Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Saw there wasn't a thread for this on the new forum, so decided to make one.

According to this article:http://www.dallasnews.com/business/business/2016/06/03/developer-eyeing-40-story-apartment-tower-on-high-profile-downtown-dallas-site, Ross Perot Jr's Hilllwood Urban has designed a ~50 storey-tower for the former BoA motorcourt site downtown:

Ross Perot Jr.’s Hillwood Urban owns the former Bank of America motor bank property just north of the property Amli is considering. Hillwood Urban has designed an almost 50-story office tower for that block.

Noticed yesterday evening that this site appears to have been completely cleared and fenced off. Any news?

Looks like Hillwood's application to create a single plat on that land known as 2012 Field St. was approved by the city: http://dallascityhall.com/government/me ... 67-041.PDF

Here's what I'm assuming is a way preliminary design study. Though HOK signed on 2.5 years ago, so who knows. Regardless, all they're doing is getting everything prepped so that if/when they find some anchor tenants they can get started right away. http://www.dallasnews.com/business/busi ... las-corner

I looked at the PDF. Looks like they're doing preliminary work for access/ utilities to the plot.

BOKA Powell has also put this out there. Probably nothing more than just a concept

Commercial
Guapo Downtown
Dallas, Texas/1,300,000 square feet

An exploration of the maximum density of a landmark site in downtown Dallas, the 20-story “Guapo” concept combines 500,000 rentable square feet of commercial office space, 231 hotel rooms, parking to accommodate 1,400 vehicles, and 16,000 square feet of ground floor retail into a striking vertical mass.

http://www.bokapowell.com/project/guapo-downtown/

Why that name lol

1.3 million square feet in only 20 stories would be quite something. A tank of a building. Gotta say I like the one from the DMN story much better.

maconahey wrote:...into a striking vertical mass.

Fountain Place is a striking vertical mass, Guapo Downtown es no guapo

Maybe they meant 'Gordo'?

Though, it may be a landmark site, that is the furthest from a landmark building. I don't like it at all.

It's not a bad looking building but BOKA Powell's proposal is much less striking.

Are you kidding me? This is a HUGE letdown. There is so much potential for that site and that is what they have come up with? So much for that "monumental" tower Perot was boasting about.

tanzoak wrote:1.3 million square feet in only 20 stories would be quite something. A tank of a building. Gotta say I like the one from the DMN story much better.

What's odd is that the renderings clearly show a building that is well over 20 stories tall.

For real this looks generic. Iconic is anything but this.

Let's not all freak out now. Keep in mind that the first (more attractive) picture is the one that Hillwood itself submitted for the DMN article in July. Considering that design also fits more with all the other info they've been putting out about the project, I'd put my money on that one. They do a lot of work with BOKAPowell, and that firm may have just drawn something up to see if Hillwood might bite.

I'd be surprised if Perot goes with that design.

Whoah

Round skyscraper by famed architect would remake Dallas' skyline
http://www.dallasnews.com/business/real ... as-skyline

*looks up, moves to edge of chair*

This would be a gamechanger!

Thoughts on the likelihood this gets built?

this would take our top notch skyline to an even higher notch - if thats possible haha

A building with even half that beauty and prominence would solidify this end of the Arts District.

I was personally hoping for something reminencent of "The Shard" (London) or the Transamerica (SF). A needle top building would look amazing for Dallas IMO.


This is cool. But not really our style I think.

I love the height but I hope they settle on a much more elegant design than just a big cylinder. This looks like the crap built in the late 70s in Atlanta (Peachtree Tower), Detroit (Renaissance Center), and also proposed in Dallas back then. 40 years goes by and this is what we get??? I REALLY hope this is just a rough, initial draft.

I am going to reserve my harsh criticism until detailed renderings are released. From the looks of it...the new building looks taller than the BOA Plaza.

Foster is one of the great architects of our time. I trust his design will be polished to something of fantastic character and substance. This is NOT the final design. The article states that this is a rough draft.

dukemeredith wrote:A building with even half that beauty and prominence would solidify this end of the Arts District.

How so?...If anything I see a risk. Hopefully we avoid the Dallas way of building this skyscraper. All of the major Towers we have suck at the Ground level.

They're fortresses. Hell the BoA doesn't even have a sidewalk. And Fountain place has zero street presence as well. They're travesties up close and beauties from a far.

And no that's not a compliment! Ugh!

And let's not forget we're talking about Perot here. He isn't exactly a sure fire developer. Hopefully Perot doesn't pull a VP and fail again at creating a pedestrian friendly environment!

joshua.dodd wrote:Foster is one of the great architects of our time. I trust his design will be polished to something of fantastic character and substance. This is NOT the final design. The article states that this is a rough draft.

The Bow in Calgary has been built (I was just there), and while it does seem polished, its shape really isn't very elegant. I seriously hope this isn't our version of the Bow.

I'm curious if Hillwood will start construction on this without an anchor tenant? Hines got 609 Main underway Houston as a spec development and have done quite well leasing so far. I'm sure they had a good prospect list from the outset but nobody was signed up when they broke ground. I wonder if Hillwood will step out and take a similar risk?

joshua.dodd wrote:Foster is one of the great architects of our time. I trust his design will be polished to something of fantastic character and substance. This is NOT the final design. The article states that this is a rough draft.

I can't help but think this is simply Perot letting would be Tennants know "...Hey BTW...I got something here..."

I wouldn't be surprised if we're no where close to building something. I'll be surprised if we get something started soon.

Seems like a Marketing move to me.

How so?...If anything I see a risk. Hopefully we avoid the Dallas way of building this skyscraper. All of the major Towers we have suck at the Ground level.

They're fortresses. Hell the BoA doesn't even have a sidewalk. And Fountain place has zero street presence as well. They're travesties up close and beauties from a far.

That's not the "Dallas way of building", that's the modernist era corporate office tower designs from the 80s. Have you seen the Magnolia Building from street level? Quite pedestrian friendly, as was most of Dallas before the 1960s. Again, that's a product of that era of building and design, not the city and its culture.

Yeah, design competitions are legendary ways to drum up interest. You get renderings circulating, blog posts popping up etc. You hope a potential lead tenant says "That's what I am talking about!" and calls Perot for a sniff test. I am not saying it won't happen just that they are still working on getting something off the ground. If you want this one built it will have to find a big name to want to slap its brand on shiny new Dallas.

joshua.dodd wrote:

How so?...If anything I see a risk. Hopefully we avoid the Dallas way of building this skyscraper. All of the major Towers we have suck at the Ground level.

They're fortresses. Hell the BoA doesn't even have a sidewalk. And Fountain place has zero street presence as well. They're travesties up close and beauties from a far.

That's not the "Dallas way of building", that's the modernist era corporate office tower designs from the 80s. Have you seen the Magnolia Building from street level? Quite pedestrian friendly, as was most of Dallas before the 1960s. Again, that's a product of that era of building and design, not the city and its culture.

While partially true you can't blame it all on the era. There were lots of cities who had new construction in the 80's and still had better street-level designs. Dallas culture was one of accommodation and lack of knowledge on the importance of these factors long term effects on the cities overall health. The city had no push back when developers and architects wanted to build gilded 80's castles to office life. Even today the city is tepid on pushing against designs that don't treat the street life as important as the design of the tower from the highway on ramp.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:

dukemeredith wrote:A building with even half that beauty and prominence would solidify this end of the Arts District.

How so?...If anything I see a risk. Hopefully we avoid the Dallas way of building this skyscraper. All of the major Towers we have suck at the Ground level.

They're fortresses. Hell the BoA doesn't even have a sidewalk. And Fountain place has zero street presence as well. They're travesties up close and beauties from a far.

And no that's not a compliment! Ugh!

And let's not forget we're talking about Perot here. He isn't exactly a sure fire developer. Hopefully Perot doesn't pull a VP and fail again at creating a pedestrian friendly environment!

I disagree.

Fountain Place has, of course, the fountains. While they aren't currently up and running, they were and will again be an oasis within our paved downtown. And While the lobby of the building itself has no amenities to pedestrians, are the shaded fountains themselves not enough?

Add to those fountains the garage being built with lower-level retail/restaurant, and the AMLI tower soon to start, and this corner just got a lot better. The true travesty around this part of town are the car parks. . .

Regarding my original statement, the architectural significance of this proposed building, by a world-renown architect, further contributes to the "Arts" District. Presently, FP and the Fairmont aren't considered by laymen to be within the Arts District, though it technically is. FP is the only thing of significance on this end. The proposed building would be another (quite distinctive) architectural piece of art.

Does it have to be either-or, sign of a big commitment or just a marketing ploy ? This has had a long incubation theory. Maybe significant nibbles have emboldened them to push ahead ?

I am going to enjoy believing in this building getting built at least for the weekend. Dallas needs a round tower.

Not a lot of news here other than the architect, right? Note that this piece was published two days after an article about a tour of Perot's new Turtle Creek office. And this article even references that this is on display in the Perot office. Did DMN just see an unpublished rendering as a good attention grabber? Or maybe Perot just handed this out as part of the tour to keep the site in the press?

I like the original design better frankly. But I will withhold judgment until we see the final design. If we ever see it at all. Will this be on the list of Dallas skyscrapers never built?

^^in addition to my comment above, I like the original design if it has similar height to this new one.

Same here. I with they had the original design, just skinnier and taller. This tower needs to be a supertall.

I like the round one a lot better, especially with what looks like garden floors.

I think some people are skeptical that a million sq ft office building can be filled, without a major corporate relocation. As of right now, I don't find anything particularly wrong with the design. Like I said previously, I will reserve my harsh criticism until more renderings are released. So, I can appropriately judge the facade, streetscape, etc.

Just a few thoughts...

I wonder did they ever consider having the top floors as a hotel or a combination of hotel and residences? Mainly, to lower the office square footage to make it easier to attract tenants. JW Marriot is one hotel brand that does not have a presence in Dallas...I could see something like that working here.

Doing a little pie in the sky. (~70 stories in the sky)

How about a fully mixed use building?: Hotel, condo and/ or apartment, office and grocery at the bottom

Foster is probably my favorite architect ever, this is immensely exciting that this could happen. It does'nt seem like one of his stronger skyscraper designs, but I love it from those 2 renders.

Thankfully these rendings came out a week before April 1st. A new 70 story tower in Downtown would be amazing, and solidify that all the small steps that have been improving the neighborhood have been working.

I generally respect architecture that required more thought going into it, but I get the desire for a classically restrained modernist thing. Elegance in that your piece of flair is your lack of pieces of flair. Hopefully the ground plane will be good. The tiara works better than the one on Dallas' 1969 Griffin Square sixty-floor mixed-use cylinder did. But if your sculpture is going to be so structurally expressive, why should the curtain wall outer diagrid bracing remain identical from below to above when it's clear the triangles on the top of the tower are carrying so much less force than the ones at the bottom?

I45Tex wrote: But if your sculpture is going to be so structurally expressive, why should the curtain wall outer diagrid bracing remain identical from below to above when it's clear the triangles on the top of the tower are carrying so much less force than the ones at the bottom?

That diagrid seems to something of a trademark, or at least an easily identifiable trend of a particular artist. Hopefully the good times keep on rolling and the next vanity piece is as experimental and time sensitive.

This needs to be mixed use and they should aim for it being the tallest in Dallas & Texas & the Southern U.S.

If it's taller than BofA I will be thrilled. Finally break that barrier. Also agree on mixed use, this is an opportunity to change the game on a massive scale. Set a new standard for how these huge towers are designed and built.

They should aim for making it the tallest building West of the Mississippi River. Dallas' tallest have traditionally held this title. We need to reclaim that title once again. And without a cheater spire!