Deep Ellum 1.0

[cowboyeagle05]

Reel just upgraded their existing building and that got incentives to do it so I wonder why they are moving if not getting some deal for the property.

[Matt777]

This weekend was my first personal experience with the rideshare dropoff locations in Deep Ellum. They have some bugs to work out. The one on Pryor Street tries to route rideshare vehicles north onto it even though it's a one way south only street. There were a lot of police officers there enforcing it and not letting ubers get into the designated pickup area..... it seemed so wasteful to go through all this trouble to create the pickup zones and then have to pay cops to wave traffic away from the zones....

[dd_dweller]

Whats going on with the lots around exposition and main? The one random yellow house building and the old tattoo shop are fenced up.

[lakewoodhobo]

The eastern sides of Malcolm X and Commerce have always been an unfortunate dead zone with its service stations and parking lots that don't really fit with the rest of Deep Ellum.

Fortunately it looks like we're getting a popular fried chicken place on the SE corner and add some much needed life to this part of the intersection: 

Gus's World Famous Fried Chicken is coming to Dallas' Deep Ellum
http://dallas.culturemap.com/news/resta ... eep-ellum/

[exelone31]

The eastern sides of Malcolm X and Commerce have always been an unfortunate dead zone with its service stations and parking lots that don't really fit with the rest of Deep Ellum.

Fortunately it looks like we're getting a popular fried chicken place on the SE corner and add some much needed life to this part of the intersection: 

Gus's World Famous Fried Chicken is coming to Dallas' Deep Ellum
http://dallas.culturemap.com/news/resta ... eep-ellum/

Awesome news! Flea Style is also working on a restaurant a bit further down Commerce, so this corner of Deep Ellum will no doubt be bustling soon. Plus, isn't most of the new residential that is being built focused in this area?

[lakewoodhobo]

Whats going on with the lots around exposition and main? The one random yellow house building and the old tattoo shop are fenced up.

Bummer.

A New 7-Eleven (Complete With Gas Pumps And All) Will Open In Deep Ellum’s Eastern Edge In 2020, Replacing A Popular Instagram Photo Shoot Destination.
https://www.centraltrack.com/deep-ellum ... -7-eleven/

[mcrdal15]

Whats going on with the lots around exposition and main? The one random yellow house building and the old tattoo shop are fenced up.

Bummer.

A New 7-Eleven (Complete With Gas Pumps And All) Will Open In Deep Ellum’s Eastern Edge In 2020, Replacing A Popular Instagram Photo Shoot Destination.
https://www.centraltrack.com/deep-ellum ... -7-eleven/

Absolutely disgusting

[Hannibal Lecter]

Absolutely disgusting

Bummer

Let me guess...neither of you actually live or work in Deep Ellum. Right?

[Thymant]

Whats going on with the lots around exposition and main? The one random yellow house building and the old tattoo shop are fenced up.

Bummer.

A New 7-Eleven (Complete With Gas Pumps And All) Will Open In Deep Ellum’s Eastern Edge In 2020, Replacing A Popular Instagram Photo Shoot Destination.
https://www.centraltrack.com/deep-ellum ... -7-eleven/

I used to frequent this spot for photos and oddly enough I actually don't mind the new 7-11 as long as it is one of there modern designed ones (like the new concept in West Dallas at Sylvan 30) and as long as it complements the area its in. Yeah the spot is cool but it's really not that big of a draw and that area of deep Ellum is fairly dormant and near where many of the lofts and apartments are located. So it will be useful.

[cowboyeagle05]

They confirmed in the article linked above that it will not be anything more than the old fashioned 7/11 with gas pumps. No urban store concept or anything.

[TNWE]

Absolutely disgusting

Bummer

Let me guess...neither of you actually live or work in Deep Ellum. Right?

Hey! You're not allowed to disagree with anything the "Urbanists" say! This is an Urban Development forum!

[tamtagon]

Losing a popular site is too bad, but the new 7-11 is a sure sign of a growing neighborhood, one that needs more of the mundane conveniences. Something will replace the Orange House.

This is more Expo Park than Deep Ellum, though, right?

[mdg109]

It's only been a yellow house for a couple years. I didn't think it was that beloved of a site. Before that, I think it was used as a parking lot. Sure, a smaller scale, mixed-use development would've been great. Interestingly though, wasn't Bowls and Tacos across the street a former gas station like way back in the day (1940s/50s?).

[Hannibal Lecter]

This is more Expo Park than Deep Ellum, though, right?

General consensus is that Deep Ellum in north of 30 and the Exposition Park neighborhood is south of 30, even though the actual Exposition Park park is north of 30 (and just one block south of this property).

[Hannibal Lecter]

It's only been a yellow house for a couple years. I didn't think it was that beloved of a site. Before that, I think it was used as a parking lot. Sure, a smaller scale, mixed-use development would've been great. Interestingly though, wasn't Bowls and Tacos across the street a former gas station like way back in the day (1940s/50s?).

It was previously a used car lot. B&T used to be a Gulf station.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

They should paint the 7-11 yellow.

[DPatel304]

[quote]The Deep Ellum Foundation Has Officially Green-Lit Plans To Turn Crowdus Street Into A Pedestrian Plaza By 2023 — But Who Exactly Asked For That?


[quote]
https://www.centraltrack.com/deep-ellum ... rian-park/

This sounds like a fantastic idea, and I could see it being a big success, which will hopefully lead to other similar projects. Unfortunately it'll be a few years before this is completed, but happy it is happening regardless.

[Hannibal Lecter]

Personally I'm indifferent to this, but there is a lot of local opposition. When it was tried before it quickly became a homeless campground. Radiator Alley is getting pretty bad, and it's private property property with security. A public area where you can't just run people off will be far worse.

One issue not mentioned is that they can't completely close the street south of Main. It's the only access to the parking lot and dumpsters for a couple businesses, including Uncle Uber's and the former IBK/soon to be On Call space.

[lakewoodhobo]

This seems like a no-brainer if it was tested before and the world didn't end. It's actually been tested downtown for much longer (with way more homeless people) since Stone Place is the exact same length connecting Elm and Main.

By the time it opens in 2023, Deep Ellum may not be the superheated bar destination it is today but people will still live nearby and need places to gather.

[muncien]

Great to hear... There are at least a handful of other similar streets that could do the same today, and a dozen that should get it in the next decade. One of the best deterrents of crime is getting more places for the common folk to gather and make their presence known in their community. That said, you can't do a whole bunch of these as once as it takes time to establish a presence and the last think you want is a bunch of empty, open streets.
But this is a great step.

[Hannibal Lecter]

One of the best deterrents of crime is getting more places for the common folk to gather and make their presence known in their community.

"Common folk" won't gather where they're harassed for money every 20 feet. Common folk won't sit and relax in a seat soaked in urine because the last occupant was too stoned or lazy to stand up. Or where some old women stops five feet away and vomits in front of them (happened to me three days ago outside Radiator Ally). Common folk won't visit a neighborhood with random gunfire (the last two weekends, including one block away last Saturday).

I know the theory is that if you get enough "good" folks then the vagrants and criminals will go somewhere else. Well, that hasn't worked here. When you have more prey you get more predators, not less.

[muncien]

One of the best deterrents of crime is getting more places for the common folk to gather and make their presence known in their community.

"Common folk" won't gather where they're harassed for money every 20 feet. Common folk won't sit and relax in a seat soaked in urine because the last occupant was too stoned or lazy to stand up. Or where some old women stops five feet away and vomits in front of them (happened to me three days ago outside Radiator Ally). Common folk won't visit a neighborhood with random gunfire (the last two weekends, including one block away last Saturday).

I know the theory is that if you get enough "good" folks then the vagrants and criminals will go somewhere else. Well, that hasn't worked here. When you have more prey you get more predators, not less.

There is a transition period, that's for sure. It's not that the 'predators' weren't there before the 'prey', but that the addition of new prey makes the issue more apparent. That said, the visibility also forces action (at least, it should), and the result is that potential perpetrators will eventually move on to softer targets.
There are numerous examples of where this has worked, or is currently in the process of working. Uptown, Trinity Groves, Oak Lawn, Bishop Arts, etc.
Crime was once common, but ignored > More People move in > Crime becomes apparent and obvious > Actions to combat crime are enacted (with various degrees of success) > Crime moves on to another place

[cowboyeagle05]

Build more residential in Deep Ellum and you will see more solutions to both the crime, homeless and bar overcrowding issue. Residential including both ownership and rental units apply pressure to see less Entertainment District and more neighborhood-oriented changes like public plazas, playgrounds, etc and the desire to keep them cleaner and secure. Deep Ellum in its previous iterations did not see as much residential as we have seen in this chapter. I am not advocating tearing down the historic center just that residential will help moderate the over bar problem over time. Even renters in Uptown got fed up with some of the craziness and started complaining and applying pressure to representatives to apply pressure to landowners and developers.

[willyk]

Was in DE on Saturday night—lots of people but very few of the bars were full. I am wondering if we have reached the saturation point for bars, such that the new spaces will need to seek other types of tenants to succeed.

[Hannibal Lecter]

I don't know if you guys are wearing rose-colored glasses, or just don't know the history of this area and the city. The city's solution has always been the same when Deep Ellum starts making the news: drive off the folks making the complaints.

I remember back circa 2003 when the police announced their big show of force to address crime in the neighborhood. Sure enough that weekend there were multiple cop cars blocking lanes on Commerce in front of my building -- writing parking tickets. Ten minutes before midnight, when parking became free.

Fast forward to 2019. Last Saturday I saw two Parking Enforcement officers out writing parking tickets instead of the usual one. History repeats itself. Of course you don't ever see them going after the fake parking lot attendants that take money from folks who later come back to find their cars towed or booted. You know those visitors will be coming back to DE real soon.

The cops say they don't know anything about the gunfire Saturday night, despite the videos on the Internet, cartridges lying around and the holes in at least one building http://www.fox4news.com/news/crowds-sca ... rday-night. But hey, they're held a press conference to publicize how they wrote 11 tickets for scooters on the sidewalks this week https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas- ... ent-riders.

On the bright side, I've saved thousands of dollars in property taxes over the past 15 years. When I protested my valuation back in the early 2000's when this stuff was happening the DCAD appraiser told me about how the Dallas police had harassed her family and arrested her teenage brother leaving a restaurant after Thanksgiving dinner. She then reduced my valuation to my low ball value. That one incident saved me $10-15,000 in property taxes.

[ContriveDallasite]

On the bright side, I've saved thousands of dollars in property taxes over the past 15 years. When I protested my valuation back in the early 2000's when this stuff was happening the DCAD appraiser told me about how the Dallas police had harassed her family and arrested her teenage brother leaving a restaurant after Thanksgiving dinner. She then reduced my valuation to my low ball value. That one incident saved me $10-15,000 in property taxes.

You can't make this shit up.... But this time, Deep Ellum is changing for a more serious note. When was the last time we have seen this amount of development anywhere this close to Fair Park?

[tamtagon]

On the bright side, I've saved thousands of dollars in property taxes over the past 15 years. When I protested my valuation back in the early 2000's when this stuff was happening the DCAD appraiser told me about how the Dallas police had harassed her family and arrested her teenage brother leaving a restaurant after Thanksgiving dinner. She then reduced my valuation to my low ball value. That one incident saved me $10-15,000 in property taxes.

You can't make this shit up.... But this time, Deep Ellum is changing for a more serious note. When was the last time we have seen this amount of development anywhere this close to Fair Park?

Not in my lifetime.

This time around, I don't think ignorant or bigoted or inept or crony city resource management will actually have a wide-open opportunity to screw up the entertainment district. There's simply too much money on the table for a collective of single-minded power brokers to squelch residents, quality of lifers, tourism boosters and concerned business groups.

Deep Ellum is certainly going to be managed into something different that it's ever been, but we can look for the historic core of old buildings to get preserved into a French Quarter/Beale Street/6th Street overwhelmingly pedestrian oriented cavalcade of nightlife destinations, generally affordable to moderately priced trendy dinner and ultra-high volume lunch venues.

This is where the party will happen and will roll contiguously roughly along the Elm-Main-Commerce corridor from the CBD to Esposition to Fair Park, everything else in Old East Dallas will be treated to a couple generations of redevelopment on the same scale as what's been happening in Uptown for nearly two generations.

Old East Dallas has some outstanding head-starts in this deal: the medical industry employment center and the existing nightlife destination. With such strong appealing motivators in the area, the city has the luxury to direct the tone of new development rather than hold an open house with welcome and parting gifts to anyone interested. Turning over management of Fair Park to industry experts will prove to be one of the best decisions during the first half of this century for Dallas.

[cowboyeagle05]

Deep Ellum evolves bit by bit each time it hits a stride and fall. Last time we didn't have hundreds of nearby apartments being built changing the makeup of the neighborhood. Also this time the current landowners have been putting effort into not just bars. The past two big swings in Deep Ellum's history it was night clubs and only bars with very few restaurants. This time it def still has bars but also has more restaurant bars and spaces being leased to retailers. The problem is Deep Ellum is on the bleeding edge of the demographics for retail and daytime restaurants. It's not surrounded like Uptown with upward moving neighborhoods. Deep Ellum has the northern edge of South Dallas, the CBD which is not bumping except during the 9 to 5, and old east Dallas as its northern neighbor. A Subway or 7/11 sure but its always made sense to be an entertainment district because of its position to rooftops that dictate success in leasing.

[Jbarn]

Another fight and shooting in Deep Ellum this past weekend. Seems to be some sort of incident down there every weekend now according to the local news. Unfortunately, for most folks, perception is reality, and if it is perceived as a dangerous place, folks will stop going. They better get a handle on this, or Deep Ellum is done.

[cowboyeagle05]

I find the difference between various entertainment bar neighborhoods interesting for sure. The gaybourhood has a mindless drunk parade at 2 am every weekend of some sort but rarely fighting. Mind you the number of bars is smaller instead they have bigger bars/nightclubs. You have to give the Cedar Springs Rd gay bar's credit they have been serving till 2 am for decades and rarely make the news while places like Uptown get out of control, fade and the rowdy crowd moves to the next neighborhood, in this case, Deep Ellum. The rowdy Deep Ellum we see now is still different than the last iteration but still, we are in a place where too much police action will scare off all customers but letting it self manage is also not an option.

Lower Greenville solved it by scaring off the bad players using street construction and city ordinance babysitting of serving after midnight operations. Plus good surrounding demographics.

Deep Ellum is waiting on good demographics to encircle its historic streets, has many more daytime businesses that are worth visiting this time but the late-night weekend crowd is the problem.

Bishop Arts seemed to never get too bar focused so it never developed a big nightlife impact.

6th street has been a crazy part of Austin for late nights for years but it seems like they can handle it as well.

[homeworld1031tx]

6th street has been a crazy part of Austin for late nights for years but it seems like they can handle it as well.

There are major fights every weekend on 6th street, but they are always just drunken brawls that are broken up by the mounted police (lol.) and it's almost part of the party vibe.

If Deep Ellum is actually experiencing violent crime on a weekly basis, especially ones involving gunfire, then we have a different and bigger problem.

[DPatel304]

^^ I've been thinking the same thing, and wondering how the gayborhood has managed to maintain a pretty decent party scene without the crime. I know a year or two ago, there was a time where a few people were getting beaten up late at night in Oak Lawn, but there were never any shootings (from what I re-call) and they seemed to have gotten a handle on what's going on there.

I do think things are going to change for the worse on 6th street and Downtown Austin in general, unfortunately. I think the lack of crime in the past was simply due to the fact that it was a smaller city comprised of a lot of college students, but the insane growth they are seeing as turned them into more of a bigger city, which will lead to big city problems. I've seen numerous stories this year about shootings in Downtown Austin as well, unfortunately.

I don't think location really matters when it comes to this type of crime. It just seems like the people committing these crimes will go where they think they can get away with it. Deep Ellum had a solid couple of years where there was a huge party going on every weekend and little to no crime, but it seemed like this year once you heard about one or two incidents, then the floodgates opened and it attracted more and more crime to the area. The same goes for Uptown as well. Uptown had a big party scene for 5+ years, but only in the last year or so did crime become a real problem, and now it appears to be a regular occurance here.

[DPatel304]

There are major fights every weekend on 6th street, but they are always just drunken brawls that are broken up by the mounted police (lol.) and it's almost part of the party vibe.

If Deep Ellum is actually experiencing violent crime on a weekly basis, especially ones involving gunfire, then we have a different and bigger problem.

Sunday, July 7th: Two in hospital after shooting on East Sixth Street
https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/two-in ... xth-street

Sunday, March 17th: Shooting In Austin Near SXSW Leaves at Least One Person Injured, Police Confirm
https://deadline.com/2019/03/shooting-a ... 202577063/

Sunday, August 11th: Police hunt for suspects, Cadillac after 1 dead, 2 hurt in shooting outside north Austin bar
https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/1-dead- ... ot-sunday/

These are not necessarily on 6th, just in the general Downtown area, and it doesn't seem like it's as bad as Deep Ellum at this point in time, but I have definitely noticed more violent crime in Ausitn as well.

[Warrior2015]

There are major fights every weekend on 6th street, but they are always just drunken brawls that are broken up by the mounted police (lol.) and it's almost part of the party vibe.

If Deep Ellum is actually experiencing violent crime on a weekly basis, especially ones involving gunfire, then we have a different and bigger problem.

Sunday, July 7th: Two in hospital after shooting on East Sixth Street
https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/two-in ... xth-street

Sunday, March 17th: Shooting In Austin Near SXSW Leaves at Least One Person Injured, Police Confirm
https://deadline.com/2019/03/shooting-a ... 202577063/

Sunday, August 11th: Police hunt for suspects, Cadillac after 1 dead, 2 hurt in shooting outside north Austin bar
https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/1-dead- ... ot-sunday/

These are not necessarily on 6th, just in the general Downtown area, and it doesn't seem like it's as bad as Deep Ellum at this point in time, but I have definitely noticed more violent crime in Ausitn as well.

Austin has been experiencing lots of violent crime lately. The other night 5 people were shot outside a bar after a fight in north austin and someone was stabbed downtown austin that same night. Austin news is starting to sound more like dallas everyday

[DPatel304]

Austin has been experiencing lots of violent crime lately. The other night 5 people were shot outside a bar after a fight in north austin and someone was stabbed downtown austin that same night. Austin news is starting to sound more like dallas everyday

How unfortunate, but this doesn't surprise me. It's no longer a small city, so, with growth comes unfortunate side effects like these. Hopefully both cities can get things under control sooner, rather than later.

I'd really like to see the nightlife in Deep Ellum stick this time around, rather than for us to go through yet another nightlife cycle.

[DPatel304]

Glitzy Uptown Dallas bar moves to where the action is: Deep Ellum
Deep Ellum literally gets a piece of Uptown Dallas, with the looming migration of Citizen Dallas, a glossy bar on Fairmount that's relocating to a vintage building at 2511 Swiss Ave., right by the Deep Ellum DART Rail station.

http://dallas.culturemap.com/news/resta ... r-vidorra/

These times they are a-changing. It seems we've hit a tipping point, and now I expect to see the nightlife leave fairly quickly from Uptown. I'm curious to see how many Uptown bars will still remain by the end of this year.

[Tucy]

There are major fights every weekend on 6th street, but they are always just drunken brawls that are broken up by the mounted police (lol.) and it's almost part of the party vibe.

If Deep Ellum is actually experiencing violent crime on a weekly basis, especially ones involving gunfire, then we have a different and bigger problem.

Sunday, July 7th: Two in hospital after shooting on East Sixth Street
https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/two-in ... xth-street

Sunday, March 17th: Shooting In Austin Near SXSW Leaves at Least One Person Injured, Police Confirm
https://deadline.com/2019/03/shooting-a ... 202577063/

Sunday, August 11th: Police hunt for suspects, Cadillac after 1 dead, 2 hurt in shooting outside north Austin bar
https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/1-dead- ... ot-sunday/

These are not necessarily on 6th, just in the general Downtown area, and it doesn't seem like it's as bad as Deep Ellum at this point in time, but I have definitely noticed more violent crime in Ausitn as well.

So... three incidents this year? And FWIW, the third incident, in "north Austin" was at 10205 N. Lamar Boulevard, not in the general downtown Austin area by any stretch.

[DPatel304]

So... three incidents this year? And FWIW, the third incident, in "north Austin" was at 10205 N. Lamar Boulevard, not in the general downtown Austin area by any stretch.

AT LEAST three incidents this year. Obviously I'm not claiming to have researched any and all incidents for 2019 in the Downtown Austin area, just pointing out that (unfortunately) crime appears to be on the uptick in Austin as well. At least that has been my perception. I'm also not claiming it is better or worse than what we're seeing in Uptown/Deep Ellum, as I don't really have all the statistics.

But yes, you're right, I didn't quite look at the articles in depth, so I do see now that the one on North Lamar was very far north of Downtown, so I should not have included that one.

[Hannibal Lecter]

Another fight and shooting in Deep Ellum this past weekend. Seems to be some sort of incident down there every weekend now according to the local news. Unfortunately, for most folks, perception is reality, and if it is perceived as a dangerous place, folks will stop going. They better get a handle on this, or Deep Ellum is done.

Actually two shootings Saturday night. The one on Elm Street got lots of press, but for some reason the one on Main Street didn't. We were less than 100 feet away from the Main Street shooting, walking directly towards it. 60-90 seconds later and we would have been in the middle of it.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... ater&ifg=1

[lakewoodhobo]

Wait Till You See What Deep Ellum’s Biggest Land Owner Has Planned For The Facade Of Its 17-Story Residential Tower, The Case Building
https://www.centraltrack.com/and-you-th ... were-nuts/

I give them points for wanting to do something big and different, but what is the lifespan on a mural like this? Will a future owner down the line just paint over it like Trammel Crow did to the Phoenix apartments on Mockingbird?

[homeworld1031tx]

Jeez, can we not? The building looks fantastic just the way it is. No need to try this hard to make it 'fit in' with the deep ellum aesthetic (which hasn't existed in an original form for at least 5 years now...)

[vman]

Considering Dallas' block after block of bland box style apartments, I give them points for doing something different. Look at the Phoenix Apartments on Mockingbird now after the mural was removed...a bland, beige mess.

[Kelley USA]

It's all about trying to attract residents... This will probably explain some of it:

MOVE IN SPECIALS: Up to 2 months free! Zero Administrative Fee and ½ off Security Deposit on ALL floor plans.

I have a friend that lives in this building and he says it is DEAD! I know for quite awhile this particular building hovered around 50% occupancy. Not sure where it stands at this particular moment though.

[cowboyeagle05]

That's a standard special partially since traffic is now slowing down with the start of school fewer people are shopping but are moving into deals they have already signed. We are coming to the end of a busy Summer of leasing. Once we get to full Autumn/Winter they will be offering a number of incentives to bring in whatever traffic is left shopping in winter. 10-12 WEEKS Free and fees waived depending on each companies policies. Some have permission to waive fees outright some can not waive deposits some have all those amenity fees during the lease so they don't care about waiving the sign-up fees. 8 WEEKS is a standard industry deal it's not an indicator of the property being slow. I know of numerous buildings that are at 95% and stay there by offering 8 WEEKS FREE all year long.

[Hannibal Lecter]

My girlfriend spoke with a guy who had moved out of one of the penthouse units. He said he had learned not to tell people in Deep Ellum he lived in that building because of the hatred he encountered.

[cowboyeagle05]

Hatred over what?

[Thymant]

I love this addition, I was already beginning to wonder when we would see more creative features added to Deep Ellum new builds.

[DallasMan]

Great building. Awful mural idea!

[tamtagon]

If someone could get Ron English to paint one of these buildings, the world would be right!

[BigD5349]

Does anyone know what happened to the old (and iconic) Clearview sign on Elm at Crowdus?