Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Hey all - 2019's almost over, and I wanted to start a fun, brief conversation on what projects / developments the forum is most excited for this coming year. To start, below are the 3-5 current and proposed projects I'm most pumped about (in no particular order). I think I'm most excited about the developments that will contribute most immediately to residential density in some of our core urban neighborhoods. I think all of these have heavy retail components too, and am excited to see what other cool brands (re)discover an urban Dallas presence (see: Patagonia)

Currently underway
1. The Victor
2. 1401 Elm Street remodel
3. AMLI Fountain Place
4. Atelier apartments
5. The Epic (office + hotel + residential)
Honorable mention: East Quarter

Proposed
1. Routh and Cedar Springs + Quadrangle re-do
2. Central Market McKinney & Lemmon
3. Field Street district
4. JW Marriott Arts District
5. 1899 McKinney
Honorable mentions: Mockingbird Station TC, Harwood No. 11/12, Knox-Henderson?

Look forward to seeing other members' opinions! Been a pretty great year for Dallas urban real estate developments. Some cool finishes (The Union, Hall Residences) and a ton of great projects underway or announced. Even if we discount the latter category and assume some don't make it, we've got a pretty great slate and feels awesome to be part of this thriving city.

If Texas Central breaks ground next year, I would place it very high on future impacts to the Dallas economy for decades to come. But I'll readily admit, it will not be open for business in 2020.

I think 1899 Mckinney is my personal favorite. The architecture is exciting and a step above almost any other project. It's a much better development than what is currently on the sight, in an area that needs more residential. The developer has directly said several good urban planning concepts are part of their goals, and the tower will convert to condos eventually! All underground parking, ground level activation, etc etc. Very excited about this project.

I am starting to think #2 under the proposed list is not going to happen. There has been no activity here for months. I know that it is a big project, but something is up.

Re: #2, I recall someone on this forum saying that they heard the developer speak at an event back in November and he mentioned they were targeting to break ground Feb/March 2020. It's a long time, but HEB / Central Market notoriously takes their sweet time in any expansion / major capex. They're a (big) family business that march to their own timelines (not those of investors).

I can see two obvious reasons for the delay: 1) a store unlike any other CM location, in terms of urban density, footprint size / type, services and amenities, etc. and HEB's perfectionism in ensuring it's designed correctly and 2) delay from getting Preston Royal location back up and running (though I'm not sure this would affect it). Who knows, slow start could be for other reasons.

My optimistic spin on things. Fingers crossed to see some movement in Q1'20.

I'd say I'm primarily excited to see the East Quarter and Discovery District finally start to take shape. Aside from that, I think the Central Market and Quandrangle developments would be quite impactful whenever they actually happen.

jetnd87 wrote:I think all of these have heavy retail components too, and am excited to see what other cool brands (re)discover an urban Dallas presence (see: Patagonia)

I think 2020 will be a great year in regards to new brands (re)discovering urban Dallas. Maybe I'm being optimistic, but I'm really thinking we'll also get another relocation on the same scale as Uber next year (we certainly have the room for it).

I'd love to see some sort of start on the TX HSR project. Any & all things inside the downtown core is good.

Good thread..

1) Discovery District / East Quarter
2) Kylde Warren park expansion
3) Harwood 12 - 42 story office tower
4) Sonder rental 26 story tower on mckinney
5) Central Market West Village tower

That deal ATT is working on deserves mention. It could really help jump start the big development (Smart District?) behind City Hall AND could help jump start the former Reunion Arena/DMN site. Should ATT make the downtown cluster an amenity for the top tech workers, a string of tech-worker relocations similar to Uber is likely to happen in other downtown neighborhoods.

As a Lower Greenville resident, I'm more interested in the small scale projects around town that'll really change the face/culture of Dallas than the big projects. Henderson getting completed is really exciting. All those empty lots being filled in will make the neighborhood fantastic. It does make me sad they're making the street smaller by adding parking spaces along the side, and not really by expanding the sidewalk. Those 3 foot sidewalks on one of the most potentially walkable streets in Dallas feels weird.

Similarly, I'm most excited for the continued growth and change of Bishop Arts. Truly I think it is becoming the cool Brooklyn version of Dallas.

I also wouldn't mind if a new Dallas' tallest building was announced Downtown. I'd really like something to shakeup our Downtown skyline which has more or less stayed the same for 40 years (if you don't include Uptown/Victory Park I know).

Mine:

1. Henderson Avenue--all of it
2. The Epic
3. East Quarter
4. Continued street activation in Victory Park
5. All the hotel construction in Uptown and what that will mean for street life
6. Weirs mixed use in Knox

For me, it’s:

1. 1401 Elm
2. AT&T Discovery District
3. East Quarter (300 Pearl / Meletio tower)
4. Uber HQ
Honorable mention: Bishop Arts expansion

Seeing 1401 Elm open will be the end of an era, even if it’s not as exciting as once proposed. Discovery District could bring back to life a dead corner of the CBD that a long (LONG) time ago was considered the center of downtown. 300 Pearl will prove that the market can support a downtown tower south of EMC, and the Uber tower should wake up the sleepy part of downtown near Carpenter Plaza and the sea of parking lots there.

As for Bishop Arts, I’d like to see how the market reacts to all the recent construction there. New adaptive-reuse projects like the Mayor’s House and the small hotel south of Davis will be a nice contrast to all the new stuff.

And this is not major by any means, but I’m personally looking forward to platform extensions along the red line and taking a 3-car train on my daily commute.

hjkll wrote:As a Lower Greenville resident, I'm more interested in the small scale projects around town that'll really change the face/culture of Dallas than the big projects. Henderson getting completed is really exciting. All those empty lots being filled in will make the neighborhood fantastic. It does make me sad they're making the street smaller by adding parking spaces along the side, and not really by expanding the sidewalk. Those 3 foot sidewalks on one of the most potentially walkable streets in Dallas feels weird.

Similarly, I'm most excited for the continued growth and change of Bishop Arts. Truly I think it is becoming the cool Brooklyn version of Dallas.

I also wouldn't mind if a new Dallas' tallest building was announced Downtown. I'd really like something to shakeup our Downtown skyline which has more or less stayed the same for 40 years (if you don't include Uptown/Victory Park I know).

I have lived in Uptown for the last two years and I am still baffled by the narrow sidewalks on McKinney. I know Dallas is known for being unfriendly to pedestrians but with Uptown supposedly being the most pedestrian friend neighborhood in the city, it ridiculous how unsafe some stretches are on McKinney. Boll to Worthington is a complete joke and Dallas should be embarrassed by that stretch.

Lakewood2Uptown wrote:

hjkll wrote:As a Lower Greenville resident, I'm more interested in the small scale projects around town that'll really change the face/culture of Dallas than the big projects. Henderson getting completed is really exciting. All those empty lots being filled in will make the neighborhood fantastic. It does make me sad they're making the street smaller by adding parking spaces along the side, and not really by expanding the sidewalk. Those 3 foot sidewalks on one of the most potentially walkable streets in Dallas feels weird.

Similarly, I'm most excited for the continued growth and change of Bishop Arts. Truly I think it is becoming the cool Brooklyn version of Dallas.

I also wouldn't mind if a new Dallas' tallest building was announced Downtown. I'd really like something to shakeup our Downtown skyline which has more or less stayed the same for 40 years (if you don't include Uptown/Victory Park I know).

I have lived in Uptown for the last two years and I am still baffled by the narrow sidewalks on McKinney. I know Dallas is known for being unfriendly to pedestrians but with Uptown supposedly being the most pedestrian friend neighborhood in the city, it ridiculous how unsafe some stretches are on McKinney. Boll to Worthington is a complete joke and Dallas should be embarrassed by that stretch.

I've often wondered how they would even fit nice sidewalks. I mean, sure.. in some areas you have little useless strips of grass that should be long gone, but if they start removing trees to make it happen, I think that would be downgrade, honestly.

[edit] Also, isn't this also something that needs to be changed by the Uptown/Oak lawn district? Don't they require that stupid little grass strip? Do they have any intention of ever updating their requirements? It doesn't seem so...

hjkll wrote:Those 3 foot sidewalks on one of the most potentially walkable streets in Dallas feels weird.

Unless plans have changed, the intent is to fill in the space between those three foot sidewalks and the road with pavers (no more useless strips of grass), so when finished the sidewalks will actually be much wider than they appear now.

emmasensei wrote:Mine:

1. Henderson Avenue--all of it
2. The Epic
3. East Quarter
4. Continued street activation in Victory Park
5. All the hotel construction in Uptown and what that will mean for street life
6. Weirs mixed use in Knox

Mine is very similar, mainly because most of these are tied to street activation. I, like you, am obviously biased to Henderson since I live one street over and it will have a direct impact on me. Epic intrigues me because it is clearly going to be a catalyst for some major changes in and around Deep Ellum - especially as you see some of the land deals taking place. It will be interesting to see what that means for the district.

I'll also be keeping an eye on the various proposals around uptown...The central, the twin Cityplace tower etc, to see if those becoming more concrete and actually move forward.

Yep, my list essentially covers many of the areas I try to walk in nearly every day. Another one is the truly aggressive gentrification happening in the box between Fitzhugh to the north, Central Expressway, Ross, and Cityplace to the south. (Would we technically call that Belmont Park?)

The entire neighborhood is being constructed out of thin air, to the point where it's not so much exciting, but downright uncomfortable to witness. Not many folks seems to actually live there anymore (or yet). It's like one of those terrible, far-flung McMansionville neighborhoods in the middle of bare fields, except it's happening right in the city. I've never seen anything like it. And the single-family and duplex homes are 600-800k. What will Fitzhugh and Ross look like when hundreds of 600k-caliber households descend on East Dallas and settle in? It's such a big change, happening so fast.

malachi896 wrote:Epic intrigues me because it is clearly going to be a catalyst for some major changes in and around Deep Ellum - especially as you see some of the land deals taking place. It will be interesting to see what that means for the district.

The Epic/Uber deal has been the biggest surprise for me, and, I agree, it'll mean some major changes to the area. We've just recently seen a Chicago developer acquire a decent sized chunk of prime real estate in the area, so I imagine any avaialble land is going to get gobbled up pretty quickly in the next year.

malachi896 wrote:I'll also be keeping an eye on the various proposals around uptown...The central, the twin Cityplace tower etc, to see if those becoming more concrete and actually move forward.

Uptown will definitely be interesting to watch. It feels like it's gotten to a point where it is less of a destination for the suburban commuters, and, as a result, businesses in the area will need to rely more on local traffic to support them. I really think it's time for some of the bigger projects to start moving forward to really get more people living/working in the area.

emmasensei wrote:The entire neighborhood is being constructed out of thin air, to the point where it's not so much exciting, but downright uncomfortable to witness. Not many folks seems to actually live there anymore (or yet). It's like one of those terrible, far-flung McMansionville neighborhoods in the middle of bare fields, except it's happening right in the city. I've never seen anything like it. And all the single-family and duplex homes are 600-800k. What will Fitzhugh and Ross look like when hundreds of 600k-caliber households descend on East Dallas and settle in? It's such a big change, happening so fast.

Agreed - and this has been under-discussed on the forum b/c it's multiple very small-scale projects instead of a single big project by one developer. Given it's location, it was only a matter of time before Belmont Park - and really Old East Dallas in general - started to change. I'm sure it'll be completely unrecognizable by end of the 20s.

Indeed! And I live north of Fitzhugh off Henderson, certainly another area with a lot of change, but it's less impactful up here overall because we also have very large apartment complexes and historic neighborhoods (I live in one of the modern monstrosities, although I'm part of Cochran Heights Historic District) and then the new 600k SFHs just fill in the gaps.

But Belmont Park is just blocks and blocks of new 3 or 4 bedroom homes, and that's a decidedly different demographic. Will all these people beat feet to the suburbs once the children arrive? Where will they go to school? (I'm new to the area and don't have kids, so I frankly don't know anything about school options.) They're going to need services that aren't just bars and taquieras, so where are those services going to go? Ross? City Place? It'll be interesting to watch.

FYI the area between Fitzhugh, Haskell, Ross, and Central is 337 acres, measured with freemaptools.com

emmasensei wrote:But Belmont Park is just blocks and blocks of new 3 or 4 bedroom homes, and that's a decidedly different demographic. Will all these people beat feet to the suburbs once the children arrive? Where will they go to school? (I'm new to the area and don't have kids, so I frankly don't know anything about school options.) They're going to need services that aren't just bars and taquieras, so where are those services going to go? Ross? City Place? It'll be interesting to watch.

Do you have any specific examples of what houses you are talking about? I've been through this area a couple of times, but I don't recall any houses sticking out to me like this, so I'm curious to know what you're talking about.

I mean, they're everywhere. Take a drive down the southern end of Manett Street--you have to walk in the road because every lot on either side is under construction. Or any of the streets between Kirby and Carroll Avenue.

To illustrate, we almost bought a house on Kirby in mid-2018, but I was too leery of the neighborhood. I'm definitely an urban pioneer, but at the time, it felt too risky. I probably wouldn't have those qualms today (although I ultimately grew to much prefer being right off Henderson, regardless).

I walk in that neighborhood multiple times a week to get to fitness studios and our doggy daycare on Belmont. I already have anxiety about my favorite yoga studio and the doggy daycare getting priced out due to rising rents. You can tell the area they're in used to be VERY rough--I've had a couple people express shock that I walk in the area. Any of the old existing bungalows have bars on all the windows.

Those are really the only businesses of any kind until you get to Haskell where the Kroger is, so lots of people have no idea how much residential construction is happening because they never go down those streets. Yet another reason why I'm so curious about the retail mix on the future CityPlace lots.

FYI the area between Fitzhugh, Haskell, Ross, and Central is 337 acres, measured with freemaptools.com

Is that a lot? How many SFHs/duplexes, on average, can one cram into 337 acres?

Sorry, I misunderstood when you said 3-4 bedroom homes. I was picturing Plano-style McMansions. Yes, I do know what you're talking about and have seen all the construction of new houses in the area.

I guess I misunderstood the initial tone of your original post. It should definitely be interesting to see how this side of town develops, though.

Plano-style McMansions?! NIMBY!

Some of them are definitely over 3k square feet, though, so they're called "McModerns."

Is that a lot? How many SFHs/duplexes, on average, can one cram into 337 acres?

“A lot” can be 0.04 acre, or 25 townhomes per acre, but even when two or three floors of habitable space are on top of every garage, Sunbelt cities still use a significant percentage of their residential land on passive pavement, drainage, utility easements and unusable landscaped buffers in one form or another.

That drops the overall neighborhood population right back down to the level where schools and jobs and shopping are doomed to need to gather their patrons from an inconvenient distance even when the job is not requiring a specialized workforce pool.

...if you cut 337 in half, multiply 25 homes per remaining acre by a household size of 1.4 or so, and the residential population would reach about 5900 (or 11000/square mile, although a whole square mile is 640, not 340, acres). That density is comparable to Yonkers, NY, or Oak Park, IL.

Hi neighbors! Wow a lot of people on this site live in LG/ED, it would be interesting to anonymously map where everyone resides. I'm in LG but right off Fitzhugh and am very close to the described Belmont Park area. It's absolutely insane how much it is changing. At least for the most part it looks like a lot of townhouses and duplexes. What infuriates me is when those old crappy houses a block west of Greenville Ave are torn down and replaced with a single family home. Really? At least replace it with a duplex. Streets like Monarch and Prairie are just full of construction. It's really exciting to watch. Fitzhugh 5 years ago seemed like the dividing line for gentrification but now its creeping further and further southwest and southeast. I wonder how much longer until gentrification really takes hold off for example the Bryan/Haskell corner area. That whole area and everything south until 30 seems like it hasn't changed at all for 5 decades. I feel like that area will really turn in the next decade.

I really wish all of Old East Dallas would just be 3-6 story buildings and could be our version of NY's Village.

Happy New Year everyone! Conversely in this thread- along with the most exciting projects of 2020, what are everyone's predictions for 2020 through even 2025? Which projects will fail? Which will succeed? What's the next hot neighborhood? What suburb will be the next Frisco? Will Downtown get a new skyscraper? What businesses could relocate here?

Curious to hear everyone's thoughts.

hjkll wrote:Happy New Year everyone! Conversely in this thread- along with the most exciting projects of 2020, what are everyone's predictions for 2020 through even 2025? Which projects will fail? Which will succeed? What's the next hot neighborhood? What suburb will be the next Frisco? Will Downtown get a new skyscraper? What businesses could relocate here?

Curious to hear everyone's thoughts.

I think we will get another skyscraper, but not one of the caliber we want on this site. It will probably be a similar height to AMLI Fountain Place or Flora and Olive.

Projects in the Oak Lawn area seem the least exciting, that neighborhood is disappointingly pedestrian unfriendly and there is a lot of NIMBYism. I don't expect much to change over there.

And for some reason, I feel like the Westlake area will see some growth. Not just because of the relocation, but the strength of AllianceTexas and proximity to a lake.

I think I am most optimistic about the DE/East Quarter area just because it seems to be attracting an increasing level of interest and there is just a ton of opportunity on both sides of 345. Before long we will see several new cranes pulling new towers out of the ground over DE and EQ with more to follow I am sure. I most enjoy watching this sleepy east side of downtown come to life because I think it places the most unique side of Dallas on center stage, hope they don't ruin it in the process but it will continue be big magnet to other companies looking for someplace a little less typical to set up shop.

As a Richardson resident, I am excited to see the transformation of its downtown area. I think it could have the potential to join the ranks of charming downtowns like Plano, McKinney, Carrollton, etc. Not the biggest project of the year by any stretch, but exciting times in my northern burb.

I also love East Quarter and Harwood Park. That will be an enormous transformation IMO.

As a Richardson resident, I am excited to see the transformation of its downtown area. I think it could have the potential to join the ranks of charming downtowns like Plano, McKinney, Carrollton, etc. Not the biggest project of the year by any stretch, but exciting times in my northern burb.

One of the great stories of the 2010s was how urban development seemed to become much more normal anywhere, and a ton of new districts were born out of it. In 2010, Fort Worth had downtown and that was about it. The Near Southside and West 7th are now solidified and there's several more new areas on the rise. The suburbs got this two, almost every city really began embracing downtown's more and more, even my hometown of Mansfield, which has been sprawling since the 80s, turned towards downtown with new developments making it a more attractive place to live and work.

As a Richardson resident, I am excited to see the transformation of its downtown area. I think it could have the potential to join the ranks of charming downtowns like Plano, McKinney, Carrollton, etc. Not the biggest project of the year by any stretch, but exciting times in my northern burb.

It's not a single project or a single year, but I predict that Richardson is going to become a legitimate college town in the 2020 decade, which will help give it a different 'feel' than most of the cities around it. I'm talking the whole kit and kaboodle - as in building an on-campus 15k seat basketball arena for the Comets to play in. And that Campbell Road around UTD will change dramatically with it.

The_Overdog wrote:

As a Richardson resident, I am excited to see the transformation of its downtown area. I think it could have the potential to join the ranks of charming downtowns like Plano, McKinney, Carrollton, etc. Not the biggest project of the year by any stretch, but exciting times in my northern burb.

It's not a single project or a single year, but I predict that Richardson is going to become a legitimate college town in the 2020 decade, which will help give it a different 'feel' than most of the cities around it. I'm talking the whole kit and kaboodle - as in building an on-campus 15k seat basketball arena for the Comets to play in. And that Campbell Road around UTD will change dramatically with it.

Are there even plans for UTD to be D1? No D3 school should have 15K stadium for basketball. Now if you make it multi-use, it would be fine; but a hard sell nonetheless given UTD's academic and research focus. That's money better spent on other facilities and research given their mission.


I don't see Richardson changing that way. UTD's ranking would have to soar and become nationally ranked among the top 10 research Institutions to see any impact on the city culture. As it stands, I like UTD trajectory though. Definitely an underrated school. Needs better student body engagement on campus first before we even start talking city level influence

No D3 school should have 15K stadium for basketball. Now if you make it multi-use, it would be fine; but a hard sell nonetheless given UTD's academic and research focus.

There are vague plans about an athletic district for basketball and soccer, but I've not seen any renderings or a timeline.

The_Overdog wrote:

No D3 school should have 15K stadium for basketball. Now if you make it multi-use, it would be fine; but a hard sell nonetheless given UTD's academic and research focus.

There are vague plans about an athletic district for basketball and soccer, but I've not seen any renderings or a timeline.

I am also curious to see what plans there are for the art collections they have acquired. I am going to do a terrible job of remembering this, but I believe there were two significant European art collections that they got last year.

Completely random addition to the list of Exciting Projects, the deck park over 35 near the Dallas Zoo. I really think this will be a boom-or-bust project. With the amount of developable space in the immediate vicinity, though, I am leaning towards "boom".

The_Overdog wrote:

No D3 school should have 15K stadium for basketball. Now if you make it multi-use, it would be fine; but a hard sell nonetheless given UTD's academic and research focus.

There are vague plans about an athletic district for basketball and soccer, but I've not seen any renderings or a timeline.

UTD definitely has some exciting things planned per their master plan, including an expanded multi-use arena (page 18). I doubt they will ever be D1, but within the athletic program they've toyed with the idea of applying for D2 (I've finally got a birdie here!) The divisions don't have anything to do with the size of the university, but rather with the philosophy the university has towards athletics. If they were to add additional sports, they would likely target track & field and lacrosse over football.

I'm particularly excited about the DART station and development around the north end of campus. If there's going to be any type of entertainment district on or near campus, it would be in this area. Agree that Richardson is still far away from feeling anything like a college town.

I'll have to check back later to find the right thread, but, I witnessed two soil sample corings happening today at the Takeharu Miyama site (motor bank and parking lots next to his other building). I asked how deep, and, the team said they went between 140-160 feet deep.

Interesting possibilities for this location as discussed many times before here. This is across the street from Miriam's and diagonal from Savor. By KWP. Not the Miyama Parkside building.

Interesting! Talk about prime real estate! They could probably go pretty tall with this one too.

Whatever it is, I hope it adds density as well as a park amenity, whether it’s a vertical garden, giant art mural or a big screen like Discovery District. Or the whole thing could be an architectural fly trap like the Vessel in Hudson Yards.

It’s the last surface parking lot adjacent to KWP, so it should make a bold statement.

emmasensei wrote:I mean, they're everywhere. Take a drive down the southern end of Manett Street--you have to walk in the road because every lot on either side is under construction. Or any of the streets between Kirby and Carroll Avenue.

Speaking of Manett, behind ZaLot Pizza, looks like a 4-unit condo structure is going be dropped in to this vacant lot over the next year:
https://goo.gl/maps/xJM3RAtT1GvsPAkq8

Via:
https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/TABS/Search/ ... 2020022778

...and right in that same area, immediately behind the strip mall with the La Michoacana grocery store (which I love and hope never leaves) and the S&S food shop, a vacant lot is being scraped for condos.

It's interesting. That corner S&S Food Shop is the only place in the city where I've been verbally harassed by groups of men while I was walking (during the day...), so I avoid it entirely. I'm no shrinking violet, but as a youngish woman, I now wouldn't consider going into that store alone. But now, more luxury condos will be plopped RIGHT next to it. Truly, the gentrification engine in this part of Fitzhugh is relentless.

EDIT: I misspoke slightly; the new condos are actually being built one block over, immediately behind the decaying laundromat on Fitzhugh and Belmont, on the OTHER side of La Michoacana. My point about gentrification stands!

I think twice about walking over there and as you know, and I'm a large, whateverish aged man. lol

When I'm out walking, I hew to a route closer to Dalat Thai and go straight down the southern end of Manett so I can safely avoid the Laundromat/S&S Food Shop.

However, when we first moved here 2 years ago, I was told that Manett was the street you avoided going down even while in a car, lol. Now it's 30-something professional couples in Range Rovers getting their Peloton bikes delivered to their freshly constructed condos (no shade, I'm basically one of those couples).

Haha, have you ever seen that Peloton twitter hilarity?
Rabbit hole: https://twitter.com/clueheywood/status/ ... 2331217920

But, no laughs about the street vibe/experience. I can only imagine slowly and surely a lot of those storefronts in the immediate vicinity will be razed & rebuilt in some manner. Maybe not the gas station or grocer.