Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Tnexster wrote:What exactly is "affordable"?

Designed for people with only ONE trust fund.

As to the affordable factor, the Downtown Connection TIF District, which supported this project, required 83 percent of the units be dwellings for artists earning incomes of 50 percent and 60 percent of the Dallas Area Median Income.


https://dallas.towers.net/2017/03/22/cr ... eet-lofts/

Tucy wrote:As to the affordable factor, the Downtown Connection TIF District, which supported this project, required 83 percent of the units be dwellings for artists earning incomes of 50 percent and 60 percent of the Dallas Area Median Income.


https://dallas.towers.net/2017/03/22/cr ... eet-lofts/

Just to clarify with another quote from that article, that percentage is referring to the units wrapped around the above-ground parking. The Atelier highrise portion is all market rates.

Flora Street Lofts is to be comprised of 52 units of which 43 will be an affordable rates.

The artists’ lofts will be in a five-level podium structure, part of which will also be a parking garage for 522 vehicles.

The Flora & Olive Tower's major construction has just about been completed. It's spot on the skyline complements the cluster of Arts' District buildings. I believe some of the apartments in the lower levels are about ready to lease.

The Flora & Olive Tower has very few floors left for completion. I understand they are now leasing lower units on lower floors.

I love this tower! I think its such a great addition to Dallas, I do wish the exterior was more beige than white.. but i love it

I am looking forward to the day when all of the street level retail restaurant is fully leased up on all of these buildings both downtown and across the park in Uptown. There is so much empty space at the street level in these developments. I am glad it is here and brings people living in that area.

I like the white color. There’s so much beige and brown and concrete around KWP. This is a good contrast.

Does anyone know if this tower helps, hurts, or does nothing in regards to the Museum Tower reflection issue and the Nasher?

quixomniac wrote:Does anyone know if this tower helps, hurts, or does nothing in regards to the Museum Tower reflection issue and the Nasher?

If you look at the position of the tower, you can see that it's at an angle. The developers purposely did this to prevent any reflection on the Nasher Collection. It does no harm to the Nasher whatsoever.

rono3849 wrote:

quixomniac wrote:Does anyone know if this tower helps, hurts, or does nothing in regards to the Museum Tower reflection issue and the Nasher?

If you look at the position of the tower, you can see that it's at an angle. The developers purposely did this to prevent any reflection on the Nasher Collection. It does no harm to the Nasher whatsoever.

I thought I read that the angle was there to lessen the southern view blockage of MT, but what you said makes sense too.

Hmm. I thought it was angled because of the shape of the land plot
and the highway ramp that is encircling museum tower.

But i didnt so much mean does Flora/Oliver Tower reflect onto Nasher.
Rather, does it help reduce the glare of Museum Tower by casting a shadow?
I suppose nothing will do that
unless they build a really tower on the opposite side of Nasher facing Museum Tower.
Or maybe its now a moot point, since we haven't heard much from Nasher,
Other than they aren't displaying pieces in places that could be damaged by the sun.

quixomniac wrote:I suppose nothing will [help reduce the glare of Museum Tower] unless they build a [supertall] tower on the opposite side of Nasher facing Museum Tower.

If they haven't settled out of court yet, they could still strike a deal for the defendants to invest in a second taller tower rather than pay out that same money in damages etc.

I've designed a skyscraper with the idea for most of it to be a vertical DMA wing, supported on slipform concrete shafts that don't disturb the existing building's shell. Would be exciting from KWP because the circulation patterns of galleries (and plentiful public emergency egress routes) allow for very different massing and articulation of volumes than an office or apartment tower tends to do.

^Killer pics

Agreed, those are nice!

High style high-rise opens in Dallas’ Arts District
Atelier apartment tower is the latest luxury living addition in downtown Dallas

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... -district/

Step through the Flora Street doors of the new Atelier tower in downtown Dallas, and you’ll find an exhibit hall filled with artworks.

That’s not the usual welcome at a high-rise apartment building. But the Atelier is the first such rental tower in Dallas’ Arts District.

“We wanted to tie into the Arts District,” said John Vranac, property manager for the tower, which is holding its grand opening this week. “When you first walk in, it makes you feel like you are in a museum.”

Looks great. Cosmopolitan address. Wish we had one more site left on Flora for another residential tower.

Figured I’d drop some photos I shot of the property recently. I forgot to take a photo of it, but one of the Flora Lofts units (a 2-story unit in particular) has a terrace that’s roughly 1,800 sqft. It’s massive, and is definitely a highlight of the entire property (for whoever has the money to live there lol).

The Flora & Olive Tower certainly looks great on the skyline in its finished form.

It does. We should just build a bunch of residential buildings like Miami and let them fill up.

Great addition, totally agree. Make downtown a Brickell^^

cowboyeagle05 wrote:The biggest problem is apartment leasing staff are still working cause they are considered essential jobs but movers are closed down.

I disagree with you. If apartment rental employees are still working, Dfwmovingco dallas movers also work. Somehow they move to these apartments.

Eva_pol wrote:

cowboyeagle05 wrote:The biggest problem is apartment leasing staff are still working cause they are considered essential jobs but movers are closed down.

I disagree with you. If apartment rental employees are still working, Dfwmovingco dallas movers also work. Somehow they move to these apartments.

You disagree with something that was said a year ago and was true at the time it was stated. That's pretty bold.

I haven't checked out this building up close. I'm wondering what kind of retail/restaurant will end up taking up the street level spaces on both sides of Flora.

Untitled by rlopez2011, on Flickr

So.....as I remember the lower level loft style apartments were originally intended as affordable ( somewhat ) residences for artists. Fast forward to 2021 and now they are hotel/apartment units that will go for $200.00 per night. How very Dallas. Beautiful building though.

scott2 wrote:So.....as I remember the lower level loft style apartments were originally intended as affordable ( somewhat ) residences for artists. Fast forward to 2021 and now they are hotel/apartment units that will go for $200.00 per night. How very Dallas. Beautiful building though.

Wow. Steve Brown totally missed the real story. Scott, you do remember correctly, but ever since the original announcement, it seems nobody has talked about or asked about the so-called affordable artist lofts (except a few of us on this forum).

Not only is this scandalous, it exposes the lies we are routinely told about how quickly all the rental units downtown are filling up and the likelihood that Downtown Dallas Inc. "exaggerated" again when they touted a 95% occupancy rate for downtown Dallas apartments.

Tucy wrote:

scott2 wrote:So.....as I remember the lower level loft style apartments were originally intended as affordable ( somewhat ) residences for artists. Fast forward to 2021 and now they are hotel/apartment units that will go for $200.00 per night. How very Dallas. Beautiful building though.

Wow. Steve Brown totally missed the real story. Scott, you do remember correctly, but ever since the original announcement, it seems nobody has talked about or asked about the so-called affordable artist lofts (except a few of us on this forum).

Not only is this scandalous, it exposes the lies we are routinely told about how quickly all the rental units downtown are filling up and the likelihood that Downtown Dallas Inc. "exaggerated" again when they touted a 95% occupancy rate for downtown Dallas apartments.

I manage a real estate brokerage and was excited to tour Atelier with my agents because of its location and what it was supposed to be, but yeah, no. Finishes are meh for the prices you're paying, the actual building is in shambles (due to the types of residents that've moved in and ongoing incompetent construction), and yep, no affordable units. I asked the leasing office agents about the change & if they knew anything about it (which I know they're a separate company, but still, never know), and they straight-up denied, denied, denied that affordable units were ever a talked about thing... Lol. This was earlier this year, too, like February/March.

As an "artist" myself, I was thrilled at the prospect of a building catering towards creatives both stylistically/budget-wise. But nope. Dallas developers.

Poster willyk provided us with this handy summary of the subsidies that were approved for this project. 43 of the 52 loft units were supposed to be reserved for "affordable" housing. As far as I can tell, that subsidy was never rescinded or withdrawn. Now 40 of the units are being operated as $200/night hotel rooms. Outrageous. (As an aside, I recall a poster asking how the City of Dallas could seemingly always have budget problems with all of the new development constantly occurring; this is an example of how that happens)

43/52 (83%) of the units are affordable housing.
$25M project cost
$15M subsidies from TIF, housing bonds and tax credits
$10M net cost of the project to the developer

$350K City subsidy per affordable housing unit.

Well the leasing staff wouldn't be told. Leasing staff at these properties are told nothing so they can't speak ill or good about things they know nothing of. I am assuming the artist units team never materialized the money they needed to cover the cost of the artists lofts. When the tower started we knew they were still on shaky ground trying to fund that portion so much so many here thought the tower would magically float with luxury apartments above and the artists lofts would just materialize in between.

Do we know who is leasing the units to Mint? Is it the apartment building team? The owner is ZRS and their subsidiary ZRS Management is the leasing team for the units in the upper tower but its very possible this was just the owner ZRS parent company wanting some quick funds from a hotel lease since the units are probably separated in some form from the rest of the tower. I doubt this is any real indicator of trouble leasing. These hotel rooms are becoming standard issue these days with most management companies. The hotel companies are offering good deals and if these units were never intended to be a part of the same systems the rest of the rental units are on with the upper tower it could be easier since these hotel teams are self sufficient.

As for the incentives provided that's a whole other animal I will let y'all mull over.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a business reporter who did something besides reprint press releases? There are so many unanswered (unasked) questions here...

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Well the leasing staff wouldn't be told. Leasing staff at these properties are told nothing so they can't speak ill or good about things they know nothing of. I am assuming the artist units team never materialized the money they needed to cover the cost of the artists lofts. When the tower started we knew they were still on shaky ground trying to fund that portion so much so many here thought the tower would magically float with luxury apartments above and the artists lofts would just materialize in between.

Do we know who is leasing the units to Mint? Is it the apartment building team? The owner is ZRS and their subsidiary ZRS Management is the leasing team for the units in the upper tower but its very possible this was just the owner ZRS parent company wanting some quick funds from a hotel lease since the units are probably separated in some form from the rest of the tower. I doubt this is any real indicator of trouble leasing. These hotel rooms are becoming standard issue these days with most management companies. The hotel companies are offering good deals and if these units were never intended to be a part of the same systems the rest of the rental units are on with the upper tower it could be easier since these hotel teams are self sufficient.

As for the incentives provided that's a whole other animal I will let y'all mull over.

The record owner of both the high-rise and "artist loft" apartments is an LLC named Atelier Apartments LLC. It appears to be owned by ZOM, which also built the building. I think ZRS (which also appears to be related to ZOM) is just the management company.

cowboyeagle05 wrote: I doubt this is any real indicator of trouble leasing. These hotel rooms are becoming standard issue these days with most management companies. are self sufficient.

I was going to say the same thing...these "apartment building hotels" are common in just about every major city now. A friend talked me into booking one in Los Angeles once and I really wasn't a fan. Maybe it's just me, but when I'm on vacation, I really prefer being in a nice hotel. The apartment and building was beautiful, but I felt like I was housesitting.

Anyway, I went to Klyde Warren last weekend and I must say, this building is much more attractive when seen in person than in photos. It's a nice change from all the glass boxes that surround it.

vman wrote:

cowboyeagle05 wrote: I doubt this is any real indicator of trouble leasing. These hotel rooms are becoming standard issue these days with most management companies. are self sufficient.

I was going to say the same thing...these "apartment building hotels" are common in just about every major city now. A friend talked me into booking one in Los Angeles once and I really wasn't a fan. Maybe it's just me, but when I'm on vacation, I really prefer being in a nice hotel. The apartment and building was beautiful, but I felt like I was housesitting.

Quite right they have become common in just about every major city, but I suspect they are most common in the parts of towns that have an oversupply of apartments. As a rule, apartment developers don't develop apartment complexes with the intention of operating hotels. It seems likely it's more of a fallback that has become available.

I think the artists lofts we're initially tied to LaReunion, but turned out to be incompatible with that organization.... That was the biggest disappointment for me. I think the DMA still sponsors a couple artists in residence nearby.

It will take a well-funded organization to host 40-50 affordable artist lofts. Deep Ellum is probably a better location anyway.

undefinedprocess wrote:I manage a real estate brokerage and was excited to tour Atelier with my agents because of its location and what it was supposed to be, but yeah, no. Finishes are meh for the prices you're paying, the actual building is in shambles (due to the types of residents that've moved in and ongoing incompetent construction), and yep, no affordable units. I asked the leasing office agents about the change & if they knew anything about it (which I know they're a separate company, but still, never know), and they straight-up denied, denied, denied that affordable units were ever a talked about thing... Lol. This was earlier this year, too, like February/March.

As an "artist" myself, I was thrilled at the prospect of a building catering towards creatives both stylistically/budget-wise. But nope. Dallas developers.

To say the "actual building is in shambles" is pretty dramatic. I have lived here for the last two and a half months after selling my home and overall think the amenities are top notch. Of course there are growing pains with a brand new building where they are still finishing-out units, but to say it's in shambles is comical. I also think the finish-out of the units is very nice compared to the competition: built-in panelized appliances, exposed concrete ceilings, wine fridges, etc. Is it perfect? No. Is it worth the money they charge? That's up for debate.

To the other point about the promise of affordable units; yes, that definitely hasn't happened and probably never will in this building. Another broken promise by a developer with little or no accountability.

Tucy wrote:
Quite right they have become common in just about every major city, but I suspect they are most common in the parts of towns that have an oversupply of apartments. As a rule, apartment developers don't develop apartment complexes with the intention of operating hotels. It seems likely it's more of a fallback that has become available.

We are just gonna have to aggressively disagree on this issue and I will leave it at that.

Why can’t an artist just stay at the loft hotel for a night and paint a picture. It’s far more democratic this way, anyone can do it. Also, hotel loft themed porn could be filmed here. They consider themselves “artists”. Maybe the developers did exactly what they said they were going to do all along and you guys have an outdated, snobby, boring and highly conventional view of what an “artist” is.

Sooooo… can we assume the public subsidies that were approved were not disbursed. It’s a bit troubling the article never says…