Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Its early days on these food halls the good ideas will last most likely and the bad ones will fade and something else will eventually replace the business. Depending on the size we aren't talking about a bunch of Food Lion grocery store sized spaces here. Legacy Hall's Food Hall is the biggest but I imagine that one at that size will be going strong for years to come. Most of these other food halls concepts could easily be filled up and or replaced and or chopped up into smaller retail space if the business fails.

Marble removal has resumed. Off to China or wherever the rest of it is.

lakewoodhobo wrote:Marble removal has resumed. Off to China or wherever the rest of it is.

IMG_0314.JPG

I think it was Florida?

A bit of an update about the drever. Saying it should be complete by fall 2019
https://dallas.towers.net/2018/09/13/th ... ce=twitter

Warrior2015 wrote:A bit of an update about the drever. Saying it should be complete by fall 2019
https://dallas.towers.net/2018/09/13/th ... ce=twitter

Wow, one year? For all of what's left? That might be a bit optimistic. Again, I'll know it when I see it, I guess.

Keep in mind they can have an opening without finishing every aspect as well. Grand Opening probably won't happen till the end of 2020.

itsjrd1964 wrote:

Warrior2015 wrote:A bit of an update about the drever. Saying it should be complete by fall 2019
https://dallas.towers.net/2018/09/13/th ... ce=twitter

Wow, one year? For all of what's left? That might be a bit optimistic. Again, I'll know it when I see it, I guess.

Well it makes sense, since construction halted for damn near 7-8 months or so. Smh

I am just curious for when the observation deck will open, which will be their last priority. They view from up there is terribly good.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:I am just curious for when the observation deck will open. They view from up there is terribly good.

Hopefully next year. I honestly hope everything goes well with this building because this will be dallas first true completely mixed use project in one building . Also, will be a great place for visitors and residents to enjoy.

I haven't seen such a spectacular smoke and mirrors show since walking through a funhouse on the Jersey shore 10 years ago.

Those of us who live across the street and can easily peer through our windows know that there is zero work going on besides pumping out updates to social media pages. They've somehow managed to take a Kim Kardashian approach to property redevelopment. If you believe this project will be completed under Drever's guard, you will be disappointed. In fact I'll buy a round of drinks for everyone on this thread if I'm wrong and it opens next year like they promise. But I could just as easily promise to buy everyone a new iPhone XS Max -- it really won't matter.

Unless I missed something in the article, the only "news" is the discovery of new construction permits. However I found these permits over a month ago and posted about them on/r/DowntownDallas. So, this isn't a new development. Two months later, nothing has actually been done about those permits. Also, on the Downtown Residents Council page, someone in the know said that Thompson is saying their Drever hotel is "indefinitely on hold".

The other issue is, I believe, their city incentives expire if the project doesn't open by the end of 2019. I believe that was the third extension -- they originally had till the end of 2017, then 2018, now 2019. Now I'm sure they can ask for yet another extension, but they should face more resistance this time -- deservingly I might add.

The best thing that could happen is for Headington or some other developer to buy this project. But I'm certain if they (or any other party) were interested they would have done so by now.

Why am I not surprised....and why does Dallas seem to attract such asshat developers compared to other other cities I wonder.

Anyway, I bet that is what Drever has been aiming for all along, to finish up the demo work on this, squeeze some bullshit money out of the city, and then flip it to a developer who doesnt have their heads up their asses now that the most expensive part of such a project is finished and it is a blank slate to build on.

Again it's not so much asshatery it's the size and scale of a project like this. This is a giant 1980's skyscraper without a purpose and isnt as much of a looker as BofA tower. Turning it into one use, office, residential, or hotel makes no smart business sense at this point. The reason no Trammel Crow quality developer, which could get it done if they wanted to is because of its a bees nest of issues. TC has the know-how and the scale of professional intelligence but for some reason, they don't have the desire to retrofit a huge anchor of a dusty 1980's office tower. It's because it's very hard to take a building on this scale and flip it while generating a worthwhile profit. They would rather build shopping centers on 75 than tackle this dusty behemoth. This isn't a three-bedroom ranch in Irving. They can't just make it a full office building again so they have to update it and mix in multiple types of operations, residential management, commercial management, retail management etc. All that require lots of moving coordinated parts for which the building was not designed. Instead, we have a list of developers looking to flex a muscle they don't have and are trying to wrangle this giant project to prove they are on the same caliber as a Trammel Crow or Lincoln Property Group etc. Talk to Spire they also have similar desires to be seen as the big guys but so far they havent been able to do big projects and continue to sit on land waiting for their moment to shine.

^We might have to agree to disagree, but the hexagon-shaped First National Bank Tower (designed by George Dahl, completed in 1965) is way more architecturally significant than Bank of America Plaza. The podium alone feels like an alien spaceship from the 60s and those lights, assuming they come back as programmable, will put BofA to shame if/once the building reopens.

trueicon wrote:I haven't seen such a spectacular smoke and mirrors show since walking through a funhouse on the Jersey shore 10 years ago.

Those of us who live across the street and can easily peer through our windows know that there is zero work going on besides pumping out updates to social media pages. They've somehow managed to take a Kim Kardashian approach to property redevelopment. If you believe this project will be completed under Drever's guard, you will be disappointed. In fact I'll buy a round of drinks for everyone on this thread if I'm wrong and it opens next year like they promise. But I could just as easily promise to buy everyone a new iPhone XS Max -- it really won't matter.

Unless I missed something in the article, the only "news" is the discovery of new construction permits. However I found these permits over a month ago and posted about them on/r/DowntownDallas. So, this isn't a new development. Two months later, nothing has actually been done about those permits. Also, on the Downtown Residents Council page, someone in the know said that Thompson is saying their Drever hotel is "indefinitely on hold".

The other issue is, I believe, their city incentives expire if the project doesn't open by the end of 2019. I believe that was the third extension -- they originally had till the end of 2017, then 2018, now 2019. Now I'm sure they can ask for yet another extension, but they should face more resistance this time -- deservingly I might add.

The best thing that could happen is for Headington or some other developer to buy this project. But I'm certain if they (or any other party) were interested they would have done so by now.

So construction has stopped again?

lakewoodhobo wrote:^We might have to agree to disagree, but the hexagon-shaped First National Bank Tower (designed by George Dahl, completed in 1965) is way more architecturally significant than Bank of America Plaza. The podium alone feels like an alien spaceship from the 60s and those lights, assuming they come back as programmable, will put BofA to shame if/once the building reopens.

No we agree I assure you I am a fan of its architecture but BofA has a look that appears more up to date with its blue glass facade compared to the dark dated exterior of the Drever. For some companies, they want to appear to be in a more updated building. 1401 Elm is an architectural trophy of its time but on a marketing brochure for those who could care less about architectural treasures they want a building that appears to be timelessly in the now. BofA tower does a better job of that and its a landmark building in pictures of the well known Dallas skyline compared with a dark building in the middle center of the skyline that fades into others.

Warrior2015 wrote:

trueicon wrote:I haven't seen such a spectacular smoke and mirrors show since walking through a funhouse on the Jersey shore 10 years ago.

Those of us who live across the street and can easily peer through our windows know that there is zero work going on besides pumping out updates to social media pages. They've somehow managed to take a Kim Kardashian approach to property redevelopment. If you believe this project will be completed under Drever's guard, you will be disappointed. In fact I'll buy a round of drinks for everyone on this thread if I'm wrong and it opens next year like they promise. But I could just as easily promise to buy everyone a new iPhone XS Max -- it really won't matter.

Unless I missed something in the article, the only "news" is the discovery of new construction permits. However I found these permits over a month ago and posted about them on/r/DowntownDallas. So, this isn't a new development. Two months later, nothing has actually been done about those permits. Also, on the Downtown Residents Council page, someone in the know said that Thompson is saying their Drever hotel is "indefinitely on hold".

The other issue is, I believe, their city incentives expire if the project doesn't open by the end of 2019. I believe that was the third extension -- they originally had till the end of 2017, then 2018, now 2019. Now I'm sure they can ask for yet another extension, but they should face more resistance this time -- deservingly I might add.

The best thing that could happen is for Headington or some other developer to buy this project. But I'm certain if they (or any other party) were interested they would have done so by now.

So construction has stopped again?

From today

What is that?

Tnexster wrote:What is that?

I'm assuming he's saying construction is happening and hasn't stopped

I'm waiting for them to say that the marble is 'structurally deficient' or something like that, and that it cannot be put back on. There is nothing in particular that leads me to this conclusion, yet I feel like it is a real possibility. What will we do then? Perhaps I'm just being paranoid!

I walked in the area today and saw obvious activity going on. Cherry picker or something had somebody doing something. Or maybe it was a small crane, not sure now.

lakewoodhobo wrote:^We might have to agree to disagree, but the hexagon-shaped First National Bank Tower (designed by George Dahl, completed in 1965) is way more architecturally significant than Bank of America Plaza. The podium alone feels like an alien spaceship from the 60s and those lights, assuming they come back as programmable, will put BofA to shame if/once the building reopens.

If they turned the lights back on, do you think it would be at the same intensity? I came across a news open of NEWS 8 (WFAA) in the 80s, the building’s lights were shockingly bright. I remember them being bright as a kid, but it just reminded me of how intense they were. It would probably be hell to live close to that building at night.

Skip to 0:04

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-LG1B_iebyw

dallaz wrote:

lakewoodhobo wrote:^We might have to agree to disagree, but the hexagon-shaped First National Bank Tower (designed by George Dahl, completed in 1965) is way more architecturally significant than Bank of America Plaza. The podium alone feels like an alien spaceship from the 60s and those lights, assuming they come back as programmable, will put BofA to shame if/once the building reopens.

If they turned the lights back on, do you think it would be at the same intensity? I came across a news open of NEWS 8 (WFAA) in the 80s, the building’s lights were shockingly bright. I remember them being bright as a kid, but it just reminded me of how intense they were. It would probably be hell to live close to that building at night.

Skip to 0:04

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-LG1B_iebyw

Damn that's bright!!

dallaz wrote:

lakewoodhobo wrote:^We might have to agree to disagree, but the hexagon-shaped First National Bank Tower (designed by George Dahl, completed in 1965) is way more architecturally significant than Bank of America Plaza. The podium alone feels like an alien spaceship from the 60s and those lights, assuming they come back as programmable, will put BofA to shame if/once the building reopens.

If they turned the lights back on, do you think it would be at the same intensity? I came across a news open of NEWS 8 (WFAA) in the 80s, the building’s lights were shockingly bright. I remember them being bright as a kid, but it just reminded me of how intense they were. It would probably be hell to live close to that building at night.

Skip to 0:04

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-LG1B_iebyw

Nice find! Yeah there's no way they would be that bright today.

lakewoodhobo wrote:

dallaz wrote:

lakewoodhobo wrote:^We might have to agree to disagree, but the hexagon-shaped First National Bank Tower (designed by George Dahl, completed in 1965) is way more architecturally significant than Bank of America Plaza. The podium alone feels like an alien spaceship from the 60s and those lights, assuming they come back as programmable, will put BofA to shame if/once the building reopens.

If they turned the lights back on, do you think it would be at the same intensity? I came across a news open of NEWS 8 (WFAA) in the 80s, the building’s lights were shockingly bright. I remember them being bright as a kid, but it just reminded me of how intense they were. It would probably be hell to live close to that building at night.

Skip to 0:04

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-LG1B_iebyw

Nice find! Yeah there's no way they would be that bright today.

I think the intensity of the LEDs on The Omni would be just fine.

On a side note, dang, Dale Hanson looks YOUNG! I forgot what he used to look like. hahaha

The Southland Life building used to be even brighter.

When nobody lived downtown nobody probably cared how bright anything was since you could go bowling on almost any street after 5:00.

DMN buried the lead, but Drever officially asked the city for (at least) a third extension to 2020. Not a big surprise that they won't be able to open at the end of 2019 when they aren't actually doing any construction inside the building.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... w-investor

See everyone next year -- same time, same thread -- when I post that they asked the city for the fourth extension to 2021!

The Drever -- the finest in Construction Theater since 2016

Posting some more info that wasn't covered in the DMN article. You can read the memo to the council from the office of economic development here:

https://dallascityhall.com/government/C ... 101518.pdf

What jumps out to me is that the one-year extension is a requirement from the lenders and investors. A 430 million dollar loan is scheduled to close October 25. The full council is scheduled to vote on the extension October 24. I'm sure that October 25 closing date is no coincidence. I'd be completely fine if the council did NOT vote for this latest extension, and I plan to write the council. It's a shame to say that, but this developer hasn't shown any reason to believe their word. They haven't been honest about their struggles, insisting all along this year that they would get the project completed on time. If Drever isn't given the extension, it almost certainly forces another sale of the building to a different developer.

They could at least run a Haunted House in the building to generate some cash for October.

Cbdallas wrote:They could at least run a Haunted House in the building to generate some cash for October.

Hah you know, that's not a half bad idea!

I hate the name: The Drever. Just call it Elm Place, like it rightfully should. These superficial names for the sake of gentrification are hollow as hell.

joshua.dodd wrote:I hate the name: The Drever. Just call it Elm Place, like it rightfully should. These superficial names for the sake of gentrification are hollow as hell.

I've not exactly been a fan of it, either, but I figure the builders/developers don't stop to ask me my opinion beforehand. Besides, the next owner that comes along will probably decide to put their own name on the complex--maybe.

trueicon wrote:... It's a shame to say that, but this developer hasn't shown any reason to believe their word. They haven't been honest about their struggles, insisting all along this year that they would get the project completed on time. If Drever isn't given the extension, it almost certainly forces another sale of the building to a different developer.

I guess most developers with the same smoke screen, "All is well, All is well" when it's not. They're getting (an eventual) $150 million in credit to finish this deal so The Drever should have been honest about the struggles... this developer is doing what any other would do, so I suppose until there's a systemic order of accountable project progress honesty maybe this one gets the same shameful pass as the others. Instead of a neighborhood swelling up about false promises, this neighborhood want the deal done. I don't want another 2-3 year delay with this project.

I don't see why what this developer did was anything different and I don't expect them to publicly acknowledge some failure. Do I wish this project was already done hell yeah! The trouble is when you are trying to secure financing the last thing you need to do is make a public statement that makes your business seem like it could fail. No bank or investor wants to touch a project if the public perceives it as a failure. You stay quiet tell everyone there is a small delay and keep trying to convince potential financing behind closed doors that your bet is a safe one. If it fails you quietly disappear into the night and let bankruptcy formalities settle things. This idea that developers aka businesses have to be "honest" with the public is an odd expectation for sure. Since when has a developer ever been successful saying well it didn't work out sorry guys good luck with a half-finished project or that giant hole we dug but weren't able to even pour a foundation. Golly-gee sorry, all those businesses we hoped to lease to and in turn create jobs didn't work out our bad.

You steal $20 from your nanas purse apologize, AT&T gets struck by an act of god then yeah apologize to your customers for something you didn't anticipate, but for a developer, to be frank about the difficulty with financing the redo of a massive skyscraper in a downtown office market long forgotten by many developers, no I think that's expecting too much transparency even when accepting public money.

FLASH......FLASH.....FLASH

Another lender is arriving to save the project!!!


https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... w-investor

tamtagon wrote: I don't want another 2-3 year delay with this project.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Do I wish this project was already done hell yeah! The trouble is when you are trying to secure financing the last thing you need to do is make a public statement that makes your business seem like it could fail.

I agree. You guys are right that everyone wants to see the project completed. It's easy to understand why Drever doesn't come out and say "Sorry guys, no bank wants to touch this project" even though that appears to be the reality.

The biggest issue for those of us who live downtown is that, in their hubris to do "construction theater" to appease investors that there are hardhats on the project site, Drever continues to block off every sidewalk surrounding the building. That creates a very real net "negative", especially as crowded downtown sidewalks are even more crowded thanks to rental scooters. At least open the sidewalks.

Punting the football to another developer certainly would involve more years of delays. But sadly there's a good chance that, after they get the extension, the financing with the bank falls through anyway. I think a fair solution would be a contingency that the 1-year extension would only be granted if (1) Drever sticks with the current bank, and (2) they reopen the sidewalks when they aren't needed for active construction.

Is this financing (that they are scheduled to close on October 25) the same financing they were scheduled to close no later than June 29?

I'm agreement there trueicon. To be honest I don't blame them for having trouble getting the balloon off the ground. It's a massive project to resurrect an old office tower of this size that misses the mark on many modern conveniences. If this tower had more parking it would be an easier sell being that larger parking ratios are a requirement for office space downtown these days. If it wasn't filled with the asbestos previously sure it could be a workable project. Throw in redoing the marble columns by numbering them, shipping them off to Florida to be laser cut and shipped back is a super pricey project that doesn't improve anything other than preserving the history of the building and you've spent millions just to keep the building from falling apart but not increase its ability to be functional again. We have seen buildings torn down in Dallas for less.

A project like this was always going to take multiple investor groups and a wish upon a star for something better on the other end. Its a lot of capital to dump into one project and whoever can shoe string this together and still come out with some cash on the other end is lucky but not much else.

Any updates?

dallaz wrote:Any updates?

I drive by it all the time and can see they are working in there but beyond that no. It's interesting that they have a Twitter page and post nothing about the building.

They have gotten as far as removing all ( or most ) or the marble. So far none of it has been replaced. Having spent that much time and money on this project I can't imagine it would be abandoned but who knows.

Finally some visible progress on the exterior of the tower. Not holding my breath, but this is a good sign.

What is that? Aqua colored LED lights or just covers? Paint? It's hard to tell.

Matt777 wrote:What is that? Aqua colored LED lights or just covers? Paint? It's hard to tell.

It looks like a layer of tyvek or similar construction material. The color is unusual though.

Wow! If those are the LED lights being tested they sure look BEAUTIFUL!

Its construction related material, not LED's.

It is very noticeable but would be a strange look, glad it's just construction material but I wonder what they are doing. Glad they are making some obvious progress.

Tnexster wrote:It is very noticeable but would be a strange look, glad it's just construction material but I wonder what they are doing. Glad they are making some obvious progress.

Same here. I began to get very concerned about this project. There’s no updates on their social media platforms...I thought something was going wrong.

This is one project I want done the most. It has so much potential...

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Its construction related material, not LED's.

I live across the street. You can't see it in the photo posted, but at the bottom of the aqua stripe in the forefront, they have re-installed two marble panels. When they were prepping to do those 2 panels (as a test/POC, I presume) they smoothed out the concrete underlay and primed it with the aqua "paint" stuff. It looks like they are now prepping the rest of the building to re-install the rest of the restored marble, which is indeed very exciting news.