Downtown Progress

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tucy » 07 Mar 2023 13:31

rono3849 wrote:I think Field Street is more likely than Newpark, but they didn't explain the "educational" aspect of this development in depth whatsoever. All of it was very vague.


No doubt. Field Street District is probably ten times more likely than Newpark (which puts Field Street at about 10% likelihood).

FWIW, I think that Newpark video was made some time ago. If there was ever any substance to that education component, who knows if it still exists (seems like it probably does not).

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Addison
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Addison » 07 Mar 2023 14:23

I will go out on a limb and say neither Field Street nor Newpark will come to fruition, certainly nothing close to their current renderings.

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dallaz
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby dallaz » 14 Mar 2023 15:36

Downtown Dallas looks to turn offices into residential housing

https://youtu.be/LKsDjbqvhkY

Just wanted to share this recent news clip on YouTube. Nothing really new but it shows a model studio apt.

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tucy » 23 Mar 2023 16:37

Nervous lenders are scrutinizing Dallas-area commercial property loans

The largest two Dallas area properties that lenders are scrutinizing are in downtown Dallas - the 2100 Ross office tower near the Arts District and the Mercantile Place on Main apartments on Main Streets, Morningstar details.

Morningstar said it added 2100 Ross with more than $86 million in loans to the list of properties on lenders’ watchlist after occupancy in the building fell below 60%.

“Morningstar’s largest concern is the high vacancy rate of 31% in the Dallas central business district, which would make re-leasing challenging if any major tenant fails to renew its lease,” the analysts said.

The Mercantile Place buildings were put on notice by lenders with the estimated value falling below the current debt of more than $45 million.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... rty-loans/

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tucy » 04 Apr 2023 12:36

Office Space Occupied in Central Dallas (per Transwestern)

CBD
4th Q 2012: 27,209,000
3rd Q 2020: 22,950,000
1st Q 2023: 18,897,254 -- 30.5% less than 2012.. 17.7% drop in the past 2 1/2 years. (and down another 219,000 square feet since year-end 2022)

Uptown/Turtle Creek
4th Q 2012: 10,396,000
3rd Q 2020: 12,367,000
1st Q 2023: 10,470,107 (down another 692,915 since year-end 2022)

Greater Downtown Dallas
4th Q 2012: 37,605,000
3rd Q 2020: 35,317,000
1st Q 2023: 29,367,361 (912,216 fewer square feet occupied than at year-end 2022)

Stemmons Corridor
4th Q 2012: 12,135,718
3rd Q 2020: 12,514,121
1st Q 2023: 8,363,275

Preston Center
4th Q2012: 4,576,398
3rd Q 2020: 5,019,585
1st Q 2023: 4,121,411

Central Expressway
4th Q 2012: 14,263,926
3rd Q 2020: 12,514,121 (This one is not even as "good" as it looks... the 2020 inventory includes Park Central, whereas the 2012 inventory did not.)
1st Q 2023: 11,121,601

Deep Ellum/East Dallas
4th Q 2012: 2,211,221
3rd Q 2020: 1,529,173
1st Q 2023: 1,211,032

West LBJ
4th Q 2012: 4,176,724
3rd Q 2020: 3,323,225
1st Q 2023: 2,746,046

Total Office Space Occupied in these Central Dallas Submarkets:
4th Q 2012: 74,968,987 square feet
3rd Q 2020: 70,217,225 square feet.
1st Q 2023: 56,930,726 square feet -- 24.1% less occupied office space than in 2012. 189% drop in the past 2 1/2 years.

Tnexster
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tnexster » 05 Apr 2023 10:08

Those numbers are even worse than I had imagined. Working downtown I can certainly see and feel the change. The Starbucks in our 45 story tower can't even stay open past 3:00 because there isn't enough business to do so. It is fairly easy to get served tho, which is nice on the rare occasion I am in the building and want something. Still lots of empty storefronts that used to have restaurants, and those that are open never seem to be that busy.

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dallaz
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby dallaz » 25 Apr 2023 15:02

2023 State of the Downtown Dallas Market update


https://youtu.be/aE2D0cu7anM


Some of what was said:

Over 15,000 ppl living in the 1.1 sq mi downtown boundaries

Over 200 restaurants and retail

Q1 2023 1,310 units U/C and 1,500 units planned

Hospitality sector has outperformed 2019 and 2020 numbers

Q/A at the end, one question was about NewPark. They said they’re still looking for tenants. So, basically it’s not going to happening until they do.
Last edited by dallaz on 26 Apr 2023 00:50, edited 1 time in total.

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R1070
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby R1070 » 25 Apr 2023 19:42

I'm looking forward to when downtown passes the 20k mark.

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Matt777
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Matt777 » 25 Apr 2023 21:54

R1070 wrote:I'm looking forward to when downtown passes the 20k mark.


Kind of shows how massively underserved Downtown Dallas is when it comes to retail, restaurants, and services. When you look at a town like Uvalde, TX (approx 15,000 population) and how much more they have. I know it's more expensive to put certain things in DTD vs a place like Uvalde, but I'd bet the per capita income of the DTD residents is much higher.

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zaphod
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby zaphod » 25 Apr 2023 23:37

Yes I wonder what the critical mass needs to be to have more day to day amenities and services.

Part of the problem might be that while downtown and a town like Uvalde have the same population, there's plenty of retail and things within a few miiles of downtown to compete with whereas these small towns are the only nodes in their region.

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Addison
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Addison » 26 Apr 2023 10:40

Matt777 wrote:
R1070 wrote:I'm looking forward to when downtown passes the 20k mark.


Kind of shows how massively underserved Downtown Dallas is when it comes to retail, restaurants, and services. When you look at a town like Uvalde, TX (approx 15,000 population) and how much more they have. I know it's more expensive to put certain things in DTD vs a place like Uvalde, but I'd bet the per capita income of the DTD residents is much higher.


Not a good comparison.

Uvalde is 7 sq. mi. in land area.

The 7 sq. mi radius surrounding downtown Dallas is more than well-served by retail/restaurants/services (including HPV and NorthPark).

A better comparison would be downtown Dallas vs. Chicago's Loop. The latter has 3 times as many residents, a median income over $100K and almost assuredly way more daytime workers/tourists.

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Matt777
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Matt777 » 28 Apr 2023 09:36

I posted in its own thread in Urban Development, but the Alto211 building (211 N Ervay) will become 238 apartments.

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The_Overdog
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby The_Overdog » 28 Apr 2023 16:25

My main takeaway: 15000 residents in 50 properties vs 140 commercial office buildings. That's a terrible ratio. Also your standard suburban neighborhood has like 5-8000 residents, so 15000 is just not that many. 30 hotels vs 50 residential properties. Terrible ratio!

86 acres of undeveloped land in downtown. Yikes.

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The_Overdog
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby The_Overdog » 28 Apr 2023 16:30

10,000 hotel rooms across 30 hotel buildings. DT Dallas probably has more hotel rooms than residential units.

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zaphod
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby zaphod » 28 Apr 2023 19:03

I think you'd also have to consider how consumption patterns differ too. 10,000 hotel rooms, occupied by people who eat out almost every meal. That's more restaurant demand than a residential suburb.

That said I wonder what the critical mass is for central Dallas to feel genuinely urban like Chicago for example. Even Denver is way ahead. I think it would take surrounding areas like Cedars and East Dallas being fully filled in to get that vibe. Where its more than just conventional city center dwellers and you have families, etc, in some of the outlying neighborhoods.

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The_Overdog
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby The_Overdog » 01 May 2023 09:22

Yes. I agree with that. I just messed around with the circle population mapper, and it puts the 2015 population 3km radius at 66k, but the problem is that if you move it slightly north to Highland Park, that number is 88k, and slightly south is only 35k. So slightly south is at 30-35k, which is far less dense than the northern suburbs. A random 3k circle in Plano or Richardson is 65k, double the population of The Cedars, Oak Cliff, Trinity Groves, etc. That's kind of sad when you are talking walking/biking distance to the downtown Central Business District.

BTW: since they put the 2000 population at 200 people, and are up to 15,000 20 years later, well you can say they will have 20k in another 4 years, and 30k by 2040 or so.

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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tnexster » 29 Jun 2023 08:40

Downtown new deliveries push vacancy rate up on both sides of DFW

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... 1#cxrecs_s

New downtown multifamily deliveries have pushed up the vacancy rate on both sides of the metro, with new suburban assets outperforming those in the urban core.

Properties delivered since 2019 have pushed the vacancy rate up to about 10% and 17% for the Dallas and Fort Worth central business districts, respectively. In comparison, multifamily assets delivered to the suburbs during the same time period have tended to perform better, according to a new report from Partners.

Vacancies in Dallas suburbs hit 8.4% and 8.6% in Fort Worth's surrounding areas.

Extreme cases have impacted vacancy rates within Downtown Dallas. Among these cases, the AMLI Fountain Place in the Dallas CBD has a vacancy rate of more than 38% after delivering almost three years ago. The Christopher in Uptown Dallas has a vacancy rate of almost 9%.

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The_Overdog
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby The_Overdog » 29 Jun 2023 08:57

It's not nearly as lopsided as the pull quote suggests: vacancy rate in Dallas is 10%, in the Dallas suburbs 8.4%, which is a normal, balanced vacancy rate.
The properties mentioned (AMLI and The Christopher) have average rents quoted in the article of $5200 vs $3500, and the suburban properties mentioned rent for $1500 (Garland) and $2400 (Frisco).

The Ft Worth side is slightly more concerning, with one of the newer properties (Cityscape Arts Ft Worth) with a normal vacancy rate (9%) but only renting for $1750.

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tucy » 21 Jul 2023 14:39

Office Space Occupied in Central Dallas (per Transwestern)

CBD
4th Q 2012: 27,209,000
3rd Q 2020: 22,950,000
1st Q 2023: 18,897,254
2nd Q 2023:18,756,594 -- 31.1% less than 2012. 18.3% drop in the past 2 3/4 years. Almost 8 1/2 million less square feet occupied in downtown Dallas than 10 1/2 years ago.

Uptown/Turtle Creek
4th Q 2012: 10,396,000
3rd Q 2020: 12,367,000
1st Q 2023: 10,470,107
2nd Q 2023: 10,559,627 (up a little in the quarter, but still down 603,395 since year-end 2022)

Greater Downtown Dallas
4th Q 2012: 37,605,000
3rd Q 2020: 35,317,000
1st Q 2023: 29,367,361
2nd Q 2023: 29,316,221 (963,356 fewer square feet occupied than at year-end 2022)

Stemmons Corridor
4th Q 2012: 12,135,718
3rd Q 2020: 12,514,121
1st Q 2023: 8,363,275
2nd Q 2023: 8,295,095

Preston Center
4th Q2012: 4,576,398
3rd Q 2020: 5,019,585
1st Q 2023: 4,121,411
2nd Q 2023: 4,047,774

Central Expressway
4th Q 2012: 14,263,926
3rd Q 2020: 12,514,121 (This one is not even as "good" as it looks... the 2020 inventory includes Park Central, whereas the 2012 inventory did not.)
1st Q 2023: 11,121,601
2nd Q 2023: 11,019,625

Deep Ellum/East Dallas
4th Q 2012: 2,211,221
3rd Q 2020: 1,529,173
1st Q 2023: 1,211,032
2nd Q 2023: 1,180,422

West LBJ
4th Q 2012: 4,176,724
3rd Q 2020: 3,323,225
1st Q 2023: 2,746,046
2nd Q 2023: 2,806,731

Total Office Space Occupied in these Central Dallas Submarkets:
4th Q 2012: 74,968,987 square feet
3rd Q 2020: 70,217,225 square feet.
1st Q 2023: 56,930,726 square feet
2nd Q 2023: 56,665,868 -- 24.4% less occupied office space than in 2012. 19.3% drop in the past 2 3/4 years.
Last edited by Tucy on 21 Jul 2023 18:00, edited 1 time in total.

Tnexster
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tnexster » 21 Jul 2023 16:14

Great information, so out of all of these submarkets, only Uptown seems to be holding its own. CBD is a mess, not only is the occupancy way down and apparently still dropping, but of the space occupied only a percentage of employees actually show up in the office five days a week. So this is why all of those surface parking lots seem so empty three years after the pandemic. It's basically a disaster, question is if the City of Dallas can ever get ahead of it?

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby tamtagon » 21 Jul 2023 16:58

The city spent decades trying to make downtown comfortable for suburban office workers, now the city will have to make the whole downtown area comfortable for the people living there.

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I45Tex
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby I45Tex » 21 Jul 2023 17:27

If parking revenue finally flatlines, then it will encourage those who have been banking that land for decades to find someone who can afford to do something to revalue it.

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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby IcedCowboyCoffee » 21 Jul 2023 17:50

Tucy wrote:Total Office Space Occupied in these Central Dallas Submarkets:
4th Q 2012: 74,968,987 square feet
3rd Q 2020: 70,217,225 square feet.
1st Q 2023: 56,930,726 square feet
2nd Q 2923: 56,665,868 -- 24.4% less occupied office space than in 2012. 19.3% drop in the past 2 3/4 years.

Dallas office occupancy heading towards relative stasis for a millenia, Tucy has that melange spice prescience :P

But really, yeah. The "CBD" is going to have to be radically transformed (and renamed). Whatever threshold of demand surface lot owners were waiting for clearly isn't going to be reached if they were hoping to put up office space. It's time to recalibrate expectations.

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby tamtagon » 21 Jul 2023 20:47

IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:, Tucy has that melange spice prescience


Hahaha

Water is life

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Casa Linda
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Casa Linda » 22 Jul 2023 10:05

tamtagon wrote:The city spent decades trying to make downtown comfortable for suburban office workers, now the city will have to make the whole downtown area comfortable for the people living there.


I don't think it's bad that raw occupied office space is decreasing. What if it kept increasing each year? That would be terrible! More and more cars, more daytime workers who vacate on weekends, holidays, and nights.

I notice d/t has more people walking around and living their life than ever before.

Instead of office workers and buildings, d/t should be striving to create areas like Austin, San Antonio, and OKC have... walkable spaces with transit and activities. Continue to demolish or convert old office buildings.

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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby IcedCowboyCoffee » 24 Jul 2023 14:09

Casa Linda wrote:I notice d/t has more people walking around and living their life than ever before.

Instead of office workers and buildings, d/t should be striving to create areas like Austin, San Antonio, and OKC have... walkable spaces with transit and activities. Continue to demolish or convert old office buildings.


I'll be championing the pedestrianization of Commerce all the way to Harwood, then Harwood to Klyde Warren, until I'm blue in the face.
You'd have one path that has things to see the entire way:
Dealey Plaza-> JFK Memorial -> the Civic Garden -> Adolphus & Discovery District -> Main Street Garden/Statler/Municipal building -> Pacific Plaza park -> DMA & Nasher & Crow Collection -> Klyde Warren Park. All connected by one path.
Surely this would be more affordable than trying to summon a NY central park out of a floodplain.

You'd still have cross-traffic intersections, but presumably there could be one or two cross streets that could withstand being closed off.
Giving Commerce and Harwood over to pedestrians/bikes makes it possible to create a gravitational river of pedestrian activity. One where--because it's taking over only the width of a street--it's easy to create a wide tree canopy and shade structures that cover most of the path. This sort of long, street-width park space is ideal for hot climates because it is reassuring to know escape from the heat is never too far out of reach.

I've stood on the outside a couple of Houston's big urban parks in the dead of summer and thought "If I go in I don't know if I'll survive to make it out of the other side" :lol:

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tucy » 25 Jul 2023 13:11

Related to a discussion in the Energy Plaza thread, but it fits better here.

Biggest Restaurant on AT&T Campus, Jaxon, Will Close -- According to the DMN article It's the second restaurant in the AT&T Discovery District to close. (But it looks like a third restaurant has also closed, Rise & Thyme.

Jaxon Texas Kitchen and Beer Garden will close this Saturday. Another restaurant in the district, Hawthorn, closed in early 2023. The operator of Jaxon, also operates the neighboring food hall, but will no longer do so after Saturday. Jaxon's Facebook posts says they will reopen at a new location.

https://www.dallasnews.com/food/restaur ... ill-close/

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Jbarn
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Jbarn » 25 Jul 2023 13:43

AT&T needs to rethink or reconfigure the discovery district. It seems to have lost its way already. Perhaps they overshot the market and anticipated that there would be more foot traffic in downtown than there actually is? Covid really seems to have done a number on downtown Dallas, set it back many years.

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby tamtagon » 25 Jul 2023 14:06

They built too much of the same thing. Typical in Dallas.

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vman
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby vman » 25 Jul 2023 14:26

Jbarn wrote:AT&T needs to rethink or reconfigure the discovery district. It seems to have lost its way already. Perhaps they overshot the market and anticipated that there would be more foot traffic in downtown than there actually is? Covid really seems to have done a number on downtown Dallas, set it back many years.

I really enjoyed Jaxon and the Discovery District every time I visited. I personally think the food hall was a mistake. They are just difficult to make work here and most fail.

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Proquest20
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Proquest20 » 25 Jul 2023 15:42

It's rough when the majority of the population doesn't even live in Dallas, which is already somewhat of a dying city in itself, and they struggle to make downtown a destination like Uptown and Deep Ellum are. Most of the residents in this region don't really even have a reason to visit downtown in the first place.

In general, downtowns throughout the country (Union Square and the Miracle Mile) aren't necessarily thriving either. Deep Ellum and Uptown thrive because there's a lot more that makes them a destination besides just upscale dining and shopping (although the latter is limited to basically Neiman Marcus and 4510 in Downtown). It's harder for Dallas being that it's not a world class city like San Francisco and Chicago are, so tourism won't be a driving factor to Downtown Dallas most of the time.

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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby potatocoins » 25 Jul 2023 16:09

vman wrote:I really enjoyed Jaxon and the Discovery District every time I visited. I personally think the food hall was a mistake. They are just difficult to make work here and most fail.


Food halls were having a moment several years ago. I was really excited for them to build one here, but it seems like the fad has mostly passed on these. The Legacy Food Hall still seems to be doing well, though.

Maybe The Exchange needed more outdoor, multi-level outdoor space. It would be cool to be one or two floors up and watching the discovery district below you.

Proquest20 wrote:It's rough when the majority of the population doesn't even live in Dallas, which is already somewhat of a dying city in itself, and they struggle to make downtown a destination like Uptown and Deep Ellum are. Most of the residents in this region don't really even have a reason to visit downtown in the first place.

In general, downtowns throughout the country (Union Square and the Miracle Mile) aren't necessarily thriving either. Deep Ellum and Uptown thrive because there's a lot more that makes them a destination besides just upscale dining and shopping (although the latter is limited to basically Neiman Marcus and 4510 in Downtown). It's harder for Dallas being that it's not a world class city like San Francisco and Chicago are, so tourism won't be a driving factor to Downtown Dallas most of the time.


I think Downtown can get there, just like Uptown, Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, etc.. have gotten there. Downtown is quite a bit bigger than these other districts with more space to fill, but it's filling slowly but surely.

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Proquest20
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Proquest20 » 25 Jul 2023 16:54

potatocoins wrote:
vman wrote:I really enjoyed Jaxon and the Discovery District every time I visited. I personally think the food hall was a mistake. They are just difficult to make work here and most fail.


Food halls were having a moment several years ago. I was really excited for them to build one here, but it seems like the fad has mostly passed on these. The Legacy Food Hall still seems to be doing well, though.

Maybe The Exchange needed more outdoor, multi-level outdoor space. It would be cool to be one or two floors up and watching the discovery district below you.

Proquest20 wrote:It's rough when the majority of the population doesn't even live in Dallas, which is already somewhat of a dying city in itself, and they struggle to make downtown a destination like Uptown and Deep Ellum are. Most of the residents in this region don't really even have a reason to visit downtown in the first place.

In general, downtowns throughout the country (Union Square and the Miracle Mile) aren't necessarily thriving either. Deep Ellum and Uptown thrive because there's a lot more that makes them a destination besides just upscale dining and shopping (although the latter is limited to basically Neiman Marcus and 4510 in Downtown). It's harder for Dallas being that it's not a world class city like San Francisco and Chicago are, so tourism won't be a driving factor to Downtown Dallas most of the time.


I think Downtown can get there, just like Uptown, Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, etc.. have gotten there. Downtown is quite a bit bigger than these other districts with more space to fill, but it's filling slowly but surely.


I'd love it if Downtown could be like, a major shopping region just like other major downtowns were. I've always imagined Main Street having luxury shops in addition to the ones already there, with Commerce being more accessible. But in a place like Texas, why pay for parking to shop there when there's Highland Park Village where parking is free?
Museums are nice but they're all towards the outer edges of downtown, while the main streets in the middle tend to be a lot less exciting.
I do believe the amount of luxury hotels downtown would sustain it. They just really need more than only dining downtown.

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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby LuvBigD » 25 Jul 2023 20:58

Proquest20 wrote:It's rough when the majority of the population doesn't even live in Dallas, which is already somewhat of a dying city in itself, and they struggle to make downtown a destination like Uptown and Deep Ellum are. Most of the residents in this region don't really even have a reason to visit downtown in the first place.

In general, downtowns throughout the country (Union Square and the Miracle Mile) aren't necessarily thriving either. Deep Ellum and Uptown thrive because there's a lot more that makes them a destination besides just upscale dining and shopping (although the latter is limited to basically Neiman Marcus and 4510 in Downtown). It's harder for Dallas being that it's not a world class city like San Francisco and Chicago are, so tourism won't be a driving factor to Downtown Dallas most of the time.


I find it hard to believe that anyone would think that Chicago and San Francisco are world class cities these days. Chicago's crime (especially it's murder rate) is running rampant; and San Francisco's homeless problem and other issues has turned that city into a cesspool of drugs and associated crime. People are moving out of both of these "world class" cities in droves and where are they coming to? Texas and other southern states where the economies are thriving and where the jobs are at.

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Proquest20
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Proquest20 » 25 Jul 2023 21:05

LuvBigD wrote:
Proquest20 wrote:It's rough when the majority of the population doesn't even live in Dallas, which is already somewhat of a dying city in itself, and they struggle to make downtown a destination like Uptown and Deep Ellum are. Most of the residents in this region don't really even have a reason to visit downtown in the first place.

In general, downtowns throughout the country (Union Square and the Miracle Mile) aren't necessarily thriving either. Deep Ellum and Uptown thrive because there's a lot more that makes them a destination besides just upscale dining and shopping (although the latter is limited to basically Neiman Marcus and 4510 in Downtown). It's harder for Dallas being that it's not a world class city like San Francisco and Chicago are, so tourism won't be a driving factor to Downtown Dallas most of the time.


I find it hard to believe that anyone would think that Chicago and San Francisco are world class cities these days. Chicago's crime (especially it's murder rate) is running rampant; and San Francisco's homeless problem and other issues has turned that city into a cesspool of drugs and associated crime. People are moving out of both of these "world class" cities in droves and where are they coming to? Texas and other southern states where the economies are thriving and where the jobs are at.


And yet none of that growth in Texas is in Dallas. In Dallas, the population has been steadily decreasing or barely increasing for years while businesses and jobs bleed into the suburbs. I’m fine with saying Dallas is NOT world class and is dying.

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LuvBigD
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby LuvBigD » 26 Jul 2023 10:05

Actually it is. Dallas' population increased by over 8,000 people last year, and that's a net increase; and is expected to increase by more than that this year. Dallas' primary problem is that the city is having a problem keeping up with the housing demand. Also, they need to make a serious investment in infrastructure improvement in the southern sector of the city so that developers are able to get their projects going as soon as they are approved.

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Cbdallas
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Cbdallas » 26 Jul 2023 10:21

If Dallas could transform and unlock growth and dense urban development in its southern sector it could grow by leaps and bounds. Some of this has already begun but much more is needed along with massive rezoning. I think over time we will see this happen.

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Addison
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Addison » 26 Jul 2023 10:22

LuvBigD wrote:Actually it is. Dallas' population increased by over 8,000 people last year, and that's a net increase; and is expected to increase by more than that this year. Dallas' primary problem is that the city is having a problem keeping up with the housing demand. Also, they need to make a serious investment in infrastructure improvement in the southern sector of the city so that developers are able to get their projects going as soon as they are approved.


The latest population estimate is still below the 2020 census number, albeit just slightly.

That said, while I wouldn't say the city is in decline/dying, to Proquest20's main point, the fact that Dallas proper makes up an increasingly smaller portion of the Metroplex's population and keeps losing out on corporate relocations/expansions to its suburbs is definitely a concern with respect to the city's long-term ability to attract young families and pay for legacy expenses as it ages.

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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tnexster » 04 Aug 2023 10:51

Dallas CBD certainly isn't alone in having issues right now, seems like I hear about another cities challenges every week. Highlighted here is a story about Houston.

Houston, We Have Several Problems
H-Town’s aging office towers and multifamily syndication have ravaged the city’s once booming real estate market

https://commercialobserver.com/2023/07/ ... er-towers/

Still, all is not well in The Bayou City — especially in the city’s sprawling downtown and central business districts, and in its office sector in particular.

The total overall vacancy of Houston’s office sector sits at 26 percent, according to a second-quarter report from Avison Young. That is the highest office vacancy among tracked markets and significantly above the national average of 16.5 percent.

Transactions have also stalled. Houston’s office leasing volumes dropped by nearly 30 percent in the first quarter of 2023 compared to the last three quarters of 2022, while the year-over-year change in investment sales volume for the asset class plummeted 56 percent — down from $765 million in first quarter 2022 to $333 million in first quarter 2023, according to research from Partners Real Estate, one of the largest CRE firms in Texas.

Some of Houston’s once prime commercial towers, including skyline icons from the mid-1970s and early 1980s such as One City Centre, TC Energy Center and Pennzoil Place — with their angular glass architecture, triangular lobbies, geometric floor plans and pyramid-shaped atriums — have either defaulted on loans or seen longtime tenants vacate their premises.


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I45Tex
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby I45Tex » 04 Aug 2023 13:57

Addison wrote:smaller portion of the Metroplex's population and keeps losing out on corporate relocations/expansions to its suburbs is definitely a concern with respect to the city's long-term ability to attract young families and pay for legacy expenses as it ages.


Agreed except that it will be the suburbs aging into expenditures at an even less dense and more inefficient run rate -- thus losing their cost advantage -- in a decade or two, when they lose that tax incentive edge in relocation leeway relative to the central city. Texas is analogously not as cheap relative to say Philadelphia or Nashville as it used to be. Jobs can move "back in" here from the burbs just as "back East" there from the lonesome crowded West, and for similar reasons.

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Addison
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Addison » 04 Aug 2023 14:06

I45Tex wrote:
Addison wrote:smaller portion of the Metroplex's population and keeps losing out on corporate relocations/expansions to its suburbs is definitely a concern with respect to the city's long-term ability to attract young families and pay for legacy expenses as it ages.


Agreed except that it will be the suburbs aging into expenditures at an even less dense and more inefficient run rate -- thus losing their cost advantage -- in a decade or two, when they lose that tax incentive edge in relocation leeway relative to the central city. Texas is analogously not as cheap relative to say Philadelphia or Nashville as it used to be. Jobs can move "back in" here from the burbs just as "back East" there from the lonesome crowded West, and for similar reasons.


What matters more is that Texas remains cheap to do business, which it is (and likely willl remain so for the forseeable future) compared to Pennsylvania.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 04 Aug 2023 15:00

LuvBigD wrote:Dallas' population increased by over 8,000 people last year, and that's a net increase; and is expected to increase by more than that this year.


Parkland Hospital births 2022: 12,179

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I45Tex
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby I45Tex » 05 Aug 2023 13:35

Do you have a source for Childrens, Medical City, Methodist and Presby as well?

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I45Tex
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby I45Tex » 05 Aug 2023 13:42

Had to look it up but Clements has a labor and delivery department. Probably Methodist Richardson as well.

Grand Prairie's biggest hospital is just a few blocks across the county line into Tarrant but that's a minor quibble for this conversation. Baylor's Plano hospital on PGBT is also about a mile across the line into Collin.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 05 Aug 2023 17:17

I45Tex wrote:Do you have a source for Childrens, Medical City, Methodist and Presby as well?


I would hope there are very few births at Children's Medical Center. :-)

Some demographic info is available at https://www.marchofdimes.org/peristats/ ... 113&ftop=1. "In 2020, there were 36,114 live births in Dallas county."

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The_Overdog
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby The_Overdog » 07 Aug 2023 09:58

Agreed except that it will be the suburbs aging into expenditures at an even less dense and more inefficient run rate -- thus losing their cost advantage -- in a decade or two,


Practically every suburb of Dallas - Richardson, Plano, Arlington, Garland are all more uniformly dense than Dallas proper is. And Ft Worth is not even in the comparison. It's like 2500 people per sq mile, which is barely suburban. Dallas might have a few areas that are more dense, but it's generally pretty low density, so any issues it's suburbs face it will also face.

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CTroyMathis
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby CTroyMathis » 02 Oct 2023 16:00

Looks like a place called Cowboy Chow will fill the void Jaxon left behind.
I think all other names possible in English were taken on Earth, so that's all that was left.

Tnexster
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tnexster » 02 Oct 2023 16:50

Speaking of downtown, maybe the city should try to land one of these before Frisco does. Seems like a great fit for the city in need of an attraction.

https://www.thespherevegas.com

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potatocoins
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby potatocoins » 03 Oct 2023 08:20

Lol, that would put the reunion tower to shame. Seems like this could go somewhere in the Design District potentially, but I imagine the light pollution would be quite insane for the people who live around here.

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Matt777
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Matt777 » 03 Oct 2023 20:52

The_Overdog wrote:
Agreed except that it will be the suburbs aging into expenditures at an even less dense and more inefficient run rate -- thus losing their cost advantage -- in a decade or two,


Practically every suburb of Dallas - Richardson, Plano, Arlington, Garland are all more uniformly dense than Dallas proper is. And Ft Worth is not even in the comparison. It's like 2500 people per sq mile, which is barely suburban. Dallas might have a few areas that are more dense, but it's generally pretty low density, so any issues it's suburbs face it will also face.


Isn’t that density figure not considering the vast, vast areas of Dallas that cannot he developed, such as the trinity river floodplain and the great trinity forest, as well as possibly lakes? I don’t buy that those burbs are denser than Dallas when those factors are considered. Those suburbs have virtually zero natural/topographical hindrances to development. They can go wall to wall with low density suburban development.