Legacy West

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tamtagon
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Re: Legacy West

Postby tamtagon » 15 Oct 2021 13:23

ZaZa, Crescent, Mansion, Ritz, Omni are likely candidates for Legacy.

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THRILLHO
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Re: Legacy West

Postby THRILLHO » 15 Oct 2021 13:24

The deck park previously proposed wasn't much better than the typical unused gardens you find in office campuses. It's probably best they went with a basic decorative pathway for now if it leaves open the possibility for a larger park in the future. With how hostile the pedestrian experience is on the highway-facing sides of both legacies, a deck park needs to be a destination in its own right if it wants to act as an appealing connective bridge.

While we're at it, traffic along legacy really needs to be slowed. It's a bummer how wide they initially planned it. The extra driveways along legacy for parking around legacy east is such a waste.

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vman
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Re: Legacy West

Postby vman » 15 Oct 2021 13:30

THRILLHO wrote:
While we're at it, traffic along legacy really needs to be slowed. It's a bummer how wide they initially planned it. The extra driveways along legacy for parking around legacy east is such a waste.

So true. Sitting in my car, watching someone cross Legacy from one side of The Shops at Legacy to the other is uncomfortable for the both of us.

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undefinedprocess
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Re: Legacy West

Postby undefinedprocess » 18 Oct 2021 09:31

vman wrote:
undefinedprocess wrote:
vman wrote:^^^
especially since it seems the previously approved deck park will never happen.

That's a shame because if any area would greatly benefit from a deck park, this is it.

Speaking of parks...is that some sort of park on the north end of Headquarters between the highrise apartment tower and the midrise one? I only drive by it on my way to work and it's always still dark , so I've never seen it in the light.

That park is a private park for the residents of Windrose Tower and LVL29 only. Would rather shops/another tower go there, but hey, a private park? That's a cool amenity lol.

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undefinedprocess
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Re: Legacy West

Postby undefinedprocess » 18 Oct 2021 09:33

THRILLHO wrote:The deck park previously proposed wasn't much better than the typical unused gardens you find in office campuses. It's probably best they went with a basic decorative pathway for now if it leaves open the possibility for a larger park in the future. With how hostile the pedestrian experience is on the highway-facing sides of both legacies, a deck park needs to be a destination in its own right if it wants to act as an appealing connective bridge.

While we're at it, traffic along legacy really needs to be slowed. It's a bummer how wide they initially planned it. The extra driveways along legacy for parking around legacy east is such a waste.

I agree, it was pretty basic, which sucks, but I'm hopeful that one day, it'll happen and the design will be improved. I still wonder how much it'd be used considering Legacy West's parking garages cut off everything... If I had SimCity abilities, I'd demolish those parking garages, build maybe one slightly taller one with a tower on top, and then put the rest underground. Those parking garages coming down + a deck park would really transform the area and its feel. Same with OG Shops at Legacy side.

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Re: Legacy West

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 18 Oct 2021 16:53

Well it is Plano and this development is a walled garden not a real walkable urban neighborhood. Legacy East was done much much better in terms of walkable neighborhoods with calming roads, retail and office space with parks. Legacy West is a strip center for luxury goods facing one street with a rush of semi-urban but mostly suburban office complexes and a few residents thrown in to check the box. Overall Legacy pays lip service to new age urbanity but rarely pays any attention to any of the rules. It will be a success for the time being because its trendy and new. Call me in 30, 50 and 75 yrs and we will see if the decisions made now affect the long term viability or if it becomes the next generations Willow Bend. It honesty could go either way. Victory looked great when it opened to and it had to be fixed and is still trying to be something.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

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Addison
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Re: Legacy West

Postby Addison » 18 Oct 2021 20:45

A cap over the Tollway would go a long way to address Legacy's "deficiencies."

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Re: Legacy West

Postby undefinedprocess » 19 Oct 2021 10:42

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Well it is Plano and this development is a walled garden not a real walkable urban neighborhood. Legacy East was done much much better in terms of walkable neighborhoods with calming roads, retail and office space with parks. Legacy West is a strip center for luxury goods facing one street with a rush of semi-urban but mostly suburban office complexes and a few residents thrown in to check the box. Overall Legacy pays lip service to new age urbanity but rarely pays any attention to any of the rules. It will be a success for the time being because its trendy and new. Call me in 30, 50 and 75 yrs and we will see if the decisions made now affect the long term viability or if it becomes the next generations Willow Bend. It honesty could go either way. Victory looked great when it opened to and it had to be fixed and is still trying to be something.

Oh yeah, I completely agree with you. I think it's a great start and I think there were a few decisions that were made that have helped sustain it & accelerate its growth and popularity, but yeah, it is faux-urban, that's for sure. But with that being said, I believe that with some relatively "simple" (not saying they're easy or cheap) changes, it could really progress towards being more authentically urban.

I will say, though, the trendiness and the weight of the name "Legacy West" for the general population... It's impressive. People from all around DFW come up to West Plano just to flex. It's pretty wild to see.

Anyways, I feel that none of the West Plano/Frisco/DNT corridor projects can truly become "urban" unless developers/property owners work together to connect all of them so they are less of "urban islands," and more like smaller districts in a large fabric/core.

That's a whole different conversation, so I'm not diving into that. Just saying that I agree with you, but I think Legacy as a whole is far from doomed, at least right now. And if I'm being honest, the hype/energy has far exceeded/outlived what I thought it'd be. We're nearly 5 years into Legacy West being fully open, and I'd have figured it would've died off a bit by now, but it seems to be continuing to rise in popularity, especially as new retailers move in.

Addison wrote:A cap over the Tollway would go a long way to address Legacy's "deficiencies."

Definitely. Aside from the walled-garden effect of Legacy West (hate those parking garages), the Tollway is the biggest issue in the area. Capping it would help connect Granite Park, Legacy Town Center/Shops at Legacy, Legacy West, and any other future developments that spawn around DNT/121. To be honest, dropping SRT/121 below grade and capping it in a place or two (not sure exactly where) would be interesting to see as well.

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Re: Legacy West

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 19 Oct 2021 15:13

Yeah urban islands is prolific in our current cycle of urban developments. The key point is most developers don't want their developments to be integrated into some larger puzzle. Each developer wants a walled garden and that's not gonna change cause its how developers like to build. They don't want their investment helping other properties when it comes down to it.

I do not think Legacy West is doomed either and I agree its rapid and sustained some sort of lightning rod for half a decade for sure. I will look forward to seeing how over time its popularity maintains.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

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The_Overdog
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Re: Legacy West

Postby The_Overdog » 19 Oct 2021 15:29

The key point is most developers don't want their developments to be integrated into some larger puzzle.


I'm not sure I agree with that, other than with the caveat that specifically Legacy West didn't want to be associated with Drein Capital Partners JC Penny Project, which in retrospect was a good idea because it was rejected by the city council and now is bankrupt and without a plan.

But generally, huge setbacks from existing developments are required as per city code. The developers are the ones asking for those setbacks to be more limited, but they can only do so much via special zoning requests.

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Re: Legacy West

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 19 Oct 2021 17:56

Setbacks are one thing sure but they aren't what I am talking about. You can have development facing the street or other development in a thoughtful way with sidewalks and trees and connectivity to other tracts even with large setbacks. After all we need more public space anyway and even lawns in a more urban designed context could function better than our suburban front lawn history of the rest of suburbia.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

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Re: Legacy West

Postby LongonBigD » 08 Dec 2021 16:22

Back in October, DMN reported that Ryan LLC was relocating its headquarters from the Galleria area to Legacy West. They propose two towers at the SW corner of DNT and SRT, one 24 floors and one 10 floors. Someone asked at the time if that was the last plot to be developed there. I said that I thought there was one more lot which primarily fronts DNT access road (north of Liberty Mutual and immediately east of Ryan LLC new buildings).

Now that lot is spoken for:
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/jobs/2021/11/24/last-large-building-site-in-planos-legacy-west-changes-hands/

"KDC has purchased the largest remaining Legacy West building site not already earmarked for development."

"The 10-acre block is near the southwest corner of the Dallas North Tollway and State Highway 121, north of Liberty Mutual Insurance’s high-rise campus. The property has been owned by the partnership that started in 2014 to develop the 250 acres surrounding J.C. Penney’s old headquarters campus in West Plano. Since then, partners Karahan Cos., Columbus Realty and developer KDC have built what’s considered the most successful mixed-use development in North Texas, if not the entire state."

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Re: Legacy West

Postby undefinedprocess » 05 Apr 2022 15:48

Based on the TDLR TABS information, it looks like Lucid's showroom in Legacy West could be starting renovations in the old Barnes & Noble Kitchen space on April 23rd.

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Re: Legacy West

Postby Tnexster » 05 May 2022 14:14

New tower is set to start in Plano’s $3 billion Legacy West
The high-rise on S.H. 121 will house offices for Dallas’ Ryan LLC.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... gacy-west/

Image

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IcedCowboyCoffee
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Re: Legacy West

Postby IcedCowboyCoffee » 05 May 2022 14:30

Incredible speedrun attempt for the blandest skyline in the country.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Legacy West

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 08 May 2022 14:13

IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:Incredible speedrun attempt for the blandest skyline in the country.

Look I don't make up rules... But just to reiterate...

Suburbs can't have Skylines (Plano), that's just called sprawl...

Cities can't have more than 1 Downtown (Houston), that's just called sprawl..

Suburban development near highways/toll roads cannot and should not be considered "Urban" (Frisco), that's just psuedo-urbanism...

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Dragon_Lady
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Re: Legacy West

Postby Dragon_Lady » 09 May 2022 15:46

Not just bland but straight up ugly. Our architecture, in some sense, reflects nihilism if not some vague utilitarianism benefiting the current developer/architectural zeitgeist.

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CTroyMathis
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Re: Legacy West

Postby CTroyMathis » 09 May 2022 15:54

CityLine entering the chat.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Legacy West

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 09 May 2022 19:10

Dragon_Lady wrote:Not just bland but straight up ugly. Our architecture, in some sense, reflects nihilism if not some vague utilitarianism benefiting the current developer/architectural zeitgeist.

Are these Mars Volta lyrics? WTF does this mean? Lol :D

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Re: Legacy West

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 12 May 2022 12:37

Checking my Architecture textbooks now for translations.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

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dgutz444
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Re: Legacy West

Postby dgutz444 » 24 May 2022 10:35

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:Incredible speedrun attempt for the blandest skyline in the country.

Look I don't make up rules... But just to reiterate...

Suburbs can't have Skylines (Plano), that's just called sprawl...

Cities can't have more than 1 Downtown (Houston), that's just called sprawl..

Suburban development near highways/toll roads cannot and should not be considered "Urban" (Frisco), that's just psuedo-urbanism...


Everything you said is wrong lol

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Re: Legacy West

Postby texasstar » 12 Jun 2022 22:22

Image

Image

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I45Tex
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Re: Legacy West

Postby I45Tex » 25 Jun 2022 13:41

The Ryan building’s tower crane is permitted to go up anytime after July 15.

https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 554&row=18

The building’s permanent height will be 333 feet.
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 6397&row=0

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undefinedprocess
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Re: Legacy West

Postby undefinedprocess » 28 Jun 2022 22:33

Yep, saw that. Looks like it'll be just shy of LVL 29. The tower canyoning of DNT continues...

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Tucy
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Re: Legacy West

Postby Tucy » 13 Jul 2022 10:24

Windrose Tower is the still the sales champion among DFW high-rises.

74 sales in 31 months of sales. 2.39 per month. 12 remaining.

Sellout projection at this pace of sales: 3 years, 1 month.

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Re: Legacy West

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 13 Jul 2022 13:39

DO we have any comparison on the types of sales these are? I know it seemed like many of Museum Tower was international buyers who weren't exactly living in them but is this project seeing more actual living buyers, or is this another real estate investment by lots of people betting on Legacy's longer-term value.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

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Re: Legacy West

Postby undefinedprocess » 02 Aug 2022 23:16

cowboyeagle05 wrote:DO we have any comparison on the types of sales these are? I know it seemed like many of Museum Tower was international buyers who weren't exactly living in them but is this project seeing more actual living buyers, or is this another real estate investment by lots of people betting on Legacy's longer-term value.

Anecdotal, but I can definitely attest to a higher percentage of Windrose Tower's units appearing as/being lived-in (seeing people on balconies at all hours, lights on, etc.). Museum Tower could have the same number of "lived in" units, but obviously, two completely different sized buildings here, hence my anecdotal evidence for a higher percentage.

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Re: Legacy West

Postby undefinedprocess » 02 Aug 2022 23:18

Ryan office-tower tower-cranes (say that 3 times fast) have been up for a week or so.
IMG_5387.jpeg
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Re: Legacy West

Postby R1070 » 10 Aug 2022 13:58

Golden Goose is listed on the directory in the new luxury building.