Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

GunnerDallas wrote:I've noticed that in the past week, plywood walls with fake greenery have been put up on a couple of lots at the corner of Cesar Chavez and Commerce. I wonder if this could be staging for construction start of the new Isosceles tower.

Thats just Carpenter Park....

What's this?

The fencing on the NE corner of Commerce and Cesar Chavez is for Etta, a restaurant concept from Danny Grant. The fencing has been up for months.

The fencing on the NW corner, pictured above, is a few weeks old. I am not certain what’s happening here.

Steve Brown recently mentioned the Isosceles Tower in the Morning News. I wonder if we'll get rendering released anytime soon?

"On Main Street on the eastern edge of downtown, developer Todd Interests has designed a 47-story, $195 million residential tower. The high-rise would be part of Todd Interests’ East Quarter development."

Has anyone visited the East Development recently? I've driven through it about twice recently and it seems pretty dead, which is definitely not surprising and not a bad thing.

I know a number of people who have visited some of the restaurants here, and it seems like an area that is pretty easy to zip in and out of for a nice meal. Feels like it's sorta in the same boat as the Design District in that there are places worth going to, it's relatively convenient, but no reason to really hang around for too long.

This certainly isn't a bad thing by any means, I think the transformation the area has seen so far is pretty great, and I look forward to more height in this area.

potatocoins wrote:Has anyone visited the East Development recently? I've driven through it about twice recently and it seems pretty dead, which is definitely not surprising and not a bad thing.

I know a number of people who have visited some of the restaurants here, and it seems like an area that is pretty easy to zip in and out of for a nice meal. Feels like it's sorta in the same boat as the Design District in that there are places worth going to, it's relatively convenient, but no reason to really hang around for too long.

This certainly isn't a bad thing by any means, I think the transformation the area has seen so far is pretty great, and I look forward to more height in this area.

There's literally like 2 restaurants and mostly business there. It's never going to be popping off. Need more retail and residential.
Same with design districts. There's no neighborhood services and not enough residential

I have been to National Anthem a number of times. Always packed when we go, reservations definitely recommended. But to be honest, we generally just eat and leave. No reason to really stick around the area, and for safety reasons, we'd prefer not to walk over to Deep Ellum at night. But parking is easy to get in and out.

Any idea what is going on across the street from the lot where the Isosceles tower would be? Tractors moved in earlier this week and have started moving dirt.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:There's literally like 2 restaurants and mostly business there. It's never going to be popping off. Need more retail and residential.
Same with design districts. There's no neighborhood services and not enough residential

Kelley USA wrote:I have been to National Anthem a number of times. Always packed when we go, reservations definitely recommended. But to be honest, we generally just eat and leave. No reason to really stick around the area, and for safety reasons, we'd prefer not to walk over to Deep Ellum at night. But parking is easy to get in and out.

That's about what I would expect and given how new this area is, I think it's perfectly fine. What they have done with the existing infrastructure and buildings looks great, and they already managed to complete a high rise in the area.

Looking forward to more development in this area!

There's currently too many little surface parking lot gaps between the buildings. Hopefully those gaps fill in with good developments to make the area more cohesive and vibrant.

R1070 wrote:There's currently too many little surface parking lot gaps between the buildings. Hopefully those gaps fill in with good developments to make the area more cohesive and vibrant.

Agreed. Small infill projects would be awesome here. Get some lofts, cool retal spaces .. enough w the office already

rono3849 wrote:Steve Brown recently mentioned the Isosceles Tower in the Morning News. I wonder if we'll get rendering released anytime soon?

"On Main Street on the eastern edge of downtown, developer Todd Interests has designed a 47-story, $195 million residential tower. The high-rise would be part of Todd Interests’ East Quarter development."

Update
https://www.constructionjournal.com/pro ... e3437.html

seanmbuckley wrote:Any idea what is going on across the street from the lot where the Isosceles tower would be? Tractors moved in earlier this week and have started moving dirt.

20221215_122953.jpg

Pre-construction staging site? The actual construction site has no area for construction management, equipment etc.

This was taken from an East Quarter video presentation a couple of years ago. The building is in the same location as the Isosceles Tower is supposed to be built. Of course, the actual design might not even resemble the model shown here. The building is supposed to be 47-stories and 545" tall, which is about the same height as the Museum Tower. This kind of development is exactly what the Eastside of Downtown Dallas can use. If the Portman Holdings' Gateway 50-story tower breaks ground as well, that will give even more momentum to this area.

Don’t have a Twitter account but was able to copy the link.
Someone said dirt is starting to move for Isosceles Tower.

https://twitter.com/seanbuckley/status/ ... 14t6eBvXYw

FWIW, the city's permit center tells us that building permits have not yet been issued for this project. (2323 Commerce Street - 2207111106)

Tucy wrote:FWIW, the city's permit center tells us that building permits have not yet been issued for this project. (2323 Commerce Street - 2207111106)

So back to the original question, what are they doing across the street on Commerce if this is not staging?

seanmbuckley wrote:

Tucy wrote:FWIW, the city's permit center tells us that building permits have not yet been issued for this project. (2323 Commerce Street - 2207111106)

So back to the original question, what are they doing across the street on Commerce if this is not staging?

This site correct? The one below Commerce on map? Just wanted to be sure, I don't have an answer however. Certainly seems possible to be staging. The greater we can poke around and find out for sure.

Ok, for whatever reason Sean's attachment wasn't loading for me until just now so I've answered my own question. Hmm, maybe it's unrelated to Isosceles.

Tucy wrote:FWIW, the city's permit center tells us that building permits have not yet been issued for this project. (2323 Commerce Street - 2207111106)

To clarify, while the permits still show as new on the city's website (which suggest they haven't been issued), the developer has applied for them (back in July).

It's an important clarification to make, because it shows they're at least serious with moving forward and it might just be held up by the clusterfuck that is Dallas' building permit process.

That said, I wonder if they have at least given permits for land disturbance and/or infrastructure (thus the signs of construction we're seeing)...?

Addison wrote:

Tucy wrote:FWIW, the city's permit center tells us that building permits have not yet been issued for this project. (2323 Commerce Street - 2207111106)

To clarify, while the permits still show as new on the city's website (which suggest they haven't been issued), the developer has applied for them (back in July).

It's an important clarification to make, because it shows they're at least serious with moving forward and it might just be held up by the clusterfuck that is Dallas' building permit process.

Correct, as I posted on the prior page. Application for building permits was made on July 11, 2022. Just checked again... nothing issued as of today.

Addison wrote:That said, I wonder if they have at least given permits for land disturbance and/or infrastructure (thus the signs of construction we're seeing)...?

Are the "signs of construction we're seeing" the dirt movement on the south side of Commerce Street? Strikes me as unlikely to be related to the Isosceles project. Why would they do a bunch of dirt movement for a lay-down yard/construction staging site? The activity looks more like they might be getting ready to build more townhomes.

Tucy wrote:

Addison wrote:That said, I wonder if they have at least given permits for land disturbance and/or infrastructure (thus the signs of construction we're seeing)...?

Are the "signs of construction we're seeing" the dirt movement on the south side of Commerce Street? Strikes me as unlikely to be related to the Isosceles project. Why would they do a bunch of dirt movement for a lay-down yard/construction staging site? The activity looks more like they might be getting ready to build more townhomes.

I'm just going off the tweet referenced earlier. Not sure how credible it is.

And I have seen developers technically "move dirt" on projects where actual construction might not happen for several more months. There's supposedly a tax advatange to it. And with it being the end of the year, that reason would check out.

Addison wrote:

Tucy wrote:

Addison wrote:That said, I wonder if they have at least given permits for land disturbance and/or infrastructure (thus the signs of construction we're seeing)...?

Are the "signs of construction we're seeing" the dirt movement on the south side of Commerce Street? Strikes me as unlikely to be related to the Isosceles project. Why would they do a bunch of dirt movement for a lay-down yard/construction staging site? The activity looks more like they might be getting ready to build more townhomes.

I'm just going off the tweet referenced earlier. Not sure how credible it is.

And I have seen developers technically "move dirt" on projects where actual construction might not happen for several more months. There's supposedly a tax advatange to it. And with it being the end of the year, that reason would check out.

What would be the possible tax advantage? Hard to imagine what that might be...

Tucy wrote:

Addison wrote:

Tucy wrote:
Are the "signs of construction we're seeing" the dirt movement on the south side of Commerce Street? Strikes me as unlikely to be related to the Isosceles project. Why would they do a bunch of dirt movement for a lay-down yard/construction staging site? The activity looks more like they might be getting ready to build more townhomes.

I'm just going off the tweet referenced earlier. Not sure how credible it is.

And I have seen developers technically "move dirt" on projects where actual construction might not happen for several more months. There's supposedly a tax advatange to it. And with it being the end of the year, that reason would check out.

What would be the possible tax advantage? Hard to imagine what that might be...

If I had to guess, it might have to do with how/when they can deduct and depreciate the material & equipment used.

Updated pic of the construction as of this afternoon. Looks like this will be for new townhomes

Hmmm... who woulda thought?

seanmbuckley wrote:Updated pic of the construction as of this afternoon. Looks like this will be for new townhomes

EQ.png

The initial plumbing was installed for the original townhomes planned, then the project stalled. With that work done, this should move pretty quickly.

A pox on both their townhouses

Has anyone seen a rendering of the Isosceles tower?

RodB wrote:Has anyone seen a rendering of the Isosceles tower?

Nope.

https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 7877&row=1

FAA approved the height in 2021.

Kelley USA wrote:I have been to National Anthem a number of times. Always packed when we go, reservations definitely recommended. But to be honest, we generally just eat and leave. No reason to really stick around the area, and for safety reasons, we'd prefer not to walk over to Deep Ellum at night. But parking is easy to get in and out.

Respectfully - I'd like to address some of the comments about 1) Restaurants/retail and 2) Safety i've read in this thread. Thanks in advance for taking the time to read it:

1) Restaurants: firstly, the numbers I'm seeing here are wrong. More on that in a minute. Nick Badovinus is "the man" locally and what makes him so successful are his Placemaking skills. Not just the vibe of his spaces, but also his long game vision about the parts of town he commits to. That says a lot in and of itself because he does not miss. Fun Fact: did you know that he is more invested in East Quarter than just 3 restaurants - he is literally invested in the whole area. Literally, can't say much more than that. He has National Anthem and Brass Ram open in the flatiron magnolia building. PopTop, the rooftop deck, will open in the spring. It's fully built and ready to go, but you dont open an open air spot in Winter.

In addition to his 3 spots, East Quarter has: Etta (the WhatIf Syndicate guys from Chicago; pretty successful at Monarch and Kessaku; buildout under way. 3Q23 opening); Muchacho Tex/Mex (opens 4Q23); Sushi | Bar (speakeasy omekase; from montecito, and also killing it in Austin; construction underway, 3Q23); Cafe Sophie (also the WhatIf guys; an all day European cafe - think Foxtrot; 4Q23). That's 7 Restaurants with diverse menus and price points, and more to come. And the operators are literally the best in the business.

2) Safety: I have reviewed the DPD Incident Reports for all of the Reporting Areas that make up East Quarter. I've done the same for Uptown, Deep Ellum, Design District, CBD/Main Street, Farmers Market etc. Painstaking and line by line. Did you know that EQ, per DPD data, is significantly safer than Uptown in all categories?

2022 data... M-F from 6am to 8pm: BMV + Stolen Cars...65 in EQ. Uptown - depending on area it's anywhere from 150-200 BMV+Stolen Cars. For dangerous crimes against people (Robbery, Assault)...4 in EQ. Uptown - depending on area it's in the 14-17 range. This is all adjusted for density differences to be fair to these other non-EQ areas. And if you dont filter the data at all..7 days a week, 24/7, any type of Incident/Offense, the data is still more favorable for EQ.

Which makes sense, if anyone's been watching/reading the news. More headlines about crime in Uptown than Deep Ellum. Google it if you don't believe me. For the same reasons as DE...Uptown's gotten a lot more clubby. Ask a young woman who lives there where she goes out for dinners, bars etc,, it ain't uptown. It's dark, not really walkable (i.e. exposed). The sidewalks at EQ are all 12' wide and I think the night lighting is pretty adequate. Also, there are no tall buildings, i.e. places where bad guys can do bad things and not get caught. EQ has none. It's the Jane Jacobs premise defined.

Also, Harwood Park opens in 2-3 months. Carpenter Park opened last Summer. etc. Diversity of place surrounds EQ. Churches, Farmers Market (massive gentrification - people with skin in the game, AT&T DD, Retail like Neiman's, law school, montessori school...poster child for Urbanism design.

Thanks for taking the time to review this, and i accept that there will still be differing POV's. But that's what we're here for, right? Healthy discussions!

Thanks for sharing all of that helpful information! I would absolutely agree that EQ has done a lot of things right for the pedestrian experience including wide sidewalks and plenty of lighting. It's actually pretty incredible how quickly this neighborhood is transforming and I really look forward to seeing it become more and more popular.

When it comes to safety, I personally feel safer when there are other people around. I have done the walk from the Statler to Deep Ellum and it's not bad and I didn't feel in danger, but I just look forward to when more people are walking along these streets which would go a long ways into making me feel safe.

Thanks for the info, TWCRE. Sounds like there is a lot of exciting stuff in the pipeline for EQ.

Every buzzing neighborhood starts somewhere. I saw some photos of Bishop Arts on facebook today, from before it was revitalized. Absolute desolation with most buildings abandoned and in disrepair. The building now hosting Eno's was supposedly abandoned and had its roof caved in. And look at it now! Buzzing every day, with real neighborhood fabric and getting better every year.

EQ will get there too. It sounds like there are a lot of dining/drinking establishments in the pipeline. I would love to see massive amounts of new hotel, residential, and office space to complement it!

300 Pearl

Global architecture firm eyes digs in new downtown Dallas high-rise

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... high-rise/

Paywalled.

News about the company from 2018:

"CallisonRTKL will continue to operate as a separate division within Arcadis" [corporate HQ in the Amsterdam area, US base in the Denver area].

https://www.arcadis.com/en/news/global/ ... in-arcadis

vman wrote:300 Pearl

Global architecture firm eyes digs in new downtown Dallas high-rise

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... high-rise/

Is this just another move within downtown (and a significant down-sizing, from 60,000 square feet to 17,000 square feet)? Or is Arcadis moving its north Dallas office to the East Quarter?

Tucy wrote:

vman wrote:300 Pearl

Global architecture firm eyes digs in new downtown Dallas high-rise

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... high-rise/

Is this just another move within downtown (and a significant down-sizing, from 60,000 square feet to 17,000 square feet)? Or is Arcadis moving its north Dallas office to the East Quarter?

Uhhh I don't know. I just posted it. I didn't know I had to turn in a term paper.

But regarding downsizing... My own company is moving the Dallas location and sometimes downsizing of an office is just practical. We did not downsize in staff; we're actually expanding. However, our old office location had way too many conference rooms, a huge cafeteria, too much storage, a gigantic lobby; monster size printing and mail rooms, and we moved most of our records department offsite. This cut our office space by over 30% So I think a lot of companies are dumping space they don't use or need.
Hell, even when I was searching for a home, some people were surprised I purchased a 2 BR; 2 1/2 bath townhouse. Even I don't want space I don't use; and I use every inch of that townhouse.

vman wrote:

Tucy wrote:

vman wrote:300 Pearl

Global architecture firm eyes digs in new downtown Dallas high-rise

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... high-rise/

Is this just another move within downtown (and a significant down-sizing, from 60,000 square feet to 17,000 square feet)? Or is Arcadis moving its north Dallas office to the East Quarter?

Uhhh I don't know. I just posted it. I didn't know I had to turn in a term paper.

But regarding downsizing... My own company is moving the Dallas location and sometimes downsizing of an office is just practical. We did not downsize in staff; we're actually expanding. However, our old office location had way too many conference rooms, a huge cafeteria, too much storage, a gigantic lobby; monster size printing and mail rooms, and we moved most of our records department offsite. This cut our office space by over 30% So I think a lot of companies are dumping space they don't use or need.
Hell, even when I was searching for a home, some people were surprised I purchased a 2 BR; 2 1/2 bath townhouse. Even I don't want space I don't use; and I use every inch of that townhouse.

Relax. I didn't expect you to know the answer. Just raising the question for anyone who might know (and to point out the lack of information included in the DMN "report". And of course downsizing is done for practical reasons, and as you mentioned, does not necessarily mean downsizing in staff, especially in this new era of WFH (although if they are downsizing from 60,000 to 17,000, it's pretty unlikely they are growing). Nevertheless, it is noteworthy with regard to the market for office space.

It implies that even without more spec office construction underway, the empty space downtown could slowly fill with more daytime workers than were originally officed in the same square footage. Which would work out well for supporting new restaurants and future ground floor retail...

Any whispers about the Isosceles tower? I thought it was supposed to get active before the end of Q1 2023. Just curious.

I45Tex wrote:It implies that even without more spec office construction underway, the empty space downtown could slowly fill with more daytime workers than were originally officed in the same square footage. Which would work out well for supporting new restaurants and future ground floor retail...

Except that a good part of the gain in employees per square foot is because a lot of people will not be in the office every day.

rono3849 wrote:Any whispers about the Isosceles tower? I thought it was supposed to get active before the end of Q1 2023. Just curious.

Building permits still haven't been issued. (Applied for, which is a good sign, but not yet issued.)

Tucy wrote:

rono3849 wrote:Any whispers about the Isosceles tower? I thought it was supposed to get active before the end of Q1 2023. Just curious.

Building permits still haven't been issued. (Applied for, which is a good sign, but not yet issued.)

I just read an article about the horror Sprouts went through to get a building permit from the city of Dallas to build a store in Oak Cliff, which is desperate to get grocery stores to open there. I remember when Dallas used to be a city that encouraged development for the betterment of the city. I guess that process is off the rails now. Unacceptable and ridiculous.

rono3849 wrote:

Tucy wrote:

rono3849 wrote:Any whispers about the Isosceles tower? I thought it was supposed to get active before the end of Q1 2023. Just curious.

Building permits still haven't been issued. (Applied for, which is a good sign, but not yet issued.)

I just read an article about the horror Sprouts went through to get a building permit from the city of Dallas to build a store in Oak Cliff, which is desperate to get grocery stores to open there. I remember when Dallas used to be a city that encouraged development for the betterment of the city. I guess that process is off the rails now. Unacceptable and ridiculous.

It was the developer that was the issue, not Sprouts itself (tenant). Everyone in the area wanted Sprouts, even those opposed to the development plan that was initially presented.

The developer did not want to follow the development rules for that area at all, wanted 2 drive-thru restaurant pads (the community does not want or need any more fast food), failed to provide basic drainage, failed on sidewalks, failed in so many respects. It would have been criminal for the city council to approve the development that they presented (especially when other developments along FTW Avenue complied, such as the retail center containing 24 Hour Fitness and Chipotle which is very nice). But all the desperate neighbors (which I am one of) split into two camps: those who wanted the developer to follow the rules, and those who were so desperate they didn't care about quality/standards/drainage. Most of the people opposed just saw "City Council denies Sprouts" and did not care to read into why the initial plan was denied.

In the end, we are still getting a Sprouts in a MUCH more high quality development, more in line with the standards you would see in North Dallas. There will be bioswales, more trees, lighting that will face inwards and not disturb neighbors, I believe a mural facing FTW Avenue, and an open green space in front of the NON-Drive thru retail pad facing FTW Avenue (although a drive thru use will still be allowed on the rear retail pad).

The developer was just lazy and thought that the development did not have to have high standards since it was in Oak Cliff. We are done with that mentality and I'm glad the city stood up to the developer in this case. The development will be much nicer than initially proposed.

Matt777 wrote:The developer was just lazy and thought that the development did not have to have high standards since it was in Oak Cliff. We are done with that mentality and I'm glad the city stood up to the developer in this case. The development will be much nicer than initially proposed.

Hallelujah

rono3849 wrote:

Tucy wrote:

rono3849 wrote:Any whispers about the Isosceles tower? I thought it was supposed to get active before the end of Q1 2023. Just curious.

Building permits still haven't been issued. (Applied for, which is a good sign, but not yet issued.)

I just read an article about the horror Sprouts went through to get a building permit from the city of Dallas to build a store in Oak Cliff, which is desperate to get grocery stores to open there. I remember when Dallas used to be a city that encouraged development for the betterment of the city. I guess that process is off the rails now. Unacceptable and ridiculous.

Did you even see their proposal? They didn't wanna do jack squat just take up a pad site. Nah, Go elsewhere with that shit.