Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

I'm sure this project will add to the existing vibrancy of the neighborhood... /s

I expect nothing for this corner of downtown and it's still disappointing.

I don’t have any evidence to back it up but I highly doubt there is a parking shortage Downtown especially with the declining office space occupancy and the workers gone remote who will never return.

This seems incredibly short sighted, and the fact that the garage will be leased by Dallas County further cements my opinion that this will be a major waste of money.

I dislike it, but I suppose I'll take it.

I agree, I really doubt there is a parking shortage, but I hope that additional parking spaces might encourage development on some of these other surface lots? I also wouldn't mind if this ended up looking like Phase 1 of the 2000 Ross development either.

I still think it's a lame development, but I'm trying to be optimistic, and I'm really just eager to get more of these surface lots developed.

If I'm reading correctly, it'll replace the WFAA Plaza. I've always hated that "park" b/c it looked so half baked. So in that sense, I'll take it as well. At least this one has a retail element, unlike the First Baptist monster garages.

mdg109 wrote:If I'm reading correctly, it'll replace the WFAA Plaza. I've always hated that "park" b/c it looked so half baked. So in that sense, I'll take it as well. At least this one has a retail element, unlike the First Baptist monster garages.

I have to agree. The WFAA Plaza was more of just a lawn than a park. I'm not sad to see it go. Plus, 1200 parking spaces, if allowed for public use, makes it so much easier for people to find parking down there. This bodes wells for future retail and events.

I think a modern parking structure and some retail could be a little shot in the arm for the undeveloped lots around there.

mdg109 wrote:If I'm reading correctly, it'll replace the WFAA Plaza. I've always hated that "park" b/c it looked so half baked. So in that sense, I'll take it as well. At least this one has a retail element, unlike the First Baptist monster garages.

Yes, you're right, it is the Plaza. For some reason, I was thinking it was one of the surface lots around there.

R1070 wrote:I think a modern parking structure and some retail could be a little shot in the arm for the undeveloped lots around there.

I think so too. The article also mentions the potential to build additional office space on top. I'm definitely not holding my breath for anything to happen, but it's good to know that it's still a possibility some 15-20 years down the line when Downtown is looking much more differently than it is today.

People supporting a parking garage taking over a park/green space. In Downtown Dallas, land of parking garages and surface parking. Wow, Downtown really is doomed.

Matt777 wrote:People supporting a parking garage taking over a park/green space. In Downtown Dallas, land of parking garages and surface parking. Wow, Downtown really is doomed.

If it's a park, it sure is a poor attempt at one. It just looks like a vacant grass lot. This section of downtown like East Quarter has lots of little surface lots sprinkled around that could use some new life.

This blows. What an awful, short-sighted development.

Hopefully the parking structure is developed with a potential to redevelop into something else without tearing it down in the future. I think future use should be a big part of any urban 'parking' development at this time.
Some retail in that area - if it fills up - would be welcomed in that part of downtown.

DBadger wrote:Hopefully the parking structure is developed with a potential to redevelop into something else without tearing it down in the future. I think future use should be a big part of any urban 'parking' development at this time.
Some retail in that area - if it fills up - would be welcomed in that part of downtown.

The article says:
Dallas County would also have the potential to construct additional office space on top of the garage.

So yeah, seems like it's possible. It doesn't sound like that's in the short term plans, so I wouldn't expect it anytime soon, but at least it could be possible ~15 years down the line rather than being stuck with this garage.

I am currently living in Tampa-St.Pete and no matter what you or I might think of Florida Man and the usual Florida memes, architecture and development in the major downtown areas here is fabulous compared to Dallas and Houston. Miami, especially is an architectural wonderland with amazing 21st century designs of it's dozens of new high rises--mostly residential and hotel and generally between 30 to 70+ stories. Even in our smaller downtown in St. Pete almost all the recent and the 10 or so new high rises going up would never be built in conservative tight-ass Dallas. Our forum complaints about how the many creative or interesting renderings of proposed Dallas buildings almost never turn out on completion to be other than one more glass box(and I know there are notable exceptions)is sadly true. I love Dallas and I so wish we could get two or three of these international developers to build there. I realize not everyone likes or believes New Park or some of the other Dallas planned mega developments will ever be built, but I do like the boldness they represent and if any one of them makes it to reality, a new standard will have been set.

To the subject at hand: Parking garages have become an incredibly evolving art form in much of the country including here in Florida in downtowns, suburban office parks and even newer high-end glitz shopping districts on both coasts and Orlando. IMO Dallas does not need another monster parking garage anywhere downtown. In short, if it looks like a parking garage, it's basically a failure, utilitarian though it may be. And land costs here in Florida in these high-hazard coastal zones are as high as hell and building costs include hurricane related standards as well.

I agree, it's a very poor development. I have extremely low expectations for this part of Downtown, so I suppose I'd rather just see something happen here rather than nothing.

I realize a parking garage is generally worse than 'nothing', especially when the existing space is green space. However, I'm being a bit optimistic that this may encourage development on some of the surrounding surface lots, bring some retail into the area, and perhaps in 10-15 years we can build an office tower on top of it (like the article says).

I realize what I'm hoping for is definitely a best case scenario though, and it's still not that great. I suppose I'm just tired of hanging on to all these lots waiting for higher quality development.

I have no hopes for this.

Follow-up: https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/TABS/Search/ ... 2021014571

Sounds like it will be similar to the Ross Street garage with retail.

This is the site of an abject failure for historic preservation, when 20 years ago this month, Belo speculatively demolished the Renaissance Place tower for a convention center development that never materialized. The WFAA Plaza park was worse than lipstick on the pig, their transparently pathetic effort to make it look like they intended to bring quality of life to Dallas with a downtown park.

Interesting. I was in Dallas at the time but don't remember that building or its demolition. What a shame though. One of many from a perservational standpoint.

Rebuild that. We need a revival of beautiful and architecturally aesthetic buildings such as that. Dallas is an absolute disgraceful city for all the historical beauties that were destroyed for...parking lots...

R1070 wrote:I think a modern parking structure and some retail could be a little shot in the arm for the undeveloped lots around there.

Agreed, the fact that this has ground floor retail is a win, considering that at the moment this is essentially an unimproved lot.

If this makes redeveloping another surface lot into an actual useful structure, I'm all for it.

And it sounds like it is new parking for County employees added in connection with the renovation of the County buildings. Several other downtown buildings have had to add parking for tenants.

This may just be the cost of doing business to get big tenants in the CBD. A parking structure can always be done better, but I like this more than having the County leave the West End or tear down their historic buildings.

Construction barriers went up today. Guess this one's about to get underway.

I wonder if they will pitch the WFAA radio antenna decoration in a dumpster

I saw a rendering of this garage recently. It wasn't horrible as garages go, at least from what I could see. Seems like it had rounded corners, a decent curtain wall and retail about the bottom.

The retail will help it a lot.

I doubt the retail space will lease. It will be a garage for Dallas County and the retail space will sent empty until another walk up McDonalds takes the space. The developer here is only adding the retail space cause he has to not because he cares if its a valuable part of the neighborhoods growth. Dallas County came to him looking for parking spaces so he is doing that as they requested. Any decoration and extras are also at the County's request I'm sure. There is no overachieving or enthusiasm here. Just a parking garage for government offices with a theoretical offer to build offices on top one day if needed.

Some photo updates from the last few months. Been meaning to post some of these for a while but just never got around to it.


August 17 - last of the trees were taken down. Process began in late July. At least some of them were dug up and relocated; some lower branches and maybe some whole trees were mulched.


September 30 - Construction barriers expanded to occupy a block of Austin St and a lane on Wood St.


Yesterday and today - they've begun tearing up the concrete sidewalks/plaza.

Excavation began today.

There is a rendering of this out there. I may have it somewhere and will look. If anybody else has it maybe they can post it.

Dallas still out here building Parking Garages. Gotta love the dead zones!

This one will be wrapped in retail and have the option for future office space built on top, so it's not a total lost cause.

I've been pretty happy with the garage built at 2000 Ross, and this looks like potentially more of the same.

R1070 wrote:This one will be wrapped in retail and have the option for future office space built on top, so it's not a total lost cause.

Do we actually have any idea of how much retail space is included here? As far as I can tell, all we know is that Steve Brown told us it includes retail space on the ground floor. Is it really "wrapped in retail" or is there a small corner of retail space included?

Tucy wrote:

R1070 wrote:This one will be wrapped in retail and have the option for future office space built on top, so it's not a total lost cause.

Do we actually have any idea of how much retail space is included here? As far as I can tell, all we know is that Steve Brown told us it includes retail space on the ground floor. Is it really "wrapped in retail" or is there a small corner of retail space included?

I feel like Steve Brown is an article hitman for higher. He publishes positive spin on projects, including this one. How can anyone feel good about this, when we don't know much of the aesthetic....will it be another exposed garage, that does little to hide the fact that it's a garage? How much retail will there be? Is the residential project just a ..maybe...

Until we learn more; This project is ass. Dallas do better.

I guess I'm tired of waiting for all these empty lots to develop.

I realize a parking garage is absolutely the worst use of land, and that we would probably be better off with it sitting empty for another five years until something better makes sense. With that said, there really is not shortage of land in the CBD and if additional parking in this area could encourage surrounding development or make something happen, I'm willing to get on board with this. I definitely don't want to see the CBD littered with multiple garages though (which it kinda already is) so I get the pushback on this one.

There is a rendering out there. Its fairly tall, 10-12 floors, rounded corners and appears to be wrapped in what looks like a silver metallic screening of some sort but can't be sure. The retail appears to wrap the entire structure outside of the garage entrance but can only see one side.

Since the County is the big leaser here for the Garage I wonder what types of retail they maybe could get. It's a dead zone for Downtown beyond the hotels so it could be as simple as just another Subway or walk-up McDonalds... but I doubt anything to write home about. I would expect the retail space to mostly sit empty for years until the city rebuilds the convention center and then probably someone will be willing to lease. While I don't need this retail to be more valet-driven retail cause more neighborhood service is always needed downtown it just seems like the retail space will just be future-proofing and not leased for another decade if that. Worst-case scenario the County leases the space as office space before they need more space on top in a later build. Maybe a voting center since the state is forcing the county to provide fewer voting centers around the city so we can protect the legitimacy of the vote...

Recent progress shot. Some of the concrete for the ground floor has been poured, and what appears to be a ramp is taking shape. So far it's not just another prefab garage that goes up quickly.

Yeah, I have been watching this one from a nearby office and its been off and on it appears.

I'm just ready for someone to decide they'd like to build a tower on top of this thing.

How is this parking garage coming along?

Up to the 5th level now.

Sometimes there is a good shot of this garage on WFAA weather pages. Saw one yesterday but looked like it was higher than the 5th level. Was on Pete Delkus Twitter feed.

Lame project

Pic from today

Was downtown Sunday. Damn that building is huge.

Hannibal Lecter wrote:Was downtown Sunday. Damn that building is huge.

Is it finished?