Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

itsjrd1964
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Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby itsjrd1964 » 31 May 2019 04:06

Yes, it's been mentioned in other Oak Cliff-related threads, but it looks like the work at Wynnewood is at a level that deserves it's own thread IMO.

Incoming/upcoming:
* LA Fitness, with its foundation going in now, on the site of a torn-down office building. Completion is set for later this year.
* Raising Cane's, signed up but nothing more specific in the article
* Maya Cinemas, a 14-screen theater with a Hispanic angle, has not started on its construction but the developer is saying it should open by the latter half of next year

More will apparently be announced later as far as other activity/additions/tenants. The City is working on storm water/drainage issues in the vicinity, with that work scheduled to be done later this year.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ret ... later-year
https://www.brixmor.com/re-development/ ... od-village

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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby lakewoodhobo » 16 Jul 2019 21:31

Photo taken today of LA Fitness under construction. Moving a lot faster now that all the foundation work is done:

IMG_0344.jpg


Rendering for reference: Image
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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 17 Jul 2019 09:41

One thing we will have to keep in mind here is that new tenants will take some settling time to see if the demographics work out for them. Wynnewood is changing physically and the neighborhoods are seeing changes too but time will tell if new tenants will truly be able to grab the right mix of locals and new neighborhood transplants.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby Thymant » 17 Jul 2019 10:57

I believe they will have no issues financially with the demographics of this area is area. Homes prices in this area are actually on the higher side nowadays and for someone to be able to afford a home in this area, they should be able to afford a $45 gym membership or a $15 movie ticket if they wanted to do so. Unfortunately I believe the Oak Cliff neighborhood as a whole is just under served.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 17 Jul 2019 11:05

Let me explain myself further what I mean is I assume they will be trying to allure the Cheesecake Factories of the world or Glorias or other higher-end chains into the mix and that some may open but some may not survive over a short time in the renovated center.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby lakewoodhobo » 17 Jul 2019 11:13

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Let me explain myself further what I mean is I assume they will be trying to allure the Cheesecake Factories of the world or Glorias or other higher-end chains into the mix and that some may open but some may not survive over a short time in the renovated center.


I think they are aware of this to an extent. Case in point: the only other new tenant besides Maya Cinemas and LA that's been announced, and the first one that'll open since the Wynnewood 2.0 announcement, is Raising Cane's.

I don't see them going for Cheesecake Factory or Gloria's anytime soon. This is more of a play for Chipotle and Starbucks.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby tamtagon » 17 Jul 2019 13:21

I know at least three family groups who've recently moved into this general Wynwood area -- all are 80s/90s East Dallas/Deep Ellum/Expo/Fair Park resident artists and/or musicians, among the first waves of folks to gentrify Bishop Arts & Oak Cliff. All three groups are now making a southern move from North Oak Cliff area. This demographic has grown up and been raising children for a bit and many will be greater Wynwood area for another generation. The change seen in North Oak Cliff most popularized through Bishop Arts will happen again.

We should already start looking at Camp Wisdom educational institutions and what they should become. South Dallas is where downtown was 20 years ago.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby lakewoodhobo » 20 Nov 2019 09:41

LA Fitness opened yesterday according to an employee there.

Image

Image

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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 20 Nov 2019 12:24

Looks very nice. Glad to see South of the river getting some new stuff in what I would consider the inner city. LA Fitness can vary in quality in my mind but being a brand new facility and not just a repurposed older gym means some potential for quality space long term if the management can employ a staff that takes care.
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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby lakewoodhobo » 25 Mar 2021 08:36

Recently learned that Wynnewood Village redevelopment plans have changed a bit, understandably. The movie theater isn't just delayed but scrapped altogether, which is a good thing in my opinion. That structure was never started but the parking lot and lighting were finished ages ago, meaning that a new anchor tenant could easily take advantage of this.

A Kids Empire (playground space) is opening next to Ross, and there is some new construction going on near Kroger, so it's good to know that the owners didn't hit the brakes after LA Fitness and Cane's opened.

IMG_3994.jpg


Side note: I realize this is dime-store architecture, but the LA Fitness looks closer to its rendering than any building I've ever seen on this forum.
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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby lakewoodhobo » 03 Jun 2021 15:35

Wynnewood seems to be playing a quiet game of musical chairs, moving the UT Southwestern medical offices into new construction behind the shopping center. Not sure if this means more changes are coming to the front side where Ross and some adjacent vacant spots are, but it would make sense.

IMG_6413.jpg


And this is complete speculation on my part, but I noticed that the shopping center at the SE corner of Hampton and Illinois was purchased 3 months ago by a developer with several properties that have El Rancho Supermarket as a lead tenant. It wouldn't completely shock me if El Rancho left Wynnewood Village due to increased rent and/or other plans for that space by the owners.
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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby lakewoodhobo » 18 Jul 2023 07:31

https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/TABS/Projects/TABS2023023761

TX licensing and regulation filing yesterday for Target at Wynnewood Village showing a start date of 10/23/23 and completion date of 8/23/24.

This timeline had already been estimated, but this makes it official I suppose. The ongoing demolition phase seems to be taking forever, so 2-3 more months of that seems on-brand (and a blink of an eye compared to more high-profile demos of recent memory).

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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby Matt777 » 18 Jul 2023 12:53

Excellent. I will be so relieved to see the construction start in October which isn't that far away.

Every time this gets shared on social media, all the naysayers jump on it and 99% of the comments are about how this store will be mayhem and shoplifting.... which is false. I've shopped in North Oak Cliff and in North Dallas, and it's not very different. Plenty of stores operate profitably and safely in North Oak Cliff, and Target doesn't seem to have much trouble at their existing South Oak Cliff store.

The only exception would be the WalMart at I-30 and Cockrell Hill, which is always ratchet. But when I lived in North Dallas/Addison, the Walmarts there were ratchet too.... so I think it's more about the retailer itself than the location. Target will be tapping into a large, underserved market of retail starved North Cliff residents with rising incomes.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby MC_ScattCat » 18 Jul 2023 13:55

I don't shop at Wal Mart for a variety of reasons. I'm glad this is coming. For us in North OC going to a Target is a pain.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby lakewoodhobo » 18 Jul 2023 18:02

Matt777 wrote:Every time this gets shared on social media, all the naysayers jump on it and 99% of the comments are about how this store will be mayhem and shoplifting.... which is false.


Couldn't agree more. These people act as if Cityplace were Highland Park Village and they likely have no idea there used to be a gem of a movie theater where they currently get their Kroger Starbucks. Image

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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby dallaz » 18 Jul 2023 20:44

Oak Cliff still battles with a perception problem. For some reason, ppl think this is the Oak Cliff of the 90s. It’s not! I grew up in South Oak Cliff, it was rough in some areas (just being honest) but it no where near like it was then. Not even close.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby Matt777 » 18 Jul 2023 21:18

dallaz wrote:Oak Cliff still battles with a perception problem. For some reason, ppl think this is the Oak Cliff of the 90s. It’s not! I grew up in South Oak Cliff, it was rough in some areas (just being honest) but it no where near like it was then. Not even close.


So true. Some people react so ugly when I tell them where I live... despite it being a great neighborhood with actual social neighbors. These people in rented apartments in North Dallas/Addison looking down on me, despite new townhomes down the street in Oak Cliff going for $1.25 million...

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vman
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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby vman » 19 Jul 2023 08:04

Matt777 wrote:
dallaz wrote:
So true. Some people react so ugly when I tell them where I live... despite it being a great neighborhood with actual social neighbors. These people in rented apartments in North Dallas/Addison looking down on me, despite new townhomes down the street in Oak Cliff going for $1.25 million...


I definitely don't feel that way, but the same people would think you were nuts if you spent over a million dollars to live in Oak Cliff.

I do have a friend who purchased an expensive place (at the time; about 7 years ago) in Oak Cliff. He doesn't say he regrets it, but he definitely talks about the crime issues (there's been some bad things happen really close to his home) , hearing gunshots all the time and just feeling unsafe in certain areas near his house...not to mention the madness every year with the fireworks.
I considered buying a place in the inner city years ago, but chickened out and bought a townhome in Las Colinas. If I were younger, I probably would have purchased in Old East Dallas or Oak Cliff , but I feel I'm too old to deal with the issues that come with "urban" living.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby Addison » 19 Jul 2023 09:03

Matt777 wrote:Excellent. I will be so relieved to see the construction start in October which isn't that far away.

Every time this gets shared on social media, all the naysayers jump on it and 99% of the comments are about how this store will be mayhem and shoplifting.... which is false. I've shopped in North Oak Cliff and in North Dallas, and it's not very different. Plenty of stores operate profitably and safely in North Oak Cliff, and Target doesn't seem to have much trouble at their existing South Oak Cliff store.

The only exception would be the WalMart at I-30 and Cockrell Hill, which is always ratchet. But when I lived in North Dallas/Addison, the Walmarts there were ratchet too.... so I think it's more about the retailer itself than the location. Target will be tapping into a large, underserved market of retail starved North Cliff residents with rising incomes.


Walmart is pretty shitty everywhere, even in the wealthy neighborhoods (I.E. West Plano and Frisco from personal experience).

So comparing its locations is not exactly the best measuring stick when gauging how good/bad a neighborhood is.
Last edited by Addison on 19 Jul 2023 12:07, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby Tnexster » 19 Jul 2023 09:04

Target has a timeframe for Oak Cliff’s Wynnewood Village store
The store planned for Wynnewood is slightly smaller than the Target that will open soon in Prosper.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ret ... age-store/

Image

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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby Addison » 19 Jul 2023 09:32

dallaz wrote:Oak Cliff still battles with a perception problem. For some reason, ppl think this is the Oak Cliff of the 90s. It’s not! I grew up in South Oak Cliff, it was rough in some areas (just being honest) but it no where near like it was then. Not even close.


It's not all perception.

Oak Cliff on average does still have lower income levels and higher ctrme rates, even if it is exaggerated by some.

Make no mistake, this Target is going to be run very differently versus the northside stores from a loss prevention standpoint.

Sources:

https://oakcliff.advocatemag.com/2021/0 ... -gap-maps/

https://propertyclub.nyc/article/most-d ... -in-dallas

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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby dallaz » 19 Jul 2023 11:27

Addison wrote:
dallaz wrote:Oak Cliff still battles with a perception problem. For some reason, ppl think this is the Oak Cliff of the 90s. It’s not! I grew up in South Oak Cliff, it was rough in some areas (just being honest) but it no where near like it was then. Not even close.


It's not all perception.

Oak Cliff on average does still have lower income levels and higher ctrme rates, even if it is exaggerated by some.

Make no mistake, this Target is going to be run very differently versus the northside stores from a loss prevention standpoint.

Sources:

https://oakcliff.advocatemag.com/2021/0 ... -gap-maps/

https://propertyclub.nyc/article/most-d ... -in-dallas

The common theme in Oak Cliff and Southern Dallas is lack of investment that turned once solidly middle to upper income areas into higher crime areas. Initially it was solely race related and now it has transitioned into more of perception problem/economics as a result. Oak Cliff is over 80 sq mi and it is difficult to sum up in one breath. Southern Dallas is simply a reflection of the business and political establishment lack of investment for decades as most of the money, power, wealth is invested and concentrated in North Dallas. I hate to put it this way, but places in Dallas that are typically majority minority don’t get any real investment, even if they’re stable middle class areas. There are numerous examples of this all over Southern Dallas. That forces those areas to decline and the remaining middle class population flees because of it. I’ve watched it play out that way. That’s why the Southern Suburbs now have a very high black middle class population. A good chuck of the Dallas’ black middle/professional class moved to DeSoto, Cedar Hill, etc as the business and political leadership continued to disinvest in those areas. I remember when Mayor Rawlings (or Mayor Leppert) said Dallas was losing the black middle class. To me, it was too late as I saw a mass exodus of blacks move during the 2000s/2010s. Just about my entire extended family moved out of Dallas proper into the southern suburbs.

I love Dallas, but even in the 90s…Dallas felt WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY more segregated than it does now (even though some areas are still are not as mixed as it should be). It has improved in a lot of ways, but you could clearly tell what area was the focus for the city and what places weren’t. Dallas still struggles with that to this day and it’s one for the reasons why growth has slowed a lot in comparison to what’s taking place in the region as a whole. The mistake I’m sure no one is willing to admit, is how 208 sq mi were completely underfunded to the point that the growth continued to push north and fueled the northward sprawl. If Southern Dallas received the investment that it was seeing before white flight and blockbusting in the 60s/70s, Dallas probably would have absorbed some of the growth we’re seeing in Collin County. I don’t know of any major city in America that intentionally underfunded over half of the city. Again, prolly the worse mistake ever done.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby lakewoodhobo » 19 Jul 2023 14:39

You couldn't pay me to live in Deep Ellum today. At least the gunshots in Oak Cliff are mainly celebratory or, at worst, gang rivals intimidating each other. Don't get me wrong, you need a thick skin to live in this area, but Oak Cliff has a combination of grit, nature, and history you can't find anywhere else in Dallas. If I win the lottery, I'm moving to Kessler Park.

When we moved to Elmwood in 2014, there were 3 problem houses in our block. Since then, one has been priced out of the neighborhood and the other two have calmed down after they realized their neighbors are paying attention. The progress I've seen here in just 9 years is pretty amazing, and part of me wants the "perception problem" to stay so I can still afford to live here.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby dallaz » 21 Jul 2023 19:59

lakewoodhobo wrote:You couldn't pay me to live in Deep Ellum today. At least the gunshots in Oak Cliff are mainly celebratory or, at worst, gang rivals intimidating each other. Don't get me wrong, you need a thick skin to live in this area, but Oak Cliff has a combination of grit, nature, and history you can't find anywhere else in Dallas. If I win the lottery, I'm moving to Kessler Park.

When we moved to Elmwood in 2014, there were 3 problem houses in our block. Since then, one has been priced out of the neighborhood and the other two have calmed down after they realized their neighbors are paying attention. The progress I've seen here in just 9 years is pretty amazing, and part of me wants the "perception problem" to stay so I can still afford to live here.

I like Elmwood. It's one of those areas that's in the path of growth in that section of Oak Cliff. The Growth in North Oak Cliff is spilling over into West Oak Cliff. I know they passed the West Oak Cliff Area Plan last year for the anticipated growth. Places that are further south, ie South Oak Cliff may take longer to revitalize/gentrify... if ever. North Oak Cliff is becoming a downtown adjacent neighborhood like Deep Ellum, Uptown, The Cedars, etc.

Just seen this

Revitalization plan for Dallas Downtown Elmwood neighborhood moves forward

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/revit ... d/3301107/

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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby lakewoodhobo » 22 Jul 2023 19:43

dallaz wrote:Just seen this

Revitalization plan for Dallas Downtown Elmwood neighborhood moves forward

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/revit ... d/3301107/


I was much more involved with the neighborhood association pre-COVID; our two big accomplishments back then were getting Elmwoof dog park opened and putting this rezoning case on the city's calendar. Then it got lumped into the much-bigger West Dallas Plan which (to me) came out of nowhere and somehow cut ahead in line. Chad West, and Scott Griggs before him, have been great for this area... we got much-needed street lighting and trail connections to Kiest Park and Tyler-Vernon Station in the last bond program.

Either way, happy to see this story in the news but it doesn't really explain anything. As I've been telling people, we want "nice things" but not so nice that we pay for it with hyper-gentrification.

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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby lakewoodhobo » 15 Jan 2024 15:26

Finally some movement on Target Wynnewood Village with partial demolition of existing structure underway.

IMG_2464.jpeg


This one is probably 3 months behind schedule so I'm guessing will open around October.
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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby Matt777 » 15 Jan 2024 16:01

Nice! Did you see any construction or site prep other than this demolition?

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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby lakewoodhobo » 16 Jan 2024 07:51

Matt777 wrote:Nice! Did you see any construction or site prep other than this demolition?


Only on the parking lot, which is being expanded and will include a drive-up canopy. There's also a large area fenced off for staging.

Once they clear this debris, they should be getting started on the main structure.

347139834_1373714073191762_2709602226967634711_n.jpg
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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby lakewoodhobo » 21 Feb 2024 13:13

The space next to Ross has been vacant for a while, but is currently being converted to a Burlington. They've taken out most of the awful cladding to reveal the original canopy arch from when it was Titche's, though sadly it looks like it'll be covered up again.

IMG_2897.jpeg
IMG_2894.jpeg


News footage of when it was "The Fair of Texas": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eipKCLXorDI[

Drawing from the Titche's days.
Burlington.jpg
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Re: Oak Cliff: Wynnewood Village

Postby eburress » 22 Feb 2024 08:40

That's kinda cool! It's too bad they're not bringing it back more to its original appearance.