Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

In the discussion about neighborhood scale and parking and historic preservation, the views of downtown from any potential 5th floor roof top amenities deck needs consideration. And it's not just downtown views improving the sellability of Old East Dallas mid & highrises, Uptown has grown into a contiguous expansion of the skyline. Views have value and as Old East Dallas rises, Uptown real estate benefits as the Dallas skyline grows. Hopefully the Peak-Haskell Corridor will enact a competent and directive rezoning guide for all of East Dallas. Encouraging extra-hi density in some spots will allow other spots to remain low density while acting as the foundation of greater employment opportunities.

Also with the rumors of Uber wanting to make Deep Ellum there new hub they could lease space in this project as well...which if the city is trying to ensure incentives snag Uber you could see the city let this project get by if Uber has shown some favor here as well as the Epic project.

Interesting! I actually like this one a lot, potentially that is. If they do a good job of making this look like a historic building with a modern addition on top, kind of like what they are trying to do with the historic garage in the West End. But it all depends on the final outcome but it does have a lot of potential.

Sounds like this one is a go... Expected opening in early 2021.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... wn-dallas/

I like the updated design. Assuming we're looking at the same side, they now have a tier on top plus a diagonal corner, and they've eliminated that hideous blank wall on top of the parking structure.

Would make a nice office for companies supporting Uber.

Here's a website for the project that has some pretty cool photos...

https://stackdeepellum.com/

I actually had completely forgotten about this project. With Uber now entering the neighborhood, it's no surprise to see this one getting started.

I love this! Commerce already gets a lot of action, but The Stack is going to be a big visual draw pulling people on Main and Elm to walk over in that direction. Now if we could narrow Commerce, widen the sidewalks, and add more trees that would be fantastic.

Erick_g02 wrote:I love this! Commerce already gets a lot of action, but The Stack is going to be a big visual draw pulling people on Main and Elm to walk over in that direction. Now if we could narrow Commerce, widen the sidewalks, and add more trees that would be fantastic.

Weren't there talks of adding bike lanes on Commerce in Downtown and Deep Ellum? I havne't heard anything recently, so I wouldn't be surprised if that fell through, but it's a large enough street to where we certainly have some room to add some pedestrian improvements.

Erick_g02 wrote:I love this! Commerce already gets a lot of action, but The Stack is going to be a big visual draw pulling people on Main and Elm to walk over in that direction. Now if we could narrow Commerce, widen the sidewalks, and add more trees that would be fantastic.

Weren't there talks of adding bike lanes on Commerce in Downtown and Deep Ellum? I havne't heard anything recently, so I wouldn't be surprised if that fell through, but it's a large enough street to where we certainly have some room to add some pedestrian improvements.

Commerce is slated for a full reconstruction, similar to Elm, that will reduce the number of travel lanes and widen sidewalks. Proposals for bike lanes were not supported by the community and were removed from the project.

Would be better to have a streetcar on Commerce. That aside, i love the bottom portion, but the top is like a sudden kick. Wish they'd go with a more uniformed aesthetic.

Commerce is a great streetcar opportunity.

^ Not if you live or work on Commerce. It's bad enough we've got put up with the DART rail.

Besides, the last I checked railed vehicles aren't good at getting around double-parked delivery trucks, Uber and Grubhub pick-ups, or beer bikes moving at 2 MPH.

That's why you create delivery zones in commercial areas like Deep Ellum cities all over the world do it and regular delivery drivers learn how to operate real easily in urban areas. It's not rocket science nor would Dallas be the first city in the entire history of time have to balance traffic, transit, deliveries, people, etc.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:That's why you create delivery zones in commercial areas like Deep Ellum cities all over the world do it and regular delivery drivers learn how to operate real easily in urban areas. It's not rocket science nor would Dallas be the first city in the entire history of time have to balance traffic, transit, deliveries, people, etc.

Of course Hannibal knows that. He's one of the few but vocal anti-urban posters on here trying to push the agenda of the status quo (read: car-centric, suburban-oriented development with a splash of NIMBYism). But at the same time, does he really think he can fool us on an URBAN forum?

My perception is that disagreements here are disagreements about strategy-- that since most of central Dallas' century-old urban streetscapes are gone now, and are not already newly springing up everywhere like we'd fantasize, H.L. doesn't believe that reinventing/adulterating the main remaining prototype is the way to encourage urban life to start springing up elsewhere throughout the core again.

^ Very well said, I45Tex.

What a number of people on this forum forget is that Deep Ellum is a living, breathing neighborhood with hundreds of residents and small businesses. This isn't a game of Sim City, where if you screw something up you can hit DELETE and start over. We have to live with the consequences, while the armchair quarterbacks turn their attention to the next hot neighborhood.

A bus is the best public transportation to get people in and around the central Dallas neighborhoods. Oak Lawn to Fair Park, Lower Greenville to Bishop Arts would generally show the maximum trip times for getting around on a bus; the a vintage streetcar or a newfangled batter-powered streetcar is an expensive piece of flair but still work, and does much of the Public Relations and advertising duties to get visitors spending money. Deep Ellum certainly does not need a streetcar, but the novelty of a line from Union Station to Fair Park would pay off for sure.

"Fair" enough tamtagon, and not to stray off-topic, but if that second line from Union Station would hypothetically be like the current Streetcar line -- with no fee, and running 5:30am-12:00am daily -- then an investment instead in a second line with that same length of track but from Union Station to Dallas Market Center, via Reunion, Riverfront, and Market Center Boulevards, would pay for itself in new development MORE. The 63 bus doesn't seem to be a catalyst.

DBJ version....

Multinational development team bringing new office tower to Deep Ellum

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... ellum.html

Pre-construction on the project has already begun while a groundbreaking ceremony is slated for early December. While this is the first time the three companies have all worked together on one project, Hines and Ivanhoé Cambridge are currently in pre-development for another creative office building in Denver’s RiNo neighborhood.

The property is now closed and fenced/barricaded off.

The existing restaurants between this site and Crowdus are going to be hurting during construction. Some have been there 20-30 years. I doubt all of them will survive.

Change is hard.

16 stories... This will dominate Deep Ellumm.

I like it! Get 'er done!

I love it.

Awesome, super excited to see this one go up!

Not new renderings. They've been out for awhile.

This probably won't go down as the last nail in the coffin for Deep Ellum. But we're getting close.

Hannibal Lecter wrote:Not new renderings. They've been out for awhile.

This probably won't go down as the last nail in the coffin for Deep Ellum. But we're getting close.

What would constitute "death" for Deep Ellum?

Regardless of what you think of the current Deep Ellum, I think it's safe to say that it may have finally broken the boom/bust cycle it seemed to go through time and time again, which is a great thing.

I have said it before but Deep Ellum is going to become like the West Loop area of Chicago with a cool mix of office living and funk and tech. It is all good. We are no longer the sleepy little city on the prairie.

Cbdallas wrote:I have said it before but Deep Ellum is going to become like the West Loop area of Chicago with a cool mix of office living and funk and tech. It is all good. We are no longer the sleepy little city on the prairie.

Ugh and majority of the city avoids that area. My office is over there and I absolutely dread when I have to go in for meetings

Cmacemm wrote:Ugh and majority of the city avoids that area. My office is over there and I absolutely dread when I have to go in for meetings

Why is that?

Cbdallas wrote:I have said it before but Deep Ellum is going to become like the West Loop area of Chicago with a cool mix of office living and funk and tech. It is all good. We are no longer the sleepy little city on the prairie.

Tend to agree, I am excited to see what this area evolves into.

I'll never forget the first time I saw the Epic while driving down Elm into downtown. For the first time, it looked like downtown was "connected" to Deep Ellum. All the residential coming to DE is exciting, but i'm looking forward to The Stack the most. It'll make that immediate split between DE and Downtown appear to literally "vanish", similar to the Epic but on a smaller scale.

Picture the street level view heading West on Commerce:

DPatel304 wrote:

Cmacemm wrote:Ugh and majority of the city avoids that area. My office is over there and I absolutely dread when I have to go in for meetings

Why is that?

It's just such a congested mess all the time. Driving and parking over there are horrible. They keep shooting up meter prices. I paid around $28 for 4 hours at a meter a few weeks ago. Maybe I am over exaggerating a bit, but while I used to enjoy going out there 3 years ago, it's been over flooded with reservation only type dining options, food halls, and too much over priced housing (which i guess isn't really a bad thing considering it used to be meat packing factories) but it's lost it's edge. As a yuppie myself, it's absolute yuppie hell. I have some friends that work at a barber shop/bar over there and I'll go hang out sometimes and I must say, they do have some good coffee shops hahah

mrmandalay wrote:All the residential coming to DE is exciting, but i'm looking forward to The Stack the most. It'll make that immediate split between DE and Downtown appear to literally "vanish", similar to the Epic but on a smaller scale.

And with that 17-story development in the East Quarter on the way, it should all start feeling more like a continuous urban landscape from downtown to deep ellum.

Cmacemm wrote:

DPatel304 wrote:

Cmacemm wrote:Ugh and majority of the city avoids that area. My office is over there and I absolutely dread when I have to go in for meetings

Why is that?

It's just such a congested mess all the time. Driving and parking over there are horrible. They keep shooting up meter prices. I paid around $28 for 4 hours at a meter a few weeks ago. Maybe I am over exaggerating a bit, but while I used to enjoy going out there 3 years ago, it's been over flooded with reservation only type dining options, food halls, and too much over priced housing (which i guess isn't really a bad thing considering it used to be meat packing factories) but it's lost it's edge. As a yuppie myself, it's absolute yuppie hell. I have some friends that work at a barber shop/bar over there and I'll go hang out sometimes and I must say, they do have some good coffee shops hahah

Thanks for the insight! It actually sounds like the area is a huge success, although not quite everyone's cup of tea.

I definitely think Deep Ellum is on the same trajectory as this area. Personally, I'm pretty excited to see what the future holds for the area, but I can understand why not everyone is as thrilled as I am.

Already working on the second level.

It's starting to poke its head up.

From KDC's Epic II webcam:

maconahey wrote:From KDC's Epic II webcam:

Progress on the stack lots of activity on site and all along commerce street from downtown to deep ellum as of 4/23/2020

Glad people are out taking pics, been away from downtown for so long I'm sure I will be amazed how much has changed when we finally go back.

So based on the KDC cam view this looks like they are moving past the garage phase and just starting to work on the office tower phase.

Losing our view of Pegasus today.

For one of the ugliest buildings ever conceived.

I understand why you say so Hannibal but this is not the ugliest building conceived. That Hampton Inn on goat hill they call a luxury apartment building is pretty awful and I personally think Richards Group new HQ is also pretty bad. Both examples I am sure someone disagrees with.

The Crowne Plaza Hotel is hands down the ugliest building in Dallas.

^Sounds like a good submission. Buildings only a mama could love.