Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Hotel is by far the best use because it requires the least amount of parking. I'm not even sure why anyone thought office was a good idea when you have to compete with Plano and Frisco parking ratios.

Tnexster wrote:

j_d_p wrote:

Cbdallas wrote:Does anyone know what is taking the old Cedar Grove restaurant space on the corner of the Ilume building. work is taking place inside.

Looks like the subdivided the space into two. There is still a lot of leftover furniture inside though so unsure if there is any tenant actually moving in or they are just re-marketing it as two separate spaces.

What happened to that restaurant? Seemed like it blew up into a big deal and then disappeared almost overnight.

I think I was wrong about subdividing this. They did some work to re-do the front by installing new glass and adding a gated off patio. The inside looks like they had been doing work for a few weeks with just simply cleaning and stripping down the interior but it once again has been sitting idle. No clue if this ever turns into something occupied.

Its supposedly going to be an Italian restaurant concept of some sort. I can't remember the name but they do have a lease which is why all the remodeling has been going on.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Its supposedly going to be an Italian restaurant concept of some sort. I can't remember the name but they do have a lease which is why all the remodeling has been going on.

I’ve heard that Mario’s is relocating here from 5404 Lemmon. Hope it’s true since I really like that restaurant.

Oh wow. Mario’s is very popular with the Oak Lawn crowd.

Yeah, a friend just last night showed me a circulating screenshot of some transfer paperwork for Marios moving from Lemmon to the Cedar Grove spot.

lakewoodhobo wrote:

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Its supposedly going to be an Italian restaurant concept of some sort. I can't remember the name but they do have a lease which is why all the remodeling has been going on.

I’ve heard that Mario’s is relocating here from 5404 Lemmon. Hope it’s true since I really like that restaurant.

Love Mario's, hope they get a great spot.

So they appeared to have finished the new "plaza" in front of Hunky's. They didn't do any decorative work on the concrete its basically just a giant median. Perfect for anti-gay protesting but not much good for anything else. I mean the project isn't over but I know some of the people who were involved with the Mayor on the project and why am I not surprised its the most basic project. Those involved were anti any of the new ideas about streets and walkability for Dallas so they pushed the money into half-hearted solutions and only cared about rainbow crosswalks. Vanity based projects.

I am not against rainbow crosswalks but they aren't real solutions for the safety and security of the neighborhood like proper street design and redo would have been.

What is it about the residents here that make them so anti-urban?

I think its more of a fear of change than a true fight against urban. They all want to see their neighborhoods flourish and be overall attractive but they rarely want to see the change that challenges their current understanding of what is working. Its the same thing driving every street redo conversation anywhere. Assumptions lead lots of these conversations and city staff are instructed to work at the publics' request and if the public who is participating refuses to accept a new idea and the staff is unsuccessfully explaining the theories, facts, and concepts then we get more of the same old stuff.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:So they appeared to have finished the new "plaza" in front of Hunky's. They didn't do any decorative work on the concrete its basically just a giant median. Perfect for anti-gay protesting but not much good for anything else. I mean the project isn't over but I know some of the people who were involved with the Mayor on the project and why am I not surprised its the most basic project. Those involved were anti any of the new ideas about streets and walkability for Dallas so they pushed the money into half-hearted solutions and only cared about rainbow crosswalks. Vanity based projects.

I am not against rainbow crosswalks but they aren't real solutions for the safety and security of the neighborhood like proper street design and redo would have been.

Yeah this project is very underwhelming. Will they at least re-pave the street near the end of the project? And aren't the rainbow crosswalks not even a sure-thing if they dont raise a minimum amount from private donors?

https://fundrazr.com/DallasCrosswalkPro ... cnUIjWPr5v

The space is a bit bland, but maybe the neighborhood can spice it up with local art or painted boxed plants?

What is interesting is I have not seen a single public event promoted to help raise funds and awareness for the crosswalk project. People keep asking me because they know I care about this stuff but I have not seen the org charged with the fundraising do any sort of major public outreach besides one article mentioned above. Maybe I am too out of the loop. I am assuming they are just pushing on their GLBT Business Association membership to fill in the funding gap and ignore pennies that would come from bar patrons for example. A drag show event etc could raise $1,000 at least depending on who leads the charge. Such an event could encourage a big donor to make a public check presentation to buy their Equal Rights credit with the target market.

Just last night the drag show I was at was asking where are our damn rainbow crosswalks cause most people are confused about what is going on.

R1070 wrote:The space is a bit bland, but maybe the neighborhood can spice it up with local art or painted boxed plants?

It's a shame the business owners in this area were so opposed to having a total new street design here. I went to a birthday party at Mattito's a few weeks ago. It was an early Saturday evening around 7:00 and I parked over by the Kroger and just walked down the strip to the Centrum. In comparison to the couple of blocks of Greenville Avenue I had come from, man, did that area look sad. It was far from lively and looked a little worn..even when I walked back to my car around 10. I guess I never realized how much the "strip" is in need of rejuvenation.

vman wrote:It's a shame the business owners in this area were so opposed to having a total new street design here. I went to a birthday party at Mattito's a few weeks ago. It was an early Saturday evening around 7:00 and I parked over by the Kroger and just walked down the strip to the Centrum. In comparison to the couple of blocks of Greenville Avenue I had come from, man, did that area look sad. It was far from lively and looked a little worn..even when I walked back to my car around 10. I guess I never realized how much the "strip" is in need of rejuvenation.

It's crazy how little this area has changed compared to the rest of Dallas over the past decade. A few bars/restaurants have cycled in and out, but the overall look/feel of this strip still feels very much the same, which isn't a good thing. I also hate that the interior of the bars just feel very dated as well.

BTW Panda's finally closed on the 10th aka Monday. So we will see what Caven Enterprises does with space now. Its roof is lower than it may seem but shares its ceiling height with the bar behind the DJ in Station 4. Gives them a chance to do any number of major remodels to S4 or they may just wait for someone to lease a restaurant there that does a similar type of late-night food. Either way, both spaces leak like crazy every time it rains.

uptown74 wrote:And aren't the rainbow crosswalks not even a sure-thing if they dont raise a minimum amount from private donors?

https://fundrazr.com/DallasCrosswalkPro ... cnUIjWPr5v

The rainbow crosswalks are officially funded. Looks like that Fundrazr campaign was to see how much they could get in addition to what they had pledged in private.

LGBT Chamber presents city with check for rainbow crosswalks
https://dallasvoice.com/lgbt-chamber-pr ... rosswalks/

Those upgrades to the neighborhood is being paid for by bond money. The crosswalks will be the last pieces installed and are entirely funded by donations.

Among the other corporate donors to the project are AT&T, Southwest Airlines, Andrews Distributing, Ben E. Keith Distributing, Comerica Bank, The Dallas Morning News, Oncor, Texas Instruments, Billingsley Co. and Beacon Advertising. Neighborhood businesses that contributed include The Hidden Door/Anthony Bobrow Trust, Hunky’s, Italia Express, The Round-Up Saloon and Street’s Fine Chicken. Visit Dallas, Communities Foundation of Texas and the Dallas Foundation and the Dallas Tavern Guild were among the organizations that donated to the crosswalk fund. A number of individual donors also contributed to the project.

Ah, I thought they had to be quietly fundraising behind the scenes. There is lots of pride for the rainbow crosswalks despite its real impact on the road safety.

Construction along Cedar Springs that includes new landscaping, new sidewalks, markers at each end of the entertainment district, new traffic lights and more began earlier this year and is scheduled to continue through the fall. Those upgrades to the neighborhood is being paid for by bond money. The crosswalks will be the last pieces installed and are entirely funded by donations.

Notice the biggest donors were Caven who runs Station 4(S4), Jr's Bar & Grill, Sue Ellen's and TMC and The Cedar Springs Merchant Association which is separate from the Dallas Tavern Guild.

That's some expensive paint. Could they not have installed colored tiles/bricks for $128k? Which would be way longer lasting than paint?

It’s a different process than just painting the roadway. It’s a long term option and a much better investment.

R1070 wrote:It’s a different process than just painting the roadway. It’s a long term option and a much better investment.

‘Long term” until a pothole or utility repair is needed and they go back to good ole asphalt

R1070 wrote:It’s a different process than just painting the roadway. It’s a long term option and a much better investment.

Interesting. Can you tell us more? What is the process?

It’s the same pressing process that was used at the McKinney/Lemmon crosswalk. It lasts much longer.

I attended the Cedar Springs Wine Walk last night and was talking to one of the store owners on the strip. I have no idea how reliable this information is, but I was told that ~$30,000 from the Wine Walk fund went towards this crosswalk.

I knew the money raised from the wine walks were being reinvested back into the neighborhood, I just didn't know specfically how, so it was kinda cool to hear that.

Did they delay the Wine Walk? Usually the first Wednesday of the month. I assume the weather was bad last Wednesday. Good to hear that event contributed to this cause.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Did they delay the Wine Walk? Usually the first Wednesday of the month. I assume the weather was bad last Wednesday. Good to hear that event contributed to this cause.

Yeah, the weather was pretty bad last Wednesday, so it was delayed a week.

Just heard a rumor that Mia's is moving to the old Buzzbrews building on Lemmon. If true then maybe they can grab surrounding property around the old space and build something more substantial. Lemmon is so stuck in the old Dallas of the 1970's really could use some new denser taller development and get rid of those old strip centers.

I drove past that old this weekend and thought, “I hope they tear down this eyesore.” As soon as I thought it, I knew that would never happen. Not on Lemmon.

If this Mia’s rumor is true, it will probably actually work for them. The parking at both locations is nightmarish. At least valets can learn to optimize the semi underground at Buzzbrews. Since Mia’s is such a destination restaurant, people prolly won’t mind the awkward design of the building

Win-win if true!

Cbdallas wrote:Just heard a rumor that Mia's is moving to the old Buzzbrews building on Lemmon. If true then maybe they can grab surrounding property around the old space and build something more substantial. Lemmon is so stuck in the old Dallas of the 1970's really could use some new denser taller development and get rid of those old strip centers.

Here's an article on said rumor:
https://www.dmagazine.com/food-drink/20 ... -are-here/

I'd love for something more substantial built here, but my expectations are always very low when it comes to Oak Lawn, especially anything on Lemmon Ave.

I completely agree with you about it being stuck in the 1970s, unfortunately it seems like the businesses here do really well, so I don't really see that changing. So many people love living in the city, but don't want to actually live the lifestyle and walk/bike/bus places, which is likely why these suburban-style buildings and their surface parking spaces do so well here.

Cbdallas wrote:Lemmon is so stuck in the old Dallas of the 1970's really could use some new denser taller development and get rid of those old strip centers.

I miss the funky old houses on Lemmon, or at least the handful that were left at the turn of the century. If we had torn them down for something urban it might have been worth it, but what replaced these homes really set us back.

lakewoodhobo wrote:I miss the funky old houses on Lemmon, or at least the handful that were left at the turn of the century. If we had torn them down for something urban it might have been worth it, but what replaced these homes really set us back.

Add the Avon apartment building to the list, replaced by a parking lot for the ugly Verizon store on the corner.

OrangeMike wrote:

lakewoodhobo wrote:I miss the funky old houses on Lemmon, or at least the handful that were left at the turn of the century. If we had torn them down for something urban it might have been worth it, but what replaced these homes really set us back.

Add the Avon apartment building to the list, replaced by a parking lot for the ugly Verizon store on the corner.

Sad, mostly replaced by drive-thrus.

And nearby on Oak Lawn Ave, the mixed-use group of old houses that the Oak Lawn Committee gleefully allowed a zoning variance so Starbucks could build a drive-thru which as expected, is causing accidents and massive traffic problems nearly every morning. I live very close by and have seen the line to get into that Starbucks take up an entire line of traffic straight thru the Congress intersection and straight down Oak Lawn to the 7-Eleven. Do these people really have time to sit in their cars for an hour to wait for very mediocre coffee?

Imagine if we had small coffee shops on most corners, with no parking lots or drive-thrus, that people could quickly walk over to, grab their coffee, and then commute to work. The OLC has very different priorities which is more surface parking, more drive-thrus, so they don't have to get off their (aging) as**s as much or walk around an electric scooter.

I know this is an unpopular opinion, I think the location of the airport and all the dealerships will always yield a low density neighborhood down lemmon once you get west of Turtle Creek.

From a friend on Twitter

Get ready for all the crosswalk selfies. It is going to be unsafe for awhile because people will want to take all kinds of pics in the crosswalk.

I thought this was supposed to be done near the end of the project. Are they almost finished?

Yes, all they did was redo do a few updated disabled ramps at the corners...only thing really left is the new traffic light at Knight.

The city wanted to redo the street similar to Lower Greenville but plan things out better for the businesses so to not disturb traffic patterns less while things were under construction but the people who showed up at the meeting in the Rose Room a few years ago said no to everything the city was offering. Most of the money allocated for the proposed project was reassigned to other projects since they refused all proposals. Later some "community leaders" worked with the city to do some safety improvements with what money was leftover. The one thing the city does not do is argue with the gayborhood. Once you start arguing with the gaybourhood in turns into a big thing.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Yes, all they did was redo do a few updated disabled ramps at the corners...only thing really left is the new traffic light at Knight.

The city wanted to redo the street similar to Lower Greenville but plan things out better for the businesses so to not disturb traffic patterns less while things were under construction but the people who showed up at the meeting in the Rose Room a few years ago said no to everything the city was offering. Most of the money allocated for the proposed project was reassigned to other projects since they refused all proposals. Later some "community leaders" worked with the city to do some safety improvements with what money was leftover. The one thing the city does not do is argue with the gayborhood. Once you start arguing with the gaybourhood in turns into a big thing.

...then they wonder why on most any given beautiful weekend afternoon, The Strip is the deadest entertainment district in the city. How long can those gay bars survive when most of them are living off one good night a week?

What is interesting is RoundUp is packed every Friday and Saturday night and busy most of the week but the owners still haven't been able to sell it. Price too high I assume.

Also, Club Pegasus and Magnum closed. Rumor is that Zippers is not far behind and Tin Room is planning to move since there is residential development going up across from them finally. If Tin Room moves most likely they will close shortly after.

The gay bars are rapidly shrinking for sure in number. S4 is planning a major redo last I heard...

One thing that most don't realize is that Caven owns the property and the buildings they operate in along with various other parcels in the neighborhood. So Station 4, JR's, TMC and Sue Ellens aren't feeling the pressure to change anything since they don't have to answer to anyone.

I was hoping new traffic lights would go up at the Crossroads as well. The current ones are so old.

I heard Roy G's is open and that they have some old menu items from Snookie's on Oak Lawn.

Yes, they are open they have been open since Wednesday.

"We're bringing back Snookie's favorites like the OG cheese fries, fried mushrooms, and the Hickory burger," Mariel says. "Oh, and the Frozen Electric Lemonade."

Snookie's fried mushrooms, served with horseradish sauce and ranch dressing, were a cult favorite, and the electric lemonade was considered to be one of the prettiest drinks in its day, thanks to the beachy tint of its blue curaçao.

Roy G's will be open late until 2 or even 3 am on weekends and midnight on weekdays.

I’m surprised the Knight and Reagan streets weren’t included.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Yes, all they did was redo do a few updated disabled ramps at the corners...

And now some of the ramps will be redesigned and rebuilt.

Actually, not just ramps—basically everything at the Crossroads corner except for the filled-in parking spaces will be redone, according to the Voice article I linked below. This seems like some really basic steps of the design process were completely botched.


City begins installing rainbow crosswalks

The bump-outs narrow the street to make crossing on foot safer. But they have also made it harder for drivers to turn and are being redesigned. Also being redesigned are the sidewalk ramps at Throckmorton and Cedar Springs. Vedda said they were laid out poorly, and, he added, he’s not sure what they will eventually look like.

They aren't designed wrong people don't like change and people race down Cedar Springs Rd and turn like crazy as well. The narrower design would work if the whole street was redesigned like the city wanted to do. The problem is the businesses still think four lanes of high-speed cars are better than three lanes with a center turn lane. Four lanes back up more traffic during rush hour than three lanes with a center turn lane would. Plus it would cause a natural slowing of cars for safety as well as force drivers to actually notice what they are racing past. Instead, we got a narrow turn on one side of Throckmorton as cars speed down Cedar Springs and try to high tail it around those corners like its Nascar.

The ramps certainly don't seem to have been designed well. These look like they might cause someone in a wheelchair—as soon as they have crossed the street, steered through the bollards, and are off the pavement—to have to make awkward turns to get up the ramps. Especially on the Hunky's corner, there was plenty of room to build something with a wider ramp and larger area of slope.



As far as the road diet is concerned, I'd prefer it be implemented (with bike lanes added) on the four lanes of high-speed cars that careen through the almost entirely residential (plus a school and a park) and increasingly dense section of Cedar Springs from Wycliff to Inwood.

They do seem to be designed poorly and if someone is waiting at a red light in a vehicle there, another car doesn’t have space to turn onto Throckmorton. Traffic has been backing up.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Four lanes back up more traffic during rush hour than three lanes with a center turn lane would.

Get stuck behind a DART bus on Matilda from Ross Avenue to Mockingbird and see if you still think that.

Does anyone know why windows are being removed from the space above Steel (and around the corner on Hall) at the Centrum?