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Las Colinas/North Irving Development

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Kelley USA
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Kelley USA » 10 Feb 2020 12:31

And another article from the DBJ... I have to say though, $285 million for 2.3 million sf of new space seems really cheap. The Pioneer building is 1 million sf and just sold for $500+ million.

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... s_headline

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bachmanlad
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby bachmanlad » 12 Feb 2020 08:14

Hidden Ridge Station is finally rolling. Apparently the city of Irving had agreed to fund it. That must have been the reason for the delay.

https://communityimpact.com/dallas-fort ... -december/

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muncien
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby muncien » 12 Feb 2020 09:08

bachmanlad wrote:Hidden Ridge Station is finally rolling. Apparently the city of Irving had agreed to fund it. That must have been the reason for the delay.

https://communityimpact.com/dallas-fort ... -december/


Hmm... I thought this station was supposed to be funded by the developer in concession for zoning changes... ? Or, was it that the city agreed to fund it in lieu of other incentives?
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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TNWE
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby TNWE » 12 Feb 2020 09:44

bachmanlad wrote:Hidden Ridge Station is finally rolling. Apparently the city of Irving had agreed to fund it. That must have been the reason for the delay.

https://communityimpact.com/dallas-fort ... -december/


There was some discussion in the DART thread about it - the construction costs came in higher than estimated, and Irving needed some extra time to get the cash together.

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Kelley USA
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Kelley USA » 12 Feb 2020 09:47

muncien wrote:
bachmanlad wrote:Hidden Ridge Station is finally rolling. Apparently the city of Irving had agreed to fund it. That must have been the reason for the delay.

https://communityimpact.com/dallas-fort ... -december/


Hmm... I thought this station was supposed to be funded by the developer in concession for zoning changes... ? Or, was it that the city agreed to fund it in lieu of other incentives?


So the City of Irving is paying about $4.5 million and DART will be responsible for $8.8 million. DART will be reimbursed through a CMAQ Grant. The construction of the station is set to coincide with the new 2 million sf of office / retail that Verizon is suppose to start this Summer. Verizon will also receive $24 million in incentives from the City. Station should be completed in October and ready to go in December. Hidden Ridge is about to go gangbusters!

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muncien
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby muncien » 12 Feb 2020 10:20

TNWE wrote:
bachmanlad wrote:Hidden Ridge Station is finally rolling. Apparently the city of Irving had agreed to fund it. That must have been the reason for the delay.

https://communityimpact.com/dallas-fort ... -december/


There was some discussion in the DART thread about it - the construction costs came in higher than estimated, and Irving needed some extra time to get the cash together.


The estimate for this station is totally ridiculous when you consider that the foundations and footings for the station were built with the original line, and the original steel was already procured. Does this have something to do with the rusting heap of metal next to the track split by Bachman station? Did DART's inability to shelter that steel make it unusable and contribute to the cost increase?
For years I have been staring at that pile of rusting steel and it was eating away at me as to why DART projects cost so much... This seems to be a great example. :x
Don't get me wrong... I'm really glad we are finally getting this station. But, it just infuriates me how wasteful people are with other peoples money.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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CTroyMathis
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby CTroyMathis » 12 Feb 2020 10:26

Maybe they'll spell the Convention Center Station correctly on the next map update at stations on the backside of ticket machines. Hopefully they don't write Hidden Valley Ranch station, though. . .

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TNWE
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby TNWE » 12 Feb 2020 14:51

muncien wrote:
TNWE wrote:
bachmanlad wrote:Hidden Ridge Station is finally rolling. Apparently the city of Irving had agreed to fund it. That must have been the reason for the delay.

https://communityimpact.com/dallas-fort ... -december/


There was some discussion in the DART thread about it - the construction costs came in higher than estimated, and Irving needed some extra time to get the cash together.


The estimate for this station is totally ridiculous when you consider that the foundations and footings for the station were built with the original line, and the original steel was already procured. Does this have something to do with the rusting heap of metal next to the track split by Bachman station? Did DART's inability to shelter that steel make it unusable and contribute to the cost increase?
For years I have been staring at that pile of rusting steel and it was eating away at me as to why DART projects cost so much... This seems to be a great example. :x
Don't get me wrong... I'm really glad we are finally getting this station. But, it just infuriates me how wasteful people are with other peoples money.


Based on my admittedly limited experience working in government contracting, my guess is things went something like this:
- the steel was procured well before the stations were deferred, and initial budgets for constructing the Irving extension stations were based on getting a certain percentage volume discount on materials for buying 7 stations worth of materials instead of 5
- when the stations were deferred, they booked the entire cost of those stations as "savings" to get the final EIS approval and rating, even though they've already bought and paid for the materials
- someone noticed the extra material lying around exposed to the elements, and suggested it be covered or moved to a shed, but was told there was no budget because the EIS didn't include a gold-plated materials storage shed
- the deferred station gets approved 5 years later, someone goes to look at the materials only to find they're rusted beyond repair
- DART goes back to Irving with the collection plate and says "sorry, you need to pay up if you want your station - the steel we bought 7 years ago is no good"

Note that this is on top of what Irving already paid in to reroute the Orange line alignment through the Urban Center (because DART originally wanted to run it past the liquor stores and shooting range on NW Highway). Meanwhile, Dallas gets to call the shots on the D2 alignment, paid nothing towards the Lake Highlands Infill station (as far as I can tell), and is running up the price of the Silver Line by demanding extensive "betterments" for malcontent homeowners.

If we ever get the opportunity to reform/reauthorize DART, priority #1 should be requiring a 50/50 DART/City split of the local share of costs for all capital construction within each city. That way they can hold each other accountable for capital spending, and probably open the door to more TOD as cities are incentivized to get more out of the rail lines serving their cities.

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northsouth
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby northsouth » 12 Feb 2020 22:48

muncien wrote:
TNWE wrote:
bachmanlad wrote:Hidden Ridge Station is finally rolling. Apparently the city of Irving had agreed to fund it. That must have been the reason for the delay.

https://communityimpact.com/dallas-fort ... -december/


There was some discussion in the DART thread about it - the construction costs came in higher than estimated, and Irving needed some extra time to get the cash together.


The estimate for this station is totally ridiculous when you consider that the foundations and footings for the station were built with the original line, and the original steel was already procured. Does this have something to do with the rusting heap of metal next to the track split by Bachman station? Did DART's inability to shelter that steel make it unusable and contribute to the cost increase?
For years I have been staring at that pile of rusting steel and it was eating away at me as to why DART projects cost so much... This seems to be a great example. :x
Don't get me wrong... I'm really glad we are finally getting this station. But, it just infuriates me how wasteful people are with other peoples money.


Aside from the metal sitting outside for years, there's an issue of station design. The old renderings from before it was deferred showed the station as having barrel-vaulted canopies, like North Lake College or Irving Convention Center stations nearby. However, if they were to use those parts now, construction would require extended shutdown of trains to allow for placement of the canopies over the tracks and overhead wires, something that would not be an issue if the station was built before the line opened. Switching to small canopies would prevent this; thus why they were used at Lake Highlands. I haven't seen any new renderings of the station, but I have to imagine they won't be using the old parts.

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bachmanlad
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby bachmanlad » 13 Feb 2020 10:25

northsouth wrote:Switching to small canopies would prevent this; thus why they were used at Lake Highlands. I haven't seen any new renderings of the station, but I have to imagine they won't be using the old parts.

That's for the best anyway. The barrel canopies are awful. They're so high they provide little protection from the elements, and they leak like nobody's business.

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TNWE
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby TNWE » 13 Feb 2020 11:23

northsouth wrote:
muncien wrote:
TNWE wrote:
There was some discussion in the DART thread about it - the construction costs came in higher than estimated, and Irving needed some extra time to get the cash together.


The estimate for this station is totally ridiculous when you consider that the foundations and footings for the station were built with the original line, and the original steel was already procured. Does this have something to do with the rusting heap of metal next to the track split by Bachman station? Did DART's inability to shelter that steel make it unusable and contribute to the cost increase?
For years I have been staring at that pile of rusting steel and it was eating away at me as to why DART projects cost so much... This seems to be a great example. :x
Don't get me wrong... I'm really glad we are finally getting this station. But, it just infuriates me how wasteful people are with other peoples money.


Aside from the metal sitting outside for years, there's an issue of station design. The old renderings from before it was deferred showed the station as having barrel-vaulted canopies, like North Lake College or Irving Convention Center stations nearby. However, if they were to use those parts now, construction would require extended shutdown of trains to allow for placement of the canopies over the tracks and overhead wires, something that would not be an issue if the station was built before the line opened. Switching to small canopies would prevent this; thus why they were used at Lake Highlands. I haven't seen any new renderings of the station, but I have to imagine they won't be using the old parts.



Good point - I've not been through Lake Highlands station and expected they'd close the Orange line on weekends as needed to accommodate overhead construction.

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muncien
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby muncien » 13 Feb 2020 12:12

I remember getting on Metra trains in Chicagoland and thinking the beauty of simplicity in their stations. DART has always over engineered everything, and as such it's costs dwarf those of other transit systems. Even with this particular station redesign, the costs are still through the roof.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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Jandair
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Jandair » 13 Feb 2020 13:02

On another subject... Looks like this project is kicking into high gear.

https://www.perotdevelopment.com/dfw-park-161/

While it is technically DFW Airport property, Las Colinas is wrapped around it... The Orange line goes through this property also, so could drive an increase in DART riders.

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Jandair
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Jandair » 13 Feb 2020 13:14

For some reason that link is not working...

https://www.perotdevelopment.com/

Try this one and then look at - DFW Park 161

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TNWE
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby TNWE » 13 Feb 2020 13:17

muncien wrote:I remember getting on Metra trains in Chicagoland and thinking the beauty of simplicity in their stations. DART has always over engineered everything, and as such it's costs dwarf those of other transit systems. Even with this particular station redesign, the costs are still through the roof.


The South San Francisco Caltrain "platform" is basically a yellow-painted section of pavement next to the tracks under a bridge. That of course means it's not ADA-compliant, and doesn't have to be until and unless they rebuild or expand it, unlike any new-build DART station that has to be. I'd bet at least some of the outlying Metra stations are the same way.

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Kelley USA
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Kelley USA » 16 Feb 2020 18:08

Pacific Table is now open at Water Street... Went by on Friday night and it was packed (of course it was Valentine's Day), but they were booked solid. Place looks great! On another note, Big Little Market at Water Street closed down over the weekend. Cute little place but their selection was really weird. I went in a few times and didn't really see anything I'd actually purchase.

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CTroyMathis
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby CTroyMathis » 17 Feb 2020 08:30

Guarantee some Metra stations aren't or weren't in the mid-2000s.

I can attest Metra UP North line was pretty solid though. At least in my own observations between Waukegan and northside - Rogers Park. Great Lakes station was actually a nice sight to see daily.

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TXGunLover
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby TXGunLover » 20 Feb 2020 08:28

Still surprised at how few details are available regarding Project Blue Star. They have done a lot of ground work however...

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Kelley USA
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Kelley USA » 20 Feb 2020 09:18

TXGunLover wrote:Still surprised at how few details are available regarding Project Blue Star. They have done a lot of ground work however...


From what I have heard Northland is hoping to break ground on the 2 hotels sometime this Summer. I haven't seen much movement on the retail front. I know no permits have been pulled yet for that portion. It's only 35K sf, so not much to speak of. It's been rumored that Meso Maya and Starbucks are expected to be tenants, but you know how that goes! The office portion will probably be the last thing to get going, if it gets off the ground at all...

I'm actually more excited to see what comes of the Hidden Ridge project and what Verizon has planned with their upcoming 2 million sf project.

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Jandair
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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby Jandair » 20 Feb 2020 11:04

My friends at Verizon tell me the new Hidden Ridge development will be a technology showcase and will highlight all of the abilities of 5G services... I am interested to see what that really means.

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Re: Las Colinas/North Irving Development

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 21 Feb 2020 09:42

Well AT&T keeps touting the same about their new Discovery District so it seems we have a pretty good battle going on for who can make the most exciting campus demo of 5G. I mean besides claiming everything is streaming across 5G what can they do?

I assume the dream depending on how realistic it really is would be the idea that wireless for 99% of internet needs including everything from fridges, microwaves, watches, etc and only the hardcore customer would get a hard line into their home. This means the signal would have to have improved ability to pass through walls no matter their material. I know part of the reason they switched everyone to Digital TV signals from Analog years ago was to free up more spectrum for uses like this, that and to sell people new TV's.


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