Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Just past by there, the apartment complex is completely empty. They have fenced and barricaded the front entrance off Field St. also an earth moving machine is off Houston St. side with other equipment.

Luckily, there's already a CVS next door, so we know they won't just throw one of those on this site. lol

R1070 wrote:Luckily, there's already a CVS next door, so we know they won't just throw one of those on this site. lol

So... prime location for a Walgreens LOL

Prolly a chilli's.

Only in Dallas can 9-15 story buildings be described as "distinctive towers" with a straight face...

Addison wrote:Only in Dallas can 9-15 story buildings be described as "distinctive towers" with a straight face...

LOL Even using the word "towers" is stretching it a bit.

The bit of good news here (assuming it's true), is that they plan to start construction in early 2023 with completion scheduled for early 2026, far ahead of the deadlines set by the city subsidies.

Steve just can't let go of the 80-story fantasy, can he? He mentions it again in this article, and includes renderings showing earlier click-bait plans for taller towers.

Not to comment on the likelihood of the residential/hotel/whatever being built, but I am always thoroughly impressed at the sheer pessimism expressed on here. 900,000 sq feet across three mid-rise office buildings with 5,000, consolidated GS roles. (Before anyone says it - slapdick Jersey back office roles - yea, yea, yea.) That doesn’t seem like a terrible replacement for some garden style apartments?

While most folks here love to shit on Steve Brown, it is somewhat incredible the amount of groaning above - the requirements set forth by the city are a publicly available document! If anyone took the time to actually read it, 95% comments above wouldn’t be required!

Sheesh

This is only for Goldman’s portion of the project right? Prolly got a little ahead of myself and thought it was the entire development. I wasn’t expecting buildings that short. Basically mid-rises.

Perhaps I'm setting the bar too low, but I'm beyond happy with what we are getting. We've seen way too many corporate relocations move to the burbs or to other cities, so Goldman Sachs coming to Uptown seems like a big win to me.

Huge win for Dallas, good press and may motivate others. Worry about the tall stuff in other developments, take this and run.

Given how long it's been since downtown Dallas has seen a new tall development, and there's nothing else promising in the pipeline (except *MAYBE* Portman's project) on the precipice of what may be a severe recession, it is perfectly understandable why folks would be annoyed about this project being underwhelming.

I doubt the majority of the site will be taken up by the 3 short Goldman towers. They are probably just a part of a bigger plan.

Addison wrote:Given how long it's been since downtown Dallas has seen a new tall development, and there's nothing else promising in the pipeline (except *MAYBE* Portman's project) on the precipice of what may be a severe recession, it is perfectly understandable why folks would be annoyed about this project being underwhelming.

I should clarify my post:

It's understandable why folks would be annoyed about the portion of this project most likely to happen being underwhelming.

Lets be clear the reason people are upset is that the developer produced crazy exciting renderings with super tall towers and implied it was what would be built but really was just showing off to grab a lead tenant's attention. AKA CONCEPT RENDERINGS. It worked they got Goldman Sachs on the phone and discussed what they really needed rather than pie-in-the-sky flashy dramatic sweeping glass and steel to the sky. Many of us forumers should know better by now, but people are easily excited when it comes to developers promising gilded glass sculptures and hook, line, and sinker many people believed it cause so many on here want Dallas to be the Dubai of Texas. You have to second guess and third guess every proposal cause since when has a developer built what they initially proposed? Almost never. Urby so far I think is the only example in very recent history and that's not a mixed-use project.

I just noticed another interesting nugget in this latest report. The article says Balfour Beatty is working on a 4.5 acre mixed use project. Earlier we were told the entire site is 11 acres; so yes, it appears there is still room for other buildings.

What a disappointment!

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... wn-dallas/

EDIT: Sorry late to the party.

Tucy wrote:I just noticed another interesting nugget in this latest report. The article says Balfour Beatty is working on a 4.5 acre mixed use project. Earlier we were told the entire site is 11 acres; so yes, it appears there is still room for other buildings.

True. But I’m not confident it’ll happen. It has been hugely downgraded from skyscrapers depicted in the master plan, to mid-rises. Usually, I try to be optimistic about things like this…but it is quite difficult right now. At least we will get better connections with VP and Uptown. That’s the most exciting part about this for me as of now…

I would like to see more of what they have planned in terms of a mixed use development. One of the few bright spots in downtown these days is the AT&T plaza area which is surrounded by a large corporate employer. This could easily be another one, and one next to Victory Park which would help fuel some energy into the development. Have to see more but maybe there is more to celebrate here despite the short towers, which were in no way a surprise.

LPG wrote:Not to comment on the likelihood of the residential/hotel/whatever being built, but I am always thoroughly impressed at the sheer pessimism expressed on here. 900,000 sq feet across three mid-rise office buildings with 5,000, consolidated GS roles. (Before anyone says it - slapdick Jersey back office roles - yea, yea, yea.) That doesn’t seem like a terrible replacement for some garden style apartments?

While most folks here love to shit on Steve Brown, it is somewhat incredible the amount of groaning above - the requirements set forth by the city are a publicly available document! If anyone took the time to actually read it, 95% comments above wouldn’t be required!

Sheesh

I've been on this forum for something around a couple of decades. I've always understood this to be a place to be a bit more realistic on things and not just take everything for face value, but over the last 3 - 5 years, and especially the last 2, this forum has become extremely pessimistic. I could not agree with you more

So is all the parking still going to be underground? The article isn't exactly clear.

This seems like great news to me. The project is zooming ahead, this will liven up the dead zone that is the loading dock, parking garage side of Houston St and connect Victory Park to Uptown. And that's 5,000 workers that weren't there before that will be patronizing the businesses of Victory Park and beyond. The last thing we need is a out-of-scale project that doesn't read the market, that goes into the red souring the waters for further development. We don't need a tower that you'll never go into, casting a bigger shadow on the park they are building. The lots along Field St will become more attractive to finally develop on.

For clarity's sake, Goldman Sachs is already a significant tenant in Trammel Crow tower and renewed its lease a few years ago. They already have a sizable worker population in the CBD. It was previously suggested that they would add some jobs, a few thousand but not 5,000 in total jobs. It's still jobs that are not leaving, plus some new ones, but the campus would be a sidestep for many employees already in the area.

My question is will this make the D2 line pick up pace since it will be next door to this? My other hope is the city or whoever owns the areas underneath Woodall will "liven up" the place. Connect west end to VP.

MC_ScattCat wrote:Connect west end to VP.

This was a 2019 attempt: “The arches will serve as a walkway connecting the West End and Victory Park.”
https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/histo ... a3aa1cb82c

Haven't been down there in a while. Based on your comment, guessing it didn't work.

Kelley USA wrote:So is all the parking still going to be underground? The article isn't exactly clear.

This one is....its below grade with a park on top.

So, what is the 'corporate campus' Balfour Beatty has been tapped to build in Uptown Dallas?

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... allas.html

Sources have told the Dallas Business Journal that Project Meadow is Hunt Realty's hotly-anticipated North End, a development that could serve as a catalyst for further growth at a key gateway positioned between Uptown and downtown Dallas. The project is poised to house 5,000 employees from The Goldman Sachs Group Inc. (NYSE: GS) within the broader 11 acres based on incentive agreements with the City of Dallas.

The Balfour Beatty release said the towers are expected to span nine to 15 levels, covering 890,000 gross square feet comprised of lobby and common spaces, amenities, office areas and outdoor terraces. The mixed-use building site, for which the address was not disclosed in the release, spans about 4.5 acres, including 1.5 acres for a below-grade, structured parking site that will feature a roof-top park.

Nine levels of office with 72 levels of parking to make 81 floors?

R1070 wrote:Nine levels of office with 72 levels of parking to make 81 floors?

No no, the eleventy-billion levels of parking with 1 floor of office is the Harwood special.

They've got machinery in there and stuff is definitely moving.

There are a lot of sizable green pipes laying on the ground along the wall on Houston St.

I've got a front row view of this project and will make it a point to post pics as frequently as I can.

How many apartments been will be lost here? I hope at the very least this project adds a residential component to offset this loss of housing

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:How many apartments been will be lost here? I hope at the very least this project adds a residential component to offset this loss of housing

Good point. 540 apartments. So probably around 700 people were living there.

Tucy wrote:

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:How many apartments been will be lost here? I hope at the very least this project adds a residential component to offset this loss of housing

Good point. 540 apartments. So probably around 700 people were living there.

That's a good chunk. Hopefully, the developer follows through...

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:

Tucy wrote:

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:How many apartments been will be lost here? I hope at the very least this project adds a residential component to offset this loss of housing

Good point. 540 apartments. So probably around 700 people were living there.

That's a good chunk. Hopefully, the developer follows through...

I don't expect any further development of this property for a number of years, if anything else is built at all. The Victor is available in the immediate area to absorb those people who want to live in the area. I think this campus-style development will spread out on the Hunt-owned footprint. As far as any 40 to 80 story towers being added, that's just a pipe dream. There's no room. Maybe they'll build a 15-story Holiday Inn or Hampton Inn Suites.

80 Story CVS incoming

rono3849 wrote:

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:

Tucy wrote:
Good point. 540 apartments. So probably around 700 people were living there.

That's a good chunk. Hopefully, the developer follows through...

I don't expect any further development of this property for a number of years, if anything else is built at all. The Victor is available in the immediate area to absorb those people who want to live in the area. I think this campus-style development will spread out on the Hunt-owned footprint. As far as any 40 to 80 story towers being added, that's just a pipe dream. There's no room. Maybe they'll build a 15-story Holiday Inn or Hampton Inn Suites.

There’s no room…? I doubt they’ll build a 80 story building but there’s room. They’re only building 4.5 acres for the first phase. That leaves 6.5 acres for development.

dallaz wrote:

rono3849 wrote:

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:That's a good chunk. Hopefully, the developer follows through...

I don't expect any further development of this property for a number of years, if anything else is built at all. The Victor is available in the immediate area to absorb those people who want to live in the area. I think this campus-style development will spread out on the Hunt-owned footprint. As far as any 40 to 80 story towers being added, that's just a pipe dream. There's no room. Maybe they'll build a 15-story Holiday Inn or Hampton Inn Suites.

There’s no room…? I doubt they’ll build a 80 story building but there’s room. They’re only building 4.5 acres for the first phase. That leaves 6.5 acres for development.

The "campus" will take up more than 4.5 acres with the additional 2 or more acres of the little park for the accountants to frolic in. LOL. I don't expect much of anything from this development.

rono3849 wrote:

dallaz wrote:

rono3849 wrote:
I don't expect any further development of this property for a number of years, if anything else is built at all. The Victor is available in the immediate area to absorb those people who want to live in the area. I think this campus-style development will spread out on the Hunt-owned footprint. As far as any 40 to 80 story towers being added, that's just a pipe dream. There's no room. Maybe they'll build a 15-story Holiday Inn or Hampton Inn Suites.

There’s no room…? I doubt they’ll build a 80 story building but there’s room. They’re only building 4.5 acres for the first phase. That leaves 6.5 acres for development.

The "campus" will take up more than 4.5 acres with the additional 2 or more acres of the little park for the accountants to frolic in. LOL. I don't expect much of anything from this development.

Per the articles linked above, the 4.5 acres includes the 1.5 acre park.

Indeed, the park is on top of the garage apparently. The garage seems to be also underground, so the park at ground level actually just has a garage underneath. Another announcement/release that could've been worded quite a bit better.

These financiers offices will be the foundation for a big hotel, and couple thousand dwellings, restaurants etc. It'll happen.

First Look from the DMN

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... -downtown/

With 1M square feet of space spread across three 9-15 story buildings, plus the park, there won't be much room for all the 80 story towers! hahaha

For what it's worth, I really like the density and the jobs. I just think they need to stop showing the rendering featuring all the towers. That's not what this is going to be.

eburress wrote:With 1M square feet of space spread across three 9-15 story buildings, plus the park, there won't be much room for all the 80 story towers! hahaha

For what it's worth, I really like the density and the jobs. I just think they need to stop showing the rendering featuring all the towers. That's not what this is going to be.

sigh…..but at least it’s something.

I agree 100%. The renderings they’re showing we’re not getting.

Kelley USA wrote:First Look from the DMN

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... -downtown/

Not bad, like to see more of it. Maybe DBJ will have more pics.

I hope some type of residential is included. We are losing 700-ish apartments for this!

It would be an incredible disappointment if this whole site does not at least double the *previous residential unit number at some point.

New Rendering from the DMN

How are y’all feeling about this?

dallaz wrote:New Rendering from the DMN

How are y’all feeling about this?

4D2AEC5E-F81F-4DAE-8CAB-55622B6917D8.jpeg

Pretty much garbage compared to what they teased us with. But I guess it's okay for Dallas....

It's an el oh el. And, no one should be surprised. The three-on-the-right-non-timber-looking buildings for GS are seemingly basic based on the rendering - reality being probably a different level of basic. The greenwashed roofs sure are a special touch. The several rendered buildings in the background, just hope those are for heads in beds. Also, greenwashed.

^^^I can’t even defend this anymore. I had such high hopes…but it is what it is. My initial thought was ehh. But like y’all have said, I’m not too surprised either. Many of y’all did call it wayyyyy before they released these renderings.

dallaz wrote:New Rendering from the DMN

How are y’all feeling about this?

4D2AEC5E-F81F-4DAE-8CAB-55622B6917D8.jpeg

The GS buildings are only the stubby interconnected ones with dark glass right? Very suburban office park looking. The other towers are just as theoretical as the original 80st one was, so probably shouldn't hold one's breath.

But the north end apartments are coming down either way, so I wonder what sort of state those unused plots will be in in the meantime. I'm half expecting them to become surface parking lots for a while.