Dallas College: El Centro relocation

lakewoodhobo
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Dallas College: El Centro relocation

Postby lakewoodhobo » 14 Nov 2019 10:35

Dallas’ Community College District Can’t Issue $1.1 Billion In Bonds Because of a Lawsuit
https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... e-lawsuit/

“As long as the election contest suit is pending or until a final, non-appealable judicial order that does not overturn the election has been obtained, the district is unable to issue bonds or finance a public project(s),” reads the emailed statement. “The district will be able to issue bonds after the bond-related litigation is favorably concluded.”


So it looks like until this lawsuit is dismissed, DCCD can't move forward with its plans for a $535 million higher ed and innovation hub w/ student housing that some of us were speculating could be part of the Smart District south of City Hall.

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Re: El Centro relocation

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 14 Nov 2019 12:09

Filed by former GOP Dallas County Sheriff candidate and self-proclaimed county election “watcher” Kirk Launius, the lawsuit includes an 18-page petition and more than 4,500 pages of evidence. Launius’ petition reads as an indictment of the entire Dallas County election process. It also could read, depending on your line of sight, as a cynical attempt to confuse the judicial system and stagnate the bond package. Launius says his intentions are pure.
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Re: El Centro relocation

Postby lakewoodhobo » 07 Feb 2020 09:45

Dallas’ 7 Community Colleges Plan to Become 1
https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/dal ... e-11858965

Nothing new here in terms of the lawsuit keeping DCCD from building its new campus, but it seems like the wheels are turning in the effort to merge the seven schools into one. "His administration is submitting a proposal to its accreditor, the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Commission on Colleges, in March. It will announce its final decision in June." EDIT: The trial in this case looks to be set for March 16. https://www.docketalarm.com/cases/Texas ... RES_et_al/

That brings me back to the Smart District renderings that were shared a while back, and it's pretty clear that Hoque Global is planning the main building to be just south of Butler Bros.

Screen Shot 2020-02-07 at 9.29.05 AM.jpg
Screen Shot 2020-02-07 at 9.49.19 AM.jpg

There's also the question of what will happen to the current El Centro campus and if the Sanger Bros. building would be in danger of demolition for something like a new parking garage for BofA Tower.
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muncien
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Re: El Centro relocation

Postby muncien » 07 Feb 2020 12:47

I'm not all that familiar with the interiors of the existing El Centro campus, but from the outside it appears like a great opportunity for residential conversion. That area could certainly use some residents (you could say the same for almost every other corner of downtown). Tearing those buildings down would be a shame. There are already plenty of empty lots available for garages... and I wasn't all that against their previous garage proposal.
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Re: El Centro relocation

Postby dallaz » 07 Feb 2020 13:34

lakewoodhobo wrote:Dallas’ 7 Community Colleges Plan to Become 1
https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/dal ... e-11858965

Nothing new here in terms of the lawsuit keeping DCCD from building its new campus, but it seems like the wheels are turning in the effort to merge the seven schools into one. "His administration is submitting a proposal to its accreditor, the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Commission on Colleges, in March. It will announce its final decision in June." EDIT: The trial in this case looks to be set for March 16. https://www.docketalarm.com/cases/Texas ... RES_et_al/

That brings me back to the Smart District renderings that were shared a while back, and it's pretty clear that Hoque Global is planning the main building to be just south of Butler Bros.

Screen Shot 2020-02-07 at 9.29.05 AM.jpgScreen Shot 2020-02-07 at 9.49.19 AM.jpg
There's also the question of what will happen to the current El Centro campus and if the Sanger Bros. building would be in danger of demolition for something like a new parking garage for BofA Tower.

The Sanger’s portion of the building is landmarked. I remember a few years back they had a celebration of the building’s history as a department store. They had old bags and merchandise displayed from Sanger-Harris.

muncien wrote:I'm not all that familiar with the interiors of the existing El Centro campus, but from the outside it appears like a great opportunity for residential conversion. That area could certainly use some residents (you could say the same for almost every other corner of downtown). Tearing those buildings down would be a shame. There are already plenty of empty lots available for garages... and I wasn't all that against their previous garage proposal.

I think the oldest portion of the building would be best for a residential conversion (the original Sanger’s building). The newer portions of the building (IMO) aren’t worth saving. The additions are kinda set up like a high school building without lockers. Many portions of the building are windowless and the flow of the building would probably make it difficult for it to be converted. Honestly, I can’t believe it made it this long as a college campus. It can be quite difficult to make it to class on time in the very cramped campus they have now.

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Re: El Centro relocation

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 07 Feb 2020 15:09

Well let's not forget they own multiple buildings, not just the main building attached to the old Sanger-Harris. They also own the Paramount Bldg in the West End and have an admin across the street.
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Re: El Centro relocation

Postby Matt777 » 08 Feb 2020 10:53

Does anyone else think the proposed El Centro relocation site is too far from most transit for comfort? I feel like one of the main things the current campus has going for it is that it's in the epicenter of transit. Directly on 4 DART Lines and next to the West End bus transfer station. I know this is big for students who want to save money on parking or don't have a car.

The new site is a long hike from any current rail station (by Dallas standards, at least) and is not near any bus transfer center. The D2 line would have a station 4 blocks away (Commerce/Ervay), if/when that gets built.

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Re: El Centro relocation

Postby Hwulivn » 09 Feb 2020 13:46

^Agreed. Maybe there are plans to build in a remedy of some kind. Who knows. So often the decision makers in Dallas are out of touch with the challenges faced by huge swaths of the population.

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Re: El Centro relocation

Postby lakewoodhobo » 10 Feb 2020 10:20

It would be a monumental challenge to overcome, but I can imagine shuttles picking up at Cedars Station and the East Transfer Center, both of which are a similar distance from the campus. East Transfer is a short walk from Pearl Station and will be a short walk from the EQ (CBD East) station if D2 is ever built.

Of course, they're hoping that many of the students will choose to live in the Smart District.

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Re: El Centro relocation

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 11 Feb 2020 09:34

Yeah if they are moving to a concept where they have on-campus housing seems like the dependency on DART Trains exclusively for student access kinda changes. Currently, though a lot of El Centro students do use DART though so I do wonder what all is in these plans. El Centro student make up seems like 50% high school students and the other half if made up of returning education type students. I attended there for culinary school right out of college but it has def been evolving since I left.
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Re: El Centro relocation

Postby Tucy » 09 Mar 2021 10:14

Any updates on this? Is there still consensus that this will most likely be in the NewPark development?

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Re: El Centro relocation

Postby Tnexster » 09 Mar 2021 15:57

Tucy wrote:Any updates on this? Is there still consensus that this will most likely be in the NewPark development?


Good question, in the Newpark video they keep referencing an educational component and the Dallas College Culinary School is clearly shown on the ground level of the first 38 story tower. So it looks like yes or at least some piece of the Dallas College system will be located there.

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Re: El Centro relocation

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 10 Mar 2021 16:03

I think the only slow down on the El Centro component has been that lawsuit over the bond election. Does anyone have any update on whether that lawsuit is still in flux? I imagine the courts haven't made a decision yet or NewPark would have been using the Dallas College name in the videos or even just verbally in last week's publicity push.
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Re: El Centro relocation

Postby Tucy » 06 Aug 2021 11:30

cowboyeagle05 wrote:I think the only slow down on the El Centro component has been that lawsuit over the bond election. Does anyone have any update on whether that lawsuit is still in flux? I imagine the courts haven't made a decision yet or NewPark would have been using the Dallas College name in the videos or even just verbally in last week's publicity push.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... dBbly0c3ue

https://www.dallascollege.edu/bond/page ... board.aspx

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Re: El Centro relocation

Postby Tnexster » 06 Aug 2021 11:58

Tucy wrote:
cowboyeagle05 wrote:I think the only slow down on the El Centro component has been that lawsuit over the bond election. Does anyone have any update on whether that lawsuit is still in flux? I imagine the courts haven't made a decision yet or NewPark would have been using the Dallas College name in the videos or even just verbally in last week's publicity push.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... dBbly0c3ue

https://www.dallascollege.edu/bond/page ... board.aspx


Clearly the lawsuit is settled and El Centro is moving forward with their renovation of the existing building. So whatever is planned at Newark it isn't a relocation of El Centro. Dallas College name was clearly placed in one Newpark video some time ago so the only question is what would DC have planned there? Given the speculative nature of the tower and time to build it I can't imagine it would be easy to plan anything. Newpark is still a big "what if" project.

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Re: El Centro relocation

Postby CTroyMathis » 18 Sep 2023 15:01

I wonder what came of this: https://www.dallascollege.edu/bond/docu ... roject.pdf

It shows closed some time ago here: https://bids.sciquest.com/apps/Router/P ... 5067043378

Edit-ins:
I saw timelines for RFQs in Fall 2023.
RFPs in Spring 2024.

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Re: Dallas College: El Centro relocation

Postby CTroyMathis » 18 Sep 2023 15:17

If it's in their budget and scope, or attainable, even Field Street and North End might check-off quite a few bucket-list desires in that RFI description. Then again, there are other options as well.

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Re: Dallas College: El Centro relocation

Postby rono3849 » 18 Sep 2023 15:20

Newpark is a pipe dream. I suspect it will take something out of the ordinary to happen for this development to ever get off the ground. It doesn't look like there's a college in the wings that would take space in a high rise tower on the Southside of Downtown Dallas. Baylor Medical has their own campus, UT Southwestern is locked in with their campus. North Texas has their campus established, & UT-Dallas is in Richardson. What's left?

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Re: Dallas College: El Centro relocation

Postby zaphod » 21 Sep 2023 22:04

I would hope they would stay in the CBD close to DART, a community college is going to be a consistent provider of foot traffic and people buying coffee and food, and having it close to rail will encourage ridership and reduce parking/congestion issues.

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Re: Dallas College: El Centro relocation

Postby thelivingworld » 21 Sep 2023 22:43

rono3849 wrote:Newpark is a pipe dream. I suspect it will take something out of the ordinary to happen for this development to ever get off the ground. It doesn't look like there's a college in the wings that would take space in a high rise tower on the Southside of Downtown Dallas. Baylor Medical has their own campus, UT Southwestern is locked in with their campus. North Texas has their campus established, & UT-Dallas is in Richardson. What's left?


I know there are some very long term plans for a downtown DISD middle school and high school for the middle class folks to keep them from fleeing to the burbs when they decide to have kids, something a little less complicated than the current choice school application process where admission is a bit more assured as long as you live within the loop. Seems pretty far out timewise so probably lines up with the Newpark timeline.

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Re: Dallas College: El Centro relocation

Postby rono3849 » 22 Sep 2023 01:39

thelivingworld wrote:
rono3849 wrote:Newpark is a pipe dream. I suspect it will take something out of the ordinary to happen for this development to ever get off the ground. It doesn't look like there's a college in the wings that would take space in a high rise tower on the Southside of Downtown Dallas. Baylor Medical has their own campus, UT Southwestern is locked in with their campus. North Texas has their campus established, & UT-Dallas is in Richardson. What's left?


I know there are some very long term plans for a downtown DISD middle school and high school for the middle class folks to keep them from fleeing to the burbs when they decide to have kids, something a little less complicated than the current choice school application process where admission is a bit more assured as long as you live within the loop. Seems pretty far out timewise so probably lines up with the Newpark timeline.


I don't see the DISD being a big tenant for the Newpark towers. They don't have money to rebuild Thomas Jefferson High School, let alone pay huge rents to a developer. I just don't see that as being feasible at all.

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Re: Dallas College: El Centro relocation

Postby thelivingworld » 22 Sep 2023 01:59

Newpark is such a long way from happening that I'm not sure the current situation is even relevant. The city is already in partnership with the developer providing subsidies, so why actually can't the TIF money be used to help build the school if DISD doesn't have the money? Seems like economic stimulus to me for the reasons I listed above. I'm not sure why Hoque would declare the intention to host a new DISD school and then charge them rents they cannot pay. Makes no sense at all. Regardless the public schools issue needs to be solved in one way or another or people will just leave the city when their kids reach school age.

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Re: Dallas College: El Centro relocation

Postby I45Tex » 23 Sep 2023 11:48

DISD should move hermit-crablike into the Kay Bailey Hutchison building when I get the new convention center built on Central at Park Lane :o

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Re: Dallas College: El Centro relocation

Postby lakewoodhobo » 23 Sep 2023 14:12

rono3849 wrote:Newpark is a pipe dream. I suspect it will take something out of the ordinary to happen for this development to ever get off the ground. It doesn't look like there's a college in the wings that would take space in a high rise tower on the Southside of Downtown Dallas. Baylor Medical has their own campus, UT Southwestern is locked in with their campus. North Texas has their campus established, & UT-Dallas is in Richardson. What's left?


Before the 2007 recession, Savannah College of Art & Design was interested in a downtown Dallas campus. It seems like complete fantasy today, but nothing that was possible 16 years ago should be considered impossible now, whether it's this specific institution or another one. The point is we shouldn't limit the possibilities to the usual North Texas cast.

Side note: If El Centro left the CBD and still dared to call themselves "El Centro", ugh... so Dallas.

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Re: Dallas College: El Centro relocation

Postby I45Tex » 23 Sep 2023 14:20

I didn't know that; I just assumed that SCAD Atlanta was the urban presence SCAD sought to have. Interesting.

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Re: Dallas College: El Centro relocation

Postby I45Tex » 23 Sep 2023 14:22

Good point about feasibility assessments.

When our emeritus member forumer grantboston was attending Tufts I always wondered whether North Texas could fund ourselves a new inner city campus of that august institution, or of Johns Hopkins, or Sewanee, or GWU, or maybe a private West Coast one like the Claremont Graduate University.

If you want to be truly trailblazers though...
The private [Catholic] University of Dallas and the vacant land nearby would make a good host institute and site for a joint campus of UTD, SMU, University of Dallas, Monterrey Institute of Technology, and Pontifical Catholic University of Chile.

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Re: Dallas College: El Centro relocation

Postby I45Tex » 23 Sep 2023 17:24

Maybe even a sixth one from Venezuela or Colombia

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Re: El Centro relocation

Postby I45Tex » 25 Sep 2023 10:04

lakewoodhobo wrote:Dallas’ 7 Community Colleges Plan to Become 1

Nothing new here in terms of the lawsuit keeping DCCD from building its new campus, but it seems like the wheels are turning in the effort to merge the seven schools into one.
...There's also the question of what will happen to the current El Centro campus and if the Sanger Bros. building would be in danger of demolition for something like a new parking garage for BofA Tower.


IIRC 901 Main already has a competitive parking ratio, but maybe that ratio norm is in an ongoing state of flux, now that more people are using less office floorspace under different peak and trough occupancies. So it's an understandable example.

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Re: Dallas College: El Centro relocation

Postby I45Tex » 25 Sep 2023 10:22

San Antonio legislators have frequently discussed (over the past decades) introducing a state amendment to allow their city government to consolidate with that of Bexar County to eliminate duplicated departmental capacities for cost reduction purposes. More than 70% of county citizens already reside within city limits of SA; I would guess that way more than 75% work there.

In their case the option would remain with the voters in each incorporated city whether to remain grandfathered part of the county but not join the city-county itself. But those suburban voters could also vote to join it.

Not sure how much traction Dallas and Fort Worth would get by supporting the same legislation but I for one could see the sense in even more consolidation here. I wouldn't even mind if Tarrant and Dallas Counties combined their community college, drainage and hospital districts, county administration and criminal justice systems in a new Arlington joint county seat, so long as there were two or three civil justice centers hosted in the most convenient places (probably still DTD and DTFW, plus perhaps Euless and Carrollton?) and everyone didn't need to schlep to Arlington for jury duty.

FYI in 2023 an even more important urban county which combined Dallas, Tarrant, Denton and Collin (yeah, I know, I know...) would be 7 million Texans... hard to believe

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Re: Dallas College: El Centro relocation

Postby FishSaucer » 17 Nov 2023 23:44

Some updates on a board meeting I attended earlier today regarding the new El Centro Campus:

RFI’s from board have only received general info and stats from developers. About ten developers and a couple real estate folks are interested in working with the school and have consulted with them regarding the fixed bond amount. IIRC, about $500 million is exclusively going to the new campus, or what they will dub a “technology innovation” center. The board and trustees on the board want to potentially integrate elements such as retail, food, and entertainment on the ground level to boost property value.

Board & committee is really pushing on-campus housing for students. The board will oversee and investigate the current academic status for all students. The board is also pushing towards a potential 92k students by the end of the decade: https://www.dallascollege.edu/bond/pages/default.aspx which may suggest why they are planning on-campus housing for current and future students.

Dallas College’s lease with One Main Place ends this year, which will force the relocation of the architecture, interior design, engineering & fashion design programs back to the main campus. The board wants to avoid perhaps building in the West End neighborhood as the Paramount building has seen a spike in security incidents. The board also wants to make sure the campus is accessible via DART light rails, and/or DART shuttles/fleets which suggest the idea of building the campus near Cedars and/or near Dallas City Hall. There is also talk of doing a conversion and re-designing the current 801 Main St. building and expanding it vertically, though this will conflict with the West End district’s zoning laws.

My biggest takeaway of course is the on-campus housing. The high interest rates and lack of downtown building is not ignored by developers. The board will spend the next couple of months doing demographics analysis and understanding that half, if not more than half of DCCCD students will not be able to afford this housing. There is little incentive to keep students housed on-site given the lack of amenities, entertainment, food, recreation, and safety on the current site. I will soon take it up to the board to perhaps reconsider the housing element, and invest in other departments such as curriculum, curriculum research, programs, etc.
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Re: Dallas College: El Centro relocation

Postby I45Tex » 18 Nov 2023 11:14

A worthwhile update. Thank you.

A lot of great curricula are already produced on shoestring budgets or free and open source, if DCCCD will just welcome skilled citizen facilitators, make it worth their while to mentor other promising community members, and so forth like a real community. In the 1990s some of our best faculty in programs like avionics (Mountain View) used to get away with teaching whatever extra skill sets their classes were interested to learn.*

I wonder if a developer like Portman, one of whose proposed resi towers is geared around some kind of efficiency studio, would be willing to be reimbursed at cost to build just core and shell of El Centro dorm floors in some of their development, or by the CBD East Transit Center, to help further densify and make commercially viable what some maps already call our City Center District, south of the frankly-built-to-remain-sleepy Arts District.

DCCCD can finish out the floors to agreed standards on its own schedule after that, using matching fund grants or whatever other means they choose, while they could share fixture bulk-quantity purchase orders with the private developer and perhaps save by using the same things. But it would meanwhile allow Portman's revenue paying residential floors overhead to all be 10 or 20 more stories above the ground than they would've been, and of course make it that much more of an active 24/7 area of town on the ground.

* That was and is better for most than even the average mass production model geared for most. I editorialize this not on romantic grounds, but because that kind of schooling produces as its major product (in a dollars to final outputs sense) citizens who feel unworthy when they drop out and believe themselves less able to be smart or participate just because they didn't for whatever reason receive lessons efficiently in an education-dispensing setting.