Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Posted: **24 Jan 2020 11:14**

Mr. Amsterdam wrote:
eburress wrote:It might be interesting for the Galleria to become more like that newish mall in downtown Salt Lake City. Turning the top few floors into office and residential uses and incorporating more entertainment options like movie theaters, bars, restaurants, escape rooms, a climbing gym, etc would also help draw folks back to it.

The city itself as a whole left a lot to be desired, but it had some really nice spots like this one. It was an oasis in a sea of mediocrity.

For sure! SLC is at best odd. lol Try ordering a beer, for example.

And yes, mall reconstructions like this are expensive but I'm sure so is the cost of not rebuilding them.

Posted: **24 Jan 2020 11:36**

We had to choose between Salt Lake City and Dallas because spouse was getting recruited for a very specific job that only exists in a few random cities. SLC had nothing going for it except outdoorsy activities, and even then, you have to deal with terrible air pollution.

There's nothing to do there and the real estate in the heart of the city (the only area I'd even consider; a big no thanks to suburban gated communities in the middle of nowhere) was insanely expensive.

Posted: **24 Jan 2020 12:15**

I'm just going to be selfish and hope they turn it into an Alamo Drafthouse

Posted: **26 Jan 2020 13:09**

The Belk store smells like it has a serious plumbing problem, or they have the worst perfume cloud/ combination in the world. I would guess it will require extensive remodeling before another tenant will move in.

Posted: **26 Jan 2020 13:25**

The only real possible tenant for Belk's spot is Dillards unless Federated decides to bring Bloomindale's back to Dallas. The number of large department store chains is limited in these days of retail retrenchment.

Posted: **26 Jan 2020 17:30**

I don't hate the Alamo Drafthouse idea for some of the space. They would have highway visible space and I am sure the Mall would have to turn some of the leftover space into another retail or restaurant space. The AMC Valley View has certainly been surprising to see it stay around despite the mall being a ghost town for so long. Hopefully, a Vetted Well would also be a part of the project.

Posted: **26 Jan 2020 19:37**

An interesting fact about the Belk space is that the facade was designed by Philip Johnson and John Burgee. Belk modified the entry when it moved in.

Steve Brown from 2013: https://www.dallasnews.com/business/2013/12/13/galleria-dallas-redo-updates-architect-philip-johnson-s-store-design/

It's still much closer to the original than the virtually identical one built at Houston's Galleria. That has had two-story window openings cut into it and other more extensive modifications as the space became Galleria VI, although perhaps it's a model to follow to repurpose the square footage.

Posted: **27 Jan 2020 00:43**

Another department store possibility would be Von Maur, a primarily Midwest chain. I'm not sure how much they are looking at TX for location/s, but I have heard that they have some amount of their phone/online shopping traffic coming from TX.

The mall management is being somewhat vague as to what they'll be doing to the mall, as well as the Belk space.

Posted: **27 Jan 2020 10:12**

The_Overdog wrote:The Belk store smells like it has a serious plumbing problem, or they have the worst perfume cloud/ combination in the world. I would guess it will require extensive remodeling before another tenant will move in.

I noticed that when I went to Macy's around Christmas as well. It was overwhelmingly bad. I couldn't believe nobody else was running out of the store.

Posted: **27 Jan 2020 12:09**

Marshall Field & Company.....miss that store.

Posted: **27 Jan 2020 13:23**

So this info is from a friend’s friend, but he was saying the Belk departure was mutual between Trademark & Belk. I assume that even as a “flagship”, there is not enough strong brand recognition in Texas and starting in small, rural towns ( Weatherfors,etc) didn’t make anyone think “luxury “. Even the flagship Belk in Atlanta closed and they are NC adjacent. He also said the building was coming down to make way for additional space like the southern entry. Officials also recognize that American shoppers don’t like to go up beyond the second level to shop. They are considering taking a large chunk of three for an upscale gym and using the existing track around the skylight. A luxury theater is on the boards too for three. Take this “insider” info w/ a grain of salt.

Posted: **27 Jan 2020 14:07**

All sounds like reasonable upgrades including the teardown news for an open-air space facing the Tollway.

Posted: **27 Jan 2020 14:13**

Would be interesting if a gym was pursued for the third floor, especially considering there is already Telos across the Tollway and the new Lifetime Fitness complex going in within the old Valley View space.

Posted: **27 Jan 2020 14:47**

From Saks Fifth Avenue to a gym and some no name store below. Doesn't sound like this is going the right direction.

Posted: **27 Jan 2020 15:00**

Many malls are rethinking their space and incorporating more uses. Phipps Plaza in Atlanta which also contained a “Luxury” Belk dept store is a good example of this strategy.

Posted: **27 Jan 2020 16:40**

Yes and Belk never seemed to a good fit at the Galleria in the first place... The insider rumors mentioned above for possible changes to the mall all make some sense but probably complicated to execute. Trademark was hired 18 months ago to plan changes with no announcements since, which likely means it’s not going to be small redo. Probably waiting to get the big tenants signed before saying anything... Seems to me that buying the office buildings and making it one contiguous property like the original Hines project would allow a bigger overall look at the mall’s (and office buildings) weaknesses - like making better pedestrian connections on the east side where the new apartments and hotels are. What’s good for the mall should be good for the office buildings. Could always sell the office properties later after improvements are done.

Posted: **28 Jan 2020 01:39**

As someone who works in retail, there is a 0% chance of this Belk store being replaced. It'll be torn down, turned into a park, gym, something. I don't think a single retailer who isn't small and new is opening stores at all right now.

Posted: **28 Jan 2020 10:36**

The end by the Gap Inc stores needs to be torn down as well.

Posted: **28 Jan 2020 11:43**

Well it seems the Galleria has already been working on renovation plans.
Mega mall makeover: Plans show ideas for Galleria Dallas redo
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... llas-redo/

Posted: **28 Jan 2020 13:59**

vman wrote:Well it seems the Galleria has already been working on renovation plans.
Mega mall makeover: Plans show ideas for Galleria Dallas redo
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... llas-redo/

Wow, that seems like a pretty substantial renovation. I would like to see the mall attempt to connect more with the other developments around it as well. There are the apartments popping up in the old Showcase lot. There's that strange development going in behind the former Z Gallerie/World Market Space. None of these things really have a seamless or seam-reduced connection between them.

Posted: **28 Jan 2020 14:40**

I’ve always felt that Galleria area has a Houston type feel to it. A lot of randomness with the development in that area.

Posted: **28 Jan 2020 17:11**

vman wrote:Well it seems the Galleria has already been working on renovation plans.
Mega mall makeover: Plans show ideas for Galleria Dallas redo
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... llas-redo/

Looks like they also want to make the ice rink smaller, I woulda thought theyd double down and make the whole mall an ice rink haha.

Here's some of the renderings for everyone else.

Posted: **28 Jan 2020 21:30**

Speaking of Galleria....

Amazon growing its Dallas offices with more Galleria space

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... ria-space/

Posted: **29 Jan 2020 07:42**

Mega mall makeover: Plans show ideas for Galleria Dallas redo

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... llas-redo/

Posted: **29 Jan 2020 08:23**

Some of this I like but wonder if it's enough. Wish they were doing more residential and they have that vacant piece of land at Noel and Alpha that has never been touched. Does somebody else own that corner and they just can't get to it or what? I have always wondered why nothing was placed there.

Posted: **30 Jan 2020 23:22**

quixomniac wrote:
vman wrote:Well it seems the Galleria has already been working on renovation plans.
Mega mall makeover: Plans show ideas for Galleria Dallas redo
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... llas-redo/

Looks like they also want to make the ice rink smaller, I woulda thought theyd double down and make the whole mall an ice rink haha.

Here's some of the renderings for everyone else.

I like the renderings. Looks like they're trying to make it resemble the Houston Galleria even more. Although I will admit, I'd rather have the ice rink stay the same size as it is. It's already not that big, and come Christmastime,the smaller size would provide complications when constructing the tree, unless they choose to end this tradition.

Posted: **31 Jan 2020 09:27**

Tnexster wrote:Some of this I like but wonder if it's enough. I wish they were doing more residential and they have that vacant piece of land at Noel and Alpha that has never been touched. Does somebody else own that corner and they just can't get to it or what? I have always wondered why nothing was placed there.

The same company that owns the office towers at the Galleria owns that side including the vacant land. They recently put that side of the Galleria up for sale including that land. I imagine they aren't willing to sell the undeveloped land by itself. So it would be up to the new owners to seek redevelopment opportunities.

Notice how the mall redo is 99% on the east side of the Galleria where the mall ownership controls the land. The Office portion is on the west side and different ownership.

Posted: **31 Jan 2020 09:41**

^Isn't the office side the east side and the new stuff on the west? East side is Noel Rd

Posted: **31 Jan 2020 10:56**

Tnexster wrote:^Isn't the office side the east side and the new stuff on the west? Eastside is Noel Rd

Yes lol I must have been upside down this morning.

Galleria.jpg

Posted: **31 Jan 2020 10:57**

Saw some folks walking around the Galleria this morning looking at different carpet samples, etc.

Looks like things might be rocking and rolling here pretty soon!

Posted: **02 Feb 2020 10:03**

https://dallascityhall.com/departments/ ... mittal.pdf

Here is a detailed plan for the mall redevelopment (where the site plan posted above comes from).

Posted: **02 Feb 2020 12:20**

This neighborhood upgrade improves the value of the valley view plan. Really, the whole area has been ripe for old-fashioned gentrification since Frisco got started 20 years ago. Galleria-Midtown is destined to take a central business district function; a second downtown for Dallas that increases the urban cache of Dallas.

Posted: **02 Feb 2020 15:27**

Interesting stuff, but still don’t see increased pedestrian access to the east and north where there needs to be.

Posted: **02 Feb 2020 15:49**

^True but they have very little control in both those areas. The east frontage on this plan shows improved streetscaping at Macy's but the office tower owners control the east access since their towers and garages are located on that side of the mall. The office portion is up for sale including the empty land they have at the corner of Noel and Alpha Rd. A new owner in the office portion could invest in similar improvements cause I guarantee the current owners are using these new mall plans in their collateral to market the office portion to buyers.

The north is tricky since Nordstrom doesnt appear to have any issues. It really all depends on the office portion owners to sell that empty land they have at the corner of Noel and Alpha to some developer looking to build maybe residential towers with ground-floor spaces. Or a brand new office product with ground floor uses as well. The Macys side is certainly terrible as far as pedestrians go but since the mall was designed to be surrounded by parking garages its hard to convert something inward-facing into a contemporary outward-facing design model.

Galleria SIte Plan.jpg

Galleria 3.jpg

Posted: **02 Feb 2020 18:32**

Definitely aware of the challenges of the office ownership on the east side walling off access to the mall, but that can’t be an excuse. In a previous post I suggested that UBS buy the office properties and recombine into one like it used to be under Hines in the 80s and 90s. Improvements can be made to the whole site and the office properties could always be sold off later if need be. There’s too much at stake with all the apartments and hotels being developed to the east and I’m sure it’s being considered....

On the north side if Nordstrom would create a new store entrance on Alpha - maybe at the NW corner of the store. This would create a synergistic entrance for development to the north, etc.

Posted: **02 Feb 2020 22:14**

It looks like they don't expect the Banana Republic/Gap/Old Navy to be staying around.

Posted: **02 Feb 2020 23:16**

Wonder what the “Outside TIF Project Scope” on the Proposed Site Plan means?

Posted: **03 Feb 2020 06:06**

I cant believe Neiman-Marcus is not in this mall.... was it before?

Posted: **03 Feb 2020 09:48**

It looks like they don't expect the Banana Republic/Gap/Old Navy to be staying around.

It is still labeled 'Banana Republic', it does look like they are going to open the dead space in the corner where the escalators and elevators are by Banana Republic to build a better looking entrance, delete the exterior fountain (good idea) and build an 'urban street' next to another giant street (the Tollway), and set up a few pad sites adjacent to the tollway. I think they should spend a bit to build the 'urban street' in the current 'back alley spaces' between the garages and mall. That first impression is terrible, even though the garages are fine.

Posted: **03 Feb 2020 13:39**

tamtagon wrote:I cant believe Neiman-Marcus is not in this mall.... was it before?

Nope. At the time NM was in the nearby Prestonwood mall.

Posted: **03 Feb 2020 15:36**

The_Overdog wrote:
It looks like they don't expect the Banana Republic/Gap/Old Navy to be staying around.

It is still labeled 'Banana Republic', it does look like they are going to open the dead space in the corner where the escalators and elevators are by Banana Republic to build a better looking entrance, delete the exterior fountain (good idea) and build an 'urban street' next to another giant street (the Tollway), and set up a few pad sites adjacent to the tollway. I think they should spend a bit to build the 'urban street' in the current 'back alley spaces' between the garages and mall. That first impression is terrible, even though the garages are fine.

So it is... But on Page 14, that space is labeled "Future Use", at least as to Level One.

Posted: **18 Feb 2020 09:11**

The acquisition includes an almost 2-acre building site on the northeast corner of the Galleria property that had been planned for another high-rise.

“We do have a site that can accommodate a roughly 300,000-square-foot new building,” said C. Brent Smith, Piedmont’s president and chief executive. “We are excited to be able to pursue some tenants to start that development."

To be clear, Smith said, Piedmont wouldn’t be likely to develop a speculative building on that corner site.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... high-rise/

Posted: **18 Feb 2020 11:10**

Hopefully Piedmont and the mall owner will coordinate their plans going forward. Coordination and planning between the different owners over the years is never mentioned in these articles. Long term success for both depends on it. A dying or vibrant mall would obviously affect the office property values negative or positive. Rant over...

Posted: **18 Feb 2020 17:51**

Zmitz wrote:
The acquisition includes an almost 2-acre building site on the northeast corner of the Galleria property that had been planned for another high-rise.

“We do have a site that can accommodate a roughly 300,000-square-foot new building,” said C. Brent Smith, Piedmont’s president and chief executive. “We are excited to be able to pursue some tenants to start that development."

To be clear, Smith said, Piedmont wouldn’t be likely to develop a speculative building on that corner site.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... high-rise/

Guess that answers the question about that corner. Funny I had never seen the original rendering from the early 80's.

Posted: **07 Mar 2020 18:45**

Frankly I would not object to a building that would compliment the existing architecture rather than the ( now usual ) all glass tower.

Posted: **08 Mar 2020 11:08**

scott2 wrote:Frankly I would not object to a building that would compliment the existing architecture rather than the ( now usual ) all glass tower.

I agree.

Posted: **12 Mar 2020 16:07**

Retail Therapy: Galleria Dallas may get the last laugh
As some malls struggle, the Galleria has held its own. Now it’s planning a big transformation to become 'much more’ than a really good mall.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ret ... ast-laugh/

Posted: **12 Mar 2020 16:36**

Would love to see this entire area from Spring Valley from the tollway to Preston to 635 become a new urban area of Dallas. It is well positioned to do so.

Posted: **12 Mar 2020 18:36**

Cbdallas wrote:Would love to see this entire area from Spring Valley from the tollway to Preston to 635 become a new urban area of Dallas. It is well positioned to do so.

I think that larger vision of yours could one day tie together Midtown and Addison Circle (with Cotton Belt rail coming soon to its bus transit center). For local identity, I'd like to see the Noel streetname dropped, and a single name on what is now Quorum, Verde Valley and Noel, all the way from 635 to the Circle. Quorum would be the most straightforward to go with. What do you think?

Posted: **12 Mar 2020 18:48**

I45Tex wrote:
Cbdallas wrote:Would love to see this entire area from Spring Valley from the tollway to Preston to 635 become a new urban area of Dallas. It is well positioned to do so.

I think that larger vision of yours could one day tie together Midtown and Addison Circle (with Cotton Belt rail coming soon to its bus transit center). For local identity, I'd like to see the Noel streetname dropped, and a single name on what is now Quorum, Verde Valley and Noel, all the way from 635 to the Circle. Quorum would be the most straightforward to go with. What do you think?

NOPE, I'm going to go with Noel. How many times do you get a street named after you??

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