Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Posted: **10 May 2019 10:17**

Joking aside, has there been any actual push back from the Farmer's Market residents? I guess it's really too soon to say. The downside is, their views might be blocked, but the huge upside is now there is more stuff to do near their homes, and this part of town will actually be worth hanging out in soon enough.

Posted: **10 May 2019 11:47**

Those first six or eight units from the original townhouse developer are the most likely to complain. They aren't as tall as the InTown units, they have a MUCH larger rooftop deck, and other than the DART ROW, they are immediately adjacent to the development. But in the end... it is only eight units. Also, with D2 no longer taking that path, it may be wise for the developer propose building out a small greenbelt/park in the ROW and allow the townhouses to open up to it (if they like). Currently, the front door of those units face directly into a wall/fence, which then has a small parking lot behind it. It really is not a pleasant experience as it stands today. I assume they could provide a small carrot just to soften the blow.

Posted: **10 May 2019 12:14**

Funny, as I was approaching downtown on I-35 a couple days ago I thought about how much the southern side of downtown really needs some new high rises. Seems like everything ever proposed goes on the north side. So much land waiting for some development, projects like this can help redefine how downtown looks from the south.

Posted: **10 May 2019 12:20**

muncien wrote:Those first six or eight units from the original townhouse developer are the most likely to complain. They aren't as tall as the InTown units, they have a MUCH larger rooftop deck, and other than the DART ROW, they are immediately adjacent to the development. But in the end... it is only eight units. Also, with D2 no longer taking that path, it may be wise for the developer propose building out a small greenbelt/park in the ROW and allow the townhouses to open up to it (if they like). Currently, the front door of those units face directly into a wall/fence, which then has a small parking lot behind it. It really is not a pleasant experience as it stands today. I assume they could provide a small carrot just to soften the blow.

The more I study the rendering, it does look like there's decent setbacks and probably decent views of the east west side of downtown and with Harwood Park in that direction it's unlikely to get a high rise. From what I'm hearing the FM residents are pumped about the EQ project in general.

I understand most people here on the forum love new buildings, especially high rises (myself included). It's not unheard of to have a buffer or step up from lower density/low rise to high density/high rise. My original point was there are homes feet from this project. There's no height restrictions and nobody is guaranteed that your neighbor won't build a skyscraper next door but who looking at a map of downtown 5 years ago could ever imagined something like this project happening? It's a testament to the success of the FM redevelopment.

Posted: **10 May 2019 14:21**

I don't understand the push back against high rise development. I live in a townhouse with a slight downtown view but I realize that at anything the block across the street could and should go high rise and I would be all for it. For me it is about living in densely packed urban walk-able core not views. I want to walk to restaurants groceries movies shops and entertainment and transportation and leave my car in the garage all weekend.

Posted: **10 May 2019 14:51**

What makes these NIMBYS even more idiotic is that these sorts of development you know....raises their property values....

Posted: **10 May 2019 15:33**

whit5125 wrote:What makes these NIMBYS even more idiotic is that these sorts of development you know....raises their property values....

What NIMBYS?

Posted: **10 May 2019 19:34**

ArtVandelay wrote:
whit5125 wrote:What makes these NIMBYS even more idiotic is that these sorts of development you know....raises their property values....

What NIMBYS?

Not In My Back Yard

Theyre particularly ferocious around White Rock

I was so excited about the project, i barely even considered any backlash.
Generally an all around good project, great infill.
Given that construction is starting, I would think residents have very little say about existing zoning.
That is very different from the D2 alignments which have open meetings which are supposed to have resident input

That being said, if they are butthurt about their views, they could consider selling at a profit, because I would think their townhome values are going to skyrocket! If I had the money I would buy one. Incredibly valuable houses with large amount of space with a great neighborhood which will only increase in value.

And then with all the money they made, they could just move into the new building, like hermit crabs into a new shiny shell.

Posted: **11 May 2019 11:21**

NIMBY (an acronym for the phrase "Not In My Back Yard"),[1][2] or Nimby,[3] is a characterization of opposition by residents to a proposed development in their local area. It often carries the connotation that such residents are only opposing the development because it is close to them, and that they would tolerate or support it if it were built farther away. The residents are often called Nimbys, and their viewpoint is called Nimbyism.

Posted: **11 May 2019 15:35**

I know what NIMBY stands for. Apparently my comment regarding the this project towering over the townhomes was construed as NIMBYsm. I haven’t heard anybody opposing the project. People I know living in the FM are posting Instagrams saying how excited they are.

Posted: **12 May 2019 23:34**

I imagine for a lot of the pioneers who took a chance on moving into the Farmer's Market area, this development (the tower and also the EQ in general) is a sign of that gamble paying off.

Posted: **16 May 2019 02:34**

Saw 2200 Main today—they have done a remarkable job on the exterior. I never would have imagined that the white paint could be so completely removed and such a fabulous building would emerge from under it.

Posted: **16 May 2019 06:51**

willyk wrote:Saw 2200 Main today—they have done a remarkable job on the exterior. I never would have imagined that the white paint could be so completely removed and such a fabulous building would emerge from under it.

Agreed, but what do you think about the windows? They look odd to me.

Posted: **16 May 2019 09:20**

ArtVandelay wrote:
willyk wrote:Saw 2200 Main today—they have done a remarkable job on the exterior. I never would have imagined that the white paint could be so completely removed and such a fabulous building would emerge from under it.

Agreed, but what do you think about the windows? They look odd to me.

If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, I've been assuming (hoping) they are temporary placeholders. I figure they're waiting until the heavy dem/construnction is done before putting in the new windows.

Posted: **16 May 2019 09:54**

ArtVandelay wrote:I know what NIMBY stands for. Apparently my comment regarding the this project towering over the townhomes was construed as NIMBYsm. I haven’t heard anybody opposing the project. People I know living in the FM are posting Instagrams saying how excited they are.

Nah, NIMBY movement underway. Not only do they dislike the "17 -story mega project" they also despise the "shady" alley way. They are stating "safety" as their main concern.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BxgfbrsADTy ... _copy_link

Posted: **16 May 2019 10:14**

If you don't believe safety is a major concern in that area you are clueless. Thanks to the homeless-industrial complex assaults and property crimes are a daily occurence in that area.

Posted: **16 May 2019 10:54**

Hannibal Lecter wrote:If you don't believe safety is a major concern in that area you are clueless. Thanks to the homeless-industrial complex assaults and property crimes are a daily occurence in that area.

OK but what does that really have to do with building a tower? Basically nothing and I'd argue revitalizing the area and filling it with more people will mitigate the homeless issue somewhat. Although after living downtown for several years I've never had a major problem with the homeless and regularly interact with several of them. Most of the issues with homeless violence seems to be amongst themselves.

Posted: **16 May 2019 11:28**

I fail to see the logical connection between (nice) new development and decreased safety (e.g. from homeless people).

Posted: **16 May 2019 11:52**

I read the SaveTheFarmersMarket statements and the main crux of their argument is that they need that alley when races or parades block their main access points to their residential units. Sweetie if that's the case a new access solution can be devised. That's not a safety argument it simply means a solution needs to be discussed for those occasions.

Posted: **16 May 2019 12:31**

Hannibal Lecter wrote:If you don't believe safety is a major concern in that area you are clueless. Thanks to the homeless-industrial complex assaults and property crimes are a daily occurence in that area.

I don't get what your arguement is here and how it relates specifically to this project, which is what they're protesting..not issues related to homelessness.

Posted: **16 May 2019 12:39**

One thing that people also don't seem to understand is that the pedestrian activity that results from density also results in more feet on the street and eyes on each other. A de facto neighborhood watch, if you will.

As a young woman who has lived in a variety of suburban and (legitimately) urban neighborhoods, I feel safer walking down a city street at nighttime where other people are also walking purposefully, than I do jogging alone in broad daylight on a deserted suburban sidewalk. If I'm murdered, at least there are eyewitnesses.

Posted: **16 May 2019 13:32**

Very true. Walking around busy Manhattan at 2:00 AM feels a whole lot safer than doing so in any deserted neighborhood, urban or suburban.

Posted: **16 May 2019 13:40**

cowboyeagle05 wrote:I read the SaveTheFarmersMarket statements and the main crux of their argument is that they need that alley when races or parades block their main access points to their residential units. Sweetie if that's the case a new access solution can be devised. That's not a safety argument it simply means a solution needs to be discussed for those occasions.

Yeah they should go talk to residents at the Mercantile. Every time there is an event on commerce the garage is inaccessible. They deal with it as the trade off of living in an urban environment where many people have differing needs. If they don't like it they should sell their million dollar town houses and go to the burbs.

Posted: **16 May 2019 21:26**

Retail brochure:
https://shopcompanies.com/properties/east-quarter
https://shopcompanies.com/properties/pdf/east-quarter

Ground floor plan of the mixed-use tower:

East Quarter Mixed-Use Building Floor Plan.JPG

Posted: **29 May 2019 13:52**

935D7E8A-AA97-4B17-B3AD-2D7DA0205B12.jpeg

Anyone see this alarmist IG post??

Posted: **29 May 2019 14:04**

Again, I don't know what these people expect, buying a home in a major city's central business district. There's a really really really good chance something big/tall is going to be built next door.

Posted: **29 May 2019 14:12**

eburress wrote:Again, I don't know what these people expect, buying a home in a major city's central business district. There's a really really really good chance something big/tall is going to be built next door.

I'm honestly shocked there are NIMBYs in the CBD. I would think they would want more development nearby, as that area of town has been completely desolate for quite sometime.

Posted: **29 May 2019 18:20**

NdoorTX wrote:935D7E8A-AA97-4B17-B3AD-2D7DA0205B12.jpeg

Anyone see this alarmist IG post??

Wow, they can’t be serious. This is downtown, what are they expecting to be built?

Posted: **29 May 2019 21:03**

LOL!!!! How dare my view of nearby high rises be obstructed by high rises!

Posted: **30 May 2019 00:31**

Matt777 wrote:LOL!!!! How dare my view of nearby high rises be obstructed by high rises!

hahaha - nice one!

Posted: **30 May 2019 09:44**

I will agree that the design of the structure is imposing but justified in its location to be so massive. The problem is I would simply ask for some design changes that scale the development better to transition to the smaller structures nearby. Keep in mind when I say design changes I am not saying the building has to be smaller but that the way the exterior communicates to surrounding structures.

Think of it like Renaissance Tower which when first built had none of the exterior adornment around the ground floor. The base felt imposing and like it was too big to anyone walking up to it. It was flat glass straight up into the sky which was a post-modernist ideal I believe. Any adornment was wasteful and simply removed simply because it had no functional need. A giant kleenex box for office workers. Later they added some decorative work around the base which while mildly functional did a lot to make the building feel less like a massive asteroid from outer space but more like a part of the developed neighborhood.

I see some of that in their current design but the scale still seems a little massive on the design elements. Tweaks at minimum. Honestly, we know most of this project is about adding a massive parking garage for the entire East Quarter and I wish they would bury more of the garage but I doubt city hall will have that much push back to get that pushed through as a significant change.

Posted: **30 May 2019 11:58**

cowboyeagle05 wrote:I will agree that the design of the structure is imposing but justified in its location to be so massive. The problem is I would simply ask for some design changes that scale the development better to transition to the smaller structures nearby.

I can see your point. I think if you just reverse the building so that its shorter portion is what's facing towards the Farmer's Market, it would go a long way towards easing peoples' concerns and probably make for a nicer aesthetic anyway.

Posted: **30 May 2019 13:16**

I also see your point. It's my biggest frustration with CityPlace tower, too. I want all the density I can get, but if nobody is going to build over that dumdum suburban strip w/ Target and OfficeMax literally next door to CityPlace Tower, let's at least do something to better integrate the tower into its low-density surroundings.

Posted: **14 Jun 2019 15:12**

Developers show off historic building redos in downtown Dallas' East Quarter

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... st-quarter

Posted: **15 Aug 2019 10:13**

Developer clears downtown Dallas site for East Quarter mixed-use high-rise
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... -high-rise

Dallas Todd Interests plans to begin construction before the end of the year on the 17-story building that's part of its East Quarter development along Cesar Chavez Boulevard.

The original Meletio buildings fronting on Cesar Chavez will be preserved as the entry to the new apartment units.

The tower designed by Merriman Anderson Architects will open in 2021.

Posted: **15 Aug 2019 14:01**

This thread has me super nervous because every time there is a new update I fear that it'll be something about a citizens council or HOA being able to jam it up. Good to see that they're making progress as I'm really excited about this one.

Posted: **21 Aug 2019 09:59**

Wonder what we might see here now that Uber is in the hood?

Posted: **21 Aug 2019 10:42**

I'll be curious to see if there's a strengthening of pedestrian/bike connections between the East Quarter and Deep Ellum. It's a short distance, but IMO not necessarily an inviting walk.

Posted: **21 Aug 2019 11:15**

It would seem Uber's introduction to the 'hood would accelerate construction timelines.

Posted: **21 Aug 2019 14:51**

The original townhome residents (North side of Canton) are still bitching about this.

Posted: **21 Aug 2019 17:46**

ArtVandelay wrote:The original townhome residents (North side of Canton) are still bitching about this.

Moves to Downtown. Bitches about Dense projects. What's wrong with people.

Posted: **21 Aug 2019 22:09**

Lord, for real. How strange to find tall buildings being built in a district of tall buildings. Didn't expect that at all.

Posted: **22 Aug 2019 09:51**

The problem this is on the transition line between the quieter shorter Farmers Market area and the busier/taller CBD. The Townhome owners would like this parcel to remain in the lower level of that line rather than the taller side. I do think it sticks out some amoungst all those 1-2 story buildings but I think ultimately something will need to break the wall and it's hard to dictate economics of development of a parcel, rights of a property owner, historical preservation and make an entire established neighborhood happy.

Posted: **22 Aug 2019 13:35**

If SoGood takes off and adds some highrises, the Farmers Market lowrise dwellers could get lucky and see that nook of downtown stay shorter.

Posted: **22 Aug 2019 13:54**

Yea as much as I want to believe in and am rooting for Mike Hoque, I'm not exactly holding my breath on SoGood or SMART District either. Would love to see my skepticism proven wrong.

Posted: **22 Aug 2019 16:56**

Even though Mike Hogue partnered with KDC for the construction side big names like to go to a proven track record type of developer. SMART district is a very ambitious project and Mike Hogue company seems like a smaller developer with big ambitions and Uber may have been born in startup culture but its now run by business types that are less likely to make a leap.

Posted: **22 Aug 2019 17:22**

He does have some great land parcels though

Posted: **02 Oct 2019 14:16**

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... ice-space/

Wow the Masonic temple is now office space and has been renovated nicely!

Posted: **03 Oct 2019 07:47**

Warrior2015 wrote:https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2019/10/02/landmark-former-masonic-temple-now-stunning-downtown-dallas-loft-office-space/

Wow the Masonic temple is now office space and has been renovated nicely!

That's awesome! Great to see the space put to good use, and a pretty cool building.

Posted: **03 Oct 2019 10:16**

It's sad to think the interior really didn't have much architecture interest other than the people and furniture that occupied the space. It's a historical building that on the inside was just a memory. The Scottish Rite building across the street def has more details on its inside worth preserving in that sense. At least if Todd is never able to lease out the space for office the building will have been stabilized and could easily be anything at this point. It could almost be a music venue at this point.

Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

East Quarter: ~24 Building Redevelopment

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