North Dallas: Galleria

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Addison
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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Addison » 05 Oct 2022 11:05

dallaz wrote:Nordstrom is shrinking its Galleria Dallas store to two levels

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ret ... wo-levels/

The Seattle-based retailer said 47,277 square feet of space on the third level will be vacated before Thanksgiving, according to planning documents filed with the state. Work will begin Oct. 24, and the move will be completed by Nov. 18.

The 225,000-square-foot store was Nordstrom’s first in Texas and opened in 1996 with hundreds of shoppers waiting to get in. Marshall Field’s was next door and Macy’s was where it is now. Saks Fifth Avenue was on the southern end of the mall where now Banana Republic, Gap and Old Navy are stacked on three levels.




This was already discovered several weeks ago (see earlier posts in this thread), but the confirmation from Nordstrom itself is nice.
Last edited by Addison on 05 Oct 2022 11:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Proquest20
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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Proquest20 » 05 Oct 2022 11:10

It makes me nervous that the Galleria didn’t reach back for a comment, kind of makes me feel that they don’t know what they’re going to do with the space.

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Addison
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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Addison » 05 Oct 2022 11:49

Proquest20 wrote:It makes me nervous that the Galleria didn’t reach back for a comment, kind of makes me feel that they don’t know what they’re going to do with the space.


Given the sad state of the Saks wing, that's probably a safe bet.

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Tucy
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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Tucy » 05 Oct 2022 14:23

Proquest20 wrote:It makes me nervous that the Galleria didn’t reach back for a comment, kind of makes me feel that they don’t know what they’re going to do with the space.


Pretty sure Nordstrom owns the building, so it would be up to them, not the Galleria management. Sad that the "journalist" apparently didn't think to ask if there are any plans for the space (or if she did think to ask, chose not to share the information).

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Addison
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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Addison » 05 Oct 2022 14:33

Tucy wrote:
Proquest20 wrote:It makes me nervous that the Galleria didn’t reach back for a comment, kind of makes me feel that they don’t know what they’re going to do with the space.


Pretty sure Nordstrom owns the building, so it would be up to them, not the Galleria management. Sad that the "journalist" apparently didn't think to ask if there are any plans for the space (or if she did think to ask, chose not to share the information).


I think to Proquest20's point, it would be in the Galleria management's best interest to work out something with or without Nordstrom to bring life to that wing sooner than later once the 3rd floor is finally closed off, especially since they have at least two fairly big-name tenants who will be negatively impacted by the decline in foot traffic.

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Tucy
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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Tucy » 05 Oct 2022 16:03

Addison wrote:
Tucy wrote:
Proquest20 wrote:It makes me nervous that the Galleria didn’t reach back for a comment, kind of makes me feel that they don’t know what they’re going to do with the space.


Pretty sure Nordstrom owns the building, so it would be up to them, not the Galleria management. Sad that the "journalist" apparently didn't think to ask if there are any plans for the space (or if she did think to ask, chose not to share the information).


I think to Proquest20's point, it would be in the Galleria management's best interest to work out something with or without Nordstrom to bring life to that wing sooner than later once the 3rd floor is finally closed off, especially since they have at least two fairly big-name tenants who will be negatively impacted by the decline in foot traffic.


Who are the fairly big-name tenants that you have in mind? Forever 21? They also have a second floor entrance, so probably won't be hurt much by any reduction in third floor traffic. The only other store I see on that end of the third floor is Windsor, not what I would consider a big-name (or even fairly big name) tenant.

In any event, sure, it would be in the mall's interest to work something out to bring life to that wing (and for that matter, to bring more life to the whole mall...) To be clear, if it involves the third floor of the Nordstrom building, the mall will have to do it with Nordstrom. Of course, they also have the 180,000 square feet of vacant space in the Belk/Sak's Fifth Avenue/Marshall Field building to work with...

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby R1070 » 05 Oct 2022 16:12

In the plans to re-do the mall, there was mention that the 3rd floor would be re-imagined and not what we know it as today. That tells me that most retailers on the 3rd floor would move or leave the center focusing on 2 floors of retail and special purposes for the 3rd. Maybe a gym, bowling alley, movie theater...

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Addison » 05 Oct 2022 16:18

Tucy wrote:
Addison wrote:
Tucy wrote:
Pretty sure Nordstrom owns the building, so it would be up to them, not the Galleria management. Sad that the "journalist" apparently didn't think to ask if there are any plans for the space (or if she did think to ask, chose not to share the information).


I think to Proquest20's point, it would be in the Galleria management's best interest to work out something with or without Nordstrom to bring life to that wing sooner than later once the 3rd floor is finally closed off, especially since they have at least two fairly big-name tenants who will be negatively impacted by the decline in foot traffic.


Who are the fairly big-name tenants that you have in mind? Forever 21? They also have a second floor entrance, so probably won't be hurt much by any reduction in third floor traffic. The only other store I see on that end of the third floor is Windsor, not what I would consider a big-name (or even fairly big name) tenant.

In any event, sure, it would be in the mall's interest to work something out to bring life to that wing (and for that matter, to bring more life to the whole mall...) To be clear, if it involves the third floor of the Nordstrom building, the mall will have to do it with Nordstrom. Of course, they also have the 180,000 square feet of vacant space in the Belk/Sak's Fifth Avenue/Marshall Field building to work with...


I would say a national retail chain that reliably pays the likely high rent that the Galleria charges and only has one Dallas proper location is "fairly big-name." This mall isn't exactly in a position to thumb its nose at tenants.

And I'm not sure what the vacant Saks building has to do with anything. They haven't been in any hurry to address it, while the Nordstrom 3rd floor closure and the impact it will have is happening fast.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Proquest20 » 05 Oct 2022 17:16

Addison wrote:
Tucy wrote:
Addison wrote:
I think to Proquest20's point, it would be in the Galleria management's best interest to work out something with or without Nordstrom to bring life to that wing sooner than later once the 3rd floor is finally closed off, especially since they have at least two fairly big-name tenants who will be negatively impacted by the decline in foot traffic.


Who are the fairly big-name tenants that you have in mind? Forever 21? They also have a second floor entrance, so probably won't be hurt much by any reduction in third floor traffic. The only other store I see on that end of the third floor is Windsor, not what I would consider a big-name (or even fairly big name) tenant.

In any event, sure, it would be in the mall's interest to work something out to bring life to that wing (and for that matter, to bring more life to the whole mall...) To be clear, if it involves the third floor of the Nordstrom building, the mall will have to do it with Nordstrom. Of course, they also have the 180,000 square feet of vacant space in the Belk/Sak's Fifth Avenue/Marshall Field building to work with...


I would say a national retail chain that reliably pays the likely high rent that the Galleria charges and only has one Dallas proper location is "fairly big-name." This mall isn't exactly in a position to thumb its nose at tenants.

And I'm not sure what the vacant Saks building has to do with anything. They haven't been in any hurry to address it, while the Nordstrom 3rd floor closure and the impact it will have is happening fast.


In addition to the Belk closure, the third floor Nordstrom closure will likely create somewhat of a “dead zone” on that side of the mall, now that the area will only be directly accessible through one entrance (the Galleria one, not an anchor) and both department stores will have no presence on that floor. The only thing that would drive foot traffic up there is probably the food court, unless some sort of development happens fast to change that.

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Proquest20
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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Proquest20 » 05 Oct 2022 17:23

Speaking of the Nordstrom, the location still has over 177,723 square feet following the closure of the third floor. The third floor has already been cleared out of merchandise, but when shopping the Galleria store and comparing it to the other area stores, it has 187 results for women’s designer clothing, compared to Stonebriar (77 results) and NorthPark (2,272 results). Obviously this shows that the demographic who shops at the Galleria has changed, and that Nordstrom does not want both NorthPark and the Galleria locations to directly compete for the same customer, only needing one “flagship” for the area, but the Galleria store still has a better selection than Stonebriar.

(Even though Nordstrom doesn’t consider NorthPark to be a flagship, I’m using it to indicate that it has the most offerings that aren’t typically offered at most Nordstrom stores. The Galleria store used to have collectors on the second floor, but as I noted before, no longer does.)

It sucks that Nordstrom isn’t interested in building new full line stores anymore, because it would definitely be neat to have one, even a small format one, at Clearfork or Hulen.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Tucy » 05 Oct 2022 17:42

Addison wrote:
Tucy wrote:
Addison wrote:
I think to Proquest20's point, it would be in the Galleria management's best interest to work out something with or without Nordstrom to bring life to that wing sooner than later once the 3rd floor is finally closed off, especially since they have at least two fairly big-name tenants who will be negatively impacted by the decline in foot traffic.


Who are the fairly big-name tenants that you have in mind? Forever 21? They also have a second floor entrance, so probably won't be hurt much by any reduction in third floor traffic. The only other store I see on that end of the third floor is Windsor, not what I would consider a big-name (or even fairly big name) tenant.

In any event, sure, it would be in the mall's interest to work something out to bring life to that wing (and for that matter, to bring more life to the whole mall...) To be clear, if it involves the third floor of the Nordstrom building, the mall will have to do it with Nordstrom. Of course, they also have the 180,000 square feet of vacant space in the Belk/Sak's Fifth Avenue/Marshall Field building to work with...


I would say a national retail chain that reliably pays the likely high rent that the Galleria charges and only has one Dallas proper location is "fairly big-name." This mall isn't exactly in a position to thumb its nose at tenants.

And I'm not sure what the vacant Saks building has to do with anything. They haven't been in any hurry to address it, while the Nordstrom 3rd floor closure and the impact it will have is happening fast.


By that definition, 90% or more of the stores in the mall are "fairly big-name". If so, it's pretty meaningless. In spite of saying you don't know what the vacant Belk/Saks/Marshall Field building has to do with it, you seem to have noticed it... They haven't been in any hurry to address it; or haven't been able to come up with a way to address it in 2 1/2 years; It's hard to see how they will suddenly be able to come up with a way to address the issue now. (Especially when one considers that the Galleria owner apparently owns the Belk/Saks/Marshall Field building, but does not own the Nordstrom building)

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Addison » 05 Oct 2022 18:05

Tucy wrote:
Addison wrote:
Tucy wrote:
Who are the fairly big-name tenants that you have in mind? Forever 21? They also have a second floor entrance, so probably won't be hurt much by any reduction in third floor traffic. The only other store I see on that end of the third floor is Windsor, not what I would consider a big-name (or even fairly big name) tenant.

In any event, sure, it would be in the mall's interest to work something out to bring life to that wing (and for that matter, to bring more life to the whole mall...) To be clear, if it involves the third floor of the Nordstrom building, the mall will have to do it with Nordstrom. Of course, they also have the 180,000 square feet of vacant space in the Belk/Sak's Fifth Avenue/Marshall Field building to work with...


I would say a national retail chain that reliably pays the likely high rent that the Galleria charges and only has one Dallas proper location is "fairly big-name." This mall isn't exactly in a position to thumb its nose at tenants.

And I'm not sure what the vacant Saks building has to do with anything. They haven't been in any hurry to address it, while the Nordstrom 3rd floor closure and the impact it will have is happening fast.


By that definition, 90% or more of the stores in the mall are "fairly big-name". If so, it's pretty meaningless. In spite of saying you don't know what the vacant Belk/Saks/Marshall Field building has to do with it, you seem to have noticed it... They haven't been in any hurry to address it; or haven't been able to come up with a way to address it in 2 1/2 years; It's hard to see how they will suddenly be able to come up with a way to address the issue now. (Especially when one considers that the Galleria owner apparently owns the Belk/Saks/Marshall Field building, but does not own the Nordstrom building)


It's not meaningless at all.

No mall that strives to be healthy in 2022 should want a bunch of no-name tenants or a high vacancy rate. The goal should be to attract *AND* keep as many well-known retail chains (they don't necessaey have to be luxury or exclusive) as you can, for a variety of reasons.

And my point was bringing life to that part of the mall doesn't have to be inclusive with work on the Saks space, especially since what they're envisioning for the Saks space is a project that could take years to complete once it begins and addressing the impact of Nordstrom's 3rd floor closure might have a quick fix (for example, maybe Nordstrom would be interested in sub-leasing the space to another tenant).

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Addison » 05 Oct 2022 18:22

Another interesting option could also be to experiment with turning the 3rd floor into a "Nordstrom Rack," while closing the outpost down the street.

47,000 sq. ft. seems to be in line with the size of many "Rack" stores.

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Tucy
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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Tucy » 06 Oct 2022 09:36

Addison wrote:
Tucy wrote:
Addison wrote:
I would say a national retail chain that reliably pays the likely high rent that the Galleria charges and only has one Dallas proper location is "fairly big-name." This mall isn't exactly in a position to thumb its nose at tenants.

And I'm not sure what the vacant Saks building has to do with anything. They haven't been in any hurry to address it, while the Nordstrom 3rd floor closure and the impact it will have is happening fast.


By that definition, 90% or more of the stores in the mall are "fairly big-name". If so, it's pretty meaningless. In spite of saying you don't know what the vacant Belk/Saks/Marshall Field building has to do with it, you seem to have noticed it... They haven't been in any hurry to address it; or haven't been able to come up with a way to address it in 2 1/2 years; It's hard to see how they will suddenly be able to come up with a way to address the issue now. (Especially when one considers that the Galleria owner apparently owns the Belk/Saks/Marshall Field building, but does not own the Nordstrom building)


It's not meaningless at all.

No mall that strives to be healthy in 2022 should want a bunch of no-name tenants or a high vacancy rate. The goal should be to attract *AND* keep as many well-known retail chains (they don't necessaey have to be luxury or exclusive) as you can, for a variety of reasons.

And my point was bringing life to that part of the mall doesn't have to be inclusive with work on the Saks space, especially since what they're envisioning for the Saks space is a project that could take years to complete once it begins and addressing the impact of Nordstrom's 3rd floor closure might have a quick fix (for example, maybe Nordstrom would be interested in sub-leasing the space to another tenant).


No, bringing life to that part of the mall doesn't have to include the Belk/Saks/Marshall Field space, but the fact it has been sitting empty for 2 1/2 years with nothing happening . . . Of course the mall wants to attract and keep as many well-known retail chains as they can. That is just stating the obvious. I want to be a billionaire. . . It should be getting more and more clear to folks - this is a struggling mall. The most likely solution, at least in the short term is to relocate Windsor. Remember, the mall management has told us that they want to reduce the space devoted to fashion and apparel. Watch for a press release from Galleria management telling us the closure of Nordstrom's third floor was a mutual decision in line with the goals of the mall. LOL

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Addison » 06 Oct 2022 13:34

Tucy wrote:
Addison wrote:
Tucy wrote:
By that definition, 90% or more of the stores in the mall are "fairly big-name". If so, it's pretty meaningless. In spite of saying you don't know what the vacant Belk/Saks/Marshall Field building has to do with it, you seem to have noticed it... They haven't been in any hurry to address it; or haven't been able to come up with a way to address it in 2 1/2 years; It's hard to see how they will suddenly be able to come up with a way to address the issue now. (Especially when one considers that the Galleria owner apparently owns the Belk/Saks/Marshall Field building, but does not own the Nordstrom building)


It's not meaningless at all.

No mall that strives to be healthy in 2022 should want a bunch of no-name tenants or a high vacancy rate. The goal should be to attract *AND* keep as many well-known retail chains (they don't necessaey have to be luxury or exclusive) as you can, for a variety of reasons.

And my point was bringing life to that part of the mall doesn't have to be inclusive with work on the Saks space, especially since what they're envisioning for the Saks space is a project that could take years to complete once it begins and addressing the impact of Nordstrom's 3rd floor closure might have a quick fix (for example, maybe Nordstrom would be interested in sub-leasing the space to another tenant).


No, bringing life to that part of the mall doesn't have to include the Belk/Saks/Marshall Field space, but the fact it has been sitting empty for 2 1/2 years with nothing happening . . . Of course the mall wants to attract and keep as many well-known retail chains as they can. That is just stating the obvious. I want to be a billionaire. . . It should be getting more and more clear to folks - this is a struggling mall. The most likely solution, at least in the short term is to relocate Windsor. Remember, the mall management has told us that they want to reduce the space devoted to fashion and apparel. Watch for a press release from Galleria management telling us the closure of Nordstrom's third floor was a mutual decision in line with the goals of the mall. LOL


I disagree it's a struggling mall.

More accurately, it's a poorly managed mall.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Cbdallas » 06 Oct 2022 14:31

I would classify that whole area as a struggling area of Dallas

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R1070
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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby R1070 » 06 Oct 2022 14:42

Cbdallas wrote:I would classify that whole area as a struggling area of Dallas


I definitely think the new development we've seen around the mall has shown signs of promise that the area is on the upswing.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Addison » 06 Oct 2022 17:50

Cbdallas wrote:I would classify that whole area as a struggling area of Dallas


"Define "whole area" and "struggling."

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Cbdallas » 07 Oct 2022 06:46

From Preston to Tollway to Spring Valley to LBJ

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Addison
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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Addison » 07 Oct 2022 12:56

Cbdallas wrote:From Preston to Tollway to Spring Valley to LBJ


So the area that so just happens to have a large concentration of low income housing, right?

And the area that just so happens to have a mall with incompetent management (Trademark) and a huge plot of land owned by an incomptent developer (Scott Beck), yes?

Given once you drive not more than a few minutes in any which direction from the specific area you outlined, you run into country clubs, some of the best private schools in DFW, million dollar homes, Addison and stores such as Whole Foods & TJs (not to mention the specific area you outlined includes a mall which still hosts a modest selection of high-end stores that haven't given any indication of plans to close and a F500 HQ), I have a hard time imagining this part of town as "struggling" despite being sketchy to some.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Cbdallas » 07 Oct 2022 13:28

Perhaps struggling in not right word. What I am trying to say is that compared to everything as you say in all directions is developed and nice. That area now feels empty and undeveloped which is strange for that part of Dallas. I think it is important to get that area developed with something rather than nothing.

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Addison
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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Addison » 07 Oct 2022 14:00

Cbdallas wrote:Perhaps struggling in not right word. What I am trying to say is that compared to everything as you say in all directions is developed and nice. That area now feels empty and undeveloped which is strange for that part of Dallas. I think it is important to get that area developed with something rather than nothing.


Fair enough. Now I agree with where you're coming from.

Unfortunately, there's no silver bullet to make this area less "sketchy" given all the parties involved.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Proquest20 » 08 Oct 2022 19:15

Back to the Nordstrom topic, I visited Stonebriar today (a Saturday) and the location there was pretty dead. I find that the location at the Galleria typically has much more traffic in general. So, rest assured, the Nordstrom there is definitely not struggling.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby mhainli » 09 Oct 2022 12:47

Addison wrote:
Cbdallas wrote:Perhaps struggling in not right word. What I am trying to say is that compared to everything as you say in all directions is developed and nice. That area now feels empty and undeveloped which is strange for that part of Dallas. I think it is important to get that area developed with something rather than nothing.


Fair enough. Now I agree with where you're coming from.

Unfortunately, there's no silver bullet to make this area less "sketchy" given all the parties involved.


Well IMHO there is a small silver bullet that will help the sketchiness - tear down the hulking remnants of Valley View mall. If AMC has no realistic plans to open the theater back up there’s no reason for any of that ugly structure to be there. Once the land is cleared it’s far more likely that the VV development plans will get started, which will improve the area and other redevelopment will follow.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Addison » 09 Oct 2022 13:51

mhainli wrote:
Addison wrote:
Cbdallas wrote:Perhaps struggling in not right word. What I am trying to say is that compared to everything as you say in all directions is developed and nice. That area now feels empty and undeveloped which is strange for that part of Dallas. I think it is important to get that area developed with something rather than nothing.


Fair enough. Now I agree with where you're coming from.

Unfortunately, there's no silver bullet to make this area less "sketchy" given all the parties involved.


Well IMHO there is a small silver bullet that will help the sketchiness - tear down the hulking remnants of Valley View mall. If AMC has no realistic plans to open the theater back up there’s no reason for any of that ugly structure to be there. Once the land is cleared it’s far more likely that the VV development plans will get started, which will improve the area and other redevelopment will follow.


Scott Beck (the incompetent developer I referred to earlier) owns the land and has been responsible for demolishing/developing it the past 10+ years.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby acclar11 » 09 Oct 2022 14:44

Proquest20 wrote:Back to the Nordstrom topic, I visited Stonebriar today (a Saturday) and the location there was pretty dead. I find that the location at the Galleria typically has much more traffic in general. So, rest assured, the Nordstrom there is definitely not struggling.

Nordstrom Stonebriar is a really odd one. The only designer brands they really carry are MCM, Theory, Vince, Lafayette 148, and Tory Burch, and those aren't really even considered to be top-tier brands.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby mhainli » 09 Oct 2022 17:27

Addison wrote:
mhainli wrote:
Addison wrote:
Fair enough. Now I agree with where you're coming from.

Unfortunately, there's no silver bullet to make this area less "sketchy" given all the parties involved.


Well IMHO there is a small silver bullet that will help the sketchiness - tear down the hulking remnants of Valley View mall. If AMC has no realistic plans to open the theater back up there’s no reason for any of that ugly structure to be there. Once the land is cleared it’s far more likely that the VV development plans will get started, which will improve the area and other redevelopment will follow.


Scott Beck (the incompetent developer I referred to earlier) owns the land and has been responsible for demolishing/developing it the past 10+ years.

It’s amazing that AMC would not want out of that building and allow the demo to proceed? But perhaps they do and Beck isn’t making a fair offer and also have no stomach for spending more demo money. They’ve resisted that at every turn…. Hopefully the city will learn from this fiasco and somehow encourage demo before any TIF participation or utility work begins.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Proquest20 » 09 Oct 2022 18:49

acclar11 wrote:
Proquest20 wrote:Back to the Nordstrom topic, I visited Stonebriar today (a Saturday) and the location there was pretty dead. I find that the location at the Galleria typically has much more traffic in general. So, rest assured, the Nordstrom there is definitely not struggling.

Nordstrom Stonebriar is a really odd one. The only designer brands they really carry are MCM, Theory, Vince, Lafayette 148, and Tory Burch, and those aren't really even considered to be top-tier brands.

I don’t think I recall seeing any of those except for Tory Burch while I was there. Even though I shop at the other locations I hope that one doesn’t face the same fate as the North East one.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby I45Tex » 10 Oct 2022 22:14

Dallas is hundreds of square miles. This whole area of town is only 1 square mile or so (2.5 sq. mi. if you expand it to the next grid line northward — so Tollway to Preston and LBJ to Belt Line). Being surrounded by areas in higher demand does show and prove that there is actual potential for this area to join them in being in higher demand…

but I would also desire for there to be an area from which regular citizens can continue to commute to jobs in those surrounding expensive parts of Dallas instead of living farther out, spending less time with their loved ones, and more time on the roads, just to save on rent. The question I would have, then, is how to make this a nice area of Dallas to actually spend time in without making it “nice” in the accompanying sense of “selective/exclusive”

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby dallaz » 12 Oct 2022 16:25

Dallas Galleria will shrink its retail footprint as part of a planned makeover

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... -makeover/

“We’ve been working on a redevelopment plan,” Montesi said at a meeting of the National Association of Real Estate Editors. “There is an addition of a boutique hotel and demolition of the southern 20% of the mall.

“Take down 20% of the mall, add a multifamily tower, an office tower, a boutique hotel and public space,” he said. “That’s what people want now — mixed-use.”


The 20-story apartment tower would have about 250 units.

And the design includes a 20-story, 500,000-square-foot office building.

The 16-story hotel would have about 180 rooms.


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I45Tex
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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby I45Tex » 12 Oct 2022 17:24

Well that's certainly a big plan to announce!

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby rono3849 » 12 Oct 2022 17:25

This proposal for the Galleria is not new. A proposal was submitted a few years ago that would include some of these changes, including a new hotel and residential tower. The Gap, Old Navy, & Banana Republic combo took over the old Saks Fifth Avenue store on the South end of the mall, which apparently is destined to be razed. Perhaps that three store combo takes over the old Marshall Field's store on the North end of the mall, along with other displaced stores in the Southern portion of the mall. Frankly, I'm surprised that Dillard's never took over that location. There was a proposal to add a big movie theater to the Galleria, but I don't know if there are any chains that would do it. AMC is just up the Tollway at Belt Line. There's an unused office pad on the Northeast corner of the site just behind Nordstrom, which has been proposed as a residential tower. I think the whole site will look different in the next 5 to 10 years.

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Proquest20
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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Proquest20 » 12 Oct 2022 17:44

It would be really nice if that type of redevelopment would take place at Willow Bend. They would do so good if they could add apartments, hotels, and offices to the development, in addition to the the District and the Equinox that are already there.

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I45Tex
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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby I45Tex » 12 Oct 2022 18:03

The new rendered Galleria hotel on the right sure looks more attached to other buildings on three sides than the purple rectangle placeholder [that stands for it] in the plan diagram appears to be. That appears surrounded by greenspaces.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby I45Tex » 12 Oct 2022 18:06

Proquest20 wrote:It would be really nice if that type of redevelopment would take place at Willow Bend. They would do so good if they could add apartments, hotels, and offices to the development, in addition to the the District and the Equinox that are already there.


would be really nice if that type of redevelopment would take place on the block fronts alongside Sheraton's downtown conference center block, Bryan Tower, Plaza of the Americas' Marriott and the surrounding surface lots!

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rono3849
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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby rono3849 » 12 Oct 2022 19:19

I45Tex wrote:
Proquest20 wrote:It would be really nice if that type of redevelopment would take place at Willow Bend. They would do so good if they could add apartments, hotels, and offices to the development, in addition to the the District and the Equinox that are already there.


would be really nice if that type of redevelopment would take place on the block fronts alongside Sheraton's downtown conference center block, Bryan Tower, Plaza of the Americas' Marriott and the surrounding surface lots!


Very true. I've mentioned before that the Eastside of Downtown is just ugly concrete parking lots. I do hope the the East Quarter can expand into these parking lots and the proposed Rohrman twin-tower development can come to fruition.

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Addison
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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Addison » 12 Oct 2022 19:25

rono3849 wrote:This proposal for the Galleria is not new. A proposal was submitted a few years ago that would include some of these changes, including a new hotel and residential tower. The Gap, Old Navy, & Banana Republic combo took over the old Saks Fifth Avenue store on the South end of the mall, which apparently is destined to be razed. Perhaps that three store combo takes over the old Marshall Field's store on the North end of the mall, along with other displaced stores in the Southern portion of the mall. Frankly, I'm surprised that Dillard's never took over that location. There was a proposal to add a big movie theater to the Galleria, but I don't know if there are any chains that would do it. AMC is just up the Tollway at Belt Line. There's an unused office pad on the Northeast corner of the site just behind Nordstrom, which has been proposed as a residential tower. I think the whole site will look different in the next 5 to 10 years.


EVO is also planning to reopen the old LOOK theatre on Belt Line. That said, pre-pandemic, there were 3 theatres in the area that managed to compete successfully (including the Valley View AMC).

And yes, these are not new plans. The blueprint in the article is interesting though. It seems they want to get rid of *ALL* the retail space except the portion immediately surrounding the skating rink, and of course Macy's/Nordstrom's.

I'm still skeptical they're biting off more than they can chew though.
Last edited by Addison on 12 Oct 2022 19:30, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Addison » 12 Oct 2022 19:26

Proquest20 wrote:It would be really nice if that type of redevelopment would take place at Willow Bend. They would do so good if they could add apartments, hotels, and offices to the development, in addition to the the District and the Equinox that are already there.


I agree that Willow Bend would be a much better fit for this type of project.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby mhainli » 12 Oct 2022 21:56

Regarding this Galleria redevelopment proposal, it is similar to the previous proposal (early 2020) but also more draconian in what is being removed on the south end. Have 2 long winded questions:

1) Is this another conceptual plan, subject to additional changes, with no firm construction start date? The DMN article gives no schedule.
2) Where will the restaurants go that are supposed to support the mall? And where will enough parking go to support the restaurants? IMHO the problem with the two existing restaurants spaces adjacent to the “courtyard” is lack of close parking and no direct connection to the mall. The lack of surface parking at the Galleria is a challenge, but the Grand Lux set up on the north end should be a model for a more synergistic restaurant connection to the mall: menu on display for shoppers and bathroom close to the mall… :D

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby rono3849 » 12 Oct 2022 22:28

https://dallascityhall.com/departments/ ... mittal.pdf

This was the original proposal. The addition of an office tower & residential tower is a big change, plus the complete razing of the Southern end of the mall including the Gap, Old Navy, & Banana Republic anchor stores. You can also see what they had planned for the old Marshall Field's store.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Cbdallas » 13 Oct 2022 11:05

I wish they would go heavier on apartment towers maybe two or three instead of one. That would help with sustainability of the stores and restaurants.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby mhainli » 13 Oct 2022 11:31

One big flaw in this new concept plan is the lack of retail parking on the south end where all the demo is. The mall entrance is pushed north and the parking is pushed south IF the Blue Garage is available at all (appears to serve the office building). If it’s not available then where will the parking be? The small number of spaces underground on the tollway side? This is a very curious decision by Trademark to push mall traffic to the Macys or Nordstrom garages instead of providing something at the highest profile and accessible corner of the development. I-635 and the Tollway is a Main and Main intersection that deserves something more special than 4 more towers crammed in. Will the mall even be visible from the hundreds of thousands of cars passing by? Maximizing developable land on the the south end at the expense of mall improvements and accessibility is very short sided and not what the Galleria needs. Some of what’s shown is good but a balanced approach and a big picture consideration is needed and being missed by Trademark.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 13 Oct 2022 12:26

I think the main thrust here is that we are trying to shoehorn modern shopping/living/working preferences into an outdated form. Trademark and UBS is trying to be new and outdated at the same time, and it generally gets more outdated every month they wait to tear down and build. They have a bunch of ingredients, like if you are making a cake, but if you mix them wrong using the wrong method, you get green lime jello with blacked sugar coating. Nothing like what you started with but not something that anyone really wants either but technically edible.

If redevelopment was easy everyone would do it. As armchair critics as we all are here on the forum taking into all the considerations is hard. No wonder 95% of developers go to burbs pick out empty land and build strip centers, build-to-suit concrete lean wall office buildings, and stand-alone drive-thru restaurants all separated by easily poured concrete parking lots and limited landscaping.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Addison » 13 Oct 2022 12:57

What bothers me about this whole thing is that the Galleria is still, on the whole, a healthy & vibrant mall. It's not as though the place is on its death bed like Music City Mall or Shops ar Willow Bend. Trademark is essentially throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Despite some of the dour posts on here, both the Macy's and Nordstrom's there are still the 2nd best performing in the Metroplex, the mall is still managing to attract/retain prominent national retailers, and it's still in an ideal/central location (the affluent Tollway corridor) to remain successful in the coming years.

The mall could definitely use a huge renovation, and the sewage/parking problems we've heard reports about should be addressed, but when I see neither Stonebriar or NorthPark having discussions about shrinking retail space nor having trouble attracting new stores, I find it hard to believe the Galleria's can't thrive in its current state going forward with just a bit of TLC.
Last edited by Addison on 13 Oct 2022 14:19, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby I45Tex » 13 Oct 2022 13:16

I agree they should not be tearing down at this point. Rather, visually reach out to the Tollway corridor to engage it. I would buy the aging Parkway Centre strip mall at 13450 Inwood, for instance, and bulldoze it before building a high-ceilinged post-Calatrava indoor skybridge concourse over the Tollway from the ice rink to the 5005 Galleria mixed-use property (pending the latter owner’s permission at any rate). The strip mall site in between Inwood and the Tollway could have some interesting attraction atop a parking garage and maybe ground-floor office or restaurant use.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby mhainli » 13 Oct 2022 13:35

cowboyeagle05 wrote:I think the main thrust here is that we are trying to shoehorn modern shopping/living/working preferences into an outdated form. Trademark and UBS is trying to be new and outdated at the same time, and it generally gets more outdated every month they wait to tear down and build. They have a bunch of ingredients, like if you are making a cake, but if you mix them wrong using the wrong method, you get green lime jello with blacked sugar coating. Nothing like what you started with but not something that anyone really wants either but technically edible.

If redevelopment was easy everyone would do it. As armchair critics as we all are here on the forum taking into all the considerations is hard. No wonder 95% of developers go to burbs pick out empty land and build strip centers, build-to-suit concrete lean wall office buildings, and stand-alone drive-thru restaurants all separated by easily poured concrete parking lots and limited landscaping.

Agree on some of your points - redevelopment is not easy and the owner/developer has to make the numbers work (and we don’t). Furthermore, for them it’s easier to estimate tangible costs (demo, construction, etc) and receivables (office & apt rent, hotel $s) than predict intangible affects of what they’re doing to the site (specifically the mall) as a whole. In other words, if the mall continues to decline (in part because they focused too much on the above tangibles and made a congested site even more so) then it negatively affects everything on the site. I’m no expert and my point in the previous post is not rocket science. Success for malls in this area largely depends on people driving to them and spending money. Making it harder for this group is dumb money. The additional office, hotel, renters, etc will supplement but not replace a well thought out mall. Perhaps UBS/Trademark are more short term focused (build and sell these new buildings) and not so concerned about the mall’s future. Hopefully that’s not the case and Trademark will be vetting these issues with folks that know more than me. It is disappointing that 3 years later we have another plan that doesn’t begin to address the issues the mall has now and overall might make it worse. In 10 more years we could be talking about previous mistakes and more concept plans that remove more retail and stacks in more office and apartments.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby vman » 13 Oct 2022 13:47

Cbdallas wrote:Perhaps struggling in not right word. What I am trying to say is that compared to everything as you say in all directions is developed and nice. That area now feels empty and undeveloped which is strange for that part of Dallas. I think it is important to get that area developed with something rather than nothing.

I've would never describe the Galleria area as "struggling". I just find it extremely economically diverse.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 13 Oct 2022 13:59

Wow, that is the glitziest way to be nice about the mixture of incomes I have seen so far. From week to week, I, too, am economically diverse.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby Addison » 13 Oct 2022 14:21

vman wrote:
Cbdallas wrote:Perhaps struggling in not right word. What I am trying to say is that compared to everything as you say in all directions is developed and nice. That area now feels empty and undeveloped which is strange for that part of Dallas. I think it is important to get that area developed with something rather than nothing.

I've would never describe the Galleria area as "struggling". I just find it extremely economically diverse.


Not just economically diverse, but also racially diverse, which isn't a bad thing in my opinion. That's how cities and "urban" environments should be.

In fact, it's one of the reason I settled on Addison when moving to DFW (besides it being central to everything) versus some homogeneous area like Legacy.

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Re: North Dallas: Galleria

Postby I45Tex » 13 Oct 2022 14:53

Makes sense to me.

In practice, I think a cross-tollway pedestrian corridor would make more of a convenient comfort level for people coming south to exit and turn right rather than having to cross under the overpass and drive further to enter the Galleria entrance/exit traffic.

I also think in form it could resemble the 15th-floor sky street at JR Central and the Hysan wind windows:

https://www.kpf.com/project/hysan-place

https://www.kpf.com/project/jr-central- ... nd-station