Uptown/Victory Park: NorthEnd

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potatocoins
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby potatocoins » 23 Sep 2022 13:59

It's actually kinda crazy to me that Residential hasn't been confirmed for this development. It seems like Dallas hasn't really had issues supporting high-rise apartments, especially north of Wooddall.

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IcedCowboyCoffee
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby IcedCowboyCoffee » 23 Sep 2022 14:10

Remembering this quote from last year:
"Huge skyscraper project north of downtown Dallas gets thumbs-up from city" - https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2021/08/11/huge-skyscraper-project-north-of-downtown-dallas-gets-thumbs-up-from-city/
“We wanted to hold the entire block because we knew the day would come when the timing would be right for a site so uniquely situated with its scale and size to master-plan something bold, special and unique,” Kleinert said.



It would have at least been nice if the GS space resembled the original proposed style. That would have been something unique at least.
gs1.jpg

gs2.jpg


And looks like zero interaction with Field st, but par for the course with uptown. It has the insular feel of Legacy West and other suburban faux-urbanism--it canyons the street and tries to channel people through its own center.
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Tucy
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Tucy » 23 Sep 2022 14:30

CTroyMathis wrote:It would be an incredible disappointment if this whole site does not at least double the *previous residential unit number at some point.


FWIW, the original proposal, including the fantastical mythological 83-story tower, included 895 units. (Northend Apartments had 540)

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potatocoins
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby potatocoins » 23 Sep 2022 14:34

Blah. I continued to have hope and defended this project, but if this development is going to have an 'insular' feel to it, then I'd say it sucks. I can handle the lack of height, but if it does nothing to connect to nearby developments that this is going to be highly disappointing.

What's worse is that the Union feels very insular too and it's right next to this, and Victory Park sorta feels insular too. If there was just a bit more effort put into connecting with these neighboring areas, it could make a big difference, but that doesn't seem like it'll be the case here. How unfortunate.

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R1070
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby R1070 » 23 Sep 2022 14:37

dallaz wrote:New Rendering from the DMN

How are y’all feeling about this?

4D2AEC5E-F81F-4DAE-8CAB-55622B6917D8.jpeg


Well... now it's 6 buildings instead of 5, so it removes the two low rise restaurants from the side by the Perot and replaces with an office building. I don't mind that at all. The residential/hotel component is just a mock-up of what could go there. What's pictured now is more inline with the surrounding neighborhood and I don't necessarily hate it, but I do hope they incorporate elements to connect it with Victory, etc.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby LPG » 23 Sep 2022 15:22

R1070 wrote:
dallaz wrote:New Rendering from the DMN

How are y’all feeling about this?

4D2AEC5E-F81F-4DAE-8CAB-55622B6917D8.jpeg


Well... now it's 6 buildings instead of 5, so it removes the two low rise restaurants from the side by the Perot and replaces with an office building. I don't mind that at all. The residential/hotel component is just a mock-up of what could go there. What's pictured now is more inline with the surrounding neighborhood and I don't necessarily hate it, but I do hope they incorporate elements to connect it with Victory, etc.


Yes, the connectivity piece is huge here. Walking around North End and through the Perot parking lots from ‘South Victory’ to Uptown is incredibly annoying. Whatever the site orientation, it has to be an improvement over the current situation. ‘South Victory’ to the Union and on into Uptown should feel much more cohesive.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby ajderry2017 » 23 Sep 2022 21:20

That new rendering doesn’t look like 80+ stories smh.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby DFW » 23 Sep 2022 23:45

Wow! Can’t believe they did away with the original. Those shorter buildings for GS are way to big and to boxy and to close to Field St. For the original rendering taller towers would have created more green space. What a shame. I suppose in order to lure GS as soon as possible, they have to construct the shorter buildings that require less time for construction. Anyway, it’s better than nothing and hope for the best.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby dallaz » 24 Sep 2022 01:34

IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:
dallaz wrote:New Rendering from the DMN

How are y’all feeling about this?

4D2AEC5E-F81F-4DAE-8CAB-55622B6917D8.jpeg

The GS buildings are only the stubby interconnected ones with dark glass right? Very suburban office park looking. The other towers are just as theoretical as the original 80st one was, so probably shouldn't hold one's breath.

But the north end apartments are coming down either way, so I wonder what sort of state those unused plots will be in in the meantime. I'm half expecting them to become surface parking lots for a while.

I’ve never thought about that until now. I wanna know as well….but I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re right.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby rono3849 » 24 Sep 2022 11:41

Where's the distinctive architecture for the GS buildings? They look like squatty suburban office buildings with no distinctive flair at all. Just run of the mill architecture. I guess the two taller buildings replace the 80 and 50+ story towers originally featured. They look like their in the 35 to 40 story range in comparison to the GS 9 to 15 story buildings. All in all, it's a huge disappointment for Dallas' skyline, but I've given up on anything dynamic in this city. I go to Atlanta, Chicago, Boston, LA, and Miami where I see spectacular new towers with great flair being built. Heck, Austin & Houston have so much more going for them. Dallas is off-the-shelf mediocre architecture.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby dallaz » 24 Sep 2022 12:02

rono3849 wrote:Where's the distinctive architecture for the GS buildings? They look like squatty suburban office buildings with no distinctive flair at all. Just run of the mill architecture. I guess the two taller buildings replace the 80 and 50+ story towers originally featured. They look like their in the 35 to 40 story range in comparison to the GS 9 to 15 story buildings. All in all, it's a huge disappointment for Dallas' skyline, but I've given up on anything dynamic in this city. I go to Atlanta, Chicago, Boston, LA, and Miami where I see spectacular new towers with great flair being built. Heck, Austin & Houston have so much more going for them. Dallas is off-the-shelf mediocre architecture.

I can’t even argue that cuz I largely agree. I’ve tried to find something that’s architectural appealing, I could find nothing. What pisses me off the most is that they continue to call a 9 to 15 story building a “tower”. I’ve never called a building that short a tower in my life. The entire complex is ugly IMO. It sad for me to say that…because I thought this would be that project that put us back on the map. Ppl on other forums already talk crap about our skyline looking dated. The way the hyped this project up is crazy.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby R1070 » 24 Sep 2022 13:53

On the bright side... the shortest building is actually an addition and not in the original plan. The other building is larger than the timber building that was originally planned. The taller buildings are just concepts for what could go there. You know these change over time. I do hope that the GS buildings engage Field Street with retail of some sort. I'm just happy that Dallas has snagged a large relocation in the core of the city. This will lead to more development in the surrounding area for sure.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby rono3849 » 24 Sep 2022 14:16

R1070 wrote:On the bright side... the shortest building is actually an addition and not in the original plan. The other building is larger than the timber building that was originally planned. The taller buildings are just concepts for what could go there. You know these change over time. I do hope that the GS buildings engage Field Street with retail of some sort. I'm just happy that Dallas has snagged a large relocation in the core of the city. This will lead to more development in the surrounding area for sure.


I do wonder whatever happened to Harwood #12, which the graffiti painters have started to deface their canvas fencing with their typical numbskull garbage. Since Harwood had such a big presence and were on the verge of announcing this tower pre-pandemic, I'd have thought they'd move forward on this one, but I guess I was wrong.

Maybe Hillwood Urban can dust off their 80-story tower again? Nah.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Addison » 24 Sep 2022 14:54

R1070 wrote:On the bright side... the shortest building is actually an addition and not in the original plan. The other building is larger than the timber building that was originally planned. The taller buildings are just concepts for what could go there. You know these change over time. I do hope that the GS buildings engage Field Street with retail of some sort. I'm just happy that Dallas has snagged a large relocation in the core of the city. This will lead to more development in the surrounding area for sure.


As it has been mentioned before, Goldman already has a signifcant presence downtown.

The vast majority of additional jobs that have been boasted are only projections, conditional to future economic conditions and growth (right now, Goldman is considering mass layoffs).

For sure, they will definitely be consolidating the existing suburban office jobs in the new downtown campus, but that isn't many more jobs either.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby willyk » 24 Sep 2022 22:16

This is a sincere question— if a premier tenant like GS wants to be in mid-rise campus like buildings, what type of tenants does Hunt think will go into the high rise officer towers?

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby tamtagon » 25 Sep 2022 07:28

^people with above average income, disposable income, who want to live in a city rather than the suburbs. Dallas is beginning to provide that environment again.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby rono3849 » 25 Sep 2022 12:19

tamtagon wrote:^people with above average income, disposable income, who want to live in a city rather than the suburbs. Dallas is beginning to provide that environment again.


The original proposed 83-story building was a hotel/condo/apartment combination building.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby tamtagon » 25 Sep 2022 16:33

Just like a hotel was built on top of the new parking garage to serve the tenants (GS) of the renovated Trammell Crow tower on Ross, I'm sure the new 1,000,000 sqft office space will spur a similar hotel, probably bigger.

It's a little surprising victory park only has The W.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby I45Tex » 25 Sep 2022 18:48

rono3849 wrote:
tamtagon wrote:^people with above average income, disposable income, who want to live in a city rather than the suburbs. Dallas is beginning to provide that environment again.


The original proposed 83-story building was a hotel/condo/apartment combination building.


Correct -- Hunt has never given any sign of "thinking" that the tallest towers would be to attract office tenants, willyk. It is only ever the Hillwood gateway 2012 Field Street across the freeway that was talking to office tenants about their skyline wishes.


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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby willyk » 25 Sep 2022 23:44

I45Tex wrote:
rono3849 wrote:
tamtagon wrote:^people with above average income, disposable income, who want to live in a city rather than the suburbs. Dallas is beginning to provide that environment again.


The original proposed 83-story building was a hotel/condo/apartment combination building.


Correct -- Hunt has never given any sign of "thinking" that the tallest towers would be to attract office tenants, willyk. It is only ever the Hillwood gateway 2012 Field Street across the freeway that was talking to office tenants about their skyline wishes.


Question answered! :D

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby I45Tex » 26 Sep 2022 07:23

Hope it didn’t read as a brusque answer.

Thanks for the update NDoorTX. 49-50 floors and 54-55 floors rendered on the fraternal twin concept in this diagram (but who’s counting anyway…). All white spandrels on all of the buildings, if that goes ahead, is quite dull - nothing about this architecture fits with the colorful past and future of Dallas for me. Could be Singapore, Toronto or anywhere.

Speaking of which, I sure hope Dallas doesn’t have to have one of these cheezy ziggurat terrace spiral buildings now appearing everywhere (and here at stage right). They are not a good solution to anything but marketing.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby dallaz » 27 Sep 2022 14:15

I seen this on Reddit. They’re tearing down the NorthEnd Apts.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dallas/comment ... ame=iossmf

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby LongonBigD » 29 Sep 2022 21:52

Goldman Sachs Offers Glimpse of Proposed Urban Campus in Dallas From CoStar News dated 9/23/22
“The architecture of the 950,000-square-foot office campus spanning 3 acres between downtown Dallas, Uptown Dallas and Victory Park is expected to reflect the city's urban core. … The new 950,000-square-foot campus is planned for the southeast corner of the 11-acre mixed-use development adjacent to the Perot Museum of Nature and Science. The campus, which will sit on 3 acres, will also be adjacent to a 1.5-acre public park with a paseo to connect the park to Field Street for visitors.”

I haven’t seen this rendering:

165B6FA2-1F6C-412D-8912-F499A8593800.jpeg
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby rono3849 » 29 Sep 2022 22:04

If this is remarkable & dynamic architecture, I'd like to know who's voicing this opinion. Seriously, this is off the shelf US suburban office park architecture with potted trees on the roof. This is just sad.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby dallaz » 29 Sep 2022 22:12

Yep, those renderings were in the DMN as well. That’s why I feel the way I feel about it. Nothing memorable whatsoever…maybe we’ll be surprised by the ground level? It lowkey reminds me of the Plaza of the Americas office buildings — dark colored glass boxes.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby lakewoodhobo » 30 Sep 2022 12:41

dallaz wrote:Yep, those renderings were in the DMN as well. That’s why I feel the way I feel about it. Nothing memorable whatsoever…maybe we’ll be surprised by the ground level? It lowkey reminds me of the Plaza of the Americas office buildings — dark colored glass boxes.


That's exactly what it looks like. Good observation.

The only thing I'm excited about here at the point is the park connecting the Perot to the AAC.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby eburress » 30 Sep 2022 12:47

The shape of the GS buildings cuts into portions of what was originally park space so even that's not as good as the original renders/plans! lol

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby willyk » 30 Sep 2022 23:22

dallaz wrote:Yep, those renderings were in the DMN as well. That’s why I feel the way I feel about it. Nothing memorable whatsoever…maybe we’ll be surprised by the ground level? It lowkey reminds me of the Plaza of the Americas office buildings — dark colored glass boxes.


None of these hubs have any architecture— not Liberty Mutual, JP Morgan, State Farm, Schwab/TDA, etc. The attraction to DFW is the low cost of doing business and generic office space seems to be part of the equation. Wish it weren’t so— a good design wouldn't cost much more.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby dallaz » 30 Sep 2022 23:46

willyk wrote:
dallaz wrote:Yep, those renderings were in the DMN as well. That’s why I feel the way I feel about it. Nothing memorable whatsoever…maybe we’ll be surprised by the ground level? It lowkey reminds me of the Plaza of the Americas office buildings — dark colored glass boxes.


None of these hubs have any architecture— not Liberty Mutual, JP Morgan, State Farm, Schwab/TDA, etc. The attraction to DFW is the low cost of doing business and generic office space seems to be part of the equation. Wish it weren’t so— a good design wouldn't cost much more.

True, I get that but this is a mid-rise in our core. You’d think a building this short would have a nicer design. Is the money being mostly spent on the underground garage? ‘Cause it’s defiantly not the design. This is worse than Harwood No.14 but at least they built an actual high-rise.

Come to think of it, we prolly dodged a bullet. Based on the current renderings, I’m not sure if I would want a high-rise of significant height now. At least the new Campus won’t be seen unless you’re up close lol. :lol:
Last edited by dallaz on 01 Oct 2022 00:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby dallaz » 30 Sep 2022 23:57

eburress wrote:The shape of the GS buildings cuts into portions of what was originally park space so even that's not as good as the original renders/plans! lol

Yep, and the only way it’s connected to Field Street is through a small entryway type corridor. Previously, the timber mid-rise was much smaller allowing the park space to open up onto Field. Now, it looks more insular (like others mentioned) with the building walling off the park and Field St.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 03 Oct 2022 15:38

Well, and let's be honest, Hunt doesn't sound like it publicly guaranteed Goldman Sachs anything for the rest of the property. Not to say they will never build anything cause having Goldman Sachs means some further development will be attracted with a lead tenant on the site but the rest of the land is basically a blank canvas. Yes Hunt got approvals previously for other stuff but they could just as easily go for less in a future proposal. With the Turtle Creek Mandarin Oriental hotel dead now maybe Hunt could at least snag a luxury hotel for this site and they would be down the street from the Victory Park site. 3rd time a charm?
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby rono3849 » 03 Oct 2022 16:00

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Well, and let's be honest, Hunt doesn't sound like it publicly guaranteed Goldman Sachs anything for the rest of the property. Not to say they will never build anything cause having Goldman Sachs means some further development will be attracted with a lead tenant on the site but the rest of the land is basically a blank canvas. Yes Hunt got approvals previously for other stuff but they could just as easily go for less in a future proposal. With the Turtle Creek Mandarin Oriental hotel dead now maybe Hunt could at least snag a luxury hotel for this site and they would be down the street from the Victory Park site. 3rd time a charm?


The Mandarin would be a great fit since they have no presence in Dallas. They can certainly build apartment & condos, plus additional office space. I haven't a clue as to what Hunt will do with the remaining property, but it looks like the entire site is going to be cleared as they are tearing down all of the North End Apartment now.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby R1070 » 03 Oct 2022 16:56

Yea, there's no way they were going to keep some of the apartments up. They have to clear the whole site for this development. I hope the park gets built with the GS buildings.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 03 Oct 2022 17:25

Yeah, Goldman would not have wanted their offices staring into some outdated garden-style apartments, so I never thought they would partially keep units either. The ultimate question is, during construction, which will take a while will they get at least one additional tower approved on the rest of the land, or will time prove that we just get a big empty green lot with some temporary sculptures to try to spruce up the lawn? How ironic would it be for Goldmann to have their bldgs and Hunt basically have a large green lawn, not a park but a green space for a long period of time without additional development? I would bet we get at least one residential tower announcement between now and when Goldman moves in, but I doubt it will be over 14 stores, most likely 10-14 with some ground floor retail space. Something that fits in with everything else already built in Uptown and Victory Park. Nothing too groundbreaking, just some JPI/Gables/Amli partnership Luxury Living tower that could fit in anywhere in Oaklawn/Uptown or Frisco.
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby IcedCowboyCoffee » 03 Oct 2022 17:35

cowboyeagle05 wrote:The ultimate question is, during construction, which will take a while will they get at least one additional tower approved on the rest of the land, or will time prove that we just get a big empty green lot with some temporary sculptures to try to spruce up the lawn?

I think we'd be lucky to get a green lot; I'm expecting them to collect parking fees with that space while they wait to build anything else.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby dallaz » 03 Oct 2022 18:03

^^Yep, just like Victory Park — which still isn’t built out.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby R1070 » 03 Oct 2022 20:38

This apt complex is coming down a lot quicker than I thought it would.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 04 Oct 2022 10:41

Plus Mark Cuban wants more surface parking cause he hates structured parking for his fans.
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby potatocoins » 04 Oct 2022 22:44

The more I think about it, the more okay I am with no residential component coming (yet).

Demand for apartments are still high, so high rise apartments will continue to be built in the urban core.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 05 Oct 2022 11:30

Except according to RealPage, demand has dipped significantly, finally causing enough stir to make some real estate minds concerned we need to pause so many units.

Availability has finally increased to 5% from the previous 3%, and rent increases have finally stagnated, which is good for us but just means developers are going to be more choosey about which projects move forward. Probably suburban units will continue, but urban high rises will be less likely unless a neighborhood is underbuilt.
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby tamtagon » 05 Oct 2022 13:28

...this neighborhood is underbuilt.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby willyk » 06 Oct 2022 23:13

The Link and Victory Commons are the only new office buildings nearby, and they will be leased up by the time GS takes occupancy. Proximity to GS will appeal to many financial services and investment companies. I can see this project triggering another office building or two outside of what Hunt has planned.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Urban Toreador » 09 Oct 2022 18:04

IMG_8582.jpg
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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Urbancowboy » 09 Oct 2022 21:52

Wow, that was a quick raze of the apartments.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby CTroyMathis » 10 Oct 2022 14:23

Good photo journalism. Suddenly dawned on me, curious about the concrete garages now. . .

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby Urban Toreador » 10 Oct 2022 22:42

They've already knocked down one concrete garage. The remnants are on the right side of the bottom pic.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby CTroyMathis » 11 Oct 2022 09:28

Thanks for the info!

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby rono3849 » 11 Oct 2022 13:25

If I'm not mistaken, I believe I read that the garage will be underground.

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Re: Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

Postby CTroyMathis » 11 Oct 2022 18:12

It will be, indeed, according to plans - under the private grass and tree area.

I was only curious if there would be a leftover garage for interim use. Not that I want one left behind, though.