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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 25 Apr 2018 14:06
by lakewoodhobo
DPatel304 wrote:That's a ton of public parking, but, aside from that, the project looks great, and I'm so excited to see this area really transform over the next few years.

I hope with this additional parking, it means perhaps some of the surface parking could be eliminated in the future.


Remember that this parking is also for the 42,000 sqft of retail under construction outside of the 12,000 here. My hope is that there's adequate street lighting and a general perception of safety so that people feel comfortable parking on Tenth or even Sunset to walk to Bishop Arts.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 25 Apr 2018 14:15
by ericthegardener
Of all the projects happening in the Bishop Arts area, this one by the Nazerian family is the one I am most excited about. I think they did a great job on the couple of small buildings we've already seen.

There is one building they have already started, on the north side Melba I believe, that will have a pitched roof from the looks of the steel girders that are already up. Anyone know what that will be?

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 25 Apr 2018 15:03
by lakewoodhobo
ericthegardener wrote:There is one building they have already started, on the north side Melba I believe, that will have a pitched roof from the looks of the steel girders that are already up. Anyone know what that will be?


Hard to tell what is what on their website, but maybe it's this:

Screen Shot 2018-04-25 at 3.00.34 PM.jpg

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 25 Apr 2018 15:25
by ericthegardener
Art Garden? Cool! That certainly looks like that could be it. Thanks for digging around to find that!

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 26 Apr 2018 08:52
by cowboyeagle05
Now longtime property owner Exxir Capital is pushing ahead with residential, retail and public spaces in the second phase of the project.


What I am confused by is the Phases in this development. I saw the "second phase" mentioned in the article but in previous documents that was the larger site to the south of the site currently underconstruction. So what land are they starting on reffered to in the above article?
Screen Shot 2018-04-26 at 8.51.59 AM.png

Screen Shot 2018-04-26 at 8.49.42 AM.png

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 27 Apr 2018 15:37
by Dettmann1
The graphics you mention are pretty out of date and the project has grown in scope since those were done. Based off the article the current phases are as follows:
Phase 1: the buildings on both sides of bishop from Melba to 9th. On the east side of Bishop, it's just the initial building adjacent to the street. The buildings NE of Melba and Bishop from Bishop to Midblock where Bishop Highline Starts.

Phase 2: Apartments and Retail east of the initial building on the east side of Bishop between Melba and 9th.

Future Phase: areas south of there.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the area they own grow as they have continued to buy land over time.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 30 May 2018 21:05
by ericthegardener
Perhaps it's because I drive by it almost every single day and I'm more interested in this development than most, but does the brickwork on the Crescent development in Bishop Arts seem a little shoddy? I'm talking about the southeastern-most building with the light tan bricks. I'm probably just looking too hard, but the brickwork doesn't seem as uniform as I'd expect it to be. I should probably wait to judge until it's a bit further along, but it's bugging me.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 02 Jun 2018 09:26
by Tnexster
North Oak Cliff Development Update: Several Projects Close to Closing Phase 1

https://candysdirt.com/2018/06/01/your- ... te-part-1/

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 02 Jun 2018 10:43
by eburress
That was a great update - thanks for posting!

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 02 Jun 2018 12:57
by hjkll
What I hope is more and more single family homes and small empty lots are replaced with small 3-4 story apartment buildings and townhouses instead of full block donut monolithic structures. We literally do not need anymore bland stucco donut courtyard buildings. I hope developers here think granular, small, dense and mixed use so Bishop Arts can become our answer to South Beach in Miami, Silver Lake in Los Angeles, or Williamsburg in Brooklyn.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 02 Jun 2018 16:32
by ericthegardener
Tnexster wrote:North Oak Cliff Development Update: Several Projects Close to Closing Phase 1

https://candysdirt.com/2018/06/01/your- ... te-part-1/


Great article! As a resident of a nearby neighborhood we need something like that for Oak Cliff quarterly.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 04 Jun 2018 11:03
by lakewoodhobo
Tnexster wrote:North Oak Cliff Development Update: Several Projects Close to Closing Phase 1

https://candysdirt.com/2018/06/01/your- ... te-part-1/


Even though Zang & Davis is the most visually drastic change here, I'm more interested in the way that the medical district and support/recovery services surrounding 10th and Madison are vanishing almost overnight. Just about everything between 10th and Sunset is now susceptible to superblock development except where things like the library branch or a church stand in the way. This block in particular is almost entirely medical and pharmacy use, so I imagine it's the one most in danger of being razed entirely.

Screen Shot 2018-06-04 at 11.00.37 AM.jpg


To be honest, that's probably a good thing but there are one or two small midcentury buildings here that I would like to see saved.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 04 Jun 2018 11:48
by exelone31
Yes, that article is awesome! I didn't realize there was so much additional development planned aside from what's already in progress.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 04 Jun 2018 14:30
by dallaz
I’m all for redevelopment, but I hope some of the historic homes are preserved and restored. It seems like developers are completely tearing down everything just to build more apartments. As an Oak Cliff native, I don’t want to see people who’ve lived in Oak Cliff for years displaced because of gentrification. Honestly, that’s worrisome for many in North Oak Cliff.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 04 Jun 2018 17:39
by Tivo_Kenevil
dallaz wrote:I’m all for redevelopment, but I hope some of the historic homes are preserved and restored. It seems like developers are completely tearing down everything just to build more apartments. As an Oak Cliff native, I don’t want to see people who’ve lived in Oak Cliff for years displaced because of gentrification. Honestly, that’s worrisome for many in North Oak Cliff.


Sigh... I'm still mad at losing El corazón for a cvs....

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 04 Jun 2018 18:34
by dallaz
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
dallaz wrote:I’m all for redevelopment, but I hope some of the historic homes are preserved and restored. It seems like developers are completely tearing down everything just to build more apartments. As an Oak Cliff native, I don’t want to see people who’ve lived in Oak Cliff for years displaced because of gentrification. Honestly, that’s worrisome for many in North Oak Cliff.


Sigh... I'm still mad at losing El corazón for a cvs....
Same here. I pass by that CVS often and get upset everytime.

I just wish more people were concerned about historic preservation. If anyone have actually spent time in North Oak Cliff and seen the older commercial structures and homes...they would see they are worth preserving. Yes, they are in various states of disrepair...but buildings are NOT built like that anymore. At the least, let’s keep some of the older structures and not tear everything down for new urbanist development.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 04 Jun 2018 19:37
by anon
I'm shocked at how much those townhomes cost. Half a million??!! I hope that doesn't become the norm for this area as it has in East Dallas by Henderson.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 04 Jun 2018 20:58
by R1070
CVS has been the absolute worst neighbor in Central Dallas. How they put zero thought into any type of urbanity outside of actual downtown Dallas completely blows my mind. The West Village location is the ugliest new development I've seen in my 9 years in this city. How they got away with putting the rear of the building along McKinney Ave and the city was fine with that, still amazes me.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 05 Jun 2018 09:22
by cowboyeagle05
They don't get any pressure to change. The OakCliff location was the most press they have gotten for a store and the way they develop stores allows them to be mute to the noise of the neighborhood. City Hall is only mildly bothered by the development. Notice how when Headington tore down those historic buildings downtown during a Cowboys game the council jumped into action creating a teardown buffer regulation. CVS Bishop Arts basically pissed off one council member while the rest I am sure are now jealous of the quality of the store they did build with the brick and decorative corner thing they built.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 05 Jun 2018 21:16
by cruzch
Sorry folks Oak Cliff will not become the next Austin - it will become the new uptown.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 05 Jun 2018 21:23
by DPatel304
^What's the difference? :)

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 05 Jun 2018 23:23
by eburress
Austin's Uptownification has been happening for some time now, so yeah, what's the difference? lol

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 06 Jun 2018 03:33
by jrd1964
"Uptownification"...
I have a strange feeling that word will be used much more than once on this forum in the future, depending on the development trends around here.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 06 Jun 2018 07:24
by dallaz
jrd1964 wrote:"Uptownification"...
I have a strange feeling that word will be used much more than once on this forum in the future, depending on the development trends around here.

That’s my exact thoughts....and that’s what I’m afraid of.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 06 Jun 2018 08:06
by cowboyeagle05
Well, you need to clearly define what the Uptownfication is. I mean if you are going to use it as a derogative phrase to describe development patterns in more than one city let alone part of Dallas I think it is only right to start giving the terms boundaries. What it is and what it is not. I am just saying since it seems anytime any part of town gets any positive development it feels like it gets labeled derogative-ly as Uptownified.

I also want to point out there are a lot of good parts of Uptown like State Thomas which some may argue is not Uptown but my point being State Thomas is a beautiful urban area of townhomes and apartments with wide sidewalks, well lit, lots of trees and landscape and pockets of commercial space for bars and things like wedding dress shops and the like. Its quiet mostly is a mixture of ownership and rental. While not every building in State Thomas is a jewel there is lots of charming brick architecture some more classic others contemporary.

I would certainly love to see more State Thomas like neighborhoods in Dallas.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 06 Jun 2018 09:35
by tamtagon
I'm pretty certain Bishop Arts be more like Lower Greenville than Uptown -- and taking a turn for the better by bringing on many of the cool things that got shut out of Lower Greenville.

Kessler and Kidd Springs are going to get real expensive. Watch out.

Trinity Groves through West Dallas will be more like Oak Lawn-Uptown-Design District than Lower Greenville.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 06 Jun 2018 15:26
by Tivo_Kenevil
^^I agree. Oak Cliff will be more akin to LG.

but why so much disdain towards uptown?

That's arguably the best part of the urban core..why wouldn't you NOT want more of that!

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 06 Jun 2018 18:27
by anon
ehhhhh saying uptown is the best part of the urban core is really debatable.


but I'm really excited for the Azucar ice cream shop coming! I had it in Miami and it was wonderful! It'll highlight Dallas' growing Latino diversity.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 06 Jun 2018 19:01
by eburress
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:^^I agree. Oak Cliff will be more akin to LG.

but why so much disdain towards uptown?

That's arguably the best part of the urban core..why wouldn't you NOT want more of that!


I love Uptown...especially State Thomas...and I'd be delighted if its positive aspects were to spread throughout the entire city. I think some peoples' concern with Uptownification though is it's potential effect on the existing character and/or personality of an area. Some people want to just want to "keep Austin weird" and that sort of thing.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 06 Jun 2018 22:23
by willyk
The State Thomas level of development went on for a decade before we got high rise Uptownification. Isn’t that what’s neccessary— a large residential base that soaks up development sites until there is no place for the demand to go except up?

With that as my guide, I foresee the State Thomasification of the East Quarter and Farmers Market driving the eventual Uptownification of Downtown.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 07 Jun 2018 11:03
by eburress
"State Thomasification." I love it! hahaha

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 07 Jun 2018 12:21
by tamtagon
eburress wrote:"State Thomasification." I love it! hahaha


I say that tag line with Spanish Accent because I would love to see a more Tex-Mex variation, bilingual and all.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 12 Jun 2018 18:24
by Alpaca_Obsessor
Developer Wants Land Swap at Founders Park

The owner of Founders Square Apartments wants to redevelop them into a high-rise apartment building with ground-floor retail if neighbors and the city will agree to a land swap with Founders Park.

WindMass Capital has a plan to build a five-to-seven story apartment building at Founders Park, either on the site of the existing apartments or on an adjacent tract on Colorado at Marsalis.

The 65-unit apartment complex at 929 N. Marsalis sits on 1.37 acres surrounded by Founders Park. WindMass wants to swap that site for an adjacent 1.37 acres on the corner of Colorado and Marsalis. They would then demolish the existing apartments and turn that acreage back into parkland. The swap would nearly double the property’s roadway frontage. The current site has about 250 feet along Marsalis. The new site would give the developer more like 475 feet of frontage on Colorado and Marsalis, which would make retail development feasible.

They also would want a zoning change to be able to build seven stories instead of five on that corner, with 223 apartments.

Without a land swap, the developer could, by right, tear down the old apartments and build a six-story, 250-unit apartment building on that site with no retail component.


Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 12 Jun 2018 19:32
by DPatel304
Seems like a fair trade and win-win. Both the park and the apartment sit on better land after the swap, however, I've never actually been to this park so I could be wrong.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 12 Jun 2018 21:52
by Matt777
Win-Win. Get er' done.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 13 Jun 2018 08:22
by exelone31
Yep this seems like a pretty good idea.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 13 Jun 2018 08:42
by cowboyeagle05
This will depend on a few factors. Will the neighborhood hate the development altogether and fight it no matter what they propose. Could the type of retail be something nearby neighbors don't want to see? They might fear late night noisy bars but this isn't Bishop Arts and retail here wouldn't get that crazy but some might prefer just a residential building. Also, how do the historical boundaries of the park come into play here? Is it possible the historical society might object because it affects the historical boundaries of the park? Just throwing out the possible arguments cause they ultimately could affect the smoothness of this proposal actually happening.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 12 Jul 2018 10:28
by lakewoodhobo
Pretty sure the last time I was in Bishop Arts was around the first of May, not that long ago. Since then they've started digging the underground parking garage for the Exxir project, and many of the smaller town home and apartment buildings are done. Victor Prosper (Alamo Manhattan) has started to fill up.

IMG_9062.jpg

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 12 Jul 2018 10:50
by ericthegardener
Tnexster wrote:North Oak Cliff Development Update: Several Projects Close to Closing Phase 1

https://candysdirt.com/2018/06/01/your- ... te-part-1/


I don't think anyone has posted parts 2 & 3 to this series. They're really good! The amount of work going on in this area is kind of staggering.

Parts 2 & 3:

North Oak Cliff Development Update Part 2: A Quarter Billion Dollars Worth of Projects
https://candysdirt.com/2018/06/25/north-oak-cliff-development-update-part-2-a-quarter-billion-dollars-worth-of-projects/

North Oak Cliff Development Update Part 3: Townhomes Galore
https://candysdirt.com/2018/07/02/north-oak-cliff-development-update-part-3-townhomes-galore/

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 12 Jul 2018 11:11
by Cbdallas
This is going to be a great urban part of Dallas once this all merges into a cohesive area from Trinity Groves all the way over to Jefferson. Loving where all of this is headed hope the growth continues at this fast pace. Looking forward to both sides of the river as one skyline.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 12 Jul 2018 11:38
by Matt777
Does anybody have an update on when the Central Market will start construction? I need it now!

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 12 Jul 2018 11:49
by cowboyeagle05
They own land for a future store aka probably 5 years out from such a project. Once the West Village store is built then ask yourself about when the Oak Cliff store will start.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 12 Jul 2018 13:26
by ericthegardener
I'm hoping we get some other decent middle class grocery store before Central Market decides to build. Don't know where it could go though. I went to the Kroger by my girlfriend's place in Lake Highlands for the first time last week and it was great. Clean, great product range, mix of people shopping there... loved it! I'd use something like that more often than a Central Market (which I still like). Seems like Oak Cliff's current demographics could support that. Maybe the Wynnewood Village redo will bring that Kroger up to snuff, but I'm skeptical.

I think even 5 years out for CM is optimistic.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 12 Jul 2018 14:04
by exelone31
What about a Trader Joe's? That seems like it'd be a good fit for the area, just not sure exactly where.

There's also the Cox Farms Market at Sylvan Thirty, but I have no idea if it's doing well or is a viable spot.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 12 Jul 2018 14:10
by lakewoodhobo
ericthegardener wrote:I'm hoping we get some other decent middle class grocery store before Central Market decides to build. Don't know where it could go though.


I really think that one or two of the BA-adjacent Family Dollar stores, Jefferson Tower or Davis & Edgefield, would do really well as Aldi stores.

I've learned to appreciate Aldi in recent months and realize that their problem isn't their selection but rather the locations they choose. An urban-format store in either of these locations would partially satisfy the need for groceries here without alienating the Family Dollar demographic.

Untitled.png


Otherwise, I wouldn't mind seeing Lidl open somewhere in this part of Oak Cliff.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 12 Jul 2018 15:24
by Tivo_Kenevil
exelone31 wrote:What about a Trader Joe's? That seems like it'd be a good fit for the area, just not sure exactly where.

There's also the Cox Farms Market at Sylvan Thirty, but I have no idea if it's doing well or is a viable spot.


Trader Joe's is a glorified Sack N save. No thank you; I'll buy off brand items for a lesser price elsewhere! Bootleg over priced goods. GTFOH. :D :lol:

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 12 Jul 2018 19:38
by dallaz
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
exelone31 wrote:What about a Trader Joe's? That seems like it'd be a good fit for the area, just not sure exactly where.

There's also the Cox Farms Market at Sylvan Thirty, but I have no idea if it's doing well or is a viable spot.


Trader Joe's is a glorified Sack N save. No thank you; I'll buy off brand items for a lesser price elsewhere! Bootleg over priced goods. GTFOH. :D :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I never understood the draw either lol...

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 12 Jul 2018 19:40
by dallaz
lakewoodhobo wrote:
ericthegardener wrote:I'm hoping we get some other decent middle class grocery store before Central Market decides to build. Don't know where it could go though.


I really think that one or two of the BA-adjacent Family Dollar stores, Jefferson Tower or Davis & Edgefield, would do really well as Aldi stores.

I've learned to appreciate Aldi in recent months and realize that their problem isn't their selection but rather the locations they choose. An urban-format store in either of these locations would partially satisfy the need for groceries here without alienating the Family Dollar demographic.

Untitled.png

Otherwise, I wouldn't mind seeing Lidl open somewhere in this part of Oak Cliff.

Honestly, with the way things are going in North Oak Cliff, I wouldn’t doubt something like that happening in the near feature.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 13 Jul 2018 09:29
by cowboyeagle05
I would shop at Trader Joes more often if I didn't have Kroger literally across the street from my kitchen window. From what I have heard about the Cox Market at Sylvan from a few friends over there it took them months to even discover it because it's not well advertised as a grocery store. Also, those friends complained about an odd smell inside. One of those friends saw info about Bishop Arts Central Market recently and thought it was brand new news and claimed there was nothing in Oak Cliff to buy groceries from. I can tell she doesn't consider Fiesta as an option.

I do hope we see some more experimentation with the smaller grocery stores in these areas cause I would hate to see a huge plot of land with a big ole suburban store and parking lot more than what we have already.

Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Posted: 13 Jul 2018 11:00
by ericthegardener
The quality of products at Trader Joe's is very hit and miss, but after some experimentation I've found the 15 or so items that I like and buy on a regular basis. Good prices! I would welcome a TJ's in Oak Cliff.

I was super excited when Cox Farms Market opened because I am always happy to support a locally owned business when I can. I shopped there for nearly two years before I decided that my pocketbook just couldn't take it. I was spending almost twice as much on basic staples as I would at TJ's, Fiesta or Kroger. I'm not an extravagant shopper and I buy the same things each week. Customer service was hit and miss too.

The Fiesta on Jefferson is the closest grocer to my home, so I end up going there quite a bit to pick up something I am missing for a meal. It's not super clean and the product selection is not great, but it's close. Having said that, I have been to quite a few of the other Fiesta's in Dallas and Richardson and most of them have a much better product selection and are nicer. There seems to be quite a variance from Fiesta to Fiesta depending on the area it serves. With all of the new residents (with different tastes and shopping habits) moving into the immediate area, I'm wondering if the Jefferson Fiesta will be changing how it operates. It's never going to be a Central Market or Whole Foods replacement, but I would love it if the Jefferson Fiesta upped their game enough to become my go to grocery store.