Lower Greenville Development

dallasbeatsaustin · Post by **dallasbeatsaustin** » 16 Jan 2020 18:03

lakewoodhobo wrote:
http://dallas.culturemap.com/news/resta ... Hp6-17msp0

UPDATE 1-16-2020: According to a statement from Taco Cabana, the outcome of the Tango Frogs is still TBD. "At Taco Cabana we understand the importance of the Tango Frogs to the community," the statement says. "We are currently exploring options to ensure that they find a good home."
Well, my idea of a kitschy "Frogtown Plaza" in the West End won't die (in my head anyway). This is where the Tango Frogs belong.

Frogtown Plaza.jpg

Love this idea. I was teaching students about Frog Town the other day. I assume most people in Dallas would not get the reference though.

exelone31 · Post by **exelone31** » 17 Jan 2020 09:24

DPatel304 wrote:Char Bar on Lower Greenville gets new life: Owners of Whiskey Cake and Velvet Taco plan new restaurant
https://outline.com/MzSwfn

For those who don't know, the owners of these restaurants also own Twin Peaks. That is relevant because I found this quote in the article about the Char Bar space (emphasis mine).

The previous restaurant on Greenville Avenue, owned by four Greek brothers, was famous for its low-priced food and can’t-miss-it exterior. Gibbons says the signature “three peaks” shape of the roof will remain but that the restaurant will be gutted.

I think we can all agree what this means: Dallas is going to be the first city in the US to get its own 'Total Recall' (1990) themed restaurant.

DPatel304 · Post by **DPatel304** » 17 Jan 2020 09:37

Hannibal Lecter · Post by **Hannibal Lecter** » 17 Jan 2020 10:30

homeworld1031tx · Post by **homeworld1031tx** » 23 Jan 2020 23:25

Went to Desert Racer again just now and it was packed. Gotta feel bad for the Haymaker guys, they spent all that money renovating the place and then weren't able to find success; these new guys move in with a quick remodel after all the hard work is done and are packed. The restaurant business is a fickle one indeed.

eburress · Post by **eburress** » 24 Jan 2020 11:18

homeworld1031tx wrote:Went to Desert Racer again just now and it was packed. Gotta feel bad for the Haymaker guys, they spent all that money renovating the place and then weren't able to find success; these new guys move in with a quick remodel after all the hard work is done and are packed. The restaurant business is a fickle one indeed.

Desert Racer has been packed each time I've been. I wonder how Flatbread Co. is doing. I've not yet been but when walking by they haven't seemed quite as busy.

Cbdallas · Post by **Cbdallas** » 24 Jan 2020 11:45

I wish they were open daytime on the weekends.

DPatel304 · Post by **DPatel304** » 24 Jan 2020 13:40

homeworld1031tx wrote:Went to Desert Racer again just now and it was packed. Gotta feel bad for the Haymaker guys, they spent all that money renovating the place and then weren't able to find success; these new guys move in with a quick remodel after all the hard work is done and are packed. The restaurant business is a fickle one indeed.

The real test is if Desert racer can sustain the crowds long term (I believe that they will).

I think it was just bad timing for Haymaker. Lower Greenville wasn't as developed back then and didn't stretch as far south as it does now.

Post by **lakewoodhobo** » 18 Feb 2020 10:44

First look: Eight-story apartment project planned for Dallas’ Lower Greenville neighborhood
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... ghborhood/

RangeWater Real Estate last month purchased a 1.25-acre vacant site in the 5700 block of Richmond Avenue just off Greenville.

The property is across the street from the Sam’s Club store and was formerly the site of Pietro’s restaurant.

RangeWater plans to build an 8-story, 236-unit apartment block on the tract.

eburress · Post by **eburress** » 18 Feb 2020 10:59

Wow, I'm stunned! A building of such scale and caliber, built right off Greenville. I'd be shocked if the neighbors don't go apeshit and do everything they can to stop this but I really really hope this happens.

Matt777 · Post by **Matt777** » 18 Feb 2020 12:14

Good stuff. The neighbors are sure to go crazy but if they want the constant turnover of shops and restaurants in that area to stop, there needs to be a little density added. A medium amount of well designed multi family residential and some office will do this area a world of good.

DPatel304 · Post by **DPatel304** » 18 Feb 2020 13:21

I hope this happens! This area definitely needs some more density to sustain all the restaurants popping up in the area.

LongonBigD · Post by **LongonBigD** » 18 Feb 2020 14:42

Propose 8 stories. Listen to nimbys whine. “Compromise” at 5 stories. What does that spell? D-o-n-u-t

eburress · Post by **eburress** » 18 Feb 2020 15:35

Hahaha probably true, but I'd be almost as delighted by a 5 story donut!

DPatel304 · Post by **DPatel304** » 18 Feb 2020 15:41

eburress wrote:Hahaha probably true, but I'd be almost as delighted by a 5 story donut!

Agreed. I realize Lower Greenville is smack dab in the middle of a lot of single family homes, so I don't expect any towers over here, but I do think the area is reaching a point where more density would be good (even if it ends up only being 5 stories).

Cbdallas · Post by **Cbdallas** » 18 Feb 2020 15:51

Would be nice to see this head towards the sky in east Dallas and more like it in that area.

eburress · Post by **eburress** » 18 Feb 2020 17:26

There's a lot of potential for denser development in the area; I just didn't expect it to start East of Greenville. All those parking lots around the Truckyard, all the suburban-style retail along Greenville and Ross, the Sprouts site, up and down Henderson, etc...

Tivo_Kenevil · Post by **Tivo_Kenevil** » 18 Feb 2020 22:12

Unfortunately, this city only pulls off this type of development in parts of the city where people of lesser means reside. I fully expect a battle with LGHA or whatever it's called. The usual suspects will be the complaints ...traffic, attracts vandals,too big etc.

They'll fight this to the bitter end even though it's probably needed.

mjsampey · Post by **mjsampey** » 18 Feb 2020 22:59

I wanted to post about this development last summer because I work at a firm doing part of the design but it's been very hush hush. I can confirm this is happening but as others have said, the owners have had to fight the locals to get this going.

eburress · Post by **eburress** » 19 Feb 2020 07:13

mjsampey wrote:I wanted to post about this development last summer because I work at a firm doing part of the design but it's been very hush hush. I can confirm this is happening but as others have said, the owners have had to fight the locals to get this going.

Thanks for the inside info, mjsampey! Based on the criticisms I've seen so far, affordable housing is one of the gripes and the other is the knee-jerk parking/traffic/congestion concern.

malachi896 · Post by **malachi896** » 23 Feb 2020 14:29

I personally want this to be built, but clearly the opponents haven’t gotten in the last word yet

Post by **tamtagon** » 23 Feb 2020 14:45

Sorry to all the folks who want Lower Greenville and the rest of East Dallas to exist in a vacuum, but change is the nature of the area. Transportation corridors between the single family home neighborhoods are ideal for much higher density residential development; that's the way of the world and the way of East Dallas.

Neighborhood walkability and quality of life improves with thoughtfully placed pockets of high density development.

dzh · Post by **dzh** » 23 Feb 2020 17:28

The more apartments in this neighborhood, the more people to spend money at the restaurants on Greenville Ave. i hear all the time about how the restaurants really believe that there isn’t enough parking on Greenville...seems like more apartments in walking distance is a good way to ensure a customer base that doesn’t need to drive in order to partake. If we really want Dallas to grow up and become an urban city, we really need to allow these types of quality infill developments to be built in non-traditionally urban neighborhoods.

Tivo_Kenevil · Post by **Tivo_Kenevil** » 23 Feb 2020 18:04

My biggest problem with Blewett and all the other hypocrites on the council is they have no problem saying yes to mid rise buildings as long as it's not in their district. Can't have it both ways
If it's allowed in the existing zoning.

malachi896 · Post by **malachi896** » 23 Feb 2020 19:50

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:My biggest problem with Blewett and all the other hypocrites on the council is they have no problem saying yes to mid rise buildings as long as it's not in their district. Can't have it both ways
If it's allowed in the existing zoning.

Couldn't agree more. The NIMBYism down here is frustrating. The Alexan project on the corner of Belmont and Greenville should have been way better, but we got the half-hearted version after all of the opposition. They also significantly delayed the Henderson project, which still hasn't gotten off the ground. Until we get more density in the area, lower greenville is just going to continuously turnover retail. Need to get some solid mid-rise density in the area to make it self sustainable.

malachi896 · Post by **malachi896** » 23 Feb 2020 19:52

dzh wrote:The more apartments in this neighborhood, the more people to spend money at the restaurants on Greenville Ave. i hear all the time about how the restaurants really believe that there isn’t enough parking on Greenville...seems like more apartments in walking distance is a good way to ensure a customer base that doesn’t need to drive in order to partake. If we really want Dallas to grow up and become an urban city, we really need to allow these types of quality infill developments to be built in non-traditionally urban neighborhoods.

I understand this gripe from the restaurants. There is plenty of parking, but its not what the rest of Dallas is used to, which is the ability to just drive in front and plop your car down. As long as these restaurants have to rely on a portion of their business coming from people driving in, it will be an issue. If we get density like this, the local population will be enough and suddenly parking isn't as big of a deal because you don't need the suburban crowd to survive.

R1070 · Post by **R1070** » 23 Feb 2020 21:49

The development at Belmont is awkward and ugly. Something like this would help the neighborhood prosper. The business community there should be pushing for this.

DBadger · Post by **DBadger** » 24 Feb 2020 09:59

How is this any different than the Armstrong @ Knox (on Cole). I believe it is a 7 story and is a great development. I hope it gets built, with some retail as well so the walkability of the neighborhood is not so linear.

Hannibal Lecter · Post by **Hannibal Lecter** » 24 Feb 2020 12:10

"We have to destroy Lower Greenville in order to save it"

Cbdallas · Post by **Cbdallas** » 24 Feb 2020 15:31

Hopefully the "Eastern Blockade" won't be able to stop this and more like them from happening. Grow up not out.

Tivo_Kenevil · Post by **Tivo_Kenevil** » 24 Feb 2020 16:01

Hannibal Lecter wrote:"We have to destroy Lower Greenville in order to save it"

More like....

"We have to save Lower Greenville in order to destroy it".

eburress · Post by **eburress** » 24 Feb 2020 16:36

DBadger wrote:How is this any different than the Armstrong @ Knox (on Cole). I believe it is a 7 story and is a great development. I hope it gets built, with some retail as well so the walkability of the neighborhood is not so linear.

It's not that different. The thing that's different is the populations between the two areas.

Post by **cowboyeagle05** » 24 Feb 2020 17:55

And the percentage of activist homeowners. Knox has townhomes and old apartments. Lower Greenville has lots more historical older homes and homeowners who are longtime activists who fought the bar scene for years. Knox only has a few bars is mostly a restaurant and shopping area. Plus Knox has the Oak Lawn Committee who approves of potential development projects proposed by architects. Lower Greenville doesn't, it has homeowner associations. The Oak Lawn committee takes a lot of wind out of would-be activists because its a semi-official body charged with approving development in certain areas of Dallas. It provides a similar filter but in very different ways including being more pro-development. The two areas have very different cultures to wrestle with to build.

eburress · Post by **eburress** » 24 Mar 2020 17:35

Mini update: RangeWater seems unphased by NIMBYs and global pandemics alike. Their 8-story, 236-unit apartment building on Richmond, behind the Greenville Ave 7-Eleven, appears to be full steam ahead. I don't recall how much of their parking was intended to be underground, but they're excavating a sizable hole. Woohoo!

emmasensei · Post by **emmasensei** » 24 Mar 2020 18:32

I saw quite a lot of active home construction while out on my walk with the dogs today. I do hope those workers are staying safe, but I was also scared about the pandemic's impact on infrastructure (especially Henderson Ave., which is half-done and looks terrible right now).

I hope the city commits to finishing these projects. I was in Florida during the '08 recession and the number of homes that were half-built and abruptly abandoned was just insane (though yes, I know that crisis was very different from this one).

eburress · Post by **eburress** » 24 Mar 2020 19:37

^^ Definitely a valid concern (e.g., the "Hole on Cole," Hall's "stonehenge," etc...). On the bright side I would be surprised if Henderson Ave's reconstruction stopped this close to its finish line considering they should start rebuilding the road surface itself in the next few weeks. I'm more worried about the Open Realty development on Henderson. There were already rumors about it being a rezone-and-flip but under the circumstances I would shocked if it moved forward anytime soon.

Post by **cowboyeagle05** » 25 Mar 2020 14:52

Street projects are still permitted under current restrictions. Street repair, build, redo projects are considered "essential" jobs so the city isn't shutting them down. Basically bars, restaurants, clubs, retail that doesn't supply food or medicine are shut down. Entertainments in all its forms plus gyms. All my friends are still working and have official letters for their jobs because their clients are basically Grocery, Medical or government defense contracts. I don't see them closing down outdoor jobs like local infrastructure construction depending on how bad it gets. Cedar Springs got its new signal light installed this week.

malachi896 · Post by **malachi896** » 25 Mar 2020 16:31

eburress wrote:^^ Definitely a valid concern (e.g., the "Hole on Cole," Hall's "stonehenge," etc...). On the bright side I would be surprised if Henderson Ave's reconstruction stopped this close to its finish line considering they should start rebuilding the road surface itself in the next few weeks. I'm more worried about the Open Realty development on Henderson. There were already rumors about it being a rezone-and-flip but under the circumstances I would shocked if it moved forward anytime soon.

It has been interesting walking around the neighborhood these last couple of weeks. At times I feel like I’m in a walking dead episode with how empty the streets are. I don’t have much concern with the Henderson road construction finishing as it’s a project that has already been funded/contracts signed for. That will definitely see it’s way through. I am worried about the Open Realty project though. Think we will see the empty lots across Henderson for quite some time now.

eburress · Post by **eburress** » 26 Mar 2020 09:47

I think you're right, unfortunately. The rumor already was that it was a rezone-and-flip but without buyers, this (much less desirable outcome) isn't happening either anytime soon.

malachi896 · Post by **malachi896** » 26 Mar 2020 14:48

eburress wrote:I think you're right, unfortunately. The rumor already was that it was a rezone-and-flip but without buyers, this (much less desirable outcome) isn't happening either anytime soon.

The additional unfortunate thing is that the property owners are making/paying for some of the improvements on henderson. Not sure what Open Realty signed up for as part of that, but we will likely have spots of incomplete work.

eburress · Post by **eburress** » 10 Apr 2020 15:59

Construction progress on the eight-story Lower Greenville apartment project. They're plowing along on this one...literally. lol In all seriousness, it's great to see this still in progress and I'm excited about the trend in size/scale this establishes for the area.

A side note: there's a lot of internal construction (i.e., within existing structures) happening up and down Lowest Greenville. It's exciting to see, especially under the circumstances.

mdg109 · Post by **mdg109** » 10 Jun 2020 11:51

The Pints & Quarts off lower Greenville and Ross is being renovated. From looking inside, looks like it's going to be a Mexican food joint.

eburress · Post by **eburress** » 10 Jun 2020 13:48

Sweet! It was a cute old structure that needed some love. Hopefully they can freshen up the exterior as well.

eburress · Post by **eburress** » 14 Aug 2020 12:33

Construction Update: the 8 story apartment project on Richard, just off Greenville, is full steam ahead. I didn't take another photo because it's still just a hole in the ground, but the crane is up and they're making hay!

Aside from the building itself, one thing that excites me about this project is the precedence it sets for the possible scale/density of projects in East Dallas.

R1070 · Post by **R1070** » 14 Aug 2020 13:45

They need more density for Lowest Greenville to thrive.

eburress · Post by **eburress** » 14 Aug 2020 14:44

Indeed! I'm hoping all those surface lots near Standard Services/The Truckyard eventually become buildings of similar scale.

ayomateo · Post by **ayomateo** » 16 Aug 2020 19:23

20200516_120025.jpg

Progress update on the Richmond avenue multi family. There is also a large tower crane on site now.

mdg109 · Post by **mdg109** » 03 Sep 2020 23:21

Progress pics of a few projects on Lowest Greenville this week. Drove by today, and the blue building is going through a reno. Sign says "Son of a Butcher." The old Yucatan space is becoming Manpuku Grille.

jetnd87 · Post by **jetnd87** » 07 Dec 2020 14:16

More exciting LG dining news...the Carte Blanche couple are legit and that bakery is going to give their neighbor across the street, Village Baking Co., a run for its money.

https://dallas.culturemap.com/news/rest ... -char-bar/

exelone31 · Post by **exelone31** » 07 Dec 2020 14:26

jetnd87 wrote:More exciting LG dining news...the Carte Blanche couple are legit and that bakery is going to give their neighbor across the street, Village Baking Co., a run for its money.

https://dallas.culturemap.com/news/rest ... -char-bar/

Will be interesting to see how those two restaurants co-exist, since it sounds like they aren't necessarily direct competitors (even though they are both nominally bakeries).

Son of a Butcher seems like it should be a great fit for Lower Greenville as well, especially in a post-COVID nightlife scene.