Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Posted: **08 Feb 2021 17:16**

Thing is, a growing population of people who aren't in the workforce (retirees, in the case of Florida and Arizona) is not sustainable growth. Phoenix and Miami's office markets are a fraction per capita of ours because more of the job growth is in services/tourism. Exodus from SoCal and Chicagoland, in Arizona's case, and from Chicago and NYC in Florida's, are Phoenix and Miami's best chance to get some primary industries and employers to start moving there for real. Unless there are even more people willing to buy out these retirees' homes at more than they're paying for them right now (and the demographics make that extremely unlikely -- Baby Boomers currently have more net worth than all other generations ahead of and behind them combined), the housing prices will drop just as the maintenance bills start coming due. And when you have a subdivision of 5,000 homes all built simultaneously, deferred maintenance on a depreciating neighborhood risks a bad outcome.

Posted: **08 Feb 2021 18:36**

I45Tex wrote:Thing is, a growing population of people who aren't in the workforce (retirees, in the case of Florida and Arizona) is not sustainable growth. Phoenix and Miami's office markets are a fraction per capita of ours because more of the job growth is in services/tourism. Exodus from SoCal and Chicagoland, in Arizona's case, and from Chicago and NYC in Florida's, are Phoenix and Miami's best chance to get some primary industries and employers to start moving there for real. Unless there are even more people willing to buy out these retirees' homes at more than they're paying for them right now (and the demographics make that extremely unlikely -- Baby Boomers currently have more net worth than all other generations ahead of and behind them combined), the housing prices will drop just as the maintenance bills start coming due. And when you have a subdivision of 5,000 homes all built simultaneously, deferred maintenance on a depreciating neighborhood risks a bad outcome.

The main thing driving the growth rates in Florida and Arizona are the (relatively) low property taxes, and the better access to recreational opportunities.

This is anecdotal, but I've heard from real estate agents in DFW that they've dealt with a number of folks who were strongly considering DFW and then got sticker shock once they saw the property taxes and decided against moving here.

Posted: **08 Feb 2021 22:54**

That's good info. I just think that that decision point will change real fast if it ever looks like people buying there would end up selling at a loss. Having a normal economic base is a hedge against that.

Compared to North Texas, right now Arizona still does not have a comparable small business innovation ecosystem nor a comparable set of established employers outside of hospitals and hospitality (for instance, AZ's top three publicly traded companies by revenue are #169, 221, and 305 in the Fortune 500).

In South Florida, population roughly seven million, similar to the entire state population in Arizona, the highest ranked are much higher -- but not strong, either: #91 World Fuel Services, #147 Lennar homebuilders, #154 Autonation.

https://fortune.com/fortune500/2020/search/?hqstate=AZ

https://fortune.com/fortune500/2020/search/?hqstate=FL

Posted: **09 Feb 2021 05:39**

I have never thought about the affect of retirement population in such a way before....

Posted: **09 Feb 2021 09:25**

Is DFW really that different though? I personally know of 6 100+ unit age 55+ apartment complexes in Plano under or nearing construction, 3 in Richardson, 2 in Lewisville, and 1 in Far North Dallas. How many in Irving, or the rest of Dallas and Ft Worth? They basically fly under the radar so they are approved nearly everywhere, don't carry the negative connotations of regular apartments, and are more politically ideologically consistent voters (at least in Texas). It's a real market segment and is growing.

Posted: **09 Feb 2021 10:08**

I agree that segment / trend isn't absent here, but the business-driven growth is likely more substantial, just based on F1000 presence alone, not to mention SMBs and service firms.

Posted: **09 Feb 2021 13:24**

I get the feeling that DFW's 55+ build trends are a little more of a natural evolution and dotted across the region vice the Sun City, AZ purpose-built 55+ mini-city or other places not so master-planned yet heavily dotted throughout Maricopa County or South Florida.

Posted: **03 May 2021 20:26**

In the morning we can check for the Census' 7/2020 estimates of county and Metro Statistical Area populations. I haven't heard when the official 4/1/2020 counts of MSAs will be released. I believe tomorrow's figures are not based upon them but will be revised later once the counts are out.

Posted: **03 May 2021 21:03**

Will there be a recount?
Haha

Posted: **04 May 2021 11:56**

I haven't had time to look but here's the new data:

https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys ... areas.html

Posted: **04 May 2021 15:55**

That data suggests that DFW again had the largest growth in number of people with 119,748 new folks. The previous year it was 117,380.

Phoenix grew by 106,008.

Houston grew by 91,078.

Chicago apparently shrunk by 47,644, so our gap with them is continuing to shrink.

Posted: **04 May 2021 16:52**

THRILLHO wrote:That data suggests that DFW again had the largest growth in number of people with 119,748 new folks. The previous year it was 117,380.

Phoenix grew by 106,008.

Houston grew by 91,078.

Chicago apparently shrunk by 47,644, so our gap with them is continuing to shrink.

These estimates should be viewed with hefty skepticism, given the significant gap between the estimates for the states and official state numbers that were released last next.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washin ... utType=amp

Posted: **04 May 2021 16:53**

I45Tex wrote:In the morning we can check for the Census' 7/2020 estimates of county and Metro Statistical Area populations. I haven't heard when the official 4/1/2020 counts of MSAs will be released. I believe tomorrow's figures are not based upon them but will be revised later once the counts are out.

I last heard the official numbers will be released August 16th.

Posted: **04 May 2021 17:30**

Addison wrote:These estimates should be viewed with hefty skepticism, given the significant gap between the estimates for the states and official state numbers that were released last next.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washin ... utType=amp

If anything this makes me more skeptical of the accuracy of the official count rather than the projections. Estimates are only estimates no question there, but the potential problems with the official count seem so severe that it makes me wonder if the projections end up being closer to reality.

Alas, there's not much that can be done regardless. The numbers will be what they will be and we'll have to live with them for the next ten years, but I really wish a recount could be done. The Census Bureau really had an uphill battle all of last year.

Posted: **09 May 2021 13:40**

The next time someone tells you that Dallas is booming...

"The Dallas-Fort Worth area added nearly 120,000 people during the pandemic, mostly on the backs of booming suburban counties. In fact, Dallas had nothing to do with that growth: Dallas County added just 285 people while its neighbors saw thousands of relocations in 2020."

https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... tion-boom/

Posted: **09 May 2021 21:26**

Hannibal Lecter wrote:The next time someone tells you that Dallas is booming...

"The Dallas-Fort Worth area added nearly 120,000 people during the pandemic, mostly on the backs of booming suburban counties. In fact, Dallas had nothing to do with that growth: Dallas County added just 285 people while its neighbors saw thousands of relocations in 2020."

https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... tion-boom/

I came here to post that.

I've already given my opinion about the estimates above, but for Dallas County to see such little growth for an entire year would be crazy if true.

EDIT: That's only inward migration, not total population growth. But still a lot lower than I would have expected.

Posted: **10 May 2021 10:07**

Addison wrote:
Hannibal Lecter wrote:The next time someone tells you that Dallas is booming...

"The Dallas-Fort Worth area added nearly 120,000 people during the pandemic, mostly on the backs of booming suburban counties. In fact, Dallas had nothing to do with that growth: Dallas County added just 285 people while its neighbors saw thousands of relocations in 2020."

https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... tion-boom/

I came here to post that.

I've already given my opinion about the estimates above, but for Dallas County to see such little growth for an entire year would be crazy if true.

EDIT: That's only inward migration, not total population growth. But still a lot lower than I would have expected.

It's total population growth. The 2019 estimate for Dallas County was 2,635,603 and it grew to 2,635,888 in 2020.

Tarrant County grew from 2,101,282 to 2,123,347 (adding 22,065 people).

Posted: **10 May 2021 11:35**

Tucy wrote:
Addison wrote:
Hannibal Lecter wrote:The next time someone tells you that Dallas is booming...

"The Dallas-Fort Worth area added nearly 120,000 people during the pandemic, mostly on the backs of booming suburban counties. In fact, Dallas had nothing to do with that growth: Dallas County added just 285 people while its neighbors saw thousands of relocations in 2020."

https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... tion-boom/

I came here to post that.

I've already given my opinion about the estimates above, but for Dallas County to see such little growth for an entire year would be crazy if true.

EDIT: That's only inward migration, not total population growth. But still a lot lower than I would have expected.

It's total population growth. The 2019 estimate for Dallas County was 2,635,603 and it grew to 2,635,888 in 2020.

Tarrant County grew from 2,101,282 to 2,123,347 (adding 22,065 people).

I stand corrected.

That's a poorly written article then, because that 120,000 increase would include natural births and not just individuals who moved to DFW because of the pandemic.

Posted: **10 May 2021 18:14**

285 just seems so too low to me. I work at the Dallas County Tax Office and we at least 20 people a day getting their old cars and titles registered to Dallas County.

Posted: **10 May 2021 18:53**

anon wrote:285 just seems so too low to me. I work at the Dallas County Tax Office and we at least 20 people a day getting their old cars and titles registered to Dallas County.

Are you also keeping track of former Dallas County cars and titles that are being re-registered in counties other than Dallas?

Posted: **10 May 2021 21:08**

I'm not sure what people expected comparing Dallas County with Collin County.
There are no empty cheap plots of land to fill in with new houses in Dallas.
The only ones left are in South Dallas after clearing forests,
and thats if they can convince people to want to live there

For every new apartment tower we see built or every new car registration in Dallas, you dont see people moving out to establish a family, poorer folk pushed out into the suburbs due to high rent, crime of just gentrification, or the better schools. So now it becomes a race, Dallas needs to densify faster than people are moving out due to the same gentrification being used to increase density until it reaches critical mass whereby development takes off by itself and starts to attract people from the surrounding suburbs.

Or else Dallas will be sentenced to the slow death seen by inner cities in major metropolitan areas such as SF or Detroit. And I mentioned SF specifically because altho it is dense and has better urban development than Dallas, the surrounding Bay Area cities just grew faster. NIMBYs didnt help either

Posted: **11 May 2021 01:09**

Tucy wrote:
anon wrote:285 just seems so too low to me. I work at the Dallas County Tax Office and we at least 20 people a day getting their old cars and titles registered to Dallas County.

Are you also keeping track of former Dallas County cars and titles that are being re-registered in counties other than Dallas?

..ok? Again, for me, 285 seems real low.

Posted: **11 May 2021 09:29**

Yeah I don't believe that to be true at all.

Posted: **03 Jun 2021 15:48**

City and town population estimates for 2020 were released.

Dallas: 1,343,266 (up from 1,343,192 in 2019 -- increase of 74). Grew from 1,197,672 in 2010.
Fort Worth: 927,720 (up from 908,491 in 2019 -- increase of 19,229). Grew from 744,800 in 2010.
Arlington: 398,864 (down from 398,930 in 2019 -- decrease of 66). Grew from 365,125 in 2010.
Plano: 291,296 (up from 287,803 in 2019 -- increase of 3,493). Grew from 259,860 in 2010.
Garland: 238,139 (down from 239,782 -- decrease of 1,639). Grew from 226,857 in 2010.
Irving: 240,916 (up from 239,674 in 2019 -- increase of 1,242). Grew from 216,285 in 2010.
McKinney: 208,272 (up from 199,447 in 2019 -- increase of 8,825). Grew from 131,154 in 2010.
Denton: 147,515 (up from 142,500 in 2019 -- increase of 5,015). Grew from 116,329 in 2010.
Mesquite: 138,916 (down from 140,794 in 2019 -- decrease of 1,878). Loss of 1,026 since 2010.
Carrollton: 139,892 (up from 139,429 in 2019 -- increase of 463). Grew from 119,213 since 2010.
Grand Prairie: 195,272 (up from 194,419 in 2019 -- increase of 853). Grew from 175,435 in 2010.
Frisco: 209,980 (up from 200,907 in 2019 -- increase of 73). Grew from 117,159 in 2010.
Richardson: 121,112 (down from 121,574 in 2019 -- decrease of 462). Grew from 99,251 in 2010.
Lewisville: 112,232 (up from 109,433 in 2019 -- increase of 12,799). Grew from 95,474 in 2010.
Allen: 109,379 (up from 105,702 in 2019 -- increase of 3,677). Grew from 84,273 in 2010.

Posted: **03 Jun 2021 16:01**

Elsewhere in the state:

Austin: 995,484 (up from 978,763 in 2019 -- increase of 16,721). Grew from 801,862 in 2010.
Houston: 2,316,120 (up from 2,315,720 in 2019 -- increase of 400). Grew from 2,092,919 in 2010.
San Antonio: 1,567,118 (up from 1,547,256 in 2019 -- increase of 19,862). Grew from 1,326,819 in 2010.
El Paso: 681,534 (up from 680,028 in 2019 -- increase of 1,506). Grew from 648,079 in 2010.
Corpus Christi: 327,248 (up from 326,570 in 2019 -- increase of 678). Grew from 305,202 in 2010.
Laredo: 263,640 (up from 262,200 in 2019 -- increase of 1,440). Grew from 235,781 in 2010.
Lubbock: 262,611 (up from 259,344 in 2019 -- increase of 3,267). Grew from 229,944 in 2010.

Posted: **03 Jun 2021 19:21**

Tucy wrote:City and town population estimates for 2020 were released.

Dallas: 1,343,266 (up from 1,343,192 in 2019 -- increase of 74). Grew from 1,197,672 in 2010.
Fort Worth: 927,720 (up from 908,491 in 2019 -- increase of 19,229). Grew from 744,800 in 2010.
Arlington: 398,864 (down from 398,930 in 2019 -- decrease of 66). Grew from 365,125 in 2010.
Plano: 291,296 (up from 287,803 in 2019 -- increase of 3,493). Grew from 259,860 in 2010.
Garland: 238,139 (down from 239,782 -- decrease of 1,639). Grew from 226,857 in 2010.
Irving: 240,916 (up from 239,674 in 2019 -- increase of 1,242). Grew from 216,285 in 2010.
McKinney: 208,272 (up from 199,447 in 2019 -- increase of 8,825). Grew from 131,154 in 2010.
Denton: 147,515 (up from 142,500 in 2019 -- increase of 5,015). Grew from 116,329 in 2010.
Mesquite: 138,916 (down from 140,794 in 2019 -- decrease of 1,878). Loss of 1,026 since 2010.
Carrollton: 139,892 (up from 139,429 in 2019 -- increase of 463). Grew from 119,213 since 2010.
Grand Prairie: 133,811 (up from 133,372 in 2019 -- increase of 439). Grew from 121,824 in 2010.
Frisco: 128,993 (up from 123,605 in 2019 -- increase of 5,388). Grew from 72,670 in 2010.
Richardson: 121,112 (down from 121,574 in 2019 -- decrease of 462). Grew from 99,251 in 2010.
Lewisville: 112,232 (up from 109,433 in 2019 -- increase of 12,799). Grew from 95,474 in 2010.
Allen: 109,379 (up from 105,702 in 2019 -- increase of 3,677). Grew from 84,273 in 2010.

Where did these numbers come from? Grand Prairie and Frisco seem to be way off.

Posted: **03 Jun 2021 19:37**

May 27th, 2021:

https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys ... mates.html

Posted: **03 Jun 2021 19:43**

I45Tex wrote:May 27th, 2021:

https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys ... mates.html

According to the link, Grand Prairie’s population is almost 200k and Frisco is 200k+. The post above has them both at about 70k less.

Posted: **03 Jun 2021 20:53**

Jbarn wrote:
I45Tex wrote:May 27th, 2021:

https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys ... mates.html

According to the link, Grand Prairie’s population is almost 200k and Frisco is 200k+. The post above has them both at about 70k less.

Good catch. I made those corrections and checked all the other numbers. original post edited.

Posted: **03 Jun 2021 21:13**

The trump administration bungled the census horrifically. I am a very civic minded person and did not even get to respond before trump cut the census off early. Not believing any of these numbers... not even taking them with a swimming pool full of salt.

Posted: **03 Jun 2021 22:43**

These estimates are based only on the 2010-2019 estimates. The decadal Census is required to be a physical count, not an estimate. Forumer Addison noted upthread that the Census 2020 count results at this geo level won't be released until August at least.

Posted: **04 Jun 2021 09:42**

I45Tex wrote:These estimates are based only on the 2010-2019 estimates. The decadal Census is required to be a physical count, not an estimate. Forumer Addison noted upthread that the Census 2020 count results at this geo level won't be released until August at least.

Yes, these are estimates, not the decadal Census physical count. However, they are the 2020 estimates, not 2019.

Posted: **24 Mar 2022 15:53**

New estimates are out:
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/population-estimates-counties-decrease.html

The metroplex is the top gainer again. +97,290.
Feels like the gap with Houston is just going to keep widening.

Posted: **24 Mar 2022 17:16**

IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:New estimates are out:
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/population-estimates-counties-decrease.html

The metroplex is the top gainer again. +97,290.
Feels like the gap with Houston is just going to keep widening.

Annual Growth Rates (%) for DFW and Houston

DFW
'21 -- 1.27
'20 -- 1.18
'19 -- 1.57
'18 -- 1.61
'17 -- 1.98
'16 -- 2.16
'15 -- 2.22
'14 -- 2.01
'13 -- 1.65
'12 -- 2.06
'11 -- 1.85

Houston
'21 -- 0.97
'20 -- 1.01
'19 -- 1.29
'18 -- 1.10
'17 -- 1.37
'16 -- 2.02
'15 -- 2.64
'14 -- 2.72
'13 -- 2.34
12 -- 2.10
'11 -- 1.83

Decadal Percentage growth

DFW
10-20 -- 18.8%
00-10 -- 23.1%
90-00 -- 34.4%

Houston
10-20 -- 20.3%
00-10 -- 41.7%
90-00 -- 26.5%

Posted: **24 Mar 2022 17:32**

I understand growth all over has slowed quite a bit, but would this be the first time Houston has had <1% growth in however many decades?

Also, our difference with Chicago keeps shrinking. Looks like we're still on track to pass them before 2040.

Posted: **24 Mar 2022 19:11**

The suburban sprawl continues!

Posted: **25 Mar 2022 12:27**

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:The suburban sprawl continues!

Indeed it does. Dallas County lost ground and not just relatively speaking.

Dallas County 2020 Population: 2,610,957
Dallas County 2021 Population: 2,586,050

Loss of 24,907 in one year! Yikes!

Posted: **25 Mar 2022 12:36**

That's concerning. Is this part of a larger trend, or just a temporary change due to the pandemic?

I'm just confused at the number given the amount of construction that I'm seeing around the urban core. Of course I know Dallas county is huge, so perhaps the population loss is occurring in areas that I don't really venture to.

Posted: **25 Mar 2022 13:30**

potatocoins wrote:
I'm just confused at the number given the amount of construction that I'm seeing around the urban core. Of course I know Dallas county is huge, so perhaps the population loss is occurring in areas that I don't really venture to.

Yeah, it's easy to be distracted and misled when you closely follow developments. I remember on another forum years ago a St Louis resident absolutely guaranteeing that the population of the City of St Louis had stopped declining and would show increases at the next census, because of all of the redevelopment he was seeing. Twenty (or more) years later, St. Louis's population continues its long decline.

Posted: **25 Mar 2022 13:35**

Even Tarrant is doing some of the heavy lifting: +11,000.

The southern outer ring counties were huge gainers. Kaufman county saw the largest percent growth in the U.S. (+10,782 - a 7.34% growth). It gained nearly as many people as Tarrant county.

Here are where all the North Texas counties rank for percent growth:

1. Kaufman (+10,782 / 7.34%)
...
5. Rockwall (+7,291 / 6.68%),
...
19. Parker (+7,332 / 4.91%)
...
33. Ellis (+8,406 / 4.33%)
...
44. Wise (+2,848 / 4.14%)
...
63. Hood (+2,269 / 3.66%)
...
67. Johnson (+6,547 / 3.62%)
...
84. Collin (+36,313 / 3.38%)
...
106. Hunt (+3,163 / 3.16%)
...
121. Denton (+27,747 / 3.04%)
...
157. Somervell (+255 / 2.77%)
...
216. Grayson (+3,322 / 2.44%)
...
232. Fannin (+837 / 2.34%)
...
454. Erath (+663 / 1.55%)
...
462. Navarro (+807 / 1.53%)
...
577. Cooke (+547 / 1.31%)
...
831. Palo Pinto (+259 / 0.91%)
...
1134. Tarrant (+11,768 / 0.56%)
...
...
...
2779. Dallas (-24,907 / -0.95%)

Posted: **25 Mar 2022 13:57**

potatocoins wrote:That's concerning. Is this part of a larger trend, or just a temporary change due to the pandemic?

It appears it may have to do with the pandemic, at least the timing suggests as much. The question then is, is the change structural or will it reverse as we are out of the pandemic?

FWIW, the components of the change are:

Total net change: -24,907
Natural change (births over deaths): +15,686
Net International Migration: +4,340
Net Domestic Migration: -44,650

Posted: **25 Mar 2022 17:27**

I know the pandemic challenged a lot of urban populations for all the reasons we know about, but I also wonder if / how much of this is due to the widely reported undercounting of hispanic and black populations in 2020 census. Anyone have any real idea?

Posted: **25 Mar 2022 22:32**

Tucy wrote:
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:The suburban sprawl continues!

Indeed it does. Dallas County lost ground and not just relatively speaking.

Dallas County 2020 Population: 2,610,957
Dallas County 2021 Population: 2,586,050

Loss of 24,907 in one year! Yikes!

In all fairness, it seems the core county in all major metros lost population. Even Harris County saw a drop.

Posted: **25 Mar 2022 22:33**

jetnd87 wrote:I know the pandemic challenged a lot of urban populations for all the reasons we know about, but I also wonder if / how much of this is due to the widely reported undercounting of hispanic and black populations in 2020 census. Anyone have any real idea?

I suspect that has a lot to do with it.

Posted: **25 Mar 2022 22:36**

IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:Even Tarrant is doing some of the heavy lifting: +11,000.

The southern outer ring counties were huge gainers. Kaufman county saw the largest percent growth in the U.S. (+10,782 - a 7.34% growth). It gained nearly as many people as Tarrant county.

Here are where all the North Texas counties rank for percent growth:

1. Kaufman (+10,782 / 7.34%)
...
5. Rockwall (+7,291 / 6.68%),
...
19. Parker (+7,332 / 4.91%)
...
33. Ellis (+8,406 / 4.33%)
...
44. Wise (+2,848 / 4.14%)
...
63. Hood (+2,269 / 3.66%)
...
67. Johnson (+6,547 / 3.62%)
...
84. Collin (+36,313 / 3.38%)
...
106. Hunt (+3,163 / 3.16%)
...
121. Denton (+27,747 / 3.04%)
...
157. Somervell (+255 / 2.77%)
...
216. Grayson (+3,322 / 2.44%)
...
232. Fannin (+837 / 2.34%)
...
454. Erath (+663 / 1.55%)
...
462. Navarro (+807 / 1.53%)
...
577. Cooke (+547 / 1.31%)
...
831. Palo Pinto (+259 / 0.91%)
...
1134. Tarrant (+11,768 / 0.56%)
...
...
...
2779. Dallas (-24,907 / -0.95%)

Ellis and Kaufman Counties are really starting to take off.

That's good in a way. We need them to develop far more aggressively to counterbalance the rapid march of the northern suburbs to Oklahoma.

Posted: **25 Mar 2022 22:44**

Tucy wrote:
potatocoins wrote:
I'm just confused at the number given the amount of construction that I'm seeing around the urban core. Of course I know Dallas county is huge, so perhaps the population loss is occurring in areas that I don't really venture to.

Yeah, it's easy to be distracted and misled when you closely follow developments. I remember on another forum years ago a St Louis resident absolutely guaranteeing that the population of the City of St Louis had stopped declining and would show increases at the next census, because of all of the redevelopment he was seeing. Twenty (or more) years later, St. Louis's population continues its long decline.

I'm still skeptical of the decline shown by the census though.

Dallas isn't a hollowed out rust belt city like St. Louis or Detroit. It's fiscally healthy and from a services standpoint, generally functions quite well for a big city (just gotta get that fucking building permit mess fixed). Dallas also hasn't suffered from white/wealth flight to neighboring suburbs.

But most importantly, occupancy rates are quite high in Dallas and new apartment/homes get rented/purchased rapidly. Detroit and St. Louis both have a huge supply of housing going unused, which keeps home values, occupancy rates & rental rates in check.

Posted: **26 Mar 2022 12:48**

Addison wrote:
Tucy wrote:
potatocoins wrote:
I'm just confused at the number given the amount of construction that I'm seeing around the urban core. Of course I know Dallas county is huge, so perhaps the population loss is occurring in areas that I don't really venture to.

Yeah, it's easy to be distracted and misled when you closely follow developments. I remember on another forum years ago a St Louis resident absolutely guaranteeing that the population of the City of St Louis had stopped declining and would show increases at the next census, because of all of the redevelopment he was seeing. Twenty (or more) years later, St. Louis's population continues its long decline.

I'm still skeptical of the decline shown by the census though.

Dallas isn't a hollowed out rust belt city like St. Louis or Detroit. It's fiscally healthy and from a services standpoint, generally functions quite well for a big city (just gotta get that fucking building permit mess fixed). Dallas also hasn't suffered from white/wealth flight to neighboring suburbs.

But most importantly, occupancy rates are quite high in Dallas and new apartment/homes get rented/purchased rapidly. Detroit and St. Louis both have a huge supply of housing going unused, which keeps home values, occupancy rates & rental rates in check.

I'd like to see the Census Numbers for Dallas County cities. Dallas Proper occupancy is some what high. But occupancy doesn't account for displacement either.

I know Garland/Mesquite are horrible... Could see ppl fleeing those places.

Posted: **27 Mar 2022 10:31**

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
Addison wrote:
Tucy wrote:

Yeah, it's easy to be distracted and misled when you closely follow developments. I remember on another forum years ago a St Louis resident absolutely guaranteeing that the population of the City of St Louis had stopped declining and would show increases at the next census, because of all of the redevelopment he was seeing. Twenty (or more) years later, St. Louis's population continues its long decline.

I'm still skeptical of the decline shown by the census though.

Dallas isn't a hollowed out rust belt city like St. Louis or Detroit. It's fiscally healthy and from a services standpoint, generally functions quite well for a big city (just gotta get that fucking building permit mess fixed). Dallas also hasn't suffered from white/wealth flight to neighboring suburbs.

But most importantly, occupancy rates are quite high in Dallas and new apartment/homes get rented/purchased rapidly. Detroit and St. Louis both have a huge supply of housing going unused, which keeps home values, occupancy rates & rental rates in check.

I'd like to see the Census Numbers for Dallas County cities. Dallas Proper occupancy is some what high. But occupancy doesn't account for displacement either.

I know Garland/Mesquite are horrible... Could see ppl fleeing those places.

2021 City estimates are scheduled for release in May

Posted: **28 Mar 2022 14:11**

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
Addison wrote:
Tucy wrote:

I know Garland/Mesquite are horrible... Could see ppl fleeing those places.

I don't know about Garland, but I know there are a couple of huge subdivisions being built in Mesquite. So I think it's growing out there.

Posted: **28 Mar 2022 14:24**

I don't really spend time in either of those suburbs, but it seems like houses are priced relatively well (compared to suburbs in the north). Of course, I'd imagine jobs, schools, amenities are going to be better in other suburbs, but places like Mesquite and Garland seem like good options for people looking in a lower price range.

Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

New Census Population Estimates

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Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates

Re: New Census Population Estimates