Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Downtown Progress

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 27 Dec 2018 19:07

The article is an opinion piece written by Kourtney G. from Downtown Dallas Inc. Its merely a cheerleading article meant to just stir up interest from those who may be interested in the work Downtown Dallas Inc is doing. It's just another PR piece for those who don't know the nuts and bolts of what's really going on. I would largely ignore it. There are some positives but she is just doing what Downtown Dallas Inc does which is add a curtain over the details of what's not working and still needs work.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 27 Dec 2018 22:18

Downtown needs better sidewalk And more Residential

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eburress
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby eburress » 28 Dec 2018 09:48

Indeed, and fewer dead zones.

willyk
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby willyk » 29 Dec 2018 04:35

I agree—-I think that a lot of downtown land sits idle for decades because it is zoned and priced for 50 story office towers that the market will not support.

The low rise residential in the Farmers Market seems to be doing well. If developers don’t want to be that low, then some 10-12 story residential like City Lights would make for some nice projects that would do well downtown.

As far as retail, I think VP is setting a good example. They are bringing in a good mix of destination restaraunts plus franchises and service businesses that will serve the locals. That would work downtown too.

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Cbdallas
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Cbdallas » 30 Aug 2019 13:12

It is time for Dallas to develop a new plan for urban growth in and around downtown and become the leader for the entire region of this part of the US. Dallas City Center can offer what no suburb or other smaller city can offer the truly dense urban experience.

Similar to this: https://archpaper.com/2019/08/dtla-2040/

lakewoodhobo
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby lakewoodhobo » 04 Sep 2019 08:03

Cbdallas wrote:It is time for Dallas to develop a new plan for urban growth in and around downtown and become the leader for the entire region of this part of the US. Dallas City Center can offer what no suburb or other smaller city can offer the truly dense urban experience.

Similar to this: https://archpaper.com/2019/08/dtla-2040/


The 2011 Downtown 360 plan was updated in 2017 with a vision that focused on further connecting the core through "Catalytic Development Areas" like the HSR area, the "western Farmers Market" and the "northern West End". This is already happening thanks to public investment in the new parks and private investment in the East Quarter, Uber, etc.

I'd wait to update the plan again until the downtown parks are finished and we know if HSR and Harold Simmons Park move forward or what'll happen with 345. Those three projects are transformative by themselves, and together they would propel downtown to a whole new era. If some or none of them come to fruition by 2022 or 23, then the updated plan should focus on moving forward without them.

willyk
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby willyk » 21 Sep 2019 03:50

We have a new neighborhood in real estate parlance...”North Downtown

Designed by BOKA Powell, Victory Commons is Hillwood Urban and USAA Real Estate's answer to growing demand for office space in the Uptown and North Downtown Dallas markets


https://www.bisnow.com/dallas-ft-worth/ ... 100898#ath

I45Tex
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby I45Tex » 21 Sep 2019 16:09

That is the journalist who filed an article this week about how real estate investors are concerned about the DFW market's shrinking margins, alongside an article describing Houston's market as "underrated." I suppose if you don't count as negative margins any of the holding costs of fifty to sixty million empty square feet on the sidelines of their office market, the rates for premium product still look pretty good! Bisnow usage of North Downtown may not indicate very much.

itsjrd1964
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby itsjrd1964 » 22 Sep 2019 09:23

"North Downtown" sounds about as whatever and made-up as "South Victory". Neither area is really big enough IMO to have any kind of directional adjuncts. It would be as awkward sounding as "West Preston Hollow" or "East Design District".

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Cord1936
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Cord1936 » 25 Sep 2019 22:31

Economic development campaign video just released by Downtown Dallas Inc.:

https://youtu.be/pvphLk7OWic

Article in D Magazine referencing video's release:

https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2019/09/are-you-ready-to-run-through-a-brick-wall-to-sign-a-lease-in-downtown-dallas/

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 25 Sep 2019 23:48

This video has the background music of some epic battle scene in a movie. I don't get why the chose this.

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Jbarn
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Jbarn » 26 Sep 2019 06:05

16,000 college students, 30 schools, 30 arts and entertainment centers....they must have pushed the downtown boundaries out pretty far.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 26 Sep 2019 09:24

Jbarn wrote:16,000 college students, 30 schools, 30 arts and entertainment centers....they must have pushed the downtown boundaries out pretty far.


Yeah, it's weird. Because they say 12K residents. Which refers to CBD. But then say 30 schools. Where are these schools exactly?

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eburress
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby eburress » 26 Sep 2019 12:33

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:This video has the background music of some epic battle scene in a movie. I don't get why the chose this.


Cool video, but I also thought the score was odd.

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tucy » 27 Feb 2020 13:50

Transwestern's 4th quarter 2019 office market report.

Dallas CBD has 32.6 million square feet of office space (down from 33.3 million square feet in 2017), 7.4 million of which is vacant (about 100,000 square feet less vacant space than 2017), for an overall vacancy rate of 22.6% (up 0.1% from 2017). 2019 net absorption: 66,055 square feet.

For Class A space, the CBD has 23.9 million square feet (up from 23.4 million square feet in 2017), 6.1 million of which is vacant (200,000 square feet more vacancy than 2017), for a vacancy rate of 25.4 (up 0.2%) from 2017). 2019 net absorption: 73,160 square feet.

Uptown/Turtle Creek has 13.7 million square feet (the same as in 2017), with 2 million vacant (up from 1.4 million vacant in 2017), for an overall vacancy rate of 14.5% (up from 10.6% in 2017). 2019 net absorption: 597,892 square feet.

For Class A space Uptown/Turtle Creek has 11.3 million square feet (up from 10.9 million in 2017), with 1.6 million vacant (up from 1.1 million vacant in 2017), for a 14.2 % vacancy rate (up from 9.7% in 2017). 2019 net absorption: 518,649 square feet.

Combined, our greater downtown area has 46.3 million square feet of office space (down from 47 million in2017), with 9.3 million square feet vacant (up from 8.9 million square feet vacant in 2017), for an overall vacancy rate of 19.2% (up from 19% in 2017). 2019 net absorption: 663,947 square feet.

For Class A space, the greater downtown area has 35.2 million square feet (up from 34.3 million in 2017), with 7.7 million square feet vacant (up from 7.4 million in 2017), for a Class A vacancy rate of 21.9% (up from 21.5% in 2017. 2019 net absorption: 591,8090 square feet.

The front page of the report also includes this interesting note:
Although it is no secret that West Plano and Uptown Dallas rank as
top submarkets for job growth in the country, 2019 marked a tipping point between the two. Forecasts are now indicating that office-using employment growth in the West Plano submarket will remain substantially higher than the Dallas city center and total employment will surpass it by the end of 2024.
West Plano will house over 187,931 office workers by 2025−the same as Uptown/Turtle Creek and Dallas CBD combined

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dukemeredith
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby dukemeredith » 27 Feb 2020 15:44

Very insightful. Thanks, Tucy.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 27 Feb 2020 16:56

Sprawl baby

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jetnd87
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby jetnd87 » 27 Feb 2020 20:10

Ugh. Not shocked, but hate to see it

I45Tex
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby I45Tex » 28 Feb 2020 09:35

The West Plano submarket (which Transwestern calls "Upper Tollway/Legacy") has 30.2 million square feet of office space (plus 1.4 more underway).

On the face of it, it seems off to predict that they are about to house more folks within 31.6 than DT/UT/TC can in 46.3 million existing office with 0.9 more underway. The relative levels of floorplate inefficiency and vacancy, and the amount of additional space that could be completed before 2025, don't begin to make it make sense.

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mdg109
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby mdg109 » 10 Apr 2020 12:11

I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this, but I was wondering what the state of downtown will be once we slowly reopen in a month or two. I read the D magazine article on Headington, which is disappointing, but it also leaves me optimistic about what we can do better. I still think more residential and lower-end retail (e.g. Urban Target) would be great, but I'd like to get other's thoughts on what a better downtown could look like post the pandemic.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 10 Apr 2020 15:31

^ After what's happened in NYC I think you'll find even fewer people will be less interested in the density thing.

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anon
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby anon » 10 Apr 2020 20:57

Hannibal Lecter wrote:^ After what's happened in NYC I think you'll find even fewer people will be less interested in the density thing.


That would be unfortunate, especially since the most hard-hit counties in the US are mostly rural or suburban.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 11 Apr 2020 02:31


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anon
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby anon » 11 Apr 2020 03:49

Hannibal Lecter wrote:Simply not true.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... in-us.html


Yes, it is. Long Island, Westchester, and Rockland counties all have higher cases per capita than NYC. Blaine County Idaho, Southwestern Georgia, Colorado and rural Lousiana are also being hit especially hard.

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mdg109
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby mdg109 » 11 Apr 2020 10:38

The good thing is that we have space to plan for what we want. I doubt we'll ever get to the density level of New York or Tokyo any time soon. But I do understand the fear - I never want to be on a cruise ship ever, tbh. I live in a townhome in lower Greenville, and being quarantined here isn't so bad. I see people in the balconies, the neighborhoods are walkable, and we can pick up takeout from restaurant patios if we want.

Does anyone have info on downtown. Are the restaurants able to stay open delivering to downtown residents?

DPatel304
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby DPatel304 » 11 Apr 2020 10:55

anon wrote:
Hannibal Lecter wrote:Simply not true.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... in-us.html


Yes, it is. Long Island, Westchester, and Rockland counties all have higher cases per capita than NYC. Blaine County Idaho, Southwestern Georgia, Colorado and rural Lousiana are also being hit especially hard.


What sorts of precautions are these rural counties taking compared to NYC?

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby tamtagon » 11 Apr 2020 12:36

Southwest Georgia was caught off guard, secure in mind and body that the virus would eventually but slowly make it's way to the middle of nowhere; also pretty sure that the virus at its worse was a bad flu. They didn't think it would happen there, but it did.

Anyway, the impact of a virus pandemic on population density will be temporary. Downtown Dallas population will continue to grow.

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tucy » 21 May 2020 16:23

Transwestern's 1st quarter 2020 office market report.

Dallas CBD
31.1 million square feet of office space (down from 33.3 million in 2017)
7.9 million vacant
Vacancy rate: 25.3% (up 2.8 percentage points from 2017)
1st Q 2020 net absorption: -436,903 square feet.
259,230 square feet under construction.

CBD Class A space
23.9 million square feet (up from 23.4 million in 2017)
6.6 million vacant (700,000 square feet more vacancy than 2017)
Vacancy rate: 27.5% (up 2.3 percentage points from 2017)
1st Q 2020 net absorption: -409,549 square feet.

Uptown/Turtle Creek
15 million square feet (up from 13.7 million 2017)
2.1 million vacant (up from 1.4 million vacant in 2017)
Vacancy rate: 14.3% (up from 10.6% in 2017)
1st Q 2020 net absorption: -186,792 square feet.

Uptown/Turtle Creek Class A space
12.5 million square feet (up from 10.9 million in 2017)
1.8 million vacant (up from 1.1 million vacant in 2017)
Vacancy rate: 14.1% (up from 9.7% in 2017)
1st Q 2020 net absorption: -165,611 square feet.
656,774 square feet under construction.

Greater Downtown area
46.1 million square feet of office space (down from 47 million in 2017)
10 million square feet vacant (up from 8.9 million square feet vacant in 2017)
Vacancy rate: 21.8% (up from 19% in 2017)
1st Q 2020 net absorption: -623,695 square feet
916,004 square feet under construction.

Greater Downtown Class A space
36.4 million square feet (up from 34.3 million in 2017)
8.3 million square feet vacant (up from 7.4 million in 2017)
Vacancy rate: 22.9% (up from 21.5% in 2017
1st Q 2020 net absorption: -575,160 square feet.

Last quarter, Transwestern noted that job growth in the West Plano submarket is substantially higher than in the city center and that office employment in the West Plano submarket is projected to exceed that in the CBD and Uptown/Turtle Creek combined by the end of 2024. So I thought it would be useful to start tracking the Upper Tollway/Legacy submarket:
30.2 million square feet
4.7 Million Square Feet vacant
Vacacny Rate: 15.7%
1st Q 2020 absorption: 80,134 square feet
1.2 million square feet under construction

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby tamtagon » 21 May 2020 16:57

Thanks Tucy

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Warrior2015
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Warrior2015 » 10 Aug 2020 14:36

I wish downtown dallas had a vision similar to this of seattle for the decade.

https://youtu.be/mxc-J1oqhsQ

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tucy » 10 Aug 2020 15:17

I posted this in response to a question in the Smart District thread, but it fits the topic here, so I thought I should add it here"

According to Transwestern's office market reports, at the end of 2017, 25,798,000 square feet of office space was occupied in the CBD and another 11,854,000 square feet was occupied in Uptown, for a greater downtown occupied space total of 37,652,000 square feet.

Now, in mid-2020, the CBD has only 23,400,000 square feet occupied and Uptown has 12,812,000 square feet occupied, for a greater downtown occupied space total of 36,214,000;

Almost 1.5 Million less office space is occupied in greater downtown than 2 1/2 years ago. In the traditional downtown (CBD), occupancy dropped almost 2.4 million square feet in 2 1/2 years.

I45Tex
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby I45Tex » 10 Aug 2020 16:08

Does that total include Design District and Old Parkland? Will it include Baylor’s 300Ksf in Deep Ellum when it opens later this year?

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quixomniac
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby quixomniac » 10 Aug 2020 16:10

Warrior2015 wrote:I wish downtown dallas had a vision similar to this of seattle for the decade.

https://youtu.be/mxc-J1oqhsQ


Their renderings need more homeless people. :D
Jk. We have alot going for us here too, but we can't seem to get out of our own way.
The Trinity river park or whatever its called now, should have given us some kind of momentum.
But who knows when or if it will happen

They have their waterfront to built towards, while we have sprawl in every direction except the Trinity. Their waterfront funnels and gives their downtown density. Whereas we have no incentive otherwise. If development ever reaches the trinity and crosses over, it would finally feel like one cohesive city center, instead of a bunch of districts loosely tied together with parking lots/highways in the middle. One thing I liked about Seattle is the ability to walk between different areas without being sure where one area ended and the other started. Seamless!
Last edited by quixomniac on 10 Aug 2020 17:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Warrior2015
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Warrior2015 » 10 Aug 2020 17:01

quixomniac wrote:
Warrior2015 wrote:I wish downtown dallas had a vision similar to this of seattle for the decade.

https://youtu.be/mxc-J1oqhsQ


Their renderings need more homeless people. :D
Jk. We have alot going for us here too, but we can't seem to get out of our own way.
The Trinity river park or whatever its called now, should have given us some kind of momentum.
But who knows when or if it will happen

They have their waterfront to built towards, while we have sprawl in every direction except the Trinity. They waterfront funnels and gives their downtown density. Whereas we have to incentive otherwise. If development ever reaches the trinity and crosses over, it would finally feel like one cohesive city center, instead of a bunch of districts loosely tied together with parking lots/highways in the middle. One thing I liked about Seattle is the ability to walk between different areas without being sure where one area ended and the other started. Seamless!


I feel like there still is no real vision and most of the good proposals just seem to be "just proposals " and can never seem to come to fruition. Dont get me wrong, I'm super proud of where the core is compared to a few years ago and alot has happened ,but I still would like to see more emphasis on improved infrastructure, connectivity, and even more transit oriented development.

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tucy » 10 Aug 2020 17:27

I45Tex wrote:Does that total include Design District and Old Parkland? Will it include Baylor’s 300Ksf in Deep Ellum when it opens later this year?


It includes Old Parkland. It does not include Design Disrict or Deep Ellum.

I45Tex
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby I45Tex » 10 Aug 2020 18:44

Thanks. The submarket area that they have to measure to encircle 30MMsf for "West Plano" reminds me of the old days when Dallas' boomgrowthstats would get compared to Boston or St. Louis'... which only have (checking) 48 and 61 square miles of land for comparison growth to occur in. If Dallas' numbers had likewise been measured only within its 1940s municipal limits of 41 square miles it wouldn't have been blowing them out of the water...
So neither does the West Plano growth feel like big news, when the core submarket is so much tidier and geographically tinier that Deep Ellum isn't even being counted. A lot of its appreciation in market value is based on the hope of continued momentum, not on proven staying power. Honestly the same criticism should have been leveled at Dallas compared to Boston and yes even St. Louis.

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tucy » 10 Aug 2020 18:50

I45Tex wrote:Thanks. The submarket area that they have to measure to encircle 30MMsf for "West Plano" reminds me of the old days when Dallas' boomgrowthstats would get compared to Boston or St. Louis'... which only have (checking) 48 and 61 square miles of land for comparison growth to occur in. If Dallas' numbers had likewise been measured only within its 1940s municipal limits of 41 square miles it wouldn't have been blowing them out of the water...
So neither does the West Plano growth feel like big news, when the core submarket is so much tidier and geographically tinier that Deep Ellum isn't even being counted. A lot of its appreciation in market value is based on the hope of continued momentum, not on proven staying power. Honestly the same criticism should have been leveled at Dallas compared to Boston and yes even St. Louis.


That West Plano thing really stuck in your craw, didn't it? It hadn't been mentioned since May . . . ;-)

But since you brought up the idea of the larger central Dallas market. Let's look at the broader area. Transwestern includes has the following submarkets:

CBD (dropped about 2.4 Million Square feet since 2017)
Uptown/Turtle Creek (added almost 1 Million)
Stemmons Corridor (dropped 3.1 Million)
Preston Center (added almost 100,000)
Central Expressway (dropped 3.1 Million)
Deep Ellum/East Dallas (dropped 2.3 Million)
and for good measure, let's throw in West LBJ and East LBJ:
West LBJ (dropped about 600,000)
East LBJ (dropped about 100,000)

So in 2 1/2 years, Central Dallas (very broadly defined) lost almost 11 million square feet of office occupancy.

I45Tex
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby I45Tex » 10 Aug 2020 21:38

Yes. Interesting!

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 17 Aug 2020 14:46

Why downtown Dallas walkin’ man Mike Rhyner is trying to keep the faith amid the pandemic and protests

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/comment ... -protests/

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 17 Aug 2020 21:15

I was in downtown Wednesday night. I actually thought it was quite lively for week day. This is where having more people in downtown can help mitigate these closures.

The workforce really is hurting the businesses that rely on the lunch crowd. I can only imagine that all the tunnel restaurants are done.

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eburress
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby eburress » 18 Aug 2020 08:17

That was a really good article about the Old Grey Wolf. Thanks for sharing, HL!

If the tunnel restaurants *are* done, I think this is the perfect opportunity to close that thing down for good.

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Jbarn
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Jbarn » 18 Aug 2020 08:56

Hannibal Lecter wrote:Why downtown Dallas walkin’ man Mike Rhyner is trying to keep the faith amid the pandemic and protests

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/comment ... -protests/


I wonder if other big city downtowns are hurting as bad as Dallas?

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 18 Aug 2020 10:44

Jbarn wrote:I wonder if other big city downtowns are hurting as bad as Dallas?


This commentary has been blowing up the Interwebs: https://nypost.com/2020/08/17/nyc-is-de ... -altucher/

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 18 Aug 2020 11:24

I think looking at Asian countries who've dealt with epidemics more recently are a good proxy on how to determine how downtowns react to these circumstances. American cities haven't experienced anything like this in over 100 yrs. So it's really myopic to say, city centers will never bounce back... They will. But we have lots to learn about this still.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 18 Aug 2020 11:31

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:I think looking at Asian countries who've dealt with epidemics more recently are a good proxy on how to determine how downtowns react to these circumstances. American cities haven't experienced anything like this in over 100 yrs. So it's really myopic to say, city centers will never bounce back... They will. But we have lots to learn about this still.

Interesting view


Will COVID-19 End the Downtown Comeback? Don't Bet on It.

https://www.governing.com/assessments/W ... on-It.html
Last edited by Tivo_Kenevil on 18 Aug 2020 18:11, edited 1 time in total.

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eburress
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby eburress » 18 Aug 2020 15:37

Hannibal Lecter wrote:
Jbarn wrote:I wonder if other big city downtowns are hurting as bad as Dallas?


This commentary has been blowing up the Interwebs: https://nypost.com/2020/08/17/nyc-is-de ... -altucher/


New York is screwed right now, and like the author contented, possibly forever. One thing the author understated though was the effect the riots had on the city. de Blasio's actions, or lack thereof, caused potentially irreparable damage to the city. I love New York and what's happened is a true shame.

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby tamtagon » 18 Aug 2020 16:01

What happened to NYC after the last pandemic?

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mdg109
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby mdg109 » 18 Aug 2020 16:23

I just read that article, and I think that was the state of downtown several weeks ago. I go to downtown to run and exercise at least once a week in the evenings, and there's a decent amount of activity for being in a pandemic. Pacific Park is always active with a fair number of people, Discovery District is really popular, and any restaurant with decent patio space looks to be consistently active: Tarte Tropezienne, The Wings place on Main, ChopHouse Burger, City Tavern, everything at the Wilson Building. Most of the plywood on windows has been taken down.

I will say, the biggest deterrent right now to getting back to the perception of feeling safe is the visible homelessness in places that don't have a lot of activity (Pegasus Plaza, West End station, Main Street Garden). Weekends also feel a little unsafe after dark, just because you don't know when things will turn. I have seen more police/security presence in active areas, so that helps.

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vman
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby vman » 19 Aug 2020 07:23

mdg109 wrote:
I will say, the biggest deterrent right now to getting back to the perception of feeling safe is the visible homelessness in places that don't have a lot of activity (Pegasus Plaza, West End station, Main Street Garden). Weekends also feel a little unsafe after dark, just because you don't know when things will turn. I have seen more police/security presence in active areas, so that helps.

I've definitely noticed that since things have been shut down, the homeless population is much more visible in certain areas of downtown. That should change once offices and other businesses are back open. I usually visit downtown on weekends and it seems pretty lively all things considering.

I remember I passed through Deep Ellum one Saturday before the second shutdown and it was packed; almost like old times. I haven't been down there since then. I hope it survives this too.

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Progress

Postby Tucy » 21 Aug 2020 14:30

Lenders watch landmark downtown Dallas skyscraper for default
Bryan Tower has been placed under special servicing as occupancy levels fall with Baylor move.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... r-default/


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