Downtown Progress

[The_Overdog]

IMO: not really. Lakes don't make up very much of Dallas proper, nor does the Trinity Forrest.

If I had to throw a guess, it's because much of southern and western Dallas is barely developed. Dallas also has on-average larger single family lot sizes than most of it's suburbs, so it's developed single-family neighborhoods are less dense, especially the ones developed from the 1970s onward. Dallas density actually falls north of Highland Park until you get to Richardson.

[IcedCowboyCoffee]

IMO: not really. Lakes don't make up very much of Dallas proper, nor does the Trinity Forrest.

Yeah, the floodplain+trinity forest within the city limits of Dallas only make up something like ~20 square miles total out of Dallas's 340 square miles of land.

[Matt777]

Lake Ray Hubbard is strangely included in Dallas city limits and is vast. Over 35 square miles or over 10% alone. Same with Joe Pool Lake (12+ square miles) and Add in the areas of other smaller lakes, Trinity floodplain, Trinity forest, and areas around it that are not easily developed and we are talking probably over 20% of land area as non-developable. That's statistically very significant.

Don't forget that Dallas bears a larger percent of areas devoted to industrial/logistics space than the northern suburbs too.

South Dallas is less dense than it could be, that will probably change.

[itsjrd1964]

Lake Ray Hubbard belongs to Dallas despite Rockwall, Rowlett, Garland, Sunnyvale, and Heath being along its shores. Same applies to North Lake, which has Irving and Coppell as neighbors.

[IcedCowboyCoffee]

I'm coming in with some math.

Dallas total area is 385.9 sq miles.
The total area of water in the city limits is 43.87 sq miles, so the total area of actual land is 339.604.
Let's assume the trinity forest and the floodplain combined make up 25 sq miles. I think this is generous as it's more than half the total area of water. So, with that, let's put Dallas at 314 sq miles of "developable" land.
Using the 2022 census estimate, that puts the city of Dallas density at 4,138 people per square mile.

Here's how the list of DFW cities looks with that number for Dallas in it:
(All land area totals already have the water area subtracted from it. It is purely land.)

popdens1.JPG

Limited to cities with 100k+

popdens2.JPG

Sorted by total land area:

popdens3.JPG

These numbers are of course a bit generous to Dallas because it assumes every other city's land is 100% developable.
With the floodplain/forest put back in, the city's density is 3826.6.
Assuming I was way off by using 25 sq miles, let's say all that stuff added up to 35 sq miles actually; that value would put Dallas's density at 4,274 people per square mile. So, you can see where those two numbers would fall in these lists.

[R1070]

Greyhound it closing it's downtown terminal this October! yay

[itsjrd1964]

Greyhound it closing it's downtown terminal this October! yay

Well, where are all the passengers going to go? Fort Worth? Or a new terminal somewhere else?

[R1070]

Not sure at this point.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

Greyhound it closing it's downtown terminal this October! yay

Well, where are all the passengers going to go? Fort Worth? Or a new terminal somewhere else?

They will relocate somewhere else in the city.

[Tucy I]

Office Space Occupied in Central Dallas (per Transwestern)

CBD
4th Q 2012: 27,209,000
3rd Q 2020: 22,950,000
1st Q 2023: 18,897,254
2nd Q 2023:18,756,594
4th Q 2023:19,192,705

Uptown/Turtle Creek
4th Q 2012: 10,396,000
3rd Q 2020: 12,367,000
1st Q 2023: 10,470,107
2nd Q 2023: 10,559,627
4th Q 2023: 10,933,529

Greater Downtown Dallas
4th Q 2012: 37,605,000
3rd Q 2020: 35,317,000
1st Q 2023: 29,367,361
2nd Q 2023: 29,316,221
4th Q 2023: 30,126,234

Stemmons Corridor
4th Q 2012: 12,135,718
3rd Q 2020: 12,514,121
1st Q 2023: 8,363,275
2nd Q 2023: 8,295,095
4th Q 2023: 8,625,285

Preston Center
4th Q2012: 4,576,398
3rd Q 2020: 5,019,585
1st Q 2023: 4,121,411
2nd Q 2023: 4,047,774
4th Q 2023: 4,281,291

Central Expressway
4th Q 2012: 14,263,926
3rd Q 2020: 12,514,121 (This one is not even as "good" as it looks... the 2020 inventory includes Park Central, whereas the 2012 inventory did not.)
1st Q 2023: 11,121,601
2nd Q 2023: 11,019,625
4th Q 2023: 11,043,849

Deep Ellum/East Dallas
4th Q 2012: 2,211,221
3rd Q 2020: 1,529,173
1st Q 2023: 1,211,032
2nd Q 2023: 1,180,422
4th Q 2023: 1,179,426

West LBJ
4th Q 2012: 4,176,724
3rd Q 2020: 3,323,225
1st Q 2023: 2,746,046
2nd Q 2023: 2,806,731
4th Q 2023: 2,702,941

Total Office Space Occupied in these Central Dallas Submarkets:
4th Q 2012: 74,968,987 square feet
3rd Q 2020: 70,217,225 square feet.
1st Q 2023: 56,930,726 square feet
2nd Q 2023: 56,665,868
4th Q 2023: 57,959,026