Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

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dallaz
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby dallaz » 22 Feb 2023 20:39

The Perot Museum is planning to convert its 4 acre parking lot into a park. It’ll connect to the new Goldman Sachs campus park as well.

Article is from a few months ago. Maybe the concerns about it being insular is less…? (Not sure if this article was shared already)

https://www.costar.com/article/10272161 ... -evolution

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby lakewoodhobo » 24 Feb 2023 09:59

dallaz wrote:The Perot Museum is planning to convert its 4 acre parking lot into a park. It’ll connect to the new Goldman Sachs campus park as well.

Article is from a few months ago. Maybe the concerns about it being insular is less…? (Not sure if this article was shared already)

https://www.costar.com/article/10272161 ... -evolution


If it was shared before, I completely forgot about it. I'm just happy to know that Museum Way Station will jump from being the most boring of the D2 stations to one of the most interesting.

Screen Shot 2023-02-24 at 9.49.35 AM.jpg
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby IcedCowboyCoffee » 24 Feb 2023 12:38

The article mentions adding underground parking. If that also includes the small staff lot that would be incredible. I do wonder if they'll consider D2 in the design process when that's so far off from materializing.
dallaz wrote:The Perot Museum is planning to convert its 4 acre parking lot into a park. It’ll connect to the new Goldman Sachs campus park as well.

Article is from a few months ago. Maybe the concerns about it being insular is less…? (Not sure if this article was shared already)

https://www.costar.com/article/10272161 ... -evolution

Speaking for myself at least, my concern about insularity is less about access points to the interior park space and more about how the development treats Field st like it's an alleyway. It's hard to tell exactly how Field st will look because so much of what's been shown is the interior space, but that only reinforces my worry...
field8.JPG

I assume the Goldman Sachs building here is mostly accurate to how it will look upon completion. Anyone who has walked along Field st when this was the apartments knows how bleh of a walk it was, but it doesn't look like this will be any better along that same stretch. To be honest it looks like it could be more dangerous.
The "people go over here, cars go over there, and ne'er the twain shall meet" mindset is a suburban form or urbanism, which seems to be prevalent in this layout. It's what leads to these overly wide and dangerous thoroughfares.
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R1070
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby R1070 » 24 Feb 2023 13:33

I really hope Museum Way Station doesn't end up being a downtown Park & Ride!

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby potatocoins » 24 Feb 2023 15:20

IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:The "people go over here, cars go over there, and ne'er the twain shall meet" mindset is a suburban form or urbanism, which seems to be prevalent in this layout. It's what leads to these overly wide and dangerous thoroughfares.


This is how The Union feels to me, and this development looks like it could be more of the same, unfortunately.

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dallaz
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby dallaz » 25 Mar 2023 10:45

I have seen this timelapse on Reddit, thought I should share it. Looks like movement on the site. Still waiting for construction to start on this one…


Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Dallas/comment ... ame=iossmf


5ADE2284-EC51-4F9E-B0C3-F4A7A5B42BF1.jpeg
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Urban Toreador
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Urban Toreador » 26 Mar 2023 16:04

dallaz wrote:I have seen this timelapse on Reddit, thought I should share it. Looks like movement on the site. Still waiting for construction to start on this one…


Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Dallas/comment ... ame=iossmf


5ADE2284-EC51-4F9E-B0C3-F4A7A5B42BF1.jpeg



There is definitely movement on the site. Every day there's about at least a dozen workers. It appears that they are integrating the plumbing/water with the city, as they have Houston St and some of Nowitzky Way blocked off where crews have been doing a lot underground. I'll try and get some pics posted up here tomorrow.....

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R1070
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby R1070 » 26 Mar 2023 21:29

Perhaps they are doing what West Village did and build the new connecting streets then fill in the blocks with development.

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dallaz
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby dallaz » 27 Mar 2023 07:07

Urban Toreador wrote:
dallaz wrote:I have seen this timelapse on Reddit, thought I should share it. Looks like movement on the site. Still waiting for construction to start on this one…


Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Dallas/comment ... ame=iossmf


5ADE2284-EC51-4F9E-B0C3-F4A7A5B42BF1.jpeg



There is definitely movement on the site. Every day there's about at least a dozen workers. It appears that they are integrating the plumbing/water with the city, as they have Houston St and some of Nowitzky Way blocked off where crews have been doing a lot underground. I'll try and get some pics posted up here tomorrow.....

Thanks for that, I've seen that as well. I was wondering what it was.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Urban Toreador » 02 Apr 2023 15:55

Current progress.....
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby tamtagon » 02 Apr 2023 18:07

I forgot that grocery store is right there!

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Tnexster » 18 Apr 2023 08:53

5,000 jobs still planned for Goldman Sachs' new campus even with smaller footprint

Manhattan-based investment banking giant Goldman Sachs’ regional office campus to be built in the Uptown area of Dallas may have been downsized by about 10%, but the number of jobs to be based out of the building remains unchanged, according to the head of the firm’s local office.

Construction on the $500 million project is set to start later this year and migration of employees into the building is scheduled for 2027, according to Aasem Khalil, partner at Goldman Sachs and head of the Dallas Office.


https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... ampus.html

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Tucy » 18 Apr 2023 11:11

And apparently now topping out at 12 stories!

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby rono3849 » 18 Apr 2023 12:18

Tucy wrote:And apparently now topping out at 12 stories!


Hunt.GoldmanSachs.Towers.Development.jpg


Much ado about nothing. This has been a huge disappointment since the original plan with renderings was announced. Dallas just can't get its act together. They'd have had this development half finished in Austin or Houston by now. :roll:
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Tnexster » 18 Apr 2023 12:22

From 16 floors to 12 but only a 85,000sf reduction. Wonder if they are accommodating more work from home.

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Tucy
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Tucy » 18 Apr 2023 12:27

From 80 stories to 55 stories to 50 stories to 25 stories to 20 stories to 16 stories, now 12 . . .

Gotta say, Hunt and Goldman Sachs played the Dallas City Council masterfully. Nothing gets them to open the taxpayers' checkbooks like flashy images of shiny new buildings, especially tall ones!

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby rickbansal » 19 Apr 2023 10:14

Given the remote worker mentality/culture, companies are only going to build the minimum amount of space they need. A lot of companies are renewing leases with smaller footprints. I know my company is doing that and even with the reduced footprint, the office is still pretty empty.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby RodB » 19 Apr 2023 13:04

I agree, but why did they ask the city for so much tax incentives? They are just moving some workers from other downtown locations to Field Street.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Cbdallas » 19 Apr 2023 13:54

I thought the tall towers were supposed to be hotel condo mixed use towers not the actual office building for Goldman. I guess this is better than seeing them consolidate in Irving, Southlake or Frisco.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby R1070 » 19 Apr 2023 14:05

Cbdallas wrote:I thought the tall towers were supposed to be hotel condo mixed use towers not the actual office building for Goldman. I guess this is better than seeing them consolidate in Irving, Southlake or Frisco.

That's correct. I was under the impression that the smaller timer structure in the original renderings was to be the GS offices.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Tucy » 19 Apr 2023 15:42

In related news, G-S's Marcus retail banking operation is failing and has been laying off people and essentially being put out of business. My understanding is that the Richardson base is connected to Marcus. Have there been layoffs up there? Perhaps they never planned to move those people from the Richardson office to the new Uptown building. . .

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Urban Toreador » 25 Apr 2023 16:53

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... e=facebook


Nothing earth shattering here, but a small update......

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby kingkong34 » 26 Apr 2023 08:51

So what I'm gathering from this article is that Hillwood would help develop the residential portion and the park? Or are they also coming in with equity for the office section.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby rono3849 » 26 Apr 2023 20:02

So Hillwood Urban is involved with the entire site or just the Goldman-Sachs building? The article was poorly written and confusing. Frankly, Hillwood can't even build anything on their own site down the street. I don't think this bodes well for the entire development now. We'll be lucky to get a 10 story Hilton Garden Inn or Homewood Suites with a six story apartment complex next to it. What a missed opportunity.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby mwaskow » 27 Apr 2023 15:34

Why even tear down the North End apartments for this. 12 stories is a joke. State Farm has a more impressive HQ in Richardson for goodness sake.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby CTroyMathis » 27 Apr 2023 18:55

I guess the Northend is the new (mini, non-brownfield) Victory circa 2000 Dallasmetropolis.com. Gives us another 20 years of guaranteed banter. Meanwhile, a baseball park would've fit here just fine. Soccer stadium, you bet - even easier. But, yeah, no. ; )

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby zaphod » 27 Apr 2023 19:03

Let's hope it won't take that long to fill in. If the GS stuff actually materializes out of the ground in a reasonable time frame I think that will still be progress.

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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby vman » 07 Jul 2023 08:22

Goldman Sachs Pares Back Campus by 100,000 feet

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/202 ... uare-feet/

The three buildings to be constructed along the west side of Field Street north of Woodall Rodgers Freeway will now be 13, 10 and eight stories tall, according to documents filed with Dallas’ city plan commission. Previously, the New York-based financial firm had said its new office campus would range in height from nine to 15 floors.

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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby R1070 » 07 Jul 2023 08:45

There's zero excitement from me when it comes to this project. At this point, I'd be surprised if anything gets built and if it does, it won't be anything noteworthy. Hopefully as time goes on, the other lots in the development are filled in to create some type of cohesion with Victory Park and Harwood District.

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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby Tnexster » 07 Jul 2023 09:05

This says 815,000 sf which is exactly what the April update said. Only difference I can see is now it's topped out at 13 floors not 12.

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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby MC_ScattCat » 07 Jul 2023 09:56

Just curious as to why 3 buildings at 13,10, and 8 stores need to be built as opposed to one building with 31 stories?

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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby Tnexster » 07 Jul 2023 10:14

MC_ScattCat wrote:Just curious as to why 3 buildings at 13,10, and 8 stores need to be built as opposed to one building with 31 stories?


Why not add a hotel and make it 45? I mean if you are all in on a mixed use development why not start by making the first tower mixed use? Instead they go full Plano.

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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby rickbansal » 07 Jul 2023 10:53

Tnexster wrote:
MC_ScattCat wrote:Just curious as to why 3 buildings at 13,10, and 8 stores need to be built as opposed to one building with 31 stories?


Why not add a hotel and make it 45? I mean if you are all in on a mixed use development why not start by making the first tower mixed use? Instead they go full Plano.


This project's planning is not making a lot of sense. Don't claim to be a development expert but wouldn't it be in Hunt's best interest to quickly add to the development effort and create a buzz around the project rather than have the perception this project is not going well??

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Tucy
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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby Tucy » 07 Jul 2023 12:14

I'm not sure why this is being called three buildings. From both the renderings and the site plan, it looks like one building.

Here's the site plan submitted to the Plan Commission:
https://dallascityhall.com/government/m ... 223-004(TB)%20Proposed%20Dev%20Pl.pdf

And a rendering clearly showing one building.
https://media.bizj.us/view/img/12499785/goldmanalte.jpg

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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby Addison » 07 Jul 2023 13:07

rickbansal wrote:
Tnexster wrote:
MC_ScattCat wrote:Just curious as to why 3 buildings at 13,10, and 8 stores need to be built as opposed to one building with 31 stories?


Why not add a hotel and make it 45? I mean if you are all in on a mixed use development why not start by making the first tower mixed use? Instead they go full Plano.


This project's planning is not making a lot of sense. Don't claim to be a development expert but wouldn't it be in Hunt's best interest to quickly add to the development effort and create a buzz around the project rather than have the perception this project is not going well??


Unless your name is Frisco, Dallas developers don't do spec office projects.

Meanwhile, salaries in Dallas aren't high enough to support profitable high rise condo projects. Even in Uptown, the few high rise residential towers under construction are apartments.

As far as hotel towers, a lot of them rely heavily on business and/or tourist travel. Dallas is a funny market in that it's not a tourist city while all of our major employers are spread out all over the Metroplex and not necessarily concentrated downtown.

In many places that are so-called prime locations, within the foreseeable future, the best we're getting is more 5-over-1 apartments and will like it.
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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby Urban Toreador » 07 Jul 2023 13:49

MC_ScattCat wrote:Just curious as to why 3 buildings at 13,10, and 8 stores need to be built as opposed to one building with 31 stories?


It is waaaaay more expensive to build one 31 floor bldg than to build 3 shorter ones even when the total square footage comes out the same. I know....I'm disappointed too.

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dallaz
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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby dallaz » 07 Jul 2023 15:08

R1070 wrote:There's zero excitement from me when it comes to this project. At this point, I'd be surprised if anything gets built and if it does, it won't be anything noteworthy. Hopefully as time goes on, the other lots in the development are filled in to create some type of cohesion with Victory Park and Harwood District.

Hell, that’s the only thing I’m counting on atp. The excitement is gone for me as well. Sigh…

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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby rono3849 » 07 Jul 2023 17:52

image_2023-07-07_192349991.png


In summary, the general consensus here is that this Goldman Sachs development is a total flop. From the initial euphoria for those high-rise renderings to a Plano-style medical complex, this is a major fail for Downtown Dallas. Maybe there will be a few area adjacent apartment & hotel towers, but no super talls are in the mix. Heck, we're seeing 30+ story towers in Legacy and Frisco. This is embarrassing to say the least.
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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby Dtown214 » 07 Jul 2023 21:35

I hope that this is only the campus part but still hoping they keep their vision of the retail and hotel part.

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Addison
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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby Addison » 07 Jul 2023 22:12

rono3849 wrote:image_2023-07-07_192349991.png

In summary, the general consensus here is that this Goldman Sachs development is a total flop. From the initial euphoria for those high-rise renderings to a Plano-style medical complex, this is a major fail for Downtown Dallas. Maybe there will be a few area adjacent apartment & hotel towers, but no super talls are in the mix. Heck, we're seeing 30+ story towers in Legacy and Frisco. This is embarrassing to say the least.


Sad and embarassing indeed.

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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby Tnexster » 10 Jul 2023 09:43

rono3849 wrote:
In summary, the general consensus here is that this Goldman Sachs development is a total flop. From the initial euphoria for those high-rise renderings to a Plano-style medical complex, this is a major fail for Downtown Dallas. Maybe there will be a few area adjacent apartment & hotel towers, but no super talls are in the mix. Heck, we're seeing 30+ story towers in Legacy and Frisco. This is embarrassing to say the least.


I would not say its a total flop. Anytime you bring 5,000 workers into the core of a city it's a huge win and this is one of those wins that attracts a lot of attention and brings others along with them. If Goldman lands downtown you can bet that a bunch of others are looking to do the same. If your measuring stick is tall buildings then this is at least disappointing but from an economic development perspective this is a huge victory for downtown. If they don't come through with high rise residential and hotel towers then I guess one could say the entire thing is disappointing but time will tell on that part of the development. And right now in this current economic environment, might not be the best time to expect a lot of new tall towers to get started.

Having said all that, if Goldman bails....then yes, it is a total flop.

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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby Tucy » 10 Jul 2023 12:02

Tnexster wrote:
rono3849 wrote:
In summary, the general consensus here is that this Goldman Sachs development is a total flop. From the initial euphoria for those high-rise renderings to a Plano-style medical complex, this is a major fail for Downtown Dallas. Maybe there will be a few area adjacent apartment & hotel towers, but no super talls are in the mix. Heck, we're seeing 30+ story towers in Legacy and Frisco. This is embarrassing to say the least.


I would not say its a total flop. Anytime you bring 5,000 workers into the core of a city it's a huge win and this is one of those wins that attracts a lot of attention and brings others along with them. If Goldman lands downtown you can bet that a bunch of others are looking to do the same. If your measuring stick is tall buildings then this is at least disappointing but from an economic development perspective this is a huge victory for downtown. If they don't come through with high rise residential and hotel towers then I guess one could say the entire thing is disappointing but time will tell on that part of the development. And right now in this current economic environment, might not be the best time to expect a lot of new tall towers to get started.

Having said all that, if Goldman bails....then yes, it is a total flop.


Reminder: The Goldman Sachs project does not bring 5,000 workers into the core of the city. About 2,500 of those workers are already in the core (even more so than their new location). At best, this will bring 2,500 workers into the core.

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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby Tnexster » 10 Jul 2023 14:53

^That is true and I forget about that existing office but is still a win to retain and add versus losing the whole 5,000 to Frisco or some other far away suburb. Plus we don't know what other like minded firms may opt to open a downtown or near downtown office just because Goldman is here. Several have shopped the downtown market looking for space, not as much space as Goldman but they are kicking the tires.

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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby tamtagon » 10 Jul 2023 14:54

Need more residential investment downtown.

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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby Tnexster » 10 Jul 2023 15:32

^Absolutely true, and one would hope that the corralling of 5,000 Goldman employees in this area might lead to additional optimism in the residential sector and help build out entire development. Maybe we will start to see some better plans once the Goldman campus starts turning dirt.

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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby The_Overdog » 11 Jul 2023 09:14

My main issue is that it may bring 2500 workers to downtown, but removed a number of residents not too far from that, and residents are far more valuable than office workers for downtown.If there isn't a major residential component to at least replace the number of units lost with the NorthEnd demolition, then this place is going to be a fail in my opinion.

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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby Addison » 11 Jul 2023 10:03

The_Overdog wrote:My main issue is that it may bring 2500 workers to downtown, but removed a number of residents not too far from that, and residents are far more valuable than office workers for downtown.If there isn't a major residential component to at least replace the number of units lost with the NorthEnd demolition, then this place is going to be a fail in my opinion.


A fail by who's measure?

It can be a wooden shoebox for all Hunt care. As long as it makes them a profit, they'll consider it a success.

And as long as Goldman Sachs saves money by consolidating their workers into said wooden shoebox, it will be considered a successful by their management and shareholders.

And as long as said wooden shoebox boosts the taxable value of said land, the city of Dallas will also consider it a success.

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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby The_Overdog » 11 Jul 2023 10:40

Was the NorthEnd apartments subsidized somehow? Most cities write their economic incentives to be based on tangible results, but I'm not sure about the city of Dallas....if they didn't and this continues to be downscaled, ultimately it could be a money-loser for city of Dallas, since they did subsidize it to the tune of $18m.

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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby rickbansal » 11 Jul 2023 12:52

The_Overdog wrote:Was the NorthEnd apartments subsidized somehow? Most cities write their economic incentives to be based on tangible results, but I'm not sure about the city of Dallas....if they didn't and this continues to be downscaled, ultimately it could be a money-loser for city of Dallas, since they did subsidize it to the tune of $18m.


Don't really think the City of Dallas knows how or where to invest. Remember this is the City that wouldn't subsidize the $1.2B Cowboy stadium with a few hundred million dollars. Just imagine the amount of development that would've generated in the surrounding area. Imagine if Ron Kirk didn't push funding for AA arena. The old TXU power station would there in place of Victory

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Re: Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

Postby The_Overdog » 11 Jul 2023 16:08

Remember this is the City that wouldn't subsidize the $1.2B Cowboy stadium with a few hundred million dollars.


Not sure that's a fair comparison. Has anyone been to Las Vegas lately? The stadium they built there Allegiant Stadium, right up against the freeway, blows Cowboys Stadium out of the water, which you can barely even see passing by in Arlington because the freeways are for some reason below grade. It's a stadium, it's a digital billboard, it's right there in your face and the parking is small. And it's got the Super Bowl next year, Cowboys haven't hosted in a decade.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.0904716 ... ?entry=ttu

So I'm just saying locating Jerry World in Dallas would have been the same as locating in Arlington with the horrible urban design/interface, so I'd rather it be located in Arlington. That's even discounting the (lack of ) actual economic value that large stadiums provide.

And Cowboys stadium hasn't generated any development around it. It's still next to a dumpy garden apartment and a WalMart a decade later. All the development around it has been 100% subsidized by the people of Arlington, most of it not even particularly successful. No thanks.