DTD: Field Street District - Phase I (~405FT | 33 ST + 26 ST)

[zblevinz555]

I’m not asking this sarcastically, but I don’t understand the delays, the amount of undelivered projects in Dallas, when Atlanta is throwing up a 730 footer, Austin a super tall, and I know NYC vs Dallas is apples to oranges but they have a new super tall resi seems like every time you look at their skyline. Besides the obvious economic conditions, post pandemic lag, and those variables what is it with Dallas not being able to deliver on these big projects in a decent amount of time? Is it the unelected bureaucrats in Dallas? I’m jus sick of googling “new towers planned in Dallas” and get the same puff piece articles by SB. Sorry for the long rant just pisses me off lol

From my post in another thread:

1. Austin has very quick permitting & rezoning processes. In an era of high inflation and labor shrotages, time is money, and developers ain't got time to pussyfoot around for months with Dallas' slow & dysfunctional process.

2. I understand there are height restriction in downtown Dallas that don't really affect downtown Austin due to Love Field's proximity.

3. Downtown Dallas is not the geographic nor population center of DFW (for now, Addison, Carrollton and Irving are) and it's bleeding workers/companies. Developers take note of this and become convinced the demand isn't there. Meanwhile, downtown Austin *IS* the geographic/population center of its region.

The long & short of it (and probably not something many want to hear), expectations must be adjusted for Dallas developments. If folks are looking for massive pretty-looking skyscrapers or for Dallas to become some urban Disneyland, that's not happening any time soon.

And instead of wallowing in doom & gloom about the city's future, let's focus on the positives:

The broader metro area is still exploding with growth/development, the broader metro area remains an economic juggernaut, we're doing better than most metros to build much-needed housing and Dallas' core has made great progress with urban infill the past decade.

And as much as people criticize DART and specifically the Silver Line for its drawbacks, we're doing better than most non-coastal metros (excluding Chicago obviously).

I really don’t want to bring politics (or really just certain policy changes) into this, but I feel when these projects were announced and the economic conditions and policies didn’t change, we’d have new buildings to talk about by now. I know the pandemic played a role in the slow down, but Dallas was well positioned coming out of it. A flurry of corporate relos in 2021 was going on, but the market and economy took a turn for the worse. Companies were hesitant with an uncertain economy with a potential recession looming that led to companies slashing jobs like no other. Again, hate going to politics but in a broader sense I believe that has a lot to do with it.

[eburress]

It seemed to me that when so many of these post-pandemic relocations were happening, it was Dallas' lack of leadership that kept us from capitalizing. Our previous mayor was always in the news, touting the city, seeking relocations, and so on. I have no idea what the current mayor's been doing but at first glance it seems like a whole bunch of nothing.

[Tucy]

It seemed to me that when so many of these post-pandemic relocations were happening, it was Dallas' lack of leadership that kept us from capitalizing. Our previous mayor was always in the news, touting the city, seeking relocations, and so on. I have no idea what the current mayor's been doing but at first glance it seems like a whole bunch of nothing.

And... did Dallas get a significantly larger share of the relocations under the previous mayor?

[eburress]

No, there were more corporate HQ relos to Dallas under Eric Johnson. I don't know how big most of these are, and in case anyone cares:

2023 - 1
Landsea Homes


2022 - 5
Aviatrix
ATI, Inc
Firehawk Aerospace
Allegheny Technologies
Trax


2021 - 11
5G LLC
AECOM
BackBox
Drive Shack
First Foundation Inc.
Hall Technologies
Lion Real Estate Group
Therabody
Three Whiskey
TOCA Social
Wedgewood LLC


2020 - 5
Bonchon
Buff City Soap
CBRE
Eatery Essentials
Leadr


2019 - 3
Evoque Data Center Solutions
Finical
SignEasy


2018 - 4
JSX (formerly JetSuite)
OnRobot
Smoothie King
Steward Healthcare


2017 - 3
OpTic Gaming
Primoris
HN Saltoro


2016 - 2
Jacobs Engineering
Comparex USA

[Tucy]

No, there were more corporate HQ relos to Dallas under Eric Johnson. I don't know how big most of these are, and in case anyone cares:

2023 - 1
Landsea Homes


2022 - 5
Aviatrix Not sure they ever really moved their HQ. Their own website and other internet sources suggest not.
ATI, Inc
Firehawk Aerospace Addison
Allegheny Technologies
Trax - Irving


2021 - 11
5G LLC Rockwall
AECOM
BackBox Farmers Branch
Drive Shack
First Foundation Inc.
Hall Technologies Coppell
Lion Real Estate Group
Therabody
Three Whiskey
TOCA Social
Wedgewood LLC Farmers Branch


2020 - 5
Bonchon
Buff City Soap
CBRE
Eatery Essentials
Leadr Plano


2019 - 3
Evoque Data Center Solutions Not a relocation. Just spinoff from AT&T (and HQ is in Irving)
Finical
SignEasy


2018 - 4
JSX (formerly JetSuite)
OnRobot Irving
Smoothie King Irving
Steward Healthcare


2017 - 3
OpTic Gaming
Primoris
HN Saltoro


2016 - 2
Jacobs Engineering
Comparex USA

Thanks for that list. But of the 34 listed, at least 10 are NOT in Dallas.

[zblevinz555]

https://www.planetizen.com/news/2023/08 ... ubway-plan

Just another reason for these major projects on field st not to get off the ground and corporate relo’s to balk on DTD and choose Irving/plano etc. instead. If northend, FSD, harwood 12 somehow come to fruition I could see them reconsidering, but there’s a lot that needs to go right for that to happen.

[rono3849]

The problem with DART is the ridership has declined and people aren't interested in being threatened with crime & violence as they ride the trains. The trains aren't clean anymore. It's a shame that DART has allowed itself to fall into this situation.

[Tnexster]

So its back to the basics. Too bad they didn't do more of these street cars all along. And notice, "if ridership increases."

https://www.planetizen.com/news/2023/08/125171-dallas-nixes-subway-plan

Just another reason for these major projects on field st not to get off the ground and corporate relo’s to balk on DTD and choose Irving/plano etc. instead. If northend, FSD, harwood 12 somehow come to fruition I could see them reconsidering, but there’s a lot that needs to go right for that to happen.

Shattles says the agency plans to use the funds for “new and exciting programs like our cleanliness, reliability and safety programs.” Shattles added that the agency would revisit the project “if ridership increases.”

Assistant City Manager Dr. Robert Perez said in a statement, “While the agreement between DART and the City of Dallas specifies the D2 alignment, DART and the City of Dallas have discussed reimagining D2 for other options including streetcar expansion.”

[citygeek]

DART has always been mismanaged to some degree. They never knew how to market successfully and they've never taken safety concerns of riders seriously IMO.

[Hwulivn]

Several issues with Dallas:

1) The city exists within a multi-nodal region that is so economically diverse and strong that Dallas has significant competition all around it.

2) Dallas has bled for many decades and it’s one of the several reasons why the city wound up with so many strong suburbs.

3) The city has not had, until recently, an economic development corporation focused on the city itself. Moving forward, Dallas needs a dynamic economic development vision and a serious strategy to support it that not only plays to its strengths, but sets a path toward expanding on them. My concern there is that the EDC will suffer from political distractions and/or divisions as well as a lack of strong leadership…say nothing of forward leaning vision aligned with other related variables to have significant impact.

Also, where is Dallas’ go to district that commercial and residential developers are clamoring to get into and that is nationally and internationally known and is a draw? As much as we hype the Design District, Uptown and downtown, when compared to other major U.S. cities, let alone international cities, Dallas still leaves some things to be desired. Further, many of the recreational draws that are being built in Frisco and Grand Prairie should be in Dallas, near or in Downtown. The billion dollar health sciences hub being built in Plano should be in Dallas adjacent to or within Pegasus Park (however I do understand how the Plano development came to be and why it makes sense…yet and still).

Where are the partnerships, strategies and, above all, the leadership in Dallas to point the city in such a way? We don’t have it. In fairness decent progress is being made on the development of public policies that will make Dallas a better city over time, but currently, the city is behind other cities, and even some of its own suburbs in some instances. There are about 6 construction cranes up in central Dallas. When I went to Nashville (yes, Nashville!!) and Toronto, I lost count of the cranes.

[I45Tex]

Good constructive comments. Would be happy to discuss if you care to DM me.

Deep Ellum, Exposition Park and Fair Park could be very livable. They'll be a neat, neat railroad and streetcar urban heirloom with a significant collective future, but, like other onetime past and present development hotspots, including Stemmons, Las Colinas Urban Center, Telecom Corridor, Lower McKinney, Knox Park and Legacy West, I surely don't see it rising to the level of renown nor name recognition you'd presently need to expect of a world city piece of flair (and that's really fine for it). Each of these has a level of zoom at which it's most versatile and this versatility has been plateauing at a different level of focus than we might prefer.

For better and for worse of course the spot of international gravity AND international memory is always going to be Dealey Plaza, because JFK's appearance and his apparent legacy were both as a poster man of America's vigorous youthfulness.

...but Dealey Plaza is not a viable neighborhood name, and its neighborhood name cannot outperform existing competition (West End will always be London's, but in the Greater American South it will be associated primarily with Nashville, and in North America, Toronto, so you had your bases covered in your examples).

So I think we get to start from what we have, which is the West End, but make a bustling small-scale greater adjacent neighborhood between there and the Trinity River that's not called West End but also not something cheesy like Dealey District.

[I45Tex]

Although, I bet we could come up with something funnier for the acronym.

F̴r̴i̴s̴c̴o̴
D̶A̶L̶L̶A̶S̶Sherman

[BigD5349]

I think your comments are right on the money, Hwulivn.

We have gotten in to a development cycles that is only about adding apartments and residential density. Yeah, we need that, but we need more. There are no significant draws for downtown; all of that has been recently concentrated in the suburbs. The Arts district lacks any broad based appeal, within our region or beyond. It seems like the only investment Dallas is interested in making is in a new convention center and pocket parks around downtown.

R.L. Thornton had a famous quote, "You gotta build a city. The damned things don't grow like mushrooms." There is no civic leadership which propelled the development of Dallas in the early 20th century. suburbs are doing multi hundred million dollar developments.

And yeah, I took a lot of pictures around downtown in the 1990s. I remember how pathetic it was. It's better now. But I want to see Dallas take the next big steps towards being the focal point of this huge developing region.

If Dallas wants to get bold, invest in Fair Park - the Texas bi-centennial is 13 years away, by then Fair Park should be one of the preeminent attractions in the region. If I could wave a magic wand, I'd move the jail off of the Trinity River banks and blow away Austin with a nature and recreation area all along Riverfront Blvd. Gotta be bold, don't be afraid to invest.

[MC_ScattCat]

I agree that two major assets that are either hardly used to full potential or not at all are Fair Park (could and should be world class) and the proposed Trinity Park.

Fair Park should be used more. It needs to be cleaned, restored, and upgraded badly. Dallas should really make it the crown jewel that people want to visit, and not just some place that is used for the state fair is is kind of falling apart. Arlington's Live! with hotels, bars, etc. could have been added around and upgraded Cotton Bowl. The new park and garage is a good start though.

The proposed park would be a magnet to people looking for anything outdoors in DFW not just Dallas. Places like Cedar Creek Park & Oak Cliff Nature Preserve are quite popular and a large park like the one proposed would bring large crowds using the space. Look at the pedestrian bring over the Trinity when the weather is halfway decent. It's popular to visit already and a nice park with trails shade and other places to bike and relax with those views would be a home run. The area around it would be built up fairly quickly I imagine as well.

[The_Overdog]

Counterpoint: Fair Park kinda sucks. The big dumb stadium is low quality place to actually see a game, and in the way for anything else. - the parking lots are bad all around it, and it gets in the way of navigating the fair. Al the Art Deco-faced warehouses are too far apart, the landscaping generally subpar, and ponds small, dingy, and gross. The road design plan all around is terrible and overbuilt to avoid it - some of them should run through it - those could be closed during the fair or major events. I know Dallas hates to close roads - they practically have sweepers for the minute the St Patricks Day Parade ends - but trust me, it's ok for a road to be closed for more than 2 hours when a bunch of people are around.

All those extra roads need to be bulldozed. You would then have a ton of acreage to build something actually cool, and integrate better into an actual neighborhood.

[dallaz]

Counterpoint: Fair Park kinda sucks. The big dumb stadium is low quality place to actually see a game, and in the way for anything else. - the parking lots are bad all around it, and it gets in the way of navigating the fair. Al the Art Deco-faced warehouses are too far apart, the landscaping generally subpar, and ponds small, dingy, and gross. The road design plan all around is terrible and overbuilt to avoid it - some of them should run through it - those could be closed during the fair or major events. I know Dallas hates to close roads - they practically have sweepers for the minute the St Patricks Day Parade ends - but trust me, it's ok for a road to be closed for more than 2 hours when a bunch of people are around.

All those extra roads need to be bulldozed. You would then have a ton of acreage to build something actually cool, and integrate better into an actual neighborhood.

Yep, they screwed up Fair Park intentionally... unfortunately. Race played a major roll in the South Dallas area never seeing any real revitalization. Instead of trying to fix up the South Dallas area, the city wanted to isolate Fair Park from the surrounding community. So much of what was around Fair Park was bulldozed for expanded roads and parking lots. Fair Park at one point was better integrated into South Dallas with homes and businesses directly across from the gates. Since this was pre-WW2, the major roads were narrower and more of a neighborhood feel. Second Ave use to be the main road on the southern side of Fair Park before they built Robert B Cullum Blvd (stroad) and the parking lots in the late 70s/early 80s. Now, just about the entire Fair Park campus is surrounded by parking lots and stroads. I've always thought the roads around it were overbuilt too. SMH -- It is way too wide given how much traffic that area sees on a regular basis. Even with the terrible modifications, I think Fair Park has the bones to be great once again. It's just gonna take a lot of money and vision to bring it to fruition. I think the biggest challenge is gonna be undoing the urban planning mistakes of the late 20th century and integrating the park back into the neighborhood.

This is the one the original gates a long Second Ave, that's now inside Fair Park. Homes/Businesses use to face these gates originally where the lots are.

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7755448 ... ?entry=ttu

Aerial pic from the 50s. Second Ave at the southern border of Fair Park behind the Music Hall and Band Shell

https://library.uta.edu/digitalgallery/ ... 024321.jpg

[MC_ScattCat]

Again like I said the new park and parking garage on the south side is a start to fix what was taken away. I think some of the other surface lots could be built up and stich back what was lost.

The frustrating thing about Dallas (and Texas too) is it has the potential to be world class and leaders in this country, but we keep tripping over ourselves with dumb policies or politics.

I do think Downtown and the City should focus on mixed use or residential. This development and the surface lots ringing the core really need to be incentivized to be built up rather than sit as is. I honestly hardly see most of the lots even used as parking these days. At least the new parking garages are trying to look appealing. They have retail at the bottom and the ability to add buildings on or next to them.

[The_Overdog]

Looks to me like the connectivity was pretty bad even in the 1950s. The entire SE of Fair Park, past the stadium, was basically as useless as it is today.
The NW was cut off by a rail line, where Pacific Ave is today. That was even pre-Dallas Cowboys days, so we can't even blame them, though the highway infrastructure damage surrounding Fair Park might have come later. If it went back to that, I wouldn't consider it an improvement.

[DallasUno]

R.L. Thornton had a famous quote, "You gotta build a city. The damned things don't grow like mushrooms." There is no civic leadership which propelled the development of Dallas in the early 20th century. suburbs are doing multi hundred million dollar developments.

The leadership that propelled Dallas in the early 20th century was in large part due to having a City Council where each and every seat on the council was an at-large seat. The entire city voted on every seat. The seats were filled with business and civic leaders who were “get it done” type people that wielded their power, influence and connections to make big things happen for Dallas. And unfortunately, a very far cry from the modern day council dumpster fire.

If I could wave a magic wand, I'd move the jail off of the Trinity River banks and blow away Austin with a nature and recreation area all along Riverfront Blvd. Gotta be bold, don't be afraid to invest.

There was a town lake proposal in the 1970’s that was voted on and approved. The biggest obstacle now is the red tape.

[DallasUno]

Yep, they screwed up Fair Park intentionally... unfortunately. Race played a major roll in the South Dallas area never seeing any real revitalization. Instead of trying to fix up the South Dallas area, the city wanted to isolate Fair Park from the surrounding community.

This is a fairly lazy stab at summarizing the Fair Park area and not very accurate. Fair Park’s fate and the area’s demise starts and ends with the chosen route of I-30, which then mayor, RL Thornton coincidentally, lobbied against. He was possibly the biggest proponent of Fair Park in the City’s history. More importantly, his basic reasoning for opposing I-30’s then proposed route, was that it would cut the city in half and be a barrier for Fair Park/South Dallas. All other contributing factors either emanated or snowballed from this.
In more recent times, Dallas (Laura Miller) absolutely whiffed at a golden opportunity, when Jerry Jones wanted to develop the new stadium in the Fair Park area. The stadium was going to anchor a much larger master plan which would have totally revitalized that area, incorporated DART, etc etc. I don’t think this failure was based out of spite for the area or racially motivated. It was inept leadership and stupidity amongst the City’s top brass (elected, top brass).

[I45Tex]

We also don't know that Jones' plans themselves wouldn't have ended up being the major Dallas whiff we talk about. He wanted to build, but where he did get the public money to do so, the new showplace stadium sat for years and years with no name, holding out for more sponsors' money. Despite constant event traffic, the mixed-use neighborhood that he was bringing to Arlington with it is still on the drawing boards. He didn't invest.

It took the Rangers building another billion-dollar taxpayer-fueled extravaganza nearby from 2017-2020 to even get the hotel and shopping center for Arlington. In 2023 meanwhile the Cowboys' primary neighbor is still a WalMart Supercenter.

All in all, throwing an extra billion or two dollars plus a hotel and midway at our ugly but beloved and storied old Texas Stadium would have accomplished more with less to-do about nothing. Yet if this bait and switch had transpired at Fair Park, we wouldn't even want to imagine the public discussion around it.

[IcedCowboyCoffee]

Maybe my most deeply held conspiracy belief is I don't think Jones had a single ounce of intention to build in Dallas under any circumstance. It was all to pressure Arlington into giving up the farm. If Jones hadn't got what he wanted out of Arlington he would have sooner followed Lamar Hunt up to Frisco to build on an actual farm before ever seriously considering Dallas proper.
Hell, if he had parked at Texas Stadium for just another seven or ten years the new stadium would probably be in Frisco right now.

[Dallas_Uptown]

Maybe my most deeply held conspiracy belief is I don't think Jones had a single ounce of intention to build in Dallas under any circumstance. It was all to pressure Arlington into giving up the farm. If Jones hadn't got what he wanted out of Arlington he would have sooner followed Lamar Hunt up to Frisco to build on an actual farm before ever seriously considering Dallas proper.
Hell, if he had parked at Texas Stadium for just another seven or ten years the new stadium would probably be in Frisco right now.

Truth.

[The_Overdog]

I can't imagine a new stadium at Fair Park being an improvement either. The Stadium in Arlington is a much better place inside to watch a game, but the exterior? Neighborhood integration? Nah. It's terrible.

[lakewoodhobo]

In more recent times, Dallas (Laura Miller) absolutely whiffed at a golden opportunity, when Jerry Jones wanted to develop the new stadium in the Fair Park area. The stadium was going to anchor a much larger master plan which would have totally revitalized that area, incorporated DART, etc etc. I don’t think this failure was based out of spite for the area or racially motivated. It was inept leadership and stupidity amongst the City’s top brass (elected, top brass).

I'll never forget the time I was riding DART and overheard a conversation where someone said regarding the Cowboys moving to Fair Park, "...and Laura Miller denied Jerry Jones THREE times!"

It was the most biblical Dallas thing ever.

[rono3849]

Laura Miller's legacy to Dallas was blocking the return of the Cowboys to their home city, thwarting developments across Dallas, & trying to stop new ideas/developments to make Dallas move forward. She is the ultimate NIMBY.

[mhainli]

Laura Miller's legacy to Dallas was blocking the return of the Cowboys to their home city, thwarting developments across Dallas, & trying to stop new ideas/developments to make Dallas move forward. She is the ultimate NIMBY.

Yes, Laura Miller, also known as “Madam No” and the “best mayor of Dallas that Arlington ever had”, was the worst possible negotiator for Dallas. Council members said as much in retrospect, wishing they had stepped in, etc. Had Leppert or Kirk been mayor at the time the Cowboys would be in Dallas.

However, let us not forget that Jones approached Dallas County first and the proposed stadium site was near the Cedars. Jones understandably wanted the vote to be the 2004 general election in a presidential voting year. At least 2 of the County Commissioner’s feared that the large stadium voter turnout would hurt their chances in the election so negotiations went nowhere. (Side note: the 2 commissioners were voted out in 2006 anyway). Afterward the city of Dallas/Miller took over with Miller suggesting a Fair Park site with the city providing the land and Cowboys covering everything else. No go…

Crazy times. The Cowboys Stadium needed a strong Dallas political champion at the County or City level but there was none back in 2004..

[BigD5349]

Absolutely true. I was working with a new project for Fair Park that was nearly funded because the Cowboys were coming there. The investment funding completely evaporated as soon as they bolted for Arlington.To name names, Laura Miller, Margaret Keliher and Pete Sessions were all in the mix there.

Laura Miller's legacy to Dallas was blocking the return of the Cowboys to their home city, thwarting developments across Dallas, & trying to stop new ideas/developments to make Dallas move forward. She is the ultimate NIMBY.

Yes, Laura Miller, also known as “Madam No” and the “best mayor of Dallas that Arlington ever had”, was the worst possible negotiator for Dallas. Council members said as much in retrospect, wishing they had stepped in, etc. Had Leppert or Kirk been mayor at the time the Cowboys would be in Dallas.

However, let us not forget that Jones approached Dallas County first and the proposed stadium site was near the Cedars. Jones understandably wanted the vote to be the 2004 general election in a presidential voting year. At least 2 of the County Commissioner’s feared that the large stadium voter turnout would hurt their chances in the election so negotiations went nowhere. (Side note: the 2 commissioners were voted out in 2006 anyway). Afterward the city of Dallas/Miller took over with Miller suggesting a Fair Park site with the city providing the land and Cowboys covering everything else. No go…

Crazy times. The Cowboys Stadium needed a strong Dallas political champion at the County or City level but there was none back in 2004..

[tamtagon]

I still get pissed off the cowboys didn't come back home to Fair Park

[vman]

I can't imagine a new stadium at Fair Park being an improvement either. The Stadium in Arlington is a much better place inside to watch a game, but the exterior? Neighborhood integration? Nah. It's terrible.

When you look at the "new" stadiums built around the country in the last couple of decades, the stadium in Arlington is the least attractive one. I've always found it hideous.

[rickbansal]

I can't imagine a new stadium at Fair Park being an improvement either. The Stadium in Arlington is a much better place inside to watch a game, but the exterior? Neighborhood integration? Nah. It's terrible.

When you look at the "new" stadiums built around the country in the last couple of decades, the stadium in Arlington is the least attractive one. I've always found it hideous.

Completely disagree with you my friend.

[I45Tex]

Of the following in the past quarter-century I think ours is the blandest or most generically creative but probably the least ugly. Others go more CREATIVE but it's not as successfully done. Also may I add that no league needs this many new arenas?

(Charlotte 1996
DC 1997
Baltimore 1998
Tampa 1998)

Browns 1999 Cleveland
Nissan 1999 Nashville
Paul Brown / Paycor 2000 Cincinnati
Heinz / Acrisure 2001 Pittsburgh
Invesco / Empower 2001 Denver
Gillette 2002 Boston
Qwest-CenturyLink-Lumen 2002 Seattle
Reliant-NRG 2002 Houston
Lincoln Financial 2003 Philadelphia
State Farm 2006 Phoenix
(Arlington 2009)
Metlife 2010 New Jersey
Levi's 2014 Santa Clara
USBank 2016 Minneapolis
Mercedes-Benz 2017 Atlanta
Allegiant 2020 Las Vegas
SoFi 2020 Los Angeles

[Tnexster]

Personally, the last two on that list are the most attractive and innovative. Course they are also the most recent so they have the benefit of seeing what else is out there and building something better. I don't think AT&T is hideous and it does have some great features but it isn't my favorite either. My biggest complaint about the stadium is the orientation which allows the setting sun to come through those giant glass doors which make is difficult to see if you are charging towards the west side end zone. Why did they do that?

[vman]

I can't imagine a new stadium at Fair Park being an improvement either. The Stadium in Arlington is a much better place inside to watch a game, but the exterior? Neighborhood integration? Nah. It's terrible.

When you look at the "new" stadiums built around the country in the last couple of decades, the stadium in Arlington is the least attractive one. I've always found it hideous.

Completely disagree with you my friend.

Since taste is subjective and I don't argue about subjective things...that's fine with me. I will still always say that stadium resembles a giant silver cockroach and looks like it was designed by a UFO-obsessed 10 year old child.

[MC_ScattCat]

As a Chiefs fan I feel At&T is similar in that the stadium is nice, but it's in a sea of parking lots. At least At&T has some stuff near it though.

[rickbansal]

As a Chiefs fan I feel At&T is similar in that the stadium is nice, but it's in a sea of parking lots. At least At&T has some stuff near it though.

I agree the location of the stadium leaves much to be desired. So wish that Dallas had better leadership at that time. Can you imagine the impact of the stadium if it had been constructed on the south side of the Trinity River??

[The_Overdog]

I think the stadium's location in Arlington sucks. You can barely even see it from the freeway, which is oddly below grade there. To that extent, who even cares what the outside looks like, I guess unless you are are a regular Randoll Mills street driver.

[mhainli]

Laura Miller's legacy to Dallas was blocking the return of the Cowboys to their home city, thwarting developments across Dallas, & trying to stop new ideas/developments to make Dallas move forward. She is the ultimate NIMBY.

Yes, Laura Miller, also known as “Madam No” and the “best mayor of Dallas that Arlington ever had”, was the worst possible negotiator for Dallas. Council members said as much in retrospect, wishing they had stepped in, etc. Had Leppert or Kirk been mayor at the time the Cowboys would be in Dallas.

However, let us not forget that Jones approached Dallas County first and the proposed stadium site was near the Cedars. Jones understandably wanted the vote to be the 2004 general election in a presidential voting year. At least 2 of the County Commissioner’s feared that the large stadium voter turnout would hurt their chances in the election so negotiations went nowhere. (Side note: the 2 commissioners were voted out in 2006 anyway). Afterward the city of Dallas/Miller took over with Miller suggesting a Fair Park site with the city providing the land and Cowboys covering everything else. No go…

Crazy times. The Cowboys Stadium needed a strong Dallas political champion at the County or City level but there was none back in 2004..

Absolutely true. I was working with a new project for Fair Park that was nearly funded because the Cowboys were coming there. The investment funding completely evaporated as soon as they bolted for Arlington.To name names, Laura Miller, Margaret Keliher and Pete Sessions were all in the mix there.

Yes, when it became apparent that the stadium would be in Arlington and not Dallas, the DMN editorial board put the lion’s share of the blame on Laura Miller and Margaret Kelliher.

[vman]

I think the stadium's location in Arlington sucks. You can barely even see it from the freeway, which is oddly below grade there. To that extent, who even cares what the outside looks like, I guess unless you are are a regular Randoll Mills street driver.

I really believe if Jerry Jones could have a do-over and would've had a tiny insight into the future back in 2004...the stadium would be in Frisco.

[rickbansal]

I think the stadium's location in Arlington sucks. You can barely even see it from the freeway, which is oddly below grade there. To that extent, who even cares what the outside looks like, I guess unless you are are a regular Randoll Mills street driver.

I really believe if Jerry Jones could have a do-over and would've had a tiny insight into the future back in 2004...the stadium would be in Frisco.

You're likely spot on with this assessment; however, I'm glad it's not as I'm a Frisco resident and have seen the population go from 5K to nearly 250K. Traffic is already bad enough....can't imagine what it would be like on game day

[The_Overdog]

the stadium would be in Frisco.

I think Frisco would have turned him down, or not offered a competitive deal. First, generally football stadiums are only used a few times a year, nowhere near enough for the subsidies offered. Frisco government is not dumb. Second, they got a better deal with The Star, even though it's one of the worst 'mixed use' blocks in DFW. The team is there on a 'daily' basis during the season, the indoor stadium sized appropriately and able to be used by the high school teams, and no dramatic traffic as it's not even built adjacent to a major freeway, just your normal (oversized) collector streets.

[vman]

the stadium would be in Frisco.

, even though it's one of the worst 'mixed use' blocks in DFW.

I work down the street from The Star, and you are so right about that. The design is horrible.

[Cbdallas]

Funny that Arlington is where it went and the other site consensus seems to be Frisco both places without mass transit in the metro.

[IcedCowboyCoffee]

Got a nice chuckle out of the title update. This project aint really happening, so ya know, whatever. Anyone got plans for the labor day weekend? It's starting to finally feel nice outside in the mornings again.

Funny that Arlington is where it went and the other site consensus seems to be Frisco both places without mass transit in the metro.

My other conspiracy belief that I don't actually believe--but wouldn't be surprised by if it were true--is that Arlington probably drags its feet so much on public transit because they see more value in collecting as much in parking fees at their stadiums as they possibly can. Why let someone pay only $2 or $3 bucks to reach AT&T stadium when you can get $40+ instead. Greed drives a lot of things, unfortunately.

Texrail is out here getting 55,000 riders a month. Just assuming every one of those riders bought the most expensive local day pass available ($5), that's $275,000 in a month at most.

There's 12,000 parking spots at AT&T stadium.
I think the cheapest possible parking for the Taylor Swift concert was $40 if you were lucky? (I think a lot of people ended up paying $120), but just for the sake of this exercise, assume every spot was sold and they were sold for $40 each, that's $480,000 just for one night, and it was a three night sold out concert... So, minimum $1.5 million in just that weekend---five months worth of what the Texrail pulled in. Even if you have to split it with whoever is attracting folks there that's still a wild amount of money.

People would still pay to park if there were a public transit option of course, but the more competitive the transit is the less you can get away with gauging people for parking. If suddenly you need to start charging "only" $30 instead of $40, that's $360,000 less for that weekend--a difference larger than what Texrail's pulling in.
It's also cheaper to maintain a parking lot than a fleet of trains or buses.

But I'm just making stuff up here and did all this flawed napkin math just this second. I'm bored and kind of sleepy.
I don't actually think this is why they drag their feet on public transit, and yet, I wouldn't be shocked.

I do think if it got put on the ballot again, folks there might finally vote on creating a transit authority for the city.
The last time the city got to vote on that was in 2002. You wanna talk about low voter turnout, look at this stat:

arlington.JPG

10,500 against votes in a 350,000 pop city brought it down. That was only 3% of the city's population!

[Addison]

Ok, now who's the Messy Tessy that came up with the new thread title (it's not wrong)?

"DTD: BoredThread-Frisco/Traffic/FairPark/ATTStadium/Policy/CorpRelocations/AnythingButNotTallEnoughFieldStreetDistrict"

[CTroyMathis]

I had some great french onion soup today. I'd love to say I went somewhere to get it, but, instead I just made that from scratch while at work haha. It was a solid win. I love lamp. Looking for my trident. I think it's on the other side of Olive Street.

[tamtagon]

You misplaced your trident? Isn't there a rule against that? You make etouffee?

[I45Tex]

FSD has asked the FAA to permit a 479' tower crane pt 2, from 04/01/2024 to 08/01/2027, and a 517' tower crane pt 3, with that same work schedule. I didn't look around for a pt 1, perhaps already determined. The application described these both as 18 month work schedules, so I also don't know what they mean by that.

[Hannibal Lecter]

My other conspiracy belief that I don't actually believe--but wouldn't be surprised by if it were true--is that Arlington probably drags its feet so much on public transit because they see more value in collecting as much in parking fees at their stadiums as they possibly can. Why let someone pay only $2 or $3 bucks to reach AT&T stadium when you can get $40+ instead. Greed drives a lot of things, unfortunately.

My concubine used to own a car lot on the periphery of the stadium. She says she made more money -- a lot more -- from event parking than from selling cars.

[I45Tex]

Would she like to buy an underground bridge? I know a guy got a nice second hand D2