Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

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rono3849
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby rono3849 » 25 Aug 2021 16:51

Hunt.Dallas.NIGHT.jpg


Wouldn't it be something if the Hunt project is the the first one out of the ground ahead of the proposed Harwood 12, Hillwood Urban, KDC/Miyama, & Kaizen's Field Street towers? Talk about jumping to the head of the class with an 80+ story tower on Dallas' skyline. Whew.
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby clcrash19 » 25 Aug 2021 17:19

Man this would be a massive get for uptown downtown core and the development would be a game changer for the area too.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby quixomniac » 25 Aug 2021 17:26

rono3849 wrote:Hunt.Dallas.NIGHT.jpg

Wouldn't it be something if the Hunt project is the the first one out of the ground ahead of the proposed Harwood 12, Hillwood Urban, KDC/Miyama, & Kaizen's Field Street towers? Talk about jumping to the head of the class with an 80+ story tower on Dallas' skyline. Whew.

Nice. Had’nt seen that render.
Where the LED’s at? This is Dallas, not Houston. :lol:
Why build such a tall box tower only for it to blend into the night sky?
I don’t expect every tower to be the Omni or BoA, just give us a lil suga :P

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby R1070 » 25 Aug 2021 18:01

Hopefully this rumor will make the other developers step up their game.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Matt777 » 25 Aug 2021 18:26

This would be an amazing development. And, the new DART D2 line will have a station adjacent. Near a few major freeways. Adjacent to all the new stuff in Victory Park. Nearby residential and hotels in place. Can't really beat this site as far as Uptown goes.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby rono3849 » 25 Aug 2021 19:45

R1070 wrote:Hopefully this rumor will make the other developers step up their game.


Hillwood.tower.jpg
Perot.tower.round.jpg


Hillwood Urban might want to dust these old renderings off if the Hunt towers break ground. They need to get competitive.
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby R1070 » 25 Aug 2021 19:48

Yea. That was perfect for that site.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 26 Aug 2021 10:35

If true then Goldman Sachs wants to make a name on the skyline cause you build in the burbs if you want to slither away quietly but if you sign onto a project like that than you are trying to cannonball into the deep end and trying to get everyone wet in the process. How very Dallas if we have Goldman Sachs on the skyline. We are so 1%.
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby rono3849 » 26 Aug 2021 10:55

cowboyeagle05 wrote:If true then Goldman Sachs wants to make a name on the skyline cause you build in the burbs if you want to slither away quietly but if you sign onto a project like that than you are trying to cannonball into the deep end and trying to get everyone wet in the process. How very Dallas if we have Goldman Sachs on the skyline. We are so 1%.


Dallas has always had competitive towers. I remember when old Republic Bank & First of Dallas Bank kept building bigger towers to show they were the largest bank in Dallas. Heck, this kind of mindset is across the country because everybody is so 1%. That's the catalyst for most skylines.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 26 Aug 2021 10:59

Well current Dallas history has been the opposite and more about how many glass basic tissue boxes in the burbs can you build near the Oklahoma border aka Frisco or Westlake. This would be a company wanting to step out in ruby slippers so everyone knows.

Also do we seriously think they would put all 6,000 on this site or merely a few thousand here and the rest in a suburban satellite. Obviously they already have some space at Tramel Crow tower.
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby potatocoins » 26 Aug 2021 11:10

I'm totally fine embracing our image as being uppity and pretentious, especially if it means we get relocations like Goldman Sachs to the Uptown area.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby rono3849 » 26 Aug 2021 11:23

potatocoins wrote:I'm totally fine embracing our image as being uppity and pretentious, especially if it means we get relocations like Goldman Sachs to the Uptown area.


I'm sure Goldman Sachs will light up those towers to make an impact if they indeed commit to making the development its headquarters.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Urbancowboy » 26 Aug 2021 18:51

This will be a huge for Uptown and Downtown and it's residents. I hope this happens sooner rather than later.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Tucy » 31 Aug 2021 10:13

The problem is . . . the site is still filled with people living in apartments, for which they are apparently still signing new leases. Will Goldman Sachs really be willing to wait well over a year before construction is even started?

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 31 Aug 2021 10:35

You can still cancel leases legally at anytime for a number of reasons you just have to give people 60 days notice. Beyond that I would imagine if Goldman was this interested they would phase in employees and space could be allocated at a nearby tower like Trammel Crow Tower for the absolute employees that need to be transferred right away. If they were to chose this site I seriously doubt we would see anything over 1,000 employees here. Like AT&T did I would imagine important offices would get the star treatment while the rest would still be in some average suburban complex hopefully in Dallas proper but more likely another burb or Cypress Waters if we are lucky since that is technically Dallas.
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Tucy » 31 Aug 2021 11:20

cowboyeagle05 wrote:You can still cancel leases legally at anytime for a number of reasons you just have to give people 60 days notice. Beyond that I would imagine if Goldman was this interested they would phase in employees and space could be allocated at a nearby tower like Trammel Crow Tower for the absolute employees that need to be transferred right away. If they were to chose this site I seriously doubt we would see anything over 1,000 employees here. Like AT&T did I would imagine important offices would get the star treatment while the rest would still be in some average suburban complex hopefully in Dallas proper but more likely another burb or Cypress Waters if we are lucky since that is technically Dallas.


Pretty sure landlords can only cancel leases for cause. To empty the building before the leases are up would require buying people out and probably paying for their relocation. I agree this location is not likely for the bulk of any G-S relocation (and therefore unlikely period, unless they want to relocate from TCC, which also seems fairy unlikely).

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 31 Aug 2021 12:37

You have never worked in "Luxury Apartment" leasing have you. Its easy to generate cause if you do it right and I have no doubt that the owners know their leases back to front to know what flexibility they would have and for that matter if it would be worth paying everyone off. A majority would go quietly with some amount of money and I doubt it would climb outside a million dollars in total. Yes apartment leases are standardized but you can also add various sections that landlords use all the time to make changes when desired that can leave residents high and dry. My lease at another complex had a section that reduced my options for suing with other residents in a class action. Leases also don't guarantee amenities so how about you take away the pool and gym see how many people stick around and fight. I am just saying yes there are laws but Texas isn't exactly a friend to the induvial it favors the property owner at every turn and follows federal law where it is forced to.
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Tucy » 31 Aug 2021 13:14

cowboyeagle05 wrote:You have never worked in "Luxury Apartment" leasing have you. Its easy to generate cause if you do it right and I have no doubt that the owners know their leases back to front to know what flexibility they would have and for that matter if it would be worth paying everyone off. A majority would go quietly with some amount of money and I doubt it would climb outside a million dollars in total. Yes apartment leases are standardized but you can also add various sections that landlords use all the time to make changes when desired that can leave residents high and dry. My lease at another complex had a section that reduced my options for suing with other residents in a class action. Leases also don't guarantee amenities so how about you take away the pool and gym see how many people stick around and fight. I am just saying yes there are laws but Texas isn't exactly a friend to the induvial it favors the property owner at every turn and follows federal law where it is forced to.


Even if true, it would still be a very time-consuming process to empty those buildings and prepare the site for construction. Unlikely to have anything under construction in less than a year. Even Steve Brown's latest fluff piece noted that the earliest construction could start is the second half of 2022.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 31 Aug 2021 14:13

^correct I was just suggesting its not impossible for them to start moving that way sooner than waiting on people to move out.
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Tucy » 31 Aug 2021 16:57

cowboyeagle05 wrote:^correct I was just suggesting its not impossible for them to start moving that way sooner than waiting on people to move out.


The only people they have to wait on (or pay) are those with signed leases (there is no 60-day-notice escape for landlords).

The fact is, if the company is still signing 12-month leases (and all indications are that they are), they clearly have no current intention to start construction within that time period.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby mhainli » 31 Aug 2021 17:03

Remember that’s a big apartment complex. If Hunt wishes to start some work more sooner than later, do these leases allow them to move people out of certain buildings and into others?

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby dalbert » 31 Aug 2021 17:17

Friend in the industry says Goldman to North End is almost a done deal. Ironing out details on a built-to-suit property, and will likely be announced toward the end of the year, or Q1 at the latest.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 31 Aug 2021 17:23

Tucy wrote:
The only people they have to wait on (or pay) are those with signed leases (there is no 60-day-notice escape for landlords).

The fact is, if the company is still signing 12-month leases (and all indications are that they are), they clearly have no current intention to start construction within that time period.


I never said they would get out of a 60 day notice I was merely suggesting that a apartment lease is toilet paper and any good developer that has millions of dollars to be made from Goldman Sachs being a lead tenant will find every option to get dirt moving faster plus protections are weak for renters vs landlords. As long as they don't go after obvious things like kicking someone out of their apartment due to race, color, national origin, religion, sex, physical or mental disability, or familial status their could be a loop hole worth pushing the button on.

And as you said there is no indication they are publicly doing anything other than leasing apartments at this time.
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby potatocoins » 31 Aug 2021 17:26

dalbert wrote:Friend in the industry says Goldman to North End is almost a done deal. Ironing out details on a built-to-suit property, and will likely be announced toward the end of the year, or Q1 at the latest.


Oh my! I still don't want to get my hopes up, but damn that would be incredible!!

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Tnexster » 01 Sep 2021 08:47

dalbert wrote:Friend in the industry says Goldman to North End is almost a done deal. Ironing out details on a built-to-suit property, and will likely be announced toward the end of the year, or Q1 at the latest.


Build to suit property sounds like something not in the current renderings.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Kelley USA » 01 Sep 2021 09:39

There most likely is some sort of addendum to the lease which would allow Hunt to give a Notice to Vacate. The majority of leases would probably expire before any construction would begin anyways. The remaining tenants would be given a nice little payment to help relocate. The Uptown 20 & 30 something year-olds would gladly take any $$ thrown their way. This comes from a friend that works at AMLI.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Tucy » 01 Sep 2021 12:52

Kelley USA wrote:There most likely is some sort of addendum to the lease which would allow Hunt to give a Notice to Vacate.


Not so sure such a provision would even be legal or enforceable. In any event, only a fool would sign such a lease as a tenant.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Tucy » 01 Sep 2021 12:56

dalbert wrote:Friend in the industry says Goldman to North End is almost a done deal. Ironing out details on a built-to-suit property, and will likely be announced toward the end of the year, or Q1 at the latest.


Sounds like they must have a lot of ironing to get done. ;)

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 01 Sep 2021 16:14

Tucy wrote:
Kelley USA wrote:There most likely is some sort of addendum to the lease which would allow Hunt to give a Notice to Vacate.


Not so sure such a provision would even be legal or enforceable. In any event, only a fool would sign such a lease as a tenant.


Since when did most people read their leases? I know with most properties I worked at people just signed away their lives and then demanded they were given .... cause they claimed it was in their lease which was never the case 90% of the time. Then move to another property and committed the same ignorance all over agaim. Your lease covers the managements arse if they f$#k up and barely guarantees you an apartment if you pay your rent on time. Also tells you a million things you can't do and if you do gives management the right to recover damages in some form or another. Lease holders sent me the paperwork for their entire life savings, investments and stock holdings in unprotected emails. 90% of people renting are not reading and to be honest the leasing agents don't read the leases they send out. They are two busy being told to call back every call and email for information and follow up 5 times to make sure they cant get another lease. These rental properties are loosely run and usually understaffed and underfunded intentionally by staff that isn't paid enough to care.
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby rono3849 » 01 Sep 2021 22:11

Hunt.Realty.Downtown.Proposal (1).jpg


Since Goldman Sachs is apparently interested in this development, I wouldn't think they would want to make any drastic changes to this proposal. They would certainly be looking to "make a statement" on the Dallas skyline, which the 83-story tower will do.
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby R1070 » 01 Sep 2021 22:43

I wish one of the other buildings were a little taller to add more dimension.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby DFW » 02 Sep 2021 00:29

Since the center piece 83-story tower is based for residential at 890-ft in height. If it is changed to be all office, it would be well over 1000 and closer to 1200-ft, that is if Goldman Sachs wants this tower for office.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby willyk » 02 Sep 2021 03:54

dalbert wrote:Friend in the industry says Goldman to North End is almost a done deal. Ironing out details on a built-to-suit property, and will likely be announced toward the end of the year, or Q1 at the latest.


This would be great. Any word on why they would pick this development over some of the other mega developments being proposed along Field Street?

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby tamtagon » 02 Sep 2021 06:05

R1070 wrote:I wish one of the other buildings were a little taller to add more dimension.


I wish the Nature Museum was gifted some of this acreage for expansion.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby R1070 » 02 Sep 2021 09:08

They could expand westward I believe.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby R1070 » 02 Sep 2021 09:12

dalbert wrote:Friend in the industry says Goldman to North End is almost a done deal. Ironing out details on a built-to-suit property, and will likely be announced toward the end of the year, or Q1 at the latest.


Hopefully they will decide to build it all at once (or at least a majority of it).

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 02 Sep 2021 09:48

The previous proposal seen in the renderings is most likely is just bait and if someone like Goldman Sachs shows up Hunt will go back to the drawing board and create a more custom project that fits within the zoning approvals the city council approved. They don't want to beg the city to reapprove and slow them down even more by significantly changing everything around. City Hall's approval process is so backed up maybe it makes sense to wait on leases to end at the North End Apt's as Tucy suggested above. ;)
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby potatocoins » 02 Sep 2021 10:06

If this deal happens (which it seems likely that it will), this will be a reasonably quick turnaround a project of this size, no? This thread was created on Oct 2020, so it doesn't feel like this thing has been in the 'proposed stage' for too long, especially when you consider similar projects like NewPark, the Spire, and the supertall from Perot.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby LongonBigD » 02 Sep 2021 10:12

Banks are more likely to finance residential apartment projects and build-to-suit projects. They are still unlikely to build spec office space even in this market. I keep thinking that if Goldman Sachs needs 1MM sq ft, how tall is that? I don't think it's 83 stories (unless it is a very small footprint). Isn't that about 50-60 stories like Fountain Place?

The new Chase campus in Plano is more than 1MM sq ft (maybe 1.3 to 1.4MM??) spread out across four buildings--two 6 story, one 8 story and one 12 story--for a total of 32 floors. I know this is not apples to apples, but it makes me wonder. Anybody have a better idea of how many floors 1MM sq ft would be? GS would be even shorter if it is spread between 2 or more buildings.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby rono3849 » 02 Sep 2021 10:34

DFW wrote:Since the center piece 83-story tower is based for residential at 890-ft in height. If it is changed to be all office, it would be well over 1000 and closer to 1200-ft, that is if Goldman Sachs wants this tower for office.


Goldman could lease one of the 50+ story towers, while the 83-story tower would be for employees to live, business travelers to stay, and associated businesses to office. This could easily fill up two of the three towers in the development's complex.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 02 Sep 2021 10:49

We still have no idea how many employees would be here though. Just because the original news said X amount doesn't mean that Goldmann wants that many employees in Uptown Dallas. More than likely a small amount would be in a signature tower enough to get incentives or their name on the tower while the rest would be in a faster build development in the burbs like Frisco, Plano, or Westlake. 800 in Uptown with thousands more in a burbs campus where the land is cheaper closer to thousands of homes for families and good schools. Dallas would get the trophy tower claim as the "HQ" of the relocation, I am aware this is not their HQ, while the majority of workers would still be in a burb.

The execs located in the tower could locate to Park Cities if they wanted in that case while a majority of the employees would buy homes in other parts of DFW.

My overall point is there is a lot of assumptions so don't get too many grandiose visuals in your head of super tall Dallas signature towers with Goldman Sachs plastered all over each. We could literally get a 34-40 story office tower and a few smaller towers and it will still be a nice addition to Uptown. That's IF any of this is even still true.
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Tucy » 02 Sep 2021 10:52

LongonBigD wrote:Banks are more likely to finance residential apartment projects and build-to-suit projects. They are still unlikely to build spec office space even in this market. I keep thinking that if Goldman Sachs needs 1MM sq ft, how tall is that? I don't think it's 83 stories (unless it is a very small footprint). Isn't that about 50-60 stories like Fountain Place?

The new Chase campus in Plano is more than 1MM sq ft (maybe 1.3 to 1.4MM??) spread out across four buildings--two 6 story, one 8 story and one 12 story--for a total of 32 floors. I know this is not apples to apples, but it makes me wonder. Anybody have a better idea of how many floors 1MM sq ft would be? GS would be even shorter if it is spread between 2 or more buildings.


As points of reference:
72-story BofA Plaza has about 1.9 Million Square Feet
60-story Comerica Bank Tower has about 1.5 Million
60-story Fountain Place has about 1.2 Million
55-story JPMorgan Chase Tower has about 1.3 Million

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby R1070 » 02 Sep 2021 12:38

Hopefully this can spark hotel and residential as well as the office component.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby I45Tex » 02 Sep 2021 12:54

DFW wrote:Since the center piece 83-story tower is based for residential at 890-ft in height. If it is changed to be all office, it would be well over 1000 and closer to 1200-ft, that is if Goldman Sachs wants this tower for office.


Some developers are raising the ceiling heights a lot for office now. A recent article about the office building 3 Hudson Blvd. in NYC mentioned that this "56-story Hudson Yards development is expected to culminate with a roof parapet of around 940 feet and yield a total of 1.86 million square feet."

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby lakewoodhobo » 02 Sep 2021 17:22

TBH, I think Newpark would've been a much better location for this plus you could actually fit several thousand in a campus there.

Maybe next time.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby rono3849 » 02 Sep 2021 17:37

lakewoodhobo wrote:TBH, I think Newpark would've been a much better location for this plus you could actually fit several thousand in a campus there.

Maybe next time.


Perhaps the next time might be closer than you think. I keep reading & hearing that a number of companies are looking to relocate to Dallas, which would pump new life into Downtown and get a few of those proposed towers coming out of the ground. I'm partial to the proposed towers on the East-side of Downtown in the East Quarter & across the freeway from Deep Ellum.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby dzh » 03 Sep 2021 07:31

I really don't like to bring up politics ever, but is anyone else nervous that the new legislation banning abortions after 6 weeks may put this and other projects in jeopardy? I could totally see some companies backtracking because they don't want to deal with negative PR (that being said, maybe I'm wrong...but just wanted to potentially see if anyone else is nervous about that).

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby tamtagon » 03 Sep 2021 07:43

Some probably will, but probably not a money company like Goldman Sachs.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby lakewoodhobo » 03 Sep 2021 09:17

dzh wrote:I really don't like to bring up politics ever, but is anyone else nervous that the new legislation banning abortions after 6 weeks may put this and other projects in jeopardy? I could totally see some companies backtracking because they don't want to deal with negative PR (that being said, maybe I'm wrong...but just wanted to potentially see if anyone else is nervous about that).


I thought the same thing, but I'm also reading that a lot of companies don't even want to comment on it. Tech companies were especially outspoken against bathroom legislation, and now you see Elon Musk from his Austin home deciding to "stay out of politics".

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby scott2 » 03 Sep 2021 10:25

I think that is a valid and astute observation. Our politics in Texas does seem to have taken a "hard right turn" of late and may turn off some of the West and East coast companies looking at relocation but the financial advantages take first priority in conversations being had in Board Rooms where these decisions are made.