Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Posted: **10 Mar 2024 13:45**

More local media outlets are picking up the story that Reunion Tower & the Hyatt Regency will be torn down to accommodate the new HSR to Ft. Worth. As you would predict, the backlash and outrage from Dallasites is fast & furious. I can't imagine the politicians involved with this project can ignore this reaction to the destruction of an iconic Dallas landmark. Certainly cooler & smarter heads can resolve this impasse.

Posted: **10 Mar 2024 14:10**

Or an eventual new rail viaduct could cross the scraped convention center acreage. We could bury the new convention center underground just like we issued a referendum bond to actually do, right?

Really not sure why a windowless series of halls ever needs to pop back up over street level like a vintage 1980s urban renewal vision and sport all those expensively engineered street-spanning crossings to begin with. The dozens of added trusses are not so much cheaper than building a new, not-aged city subsidized hotel somewhere else.

Sheesh, if we need a large open site above ground, build the CC and HSR and hotel in the Fair Park parking section. Revitalizing Fair Park was the other part of that bond referendum.

Posted: **10 Mar 2024 14:31**

Oh noes, Reunion blah blah shock and awe. I love lamp. All your base are belong to us. And, clicks, too.
A lot of wasted breath worrying about something so ridiculous and absurd.

Posted: **10 Mar 2024 15:08**

rono3849 wrote:More local media outlets are picking up the story that Reunion Tower & the Hyatt Regency will be torn down to accommodate the new HSR to Ft. Worth. As you would predict, the backlash and outrage from Dallasites is fast & furious. I can't imagine the politicians involved with this project can ignore this reaction to the destruction of an iconic Dallas landmark. Certainly cooler & smarter heads can resolve this impasse.

But this is 100% false, right? I haven't personally seen any proposal that would tear either of them down. Am I missing something?

Posted: **10 Mar 2024 15:27**

Matt777 wrote:
rono3849 wrote:More local media outlets are picking up the story that Reunion Tower & the Hyatt Regency will be torn down to accommodate the new HSR to Ft. Worth. As you would predict, the backlash and outrage from Dallasites is fast & furious. I can't imagine the politicians involved with this project can ignore this reaction to the destruction of an iconic Dallas landmark. Certainly cooler & smarter heads can resolve this impasse.

But this is 100% false, right? I haven't personally seen any proposal that would tear either of them down. Am I missing something?

This…I’ve also not seen the Hyatt-related doom and gloom plans.

Hunt’s main concern is about the effect it might have on the value of their real estate and their “visionary” plans for a development that will never be built.

Posted: **10 Mar 2024 17:48**

Dallas_Uptown wrote:This…I’ve also not seen the Hyatt-related doom and gloom plans.

Hunt’s main concern is about the effect it might have on the value of their real estate and their “visionary” plans for a development that will never be built.

Yeah, I'd love to know how this mass-hysteria started. The Hunt-commissioned renderings do show how the tracks would block some hotel-room views from the Hyatt. I imagine that somehow translated to "bulldozing Reunion Tower".

IMG_3276 5.jpg

Posted: **10 Mar 2024 21:41**

An idea I've had before would be to rebuild the hotel and integrate it into the HSR station (Reunion Tower itself would of course stay). The Hunts would get a shiny new hotel with great integration with the station and potential retail, and the station would be immediately adjacent and connected to Union Station to maximize connections to DART/TRE/Amtrak/any potential future lines. It would however require more certainty about the HSR projects to be feasible.

Posted: **10 Mar 2024 21:53**

Dallas_Uptown wrote:
Matt777 wrote:
rono3849 wrote:More local media outlets are picking up the story that Reunion Tower & the Hyatt Regency will be torn down to accommodate the new HSR to Ft. Worth. As you would predict, the backlash and outrage from Dallasites is fast & furious. I can't imagine the politicians involved with this project can ignore this reaction to the destruction of an iconic Dallas landmark. Certainly cooler & smarter heads can resolve this impasse.

But this is 100% false, right? I haven't personally seen any proposal that would tear either of them down. Am I missing something?

This…I’ve also not seen the Hyatt-related doom and gloom plans.

Hunt’s main concern is about the effect it might have on the value of their real estate and their “visionary” plans for a development that will never be built.

.
The preferred proposal shows the HSR line between the Hyatt and Union Station. Pics on this site clearly show…

Posted: **10 Mar 2024 22:55**

Im all in favor of extending HSR to DFW and DTFW. Gotta let Arlington make due with regular intraurban rail, be it light rail coop with dart or new TRE route from FW to union station.

HSR to the airport and FW becomes viable with a I-35 route.

Posted: **10 Mar 2024 23:21**

lakewoodhobo wrote:
Dallas_Uptown wrote:This…I’ve also not seen the Hyatt-related doom and gloom plans.

Hunt’s main concern is about the effect it might have on the value of their real estate and their “visionary” plans for a development that will never be built.

Yeah, I'd love to know how this mass-hysteria started. The Hunt-commissioned renderings do show how the tracks would block some hotel-room views from the Hyatt. I imagine that somehow translated to "bulldozing Reunion Tower".

IMG_3276 5.jpg

Look no further than Hunt themselves is my guess.
It doesn't take much to spread a narrative these days. Dallastexas_tv on Instagram propagated the story that Reunion Tower would be torn down. Referencing a WFAA article that cites Hunt stating the rail line "could force them to sacrifice the iconic Reunion Tower Ball". That instagram account alone has 1.1 million followers and the post currently has 3,928 comments.

Posted: **10 Mar 2024 23:56**

So ridiculous. It also almost comes off as a thinly veiled threat if anything... block our views and we'll tear down a city icon.

Does Hunt make enough revenue from the tower to cover costs? Are they possibly looking to offload responsibility onto the city as it ages and maintenance costs increase?

Posted: **11 Mar 2024 09:49**

lakewoodhobo wrote:The Hunt-commissioned renderings do show how the tracks would block some hotel-room views from the Hyatt.

Even 'some' feels like a generous term lol. What is that, one, maybe two rooms that would have that exact view?

CityHeart wrote:Look no further that Hunt themselves is my guess.
It doesn't take much to spread a narrative these days. Dallastexas_tv on Instagram propagated the story that Reunion Tower would be torn down. Referencing a WFAA article that cites Hunt stating the rail line "could force them to sacrifice the iconic Reunion Tower Ball". That instagram account alone has 1.1 million followers and that post currently has 3,928 comments.

Big ol crock of dillo dung that the narrative is so out of control.
What strange timing that the distant-future sim city renderings for this site with no timeline for breaking ground get put out mere months before we see these Hunt-commissioned renderings of the rail alignment and NCTCOG's presentation to the council. Big ~sure'd be a shame if something were to happen to this pretty development that most definitely is going to happen~ energy.

If anything damages the viability of this site, it wouldn't be a hypothetical rail line, it would be the new alignment of the convention center turning the reunion site into the butthole end of it.

Just visualize this rendering without the rail line in it. The city has to purchase some of the old-DMN site to give this convention center the floor space they're promising. That fancy front entrance of the new CC facing out to the newly opened land is on the other side of it; Look at how cut off the reunion site is from everything with this version of the convention center.
Also, remember just behind the elevated rail in this picture there are still eight rail tracks on the ground splitting the area in half. 8!
A set of pillars would be the least of this site's problems.

Posted: **11 Mar 2024 11:26**

I first heard of the dumb idea of demolishing the Hyatt and Reunion Tower on an Instagram feed. The first thing I thought, was this was bad reporting or perhaps a bad understanding of the press release. Now with Hunt protesting the line to Fort Worth and radio systems repeating the demolition concept, it's beginning to feel like bad propaganda put out by someone hoping to sew the seeds of misinformation.

As I see the photo/ concept rendering posted by IcedCowboy, I do see how the line cuts across the Hunt property. But it's not as if the Hunt property wasn't already hemmed in by the Mix Master and several roads in front of the existing complex. A more architectural "opening" of the support columns could make access more pronounced and congruent with the new development. I can't see how having the rail line to Texas first high speed rail is not considered a boon. Unless you are a lazy developer with no vision.

Simple concept of my thoughts ...

22-545_Reunion-MP-HSR-renderings4.jpg

Posted: **11 Mar 2024 12:51**

"Renderings commissioned by Hunt Realty Investments show the train line passing inches from the Hyatt Regency's hotel room windows and the Reunion Tower complex. This would force the company to sacrifice more than 1,000 hotel rooms, its affordable housing development plans and the iconic Reunion Tower Ball, Hunt Realty Investments President Colin Fitzgibbons said." - WFAA.

It's disappointing that WFAA would just regurgitate this without context. The context being that no formal engineering design work has begun yet, so we don't actually know any of this. No one does! Why should we think Hunt Realty has prescient foresight about how many inches away it would be from the hyatt, about its building materials, about how clean or not clean it will be, about the paint color, about the number and sizes of pillars?

"Renderings commissioned by Hunt Realty Investments show ... This would force the company to--" come on.

And for the record, the Hyatt Regency has 1,120 rooms in it. Whether he's talking about having to sacrifice 1,000 rooms of the hyatt regency or if he's talking about a completely hypothetical new hotel that doesn't exist yet (or if he's talking about a combination of both), it's such an asinine suggestion.

Posted: **11 Mar 2024 13:13**

Why not swing the HSR to Cowtown around the frontage of the Hunt property to run along the freeways? This makes the most sense.

Posted: **13 Mar 2024 07:49**

Dallas could f'up a wet dream!

Posted: **13 Mar 2024 11:11**

My Hyundai Santa Fe can get to ft worth faster. That solves that.

Posted: **13 Mar 2024 12:20**

Joking aside, I was wondering has there been any proposals of making the HSR station under ground in just that section where hunts project is? Would that work at all?

Posted: **13 Mar 2024 16:07**

mhainli wrote:
rono3849 wrote:Personally, I don't see the Hunts moving forward on this development, HSR or not. The Convention Center will have to show that Dallas is still a destination city for conventions. Las Vegas is the #1 market by far for these kinds of gatherings. Dallas just doesn't have that kind of drawing power that Las Vegan can deliver day-in and day-out. They aren't going to build hotels to sit empty and few people really have a desire to live in that part of downtown. I think they'll focus their attention to the area surrounding the Goldman-Sachs building on Field Street.

I think most of us are skeptical of and tired of seeing developer’s elaborate plans that never get built or get cheapened out over time. In Hunt’s case, they should be given some credit for keeping the Reunion site together for something big/special and not just selling off parcels to pay tax bills. Their plans for the site are very impressive and VERY conceptual and market conditions will ultimately determine what gets built and when. A hotel (or two) timed to open with the new convention center is likely. Other than that, what is there a market for? An apartment tower perhaps? I’m befuddled with Hunt’s opposition to the HSR line going through their development,” as if there is huge current demand for the $5B they are proposing. They (and the city) should be embracing the HSR to Fort Worth line and actively involved in suggesting reasonable changes and alternative routes - not demanding underground alternatives that could ultimately kill the entire HSR system. The HSR line with people mover similar to what is proposed only helps create the demand that Hunt needs for the $5B development.

Nah, HSR to cow town is dumb, upgrade the TRE and save the money for other projects. It's just a vanity project. City is right to demand underground, especially since ft worth is getting their end submerged

Also, hunt has been holding that land for like half century (not exaggerating); they'll build nothing I reckon.

Posted: **13 Mar 2024 22:00**

zblevinz555 wrote:Joking aside, I was wondering has there been any proposals of making the HSR station under ground in just that section where hunts project is? Would that work at all?

Not really. Due to I-30 and the soil/rock conditions due to being in the floodplain, and the need to minimize the grade for the trains, you'd need to start the tunnel pretty far away and make the station way deeper than the elevated station would be elevated. Same problems as would arise from putting the station underground in the same spot as the currently planned one.

Posted: **14 Mar 2024 09:21**

"upgrade the TRE and save the money for other projects." Tivo_Kenevil

I think this is a good idea.
Is it possible to extend the end of the TRE from Union Station to the Cedars using existing rail lines?
That would allow the direct transfer to TRE. Upgrading the schedule would be helpful.

Posted: **14 Mar 2024 09:27**

northsouth wrote:
zblevinz555 wrote:Joking aside, I was wondering has there been any proposals of making the HSR station under ground in just that section where hunts project is? Would that work at all?

Not really. Due to I-30 and the soil/rock conditions due to being in the floodplain, and the need to minimize the grade for the trains, you'd need to start the tunnel pretty far away and make the station way deeper than the elevated station would be elevated. Same problems as would arise from putting the station underground in the same spot as the currently planned one.

Yeah, it would probably make the same problems even worse tbh. Because of the grade limitations, NCTCOG estimated an added 20 minutes to the route just from putting the Cedars station underground versus above ground in the same exact spot. The steep grade of the track would require the train to slow down significantly to safely get to the underground station, and putting it at the reunion site instead would require it to be even steeper for it to get back above ground in time to go over the trinity; so steep that it's probably not possible at all.

Posted: **06 May 2024 10:32**

So, yesterday I did something I haven't done in a decade and that's go up Reunion tower. I wanted to get a really solid picture of the convention center area before the tear down eventually starts.
But while I was there I saw something peculiar on those informational touch screens they have up there. When you navigate to access the live camera feeds the cameras have completely nonsensical thumbnails.

reu1.jpg

reu3.jpg

image1(2).jpg

But I'm posting this here because I was wondering if anyone has this original rendering in better quality? I would really love to add it to my collection of pie-in-the-sky proposals that never materialized.
When I last was there all this geodeck stuff was new, so I assume this rendering has been there this entire time.

Posted: **06 May 2024 12:14**

IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:So, yesterday I did something I haven't done in a decade and that's go up Reunion tower. I wanted to get a really solid picture of the convention center area before the tear down eventually starts.
But while I was there I saw something peculiar on those informational touch screens they have up there. When you navigate to access the live camera feeds the cameras have completely nonsensical thumbnails.

reu1.jpg
reu3.jpg
image1(2).jpg

But I'm posting this here because I was wondering if anyone has this original rendering in better quality? I would really love to add it to my collection of pie-in-the-sky proposals that never materialized.
When I last was there all this geodeck stuff was new, so I assume this rendering has been there this entire time.

Posted: **06 May 2024 12:34**

Thank you so much zblevinz!! You're awesome.

But wow! What was the context of this absurdity? Trying to pitch a toll road induced utopia?
I like how nature has seemingly reclaimed the mixmaster.

Posted: **06 May 2024 13:22**

IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:Thank you so much zblevinz!! You're awesome.

But wow! What was the context of this absurdity? Trying to pitch a toll road induced utopia?
I like how nature has seemingly reclaimed the mixmaster.

I can’t remember where I got those I had ‘em forever. I think it was from AIA Dallas or something lol. But as for your question your guess is as good as mine. It does boggle my mind though that it’s 2024 the trinity river corridor hasn’t come close to its potential.

Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

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