Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Posted: **27 May 2020 14:20**

Work Schedule: 01/01/2022 to 12/31/2023
Structure Type: Building
Structure Name: 2200 Pacific Tower

Site Elevation: 458
Structure Height: 830
Total Height (AMSL): 1288

https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 15&row=475
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 18&row=476
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 19&row=477

Posted: **27 May 2020 14:37**

830 ft! Wow.

I wonder what they’re planning....

Posted: **27 May 2020 15:01**

What an unexpected spot for such a tall tower! I think that would make this Dallas' third tallest building. Dang!

Posted: **27 May 2020 15:39**

Wow, I wonder how much of a correlation there is between this tower and the fact that Carpenter Park is being redone?

Posted: **27 May 2020 15:47**

WOW this is taller than Comerica Bank Tower!
very impressive. looking forward to seeing the renderings!

Posted: **27 May 2020 16:48**

Seems like a weird time to mention Uber, seeing as they are laying loads of people off, but Uber?? I mean this is practically right next door to their Deep Ellum buildings (minus the 345). Perhaps Uber is buying up all the surface parking lots for a corporate HQ?

Posted: **27 May 2020 17:08**

Great location. These surface lots have so much potential.

Posted: **27 May 2020 18:14**

Holy shit!! This would be amazing

Posted: **27 May 2020 18:15**

Less than two years seems like a quick build tho for a tower that high, wonder if its 1/1/2021

Posted: **27 May 2020 19:01**

Is it just me or does it feel like a lot of these developments are just trying to get construction started ASAFP while they still have financing?

Posted: **27 May 2020 21:39**

If Dallas built more mixed use and spec office space it would fill up fast. The sight of a building boom would make other developers jump in on the game as well. We just need to get some of these bigger projects going.

Posted: **27 May 2020 22:15**

Agreed, if they could get this going or harwood 12, or the hillwood woodall site, it could create some serious momentum for the CBD area

Posted: **27 May 2020 23:52**

R1070 wrote:If Dallas built more mixed use and spec office space it would fill up fast. The sight of a building boom would make other developers jump in on the game as well. We just need to get some of these bigger projects going.

IDK. I think many developers are waiting to see how the pandemic plays. Now would be a good time for construction starts I would imagine. Workers wanna work!

Posted: **28 May 2020 09:39**

CDC Headquarters? Or maybe Disposal-able Mask incorporated? Maybe Charmin Ultra tower? Could bring that Hillwood proposed tower here that looks like a tall stack of toilet paper rolls.

On a serious note I am assuming this also would be above ground parking since everything office new that has been actually proposed lately in Dallas has been above parking garages. 30-40 stories of parking garage...it's certainly not a large site so unless they are gonna build parking on another site next door and its part of a larger project. This just seems reallllllly random and I doubt it will materialize.

Posted: **28 May 2020 10:24**

Hope it doesn't end up like Cityplace Tower. All alone with no building friends

Posted: **28 May 2020 10:29**

Kelley USA wrote:Seems like a weird time to mention Uber, seeing as they are laying loads of people off, but Uber?? I mean this is practically right next door to their Deep Ellum buildings (minus the 345). Perhaps Uber is buying up all the surface parking lots for a corporate HQ?

I thought that too. An Uber HQ is the only reason I could see a tower of this scale being built in this spot.

Posted: **28 May 2020 10:32**

Just did a quick Google, and no matches, other than the mapping of the site. Either the FAA is the only bunch that knows, or anyone else (media, real estaters, contractors, etc) feels its too early to make things known.

Posted: **28 May 2020 10:42**

I found a feet/stories online converter, and it says
830 feet = 76.66 stories.
If that's true, wouldn't that beat BoA and the tallest in Houston also? IDK if that converter is using correct or regularly-used ceiling heights per floor or not.

Posted: **28 May 2020 11:03**

itsjrd1964 wrote:I found a feet/stories online converter, and it says
830 feet = 76.66 stories.
If that's true, wouldn't that beat BoA and the tallest in Houston also? IDK if that converter is using correct or regularly-used ceiling heights per floor or not.

Floor count is only loosely tied to building height. The BofA tower is 921ft. Houston's tallest, Chase Tower, is 1002

Posted: **28 May 2020 11:09**

Someone may just be testing the waters to see how high they could market the property? Is it worth the cost to request such a review from the FAA without a project actually planned? I mean we see landowners get land zoned all the time for a proposed project which they then include as part of the land sale. The new owner buys it knowing they can build something similar with many issues.

Posted: **28 May 2020 11:41**

itsjrd1964 wrote:I found a feet/stories online converter, and it says
830 feet = 76.66 stories.
If that's true, wouldn't that beat BoA and the tallest in Houston also? IDK if that converter is using correct or regularly-used ceiling heights per floor or not.

For an office building, 830 feet is probably closer to 50 stories.

Posted: **28 May 2020 13:08**

Tucy wrote:
itsjrd1964 wrote:I found a feet/stories online converter, and it says
830 feet = 76.66 stories.
If that's true, wouldn't that beat BoA and the tallest in Houston also? IDK if that converter is using correct or regularly-used ceiling heights per floor or not.

For an office building, 830 feet is probably closer to 50 stories.

I wondered if that site wasn't fudging the conversion. Oh well. If this project ends up being for real, it would interesting to see if it gets any attention from potential tenants, and whether it could lead to other buildings wanting to fill in the gap on the surface lots in between.

Posted: **28 May 2020 13:12**

This is clearly nothing more than a prank. We all know nobody would ever build anything in that dead zone created by the elevated freeway. ;-)

Posted: **28 May 2020 13:22**

Wouldn't this be right on top of the proposed CBD East underground station on the D-2 alignment? If so, I agree w/ cowboyeagle05 they're probably just getting entitlements straightened out so they can market to a developer once D-2 begins to crystallize.

Posted: **28 May 2020 16:06**

Yep, you're right.

Posted: **28 May 2020 16:27**

Maybe they'll have an underground station stop built into the foundation because the building will go deep if it is a 60+ story building.

Posted: **28 May 2020 16:39**

A play for more $$$ when DART needs to buy the property? "Hey, we were going to build a 60 story building on it!"

Interesting, the DCAD map shows at least three separate owners for the block, including the city. Probably out of date, knowing DCAD.

Posted: **29 May 2020 13:30**

Maybe there is a relo looking hard at central city. If so some of these FAA inquiries could make sense.

Posted: **29 May 2020 13:40**

exelone31 wrote:Wow, I wonder how much of a correlation there is between this tower and the fact that Carpenter Park is being redone?

Sorry folks, didn't mean to jinx Carpenter Park with this... :roll:

Posted: **29 May 2020 16:18**

Tnexster wrote:Maybe there is a relo looking hard at central city. If so some of these FAA inquiries could make sense.

If that's the case, I wonder who it would be and who would need that large of a tower?

Tesla, CVS/Aetna, Verizon, Wells Fargo (rumored to be leaving SF), or maybe Amazon realized their mistake?

There was the rumor of Honda, but an urban tower is not really their MO.

Posted: **12 Jun 2020 12:36**

Has anyone been able to see a rendering or know more information? The architect is GFF. I really hope they’re able to pull this off.

Posted: **15 Jun 2020 14:51**

Still smells fishy to me even with a architect of record.

Posted: **17 Jun 2020 12:01**

I keep hearing that Dallas has once again emerged as the relocation city of choice and that the more severe lockdown requirements in California are driving more out of that state. Something could be brewing here. I think its an odd location to shop a 60 story tower without some reason. Uber could be providing some of that incentive if it's viewed as an up and coming area to set up a relocated business and they want to be near the energy of DE.

Posted: **17 Jun 2020 13:20**

The area is like an expansion area of Disneyland. There are so many empty parking lots that anything is possible. I find it exciting that this could bring energy to a long dormant area of Downtown. Deep Ellum has become a focal point for new growth and imagination.

Posted: **17 Jun 2020 14:25**

Deep Ellum, Farmers Market, East Quarter and City Center all touch this area. It’s ripe for development. This could be a dynamic area of downtown Dallas.

Posted: **17 Jun 2020 14:37**

After years of subsidies, the light rail-served Midtown part of Houston has finally gentrified, and Rice is also investing in making it their innovation district. Midtown is much less adjacent to their Museum District campus or to downtown Houston activity than the areas around 2200 Pacific are to activity here. This infill neighborhood could become dynamic pretty quickly if we can keep the individual projects small enough. Something taking off fast makes Dallas developers want to optimize for more efficient floor plates, fewer front doors on any given street face. Then we get the feel of Uptown all over again.

Posted: **17 Jun 2020 16:11**

That's my favorite part of Houston

Posted: **18 Jun 2020 03:31**

Wish it would happen. Seems like Spire Phase II.

Posted: **13 Aug 2020 23:22**

maconahey wrote:
Work Schedule: 01/01/2022 to 12/31/2023
Structure Type: Building
Structure Name: 2200 Pacific Tower

Site Elevation: 458
Structure Height: 830
Total Height (AMSL): 1288

https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 15&row=475
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 18&row=476
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 19&row=477

Looks like the FAA changed the info on these links as well.

Posted: **14 Aug 2020 08:43**

Build Out Carpenter Park, fill in a few of those vacant blocks there and you have a totally different environment. I hope we will see the small surface lots scattered around East Quarter developed into nice infill as well. There’s so much potential here.

Posted: **01 Sep 2020 16:40**

Tnexster wrote:Maybe there is a relo looking hard at central city. If so some of these FAA inquiries could make sense.

^^^^^^^
Several MAJOR relocations are evidently in play and are definite potentials for Dallas according to the Dallas Regional Chambers' recent August 25, 2020 article:

https://dallasinnovates.com/recent-success-should-carry-dallas-fort-worth-forward/

While the article initially recaps the absolute stellar growth the Dallas area enjoyed in 2019 leading into 2020, listed a little further down in the article are numerous major corporate headquarters relocations and/or major expansions of Fortune 500 companies that are actively in play for Dallas right now.

An 830 foot tall tower would certainly be something that a Fortune 500 might want as their new headquarters building ... or even a major Fortune 500 expansion into Dallas as a lead tenant.

In some ways, as bad as the pandemic has been, it may actually accelerate relocation activity to Dallas and the Dallas area from some of the hardest hit East and West Coast cities that are grappling with major negatives all occurring at once (lingering business shut downs that are causing untold businesses to go under, mind numbing increases in crime, violence, looting, and destruction of property, people fleeing those cities literally by the tens of thousands due to the unrest, high cost of living, high taxes, etc., yet more huge tax increases being levied or discussed to make up for major budget shortfalls, etc., etc., etc.).

Dallas is looking more and more like the land of opportunity to these major Fortune 500's ... I guess time will tell.

Posted: **01 Sep 2020 18:22**

800' footers just aren't a reality in this climate. And they weren't prior to that , in Dallas anyway. In all likeliness, the FAA request was just testing the waters by the developer.

Posted: **01 Sep 2020 19:31**

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:800' footers just aren't a reality in this climate. And they weren't prior to that , in Dallas anyway. In all likeliness, the FAA request was just testing the waters by the developer.

^^^^^^^
But maybe in this climate:

Chart: Dallas Tops US Markets Amid Covid-19 Downturn
By Alexis Maltin, Real Capital Analytics, July 29th, 2020

For the first time ever, Dallas ranked as the #1 U.S. commercial property market at the halfway mark of the year, despite a dip in investment activity. Dallas overtook Manhattan and Los Angeles (and Seattle), where sales activity fell by more than 40% compared to the first six months of 2019 as the Covid-19 crisis scuttled dealmaking and sidelined investors.
...

Article: https://www.rcanalytics.com/chart-dallas-top-market-h1-2020/

Posted: **02 Sep 2020 09:17**

In this soley Dallas or DFW? Cause DFW I could see this being true now it will be easy to say we are gonna lease out space in a sprawling office complex in the far flung burbs for "health & safety" reasons.

Posted: **02 Sep 2020 10:08**

Pretty sure it's DFW, not just Dallas. (At the very least it is the Dallas-Plano-Irving metro division of the metro area.)

And it tells us not very much specifically about office space and less than that about the climate for 800' office towers. This data covers all commercial real estate (it looks like Dallas was driven to the top largely because of large portfolio deals of warehouse/logistics properties.)

Posted: **02 Sep 2020 14:39**

NY was split into Manhattan, the outer boroughs, Northern NJ, and at least two more markets that didn't rank highly enough to make the Top Markets infographic (just like DC and its VA suburbs were listed separately but its MD suburbs were below the cutoff). North Bay is usually separate from the three Bay Area markets listed (which already add up to 10.0, btw).
However if this level does keep up, DFW will be active enough that foreign CRE investors will be comfortable doing bigger deals here.

Posted: **05 Mar 2021 10:18**

Just dropping in to bump this up a bit. Been dreaming about an 800 footer overlooking Carpenter & the EQ (as well as Deep Ellum in the opposite direction).

Dream with me for a second y'all... In an IDEAL world, what style of architecture would you like to see on a tower of that size here?

Posted: **05 Mar 2021 10:40**

I wish Dallas would go big in downtown with something not unlike Wilshire Grand in LA. Be great fun to have the tallest tower in Texas sitting downtown.

Posted: **05 Mar 2021 10:50**

undefinedprocess wrote:Just dropping in to bump this up a bit. Been dreaming about an 800 footer overlooking Carpenter & the EQ (as well as Deep Ellum in the opposite direction).

Dream with me for a second y'all... In an IDEAL world, what style of architecture would you like to see on a tower of that size here?

Something reminiscent of "The Shard" in London would be killer!

Posted: **05 Mar 2021 10:57**

Also, shameless plug to both of you (Tnexster & Tivo_Kenevil), are y'all in the DFWU Discord yet? If not, you need to join.

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