainment to the rest of the center somehow - although hopefully with broader appeal. Crayola definitely should've been at Grapevine Mills or another mall like North East or Parks considering it feels awkwardly placed at Willow Bend.
This is where the Crayola building currently sits.The_Overdog wrote:Where are the images that show the southwest side of the mall is being demolished (where Crayola Factory is)? Looks to me like the parking garage behind the restaurant thing, the blank lot in front of it, and the Dillards are the primary things changing. All of that is on the north east side.
If these things are subject to change then maybe nothing will end up happening to Crayola as there's already inconsistencies between the rendering and the site plan. Being one of the better performing things at the center I doubt they'd kick Crayola out, so if Crayola left it would likely be on their own terms. That end of the mall has most of the "family shopping" with Rebel and H&M there, so I think that Crayola/Macy's Court needs to be leased with more family shopping that leads people into the rest of the mall - as of right now that court is very empty.IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:This is where the Crayola building currently sits.The_Overdog wrote:Where are the images that show the southwest side of the mall is being demolished (where Crayola Factory is)? Looks to me like the parking garage behind the restaurant thing, the blank lot in front of it, and the Dillards are the primary things changing. All of that is on the north east side.
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That’s such a great space too and one of the few businesses there doing good business. I really hope they have a good plan for it.Kelley USA wrote:Another blow for Willow Bend...
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ret ... -abruptly/
Perhaps Swarovski, L'Occitane, Brooks Brothers, and J. Jill will all move there or Legacy West soon. Willow Bend is a flea market these days.Theluistorres wrote:Lovesac in willow bend will be relocating to Shops at legacy according to the Shops at Legacy website
Willow Bend’s store selection is just really unlucky, but I don’t see management really making short term plans. Nothing will be there by 2025.nth016 wrote:https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ret ... -business/
Looks like they could also be losing the Z Gallerie store in their near future too...
Where do you find the rezoning documents? Community outreach is probably what they’re doing now with all the family events, they’ve also been getting local influencers to come and try to make the mall seem nice but they for the most part just show off Neiman Marcus lol. At least this Neimans is actually a really good one. It’s like they know it’s the only reason for people to come to the mall aside from the restaurants, RH and Crate and Barrel.The_Overdog wrote:The first rezoning documents are tabled to Jan 16, but they don't say much other than more 'community outreach'. But that does mean it is moving forward at a relatively brisk pace.