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Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 20 May 2019 06:58
by ArtVandelay
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... se-project

"It's effectively the last piece of undeveloped land in that area where you could do something of substance," he said. "Internally we are calling it the crown jewel of McKinney Avenue."

131D3390-561D-4E19-AAF9-9FE2EB804A1A.jpeg

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 20 May 2019 09:47
by cowboyeagle05
Calling the crown jewel...well that's because the site is about as big as the crown jewel. I will be curious to see what they squeeze on this site.

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 20 May 2019 10:17
by Matt777
Guesses on what could go here? Since the lot is small, parking won't be abundant even if the go below ground and above ground. I'm thinking something with less parking needs like a tall, skinny lux condo tower? With like 2-4 residences per floor?

Pipe dream- an average of 3 residences per floor, all with ample outdoor patio space offering panoramic views, and 70 floors so it becomes the tallest residential building in Texas. 210 units. Or.... push it up to about 87 floors and ~260 units and make it the tallest building in Texas haha.

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 20 May 2019 10:47
by cowboyeagle05
The land could make for something unique and stunning for sure if they spend some serious money on the design. Parking elevator to cut down on the need for ramps.

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 20 May 2019 11:44
by lakewoodhobo
They don't need to reinvent the wheel. As a reminder, there were already plans in 2001 for a 10-story residential tower here. Of course, it should be much taller.

Image

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 20 May 2019 12:42
by Tivo_Kenevil
I like the homage to the crescent. I wouldn't mind something like this over here. There's to much glass IMO over here.

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 20 May 2019 14:56
by NdoorTX
lakewoodhobo wrote:They don't need to reinvent the wheel. As a reminder, there were already plans in 2001 for a 10-story residential tower here. Of course, it should be much taller.

Image


Love it! Bring it back...

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 20 May 2019 16:00
by Cbdallas
Ah yes 2001 back when Dallas thought it was Paris. Please do a pencil thin modern highrise not a faux past. Would be great to do a fresh modern take on the NYC Flat Iron building.

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 20 May 2019 16:12
by CTroyMathis
Just for fun, here's a really old idea for the site (I have some more saved somewhere. . .)

1899mckinneyavecondos003.gif
1899mckinneyavecondos002.gif
1899mckinneyavecondos001.gif
1899mckinney.jpg


This website: https://www.worldclassproperty.com/deve ... nneyavenue shows some previous ideas for the site.

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 20 May 2019 19:38
by I45Tex
My idea would be observing that Woodbine just bought the neighboring tower at 1845 Woodall Rodgers, which was an early local example of the parking podium tower (floors 9-17 are office, but below that its windows mask a garage). So make the first three or four floors of this site along McKinney something really special.

Then, because there are no tenants to block across the street, get City permission for the parking deck to form a ceiling for the streetfront retail that is architecturally tied in to its design. Think a Texas modern Sistine ceiling that actually spans the avenue at levels 5-8 -- continuous with 1845WR's existing decks 5-8.
1845WR could have the portion of the very large ninth floor amenity deck that falls on its property, and a negotiated portion of the new spaces in the connected garage, while the new tower has the rest.

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 26 Jun 2019 01:43
by NdoorTX
https://candysdirt.com/2019/06/25/exclu ... high-rise/
By: Jon Anderson

A little gem from Candysdirt. I know a few people on here we’re speculating after seeing the Rastegar signage.

Exclusive: Rastegar and SCB Preview Fab Lower McKinney Ave. High-Rise

Can Dallas have nice things? If this proposed project goes through, the answer is absolutely yes.

I get it, you’re immediately wondering what those green-walled balconies are running up the building. It’s a sneak peek at a proposed residential tower at 1899 McKinney designed by Chicago-based SCB Architecture for investor/developer Ari Rastegar of Rastegar Property Company – his first new-build in Dallas. Like the man, it’s ambitious architecture for Dallas. When I spoke with Rastegar and SCB principal Clara Wineberg, I imagined a conversation a resident might have explaining where they lived.

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 26 Jun 2019 01:46
by NdoorTX
BB36A7B6-FB8A-4383-885A-50488D9F8A5D.jpeg

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 26 Jun 2019 01:48
by NdoorTX
NdoorTX wrote:BB36A7B6-FB8A-4383-885A-50488D9F8A5D.jpeg


284FD503-7794-48DB-B022-F9AD3F5463E0.jpeg

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 26 Jun 2019 06:31
by tamtagon
NdoorTX wrote:https://candysdirt.com/2019/06/25/exclusive-rastegar-and-scb-preview-fab-lower-mckinney-ave-high-rise/
By: Jon Anderson

I’m guessing Rastegar and Wineberg won’t be invited to the annual developers’ Podium Parking Party and Barn Dance this year.


hahaha

Finally, Dallas has started scratching more than just the surface of it's potential.

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 26 Jun 2019 09:02
by jetnd87
Man this is very cool. Really hope the project makes it as shown. Also love Rastegar's quote about developers squeezing every penny at expense of good architecture. Hopefully they stay true to their word and vision!

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 26 Jun 2019 09:14
by Tnexster
Wow, this is a good one. All the parking is underground and if I am counting correctly it looks to be about 30 floors? Anybody else get that?

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 26 Jun 2019 09:52
by eburress
Tnexster wrote:Wow, this is a good one. All the parking is underground and if I am counting correctly it looks to be about 30 floors? Anybody else get that?


Such a gorgeous tower and yes, it sure looks like it's in the vicinity of 30 floors. :D

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 26 Jun 2019 15:06
by DPatel304
Wow, well this is a pleasant surprise if it does happen.

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 26 Jun 2019 17:12
by uptown74
https://candysdirt.com/wp-content/uploa ... ion-1.jpeg

are they really planning a merry-go-round on the Klyde Warren extension??

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 26 Jun 2019 17:33
by cowboyeagle05
uptown74 wrote:https://candysdirt.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Klyde-Warren-Extension-1.jpeg

are they really planning a merry-go-round on the Klyde Warren extension??


They don't have anything planned for the park extension they just threw that in there as a placeholder. The reality is they are trying to get funding for the additional decks without a clear vision or money to build out anything. They know they want the extra space but they don't have a clear use for it nor the funds to do anything more than a grass lawn. I am sure TXDOT also told them if they want that last deck they need to build it now. TXDOT doesn't want to shut down Woodall Rogers every ten years so Klyde Warren can add a new section.

My problem is building space with no real use designed for it is a big waste. They may very well have a future vision for it but since they don't have the funding they don't want to reveal but I doubt that.

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 01 Oct 2019 12:42
by Kelley USA
Small update with a slightly different rendering...

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... -exterior/

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 01 Oct 2019 14:16
by clcrash19
Man that looks great, would be a nice infill addition

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 01 Oct 2019 14:41
by Tnexster
LoMac is getting tight, 26 is a decent height but wish something on that end would punch it up to about 35.

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 01 Oct 2019 19:39
by tamtagon
^35, whatever, I want Texas Tallest.

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 02 Oct 2019 10:03
by hjkll
I’ve asked but why is everything in this area literally the exact same height? Is it FAA limits or zoning?

I wish this was taller

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 02 Oct 2019 10:06
by muncien
Based on the property footprint here, I think the hight makes perfect sense. Can't say the same for it's neighbors though. :)

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 02 Oct 2019 10:06
by dallaz
tamtagon wrote:^35, whatever, I want Texas Tallest.

Word

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 02 Oct 2019 11:07
by Tnexster
hjkll wrote:I’ve asked but why is everything in this area literally the exact same height? Is it FAA limits or zoning?

I wish this was taller


Drives me nuts, FAA limits should not be holding back height to this degree in this particular area.

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 02 Oct 2019 21:36
by Zmitz
https://candysdirt.com/2019/10/02/oak-l ... -projects/

The building will apparently operate as apartments for 10 years, then they are planning to combine units and convert everything to condos. Pretty exciting to see more condo options in more walkable areas.

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 02 Oct 2019 22:31
by dallaz
^^^thanks for posting

Well...this is the reason why it’s shorter

Yes, it got shorter – down to 316 feet. A nearby residential building asked that the building not blot out the sun.


Would have liked the additional height...even though it’s not much

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 03 Oct 2019 00:27
by DPatel304
Thanks for sharing. I'm also glad to see more condos become available in the area, even if they are 10 years away. Hopefully they will be more reasonably priced than the high-end condos we've seen being built lately.

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 04 Oct 2019 12:26
by Hannibal Lecter
DPatel304 wrote:Thanks for sharing. I'm also glad to see more condos become available in the area, even if they are 10 years away. Hopefully they will be more reasonably priced than the high-end condos we've seen being built lately.


I would think that their parking variance being allowed in part due to the building going to valet parking only when they go condo isn't a good sign of that. :-)

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 04 Oct 2019 13:50
by DPatel304
:D :D

I totally did not see that part of the article. Although, perhaps they are thinking ahead and realizing that autonomous cars are the future? Eventually cars will valet themselves and they don't plan to convert into condos for another decade, so it's not a stretch to think that a decent amount of cars will be able to drive themselves at that point.

Or I could be reading too much into it, and the reality is that they are definitely going for a more high-end market. :lol:

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 04 Oct 2019 17:41
by Cord1936
Image
Image courtesy of candysdirt.com

I for one am really getting sick and tired of buildings that are being bastardized by "committees" ... first was the Oak Lawn tower at Lemmon and Oak Lawn, now this one.

What is wrong with Dallas?

Can't we start seeing ourselves as the major metropolis that we really are and start letting taller and more dense developments fill our inner city core? With the region destined to overtake Chicago before 2030 as the third largest metro in the nation why can't Dallas start treating developments in the city core like a New York, LA, or Chicago would? Those cities have embraced taller with a vengeance ...

At a minimum this tower should have been allowed to be 700 feet or taller to begin with!

Instead of letting the developer go up and provide more landscaped open space around it, Dallas forces developers to go lower and more squat. Generally the same density is still there ... just not as appealing because the developer has been forced to squish the height and make the building shorter and fatter.

The zoning laws that are causing this, and their associated "committees", are simply out of date and need revised to promote greater height where possible in exchange for a guarantee by the developer to provide more landscaped public space surrounding the development to encourage greater street interaction and provide aesthetic amenities for the general population to enjoy.

And it is beyond high time that someone stand up to the FAA's height restrictions over areas that do not have a flight path directly over it!

The local FAA office that approves Dallas building heights is based in Ft. Worth ... not accusing Ft. Worth of jealousy or anything but one has to wonder if the old competition between the two cities is still not in play with the Ft. Worth FAA office seemingly always wanting to lower the height of whatever highrise or skyscraper building that is being proposed in Dallas.

Change zoning to allow and encourage much greater height in exchange for more landscaped open space surrounding the building, especially in the greater City Center, rezone areas where development has organically taken hold to allow greater height and density in exchange for landscaped public plazas (i.e. Preston Center and immediate nearby areas along Northwest Highway, the Galleria district, Stemmons corridor, Mockingbird Station, Northpark, LBJ/North Central interchange, and several other sections of the North Central corridor) to encourage mass transit to be implemented to those areas so they become economically feasible.

Rezone other areas such as the LBJ/Stemmons interchange for significant density to promote future dense developments there.

And some big boy (i.e. Harwood International with Harwood Forum) put the FAA in their place for Dallas' own future good!

Grow up Dallas (pardon the pun!) and act like the major metropolis we have become!

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 04 Oct 2019 18:28
by Zmitz
^ I couldn’t agree more with everything you said. It’d take a miracle for leadership to embrace the fact that we are playing catch up in our core area.

We have proved that we can do suburban very well, and it helped us grow as a metro to have cheap land to develop. Why not give true, high quality urban areas a shot?

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 15 Oct 2019 10:52
by jetnd87

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 15 Oct 2019 11:17
by cowboyeagle05
Sonder Corp., a San Francisco-based startup, will manage the 270 units in the planned Dallas building. Like its peers Domio Inc. and Lyric Hospitality Inc., Sonder markets itself as offering upscale apartments as an alternative to cookie-cutter hotel rooms.


Ari Rastegar, whose firm Rastegar Property Co. is developing Sonder’s planned Dallas building set to rise on a triangle-shaped lot, had been considering a luxury condominium project on the site.

But leasing the entire future project to Sonder for 10 years reduced risk, he said. He would have had to presell more than 50% of the units. Instead, Mr. Rastegar can charge market rents typical of new construction luxury rentals and has the option of selling in the future, he said.

He expects to secure more bank financing because one company holding the master lease for 10 years is more secure than leasing short-term to many tenants, Mr. Rastegar said.

“We de-risked the building with the 10-year lease, and that enabled us to secure phenomenal financing,” Mr. Rastegar said. “Within the first year it will be 100% occupied.”

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 15 Oct 2019 11:28
by muncien
This is a really interesting tactic... I really hope it works out so well that it brings other projects to fruition that can go condo later on. We need that desperately, and in today's world of having everything at your finger tips, presales years in advance just don't fly anymore.

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 15 Oct 2019 11:56
by DPatel304
muncien wrote:This is a really interesting tactic... I really hope it works out so well that it brings other projects to fruition that can go condo later on. We need that desperately, and in today's world of having everything at your finger tips, presales years in advance just don't fly anymore.


Yes, I'm glad to see these developments are getting a bit creative now, so I also hope this works out for them. Wasn't there also another development in the Uptown area that said they would start off as rentals and then convert into condos ten years down the line?

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 15 Oct 2019 12:45
by tamtagon
The VRBO I rented in Chicago recently was owned by Sonder....

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 15 Oct 2019 14:11
by clcrash19
I've stayed in one of these in Chicago and it was first class

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 15 Oct 2019 14:50
by cowboyeagle05
Certainly changes the staffing needs. Usually, you need a full leasing team to aggressively lease a project like this and then you reduce staff after the building fills up. Does that mean they will just have a concierge who knows he is basically working for a hotel kind of guest/resident? Mind you the back of the house for a luxury apartment building tends to be different than an apartment building. Wonder if that means a Property Manager and a concierge plus security, housekeepers and maintenance. Usually, most of the rental building hotels have a staff that just shows up when a guest leaves and the leasing staff keeps trying to lease around the hotel booked rooms who always have questions cause its new people all the time. I def have operational questions but its not a hard thing to imagine working out well.

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 15 Oct 2019 15:14
by I45Tex
Having looked at the Sonder job vacancies recruitment descriptions for cities like Atlanta my impression in the recent past was that their employees are not paid any better than hotel workers but are encouraged to have an ownership mentality, without the upside of earning ownership. While de-risking the developer in the eyes of banks, this sounds exactly like the way the We Company would have done things with a master lease. Unless Sonder is paying well in advance, there are few guarantees that all the risk they take on - having to fill the same building at the same or higher prices than this developer's initial ask, in any downturns - will go anywhere but right back into the owner's lap.

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 15 Oct 2019 16:04
by TNWE
Cord1936 wrote:
And it is beyond high time that someone stand up to the FAA's height restrictions over areas that do not have a flight path directly over it!

The local FAA office that approves Dallas building heights is based in Ft. Worth ... not accusing Ft. Worth of jealousy or anything but one has to wonder if the old competition between the two cities is still not in play with the Ft. Worth FAA office seemingly always wanting to lower the height of whatever highrise or skyscraper building that is being proposed in Dallas.

And some big boy (i.e. Harwood International with Harwood Forum) put the FAA in their place for Dallas' own future good!

Of all the paranoid conspiracy theories I've seen on this forum, "The FAA staffers who work in Fort Worth block high rise towers in Dallas out of pure spite and jealousy" might be the most insane.

The FAA is required by law to ensure that the land around an airport is free of obstacles over a certain height, both in normal operations, as well as in emergency situations. Just because a tower is "nowhere near a flight path" doesn't mean it isn't a risk to an aircraft with engine or flight control failure on takeoff.

The only way to "stand up" to the FAA and get taller buildings approved would be to close Love Field entirely, which didn't go over well when it was tried in the 70s. Ironically, the pro-Dallas factions at the time claimed that closing DAL and moving all commercial flights to DFW was *also* a case of Ft. Worth trying to unfairly hold Dallas back. (even though Dallas and Fort Worth had agreed to close their respective airports to commercial flights once DFW opened)

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 15 Oct 2019 19:28
by R1070
26 floors is good for that spot.

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 16 Oct 2019 13:51
by MC_ScattCat
All I want is a 1000' + tower. Is that so much to ask?

Re: Uptown Dallas: 1899 McKinney (McKinney/Akard/St. Paul Triangle)

Posted: 16 Oct 2019 15:07
by Cbdallas
Agreed at this rate Austin is building taller buildings all the while having even less density than Dallas does. Until this corporate campus concept goes out of favor I am afraid we are stuck with stubbies.