Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

zblevinz555 wrote:Say whatever you want about this project good or bad, but this project(at full buildout) will expand the the ever growing Dallas skyline in a big way. Yea the creativity may not be there with cookie cutter buildings but I believe this project will be the start of a transformative time for Dallas IMO. Looking forward to this project.

Absolutely, and I hope that with the southward momentum, further development will fill in the gap (all those parking lots) between Newpark/Smart District and the Discovery District in one direction and the East Quarter in another.

eburress wrote:

zblevinz555 wrote:Say whatever you want about this project good or bad, but this project(at full buildout) will expand the the ever growing Dallas skyline in a big way. Yea the creativity may not be there with cookie cutter buildings but I believe this project will be the start of a transformative time for Dallas IMO. Looking forward to this project.

Absolutely, and I hope that with the southward momentum, further development will fill in the gap (all those parking lots) between Newpark/Smart District and the Discovery District in one direction and the East Quarter in another.

Great point. The gap may be a little blip but as you say more development will solve that over time. It’s crazy almost three years ago to the day this project was announced(obviously different name and new renderings) and now it’s coming to fruition. I thought this project was buried and now I’m elated to see it moving forward. What a testament to Mike Hoque and those partnering with him in making this project a reality. I could be wrong, but I think Dallas has 86 acres of undeveloped land in the CBD, now 66 with NewPark announced, so there is a lot of untapped potential hopefully yet to come.

This area is by far the most neglected section of DTD. Any attention to this area is a good thing. I do think filling in the surface lots around East Quarter will be more of a game changer for DTD, but this development is also very important to the area. Slowly the different sections of the core are starting to fill in and become more cohesive.

I still wonder about an energy company like Exxon moving a lot of desk jobs to downtown Dallas, a quick train ride to the scientists in Houston. I'd really like one of the other oil giants to ease into downtown Dallas, one of the companies like Chevron with a clear strategy to transition energy generation toward low/no carbon emission.

With all the sunshine and wind and natural gas in Texas, there's really no reason to keep the gasoline flowing when the state could export electricity.

Couldn't agree more, Ace. Socialism destroys everything it touches.

Ace wrote:

Cbdallas wrote:Would love to see this part of Downtown activated.

Never happen. Downtown is located too far away from the bubble that includes the Park Cities, Knox Park, Turtle Creek, and Uptown. Too risky! Downtown has been a shrinking office market for over thirtyfive years. Dallas has an incredible amount of upscale! I don't see future investment in Knox spreading to Henderson. And there is not near enough cheering going on in and around this neighborhood. CAMPAIGNING by way of breaking windows, looting, turning over cars, and shooting people has thrown central Dallas, perception wise, way way back in those black and white video days. Same old social agenda arguing for centralized control implemented from the District of Columbia. Like putting out California fires on national lands from thousands of miles away in Washington.

Socialism? WTF does that have do with this project other than in your opinion it isnot going to be successful?

Ms. Hunt of Crescent fame was a genius along with many more such greats in Dallas real estate history. She once said that, as she saw it, the Turtle Creek area was "downtown" for high-rise living. Meanwhile, downtown Dallas was downtown for office space. So, she looked for the vacuum between these two. That area was a wasteland. Still, others saw the same potential that she saw. There was Southland who gathered land for their own vision. There was Mr. FOX who risked money to build a housing development. He is rarely ever mentioned. There is the similar vision creating the Harwood development hidden in plain sight right next to the Crescent. Uptown Dallas today is downtown. The old downtown and beyond has become somegthing special, but only because of uptown. Sorry.

zblevinz555 wrote:Say whatever you want about this project good or bad, but this project(at full buildout) will expand the the ever growing Dallas skyline in a big way. Yea the creativity may not be there with cookie cutter buildings but I believe this project will be the start of a transformative time for Dallas IMO. Looking forward to this project.

There are five major competing business districts in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. Plano/Frisco is about to explode. LAS Colinas, Southlake, & Westlake are already exploding. There is the Richardson Telecom Corridore, Addison, and so many more office markets along with downtown Fort Worth.
Gee, when one gets to central Dallas, there just isn't much left over to attract businesses away from Uptown to Southern Downtown.
Just saying.

You could just as easily day uptown is simply the most recent expansion of downtown. That's the way I see it.

West Plano/Frisco is already on track to pass the CBD as an employment center. Include the uptown subdistrict in the CBD, and downtown does have a good numbers lead. We're in the middle of a redefinition of the CBD, though, and we should expect the employment numbers to have noteworthy increases just as the population is experiencing.

tamtagon wrote:You could just as easily day uptown is simply the most recent expansion of downtown. That's the way I see it.

Agreed. Isn't that the case in other cities where their 'Uptowns' and 'Deep Ellums' and 'Victory Parks' are all just considered a part of (or an exapansion) of Downtown?

Everytime that this debate restarts, it's learned nothing from the previous rounds. Comparing West Plano Frisco Prosper Celina to the CBD has all the merits of comparing Los Angeles and Orange County to San Francisco.

All of Tarrant County, despite the dirt turned at Alliance, Westlake, Southlake, Panther Island, and so on, put together still has less than 30% of DFW metro office space. That's pretty spread out and spread pretty thin for Fort Worth to be called one of five major competing jobs centers.

^word
It's a fun exercise in learning about the different employment centers, though. One of the most important thing I learned about the CBD/Downtown Dallas in that exercise is that it's really a different sort of employment center, old school, while the incredibly successful West Plano/Frisco and Las Colinas are the, um, new school. The attributes of an old fashioned CBD like Dallas' will not factor very strongly into the matrix for a company landing in WP/F or Las Colinas. Las Colinas with Lake Caroline is trying to evolve into that traditional CBD.

Dallas CBD has been under repair for 20 years - adding parks and residents and pedestrian environment the suburbs can only mimic in retail shopping center. We seem to have finally crossed the threshold in downtown. The companies interested in a downtown setting are taking notice. ATT is such a stable presence to any company looking at the city instead of the suburbs. The deal with Uber is still a question, and CBRE moving to 'greater downtown Dallas' is compelling but really that's just as much as Trammel Crow, Inc coming back home -- nevertheless, that corporate name on McKinney Ave is incredible. Dallas as a city is starting to compete outside the region and it's trading area.

The two Field Street proposals, The Central (former Sam's Club proposal) and Newpark/Smart District are compelling, though I would really have liked to see Shraman South Asian Museum make it.... I think the DBJ had an article about potential for corporate relocations in East Dallas Deep Ellum.

The Lake Cities are creating a new variation of the corporate campus Plano perfected. The thought that North Texas has such a strong variety of employment centers is pretty heady, and part of why the place is growing so fast and steadily.

I45Tex wrote:Everytime that this debate restarts, it's learned nothing from the previous rounds. Comparing West Plano Frisco Prosper Celina to the CBD has all the merits of comparing Los Angeles and Orange County to San Francisco.

All of Tarrant County, despite the dirt turned at Alliance, Westlake, Southlake, Panther Island, and so on, put together still has less than 30% of DFW metro office space. That's pretty spread out and spread pretty thin for Fort Worth to be called one of five major competing jobs centers.

My apprehension involves the city using taxpayer subsidies thrown at future projects in competition with companies that are risking their own borrowed money. Why this impatience to pull development south when private development has proven itself able to explode across the barrier that is the Trinity River both towards the southwest into Norgh Oak Cliff and West toward West Dallas. All this incredible development understands that The Crescent represents the peak of the scale. Not yesterday's downtown.
If this isn't so, I'd like to hear the alternate theory going on.

I agree it's a pernicious trend. It's not much better than in stateline metros like Louisville and Kansas City where incentive deals are just poaching firms back and forth across the line within the same metro. It's gross that anybody convinces themselves that this corporate welfare is a good idea just because they brand themselves as job creators.

However, the theory in DFW is that you build less infrastructure per capita (infrastructure that is then forever expected to be maintained by the public, no matter the cost) to serve new business in existing neighborhoods than in fringe ones, so you are actually going to save money in the future by having the city and metro enjoy a lower burn rate with the same job portfolio. The job creation multiplier of these fringe employers could also be higher if they locate where a higher percentage of existing labor force has the opportunity to apply for those jobs from their existing home. Frisco can boast an efficient commute for those who relocate there, but it can't find the biggest pool of people who would bring the most skill to the job and make the firm more efficient at growth. So you could capture metro synergies longterm, and make the most of them, by bidding more up front to get those firms to be in core rather than different corners of Texas' freshly paved farmland.

Any company with a big workforce in both Dallas and Houston, or considering a big workforce in Dallas and Houston will be drawn to Newpark/Smart District. A 90 minute train ride is a huge incentive, and (so far) does not have depend on public funding.

^could you imagine what could come from HQ relocation of ERCOT to Smart District? The state control of that non-profit entity is genetic, but putting the Texas electric grid operator in a business center is promising and exciting, at least to me. Separating the grid operator from the oil patch bound politicians may be a necessity as the state's power industry moves away from fossil fuels to renewable sources.

There is no reason the state cannot use its mineral wealth in a less destructive, polluting way; the oil will still be pumped, but gasoline will not be needed much in the future. It is a reality that the coal industry never acknowledged and is now suffering. Start the transition from fossil fuels power to renewable power and the state's workforce not only benefits, but thrives. The state is still a net power exporter, but electricity is the commodity rather than oil and natural gas.

Make Dallas the center of this new industry.

If anyone is interested here’s a link to official NewPark website and you can sign up for updates as well.

https://newparkdallas.com/

Anyone know any info on about when the first phase of NewPark Dallas (One Newpark) is to start. Don’t see any info on their link. Did the COVID-19 have any setbacks even though it was announced last October?

DFW wrote:Anyone know any info on about when the first phase of NewPark Dallas (One Newpark) is to start. Don’t see any info on their link. Did the COVID-19 have any setbacks even though it was announced last October?

I think this will be a tough one to bring out of the ground due to its remoteness from the main part of Downtown. It will take a lot of momentum to get it going. JMO.

rono3849 wrote:

DFW wrote:Anyone know any info on about when the first phase of NewPark Dallas (One Newpark) is to start. Don’t see any info on their link. Did the COVID-19 have any setbacks even though it was announced last October?

I think this will be a tough one to bring out of the ground due to its remoteness from the main part of Downtown. It will take a lot of momentum to get it going. JMO.

Wonder what they're waiting on for One NewPark, considering it's a mixed-use tower. Can't remember how much office space was proposed in it off the top of my head, but I feel like they could scale it down and increase the residential component if need be. Regardless, if they're waiting on an office tenant to start, I don't know that I understand that considering residential, hotel, and retail were also parts of the building...

tamtagon wrote:^could you imagine what could come from HQ relocation of ERCOT to Smart District? The state control of that non-profit entity is genetic, but putting the Texas electric grid operator in a business center is promising and exciting, at least to me. Separating the grid operator from the oil patch bound politicians may be a necessity as the state's power industry moves away from fossil fuels to renewable sources.

There is no reason the state cannot use its mineral wealth in a less destructive, polluting way; the oil will still be pumped, but gasoline will not be needed much in the future. It is a reality that the coal industry never acknowledged and is now suffering. Start the transition from fossil fuels power to renewable power and the state's workforce not only benefits, but thrives. The state is still a net power exporter, but electricity is the commodity rather than oil and natural gas.

Make Dallas the center of this new industry.

Not to hijack you or the thread, but I think the notion that oil is going away is a naive pipe dream. Where is the lubrication for our machines going to come from? Where are the plastics we use every day in everything going to come from? Where is our jetfuel going to come from? There are so many things in our everyday lives that use oil which people don't even know use oil. Elon Musk talks about being 'environmentally friendly' and not using fossil fuels in his cars. But guess what his cars are partially made of- plastic. Yes, there are some things that *may* in the distant future be able to replace oil in SOME capacity, but fossil fuels will never totally be able to be replaced.

undefinedprocess wrote:

rono3849 wrote:

DFW wrote:Anyone know any info on about when the first phase of NewPark Dallas (One Newpark) is to start. Don’t see any info on their link. Did the COVID-19 have any setbacks even though it was announced last October?

I think this will be a tough one to bring out of the ground due to its remoteness from the main part of Downtown. It will take a lot of momentum to get it going. JMO.

Wonder what they're waiting on for One NewPark, considering it's a mixed-use tower. Can't remember how much office space was proposed in it off the top of my head, but I feel like they could scale it down and increase the residential component if need be. Regardless, if they're waiting on an office tenant to start, I don't know that I understand that considering residential, hotel, and retail were also parts of the building...

Even if they dropped the office space, financing is probably difficult for this project.

Tucy wrote:

undefinedprocess wrote:

rono3849 wrote:
I think this will be a tough one to bring out of the ground due to its remoteness from the main part of Downtown. It will take a lot of momentum to get it going. JMO.

Wonder what they're waiting on for One NewPark, considering it's a mixed-use tower. Can't remember how much office space was proposed in it off the top of my head, but I feel like they could scale it down and increase the residential component if need be. Regardless, if they're waiting on an office tenant to start, I don't know that I understand that considering residential, hotel, and retail were also parts of the building...

Even if they dropped the office space, financing is probably difficult for this project.

Oh I bet/know. Just thinking out loud. Financing undoubtedly a pain, but really hope they get it figured out, because SoGood & NewPark would be massive for the city. Just hope they don't drop the ball and let these things die. Really want to see both of them get off the ground.

maconahey wrote:

Wow, terrific photos. Thanks for posting them. I'd love to see the Southern side of Downtown come to life

These are the same renders as the ones we got last year, correct? Just asking as I don't see any changes, but could be missing them if there are in fact differences.

These look slightly different to me. Did they make some minor edits?

It looks like the have flushed out some more detail on the tower on the east end of the development. Previously the renderings were focusing on the mixed use tower west end of the plans. The rest of the towers are still kinda just blocks to represent the idea of what they want to build. You flush out more detail when you are trying to market that particular project so I wonder if they are switching gears to the tower on the east side that appears to not have so many other mixed uses. Maybe the push back is that a residential/office/hotel is too much to get moving? Maybe a tower that is only office is what they are hearing?

According to the website's "Team" listing, a lot of players are involved.

I hope this is a sign that it will actually get off the ground.

^ I see what you mean they list 6 architecture firms on the website alone plus a hospitality management company and all the other needed partners so lets hope a Wells Fargo Bank sized player signs on the dotted line so they can get something off the ground.

Maybe I missed it last time, but the website now makes it clear that 1 Newpark is phase one, to be developed by Lanoha Real Estate out of Omaha, and consisting of office/hotel/residential/retail.

https://lanoharealestate.com/projects/

On Lanoha's website you see a handful of large TBD project like this in the works, but no experience having built anything on this scale. Guess we continue to wait and see.

My concern is that somehow it gets built, then it becomes a 40 story loner, half occupied for years not unlike Cityplace.

Tnexster wrote:My concern is that somehow it gets built, then it becomes a 40 story loner, half occupied for years not unlike Cityplace.

If it is a hotel, residential, & office tower, I'd suspect it will be a little move active than Cityplace. Just a hunch.

Cityplace unfortunately suffers from the East of 75 syndrome not in my neighborhood anti development sentiment over there.

Cbdallas wrote:Cityplace unfortunately suffers from the East of 75 syndrome not in my neighborhood anti development sentiment over there.

Yes, the NIMBY mindset is dominate there. They have thrown up barriers for most development for the area continually. I don't know what they expect should be built along one of Dallas' busiest highways.

Yeah, I really hope this gets off the ground, both One NewPark and the rest of the project. I fear that if nothing happens on this, *gag* SoGood in the Cedars won't happen either.

The 20-acre Dallas Smart District (featuring NewPark) and SoGood are both by the same developer. Perhaps less momentum on NewPark would actually lead to more exclusive attention to the Cedars.

Also they are already building apartments in the SoGood project.

We may now know what Newpark has been waiting for . . . subsidies!

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... wn-dallas/

Sadly, Steve Brown managed to give us a whole article on the topic without ever getting around to telling us how much subsidy Newpark asked for (and received). It's almost as if he didn't want to share that information.

http://citysecretary2.dallascityhall.co ... J_RZ11.pdf

The answer appears to be $95.5 Million. Mind you that is "in consideration of the One Newpark Project, a 38-floor, 1,345,845 square foot mixed-use, mixed-income development to be constructed on 1.7 acres . . ." Imagine how much subsidy they'll need to get the rest of the 20 acres developed.

How does the city justify this?

How tall would a mixed-use 38 story building be?

rickbansal wrote:How tall would a mixed-use 38 story building be?

It's kinda hard to even come up with a good guess without even knowing what the mix of uses is going to be...

Tucy wrote:.

How does the city justify this?

Isn't this exactly what a TIF district is intended to do?

rickbansal wrote:How tall would a mixed-use 38 story building be?

I’m highly disappointed with the height of 488’ if this is still the plan they go with. And it being the centerpiece of the project it said in the article? I’m tired of these lowball projects meanwhile Austin is pumpin out 700+ feet towers and a super tall

LBK2013 wrote:

Tucy wrote:.

How does the city justify this?

Isn't this exactly what a TIF district is intended to do?

To subsidize private development projects that cannot make their numbers work in the market? Hmmm... not so sure.

They're still hell bent in landing a tenant for their 1M square foot office space ?!...Did the pandemic not make them reconsider to add more residential?? These developers just so desperate to land something before they start... I'm sure given this, they don't even have financing

Question.....

Are Developers in Dallas more risk averse than Developers elsewhere?

Seems like lots stay for decades because no one takes a risk nowadays...

A developer with plans for a huge mixed-use project on the south side of downtown Dallas is seeking help from the city.

Hoque Global has been working for several years on plans for the almost 20-acre development district near Dallas’ city hall between Canton and Cadiz streets. The centerpiece of the proposed Newpark district is a 38-story office, residential and hotel tower that would be built in partnership with Omaha-based Lanoha Real Estate Co.

Hoque Global asked the city to expand a tax increment finance district that would help pay for the project that stretches from near the convention center to the Farmers Market neighborhood.

The plan was approved Friday by the TIF district board.

“This project has been in works for several years now because we are taking the time to curate exactly what this community wants and needs,” Mike Hoque, CEO of Hoque Global, said in a statement. “Given the opportunity, One Newpark would set the tone for future development in the area and bridge the gap in investment between downtown Dallas and Southern Dallas.”

The TIF funding deal would provide public subsidies to pay for part of the first phase of $400 million development.

Developer and investor Hoque began buying up vacant lots for the project almost a decade ago.

The property was one of the development sites that was pitched to Amazon in 2017 when it was looking for second headquarters office locations. Hoque Global has earmarked the blocks — one of the largest undeveloped areas downtown — for more than a million square feet of office space, 200,000 square feet of urban retail space, thousands of residential units and a hotel. The developer has also been pitching sites for a new educational center.

The Newpark land is just east of the convention center, which Dallas voters will be asked to replace in a more than $1 billion redevelopment plan.

“Downtown Dallas Inc. has long supported the One Newpark vision for a catalytic, mixed-use development for the southern side of downtown,” Jennifer Scripps, president and CEO of the economic development group, said in a statement. “We believe this project will fuel our urban core’s continued growth and development, transforming an underutilized section of downtown.”

City officials and downtown Dallas boosters are hoping that the project will bring new business and jobs to the south side of the central business district.

“With the mix of education and mixed-use buildings coming to Newpark, the district offers one of the best locations in North America for major urban corporate campuses, particularly with the amount of land remaining for future development,” said Steve Van Amburgh, CEO of KDC, which is partnering with Hoque Global on additional buildings in the district. “Companies are looking for these special one-of-a-kind opportunities to make an impact with their facilities and attract top talent.”

Of course renderings don't always turn into reality, but the initial ones appear to show three other towers in the development that are taller than the first tower they gained funding for. Most certainly, these other towers may never be built. The city may take office space in the new tower with its proximity to City Hall, which looks to be jammed. Who knows what may happen to this area if the new proposed Convention Center is actually built. More hotels are certainly going to be built and additional offices may be needed as well. Time will tell if they actually break ground, but it appears to be getting more likely that it will.

rono3849 wrote:Of course renderings don't always turn into reality, but the initial ones appear to show three other towers in the development that are taller than the first tower they gained funding for. Most certainly, these other towers may never be built. The city may take office space in the new tower with its proximity to City Hall, which looks to be jammed. Who knows what may happen to this area if the new proposed Convention Center is actually built. More hotels are certainly going to be built and additional offices may be needed as well. Time will tell if they actually break ground, but it appears to be getting more likely that it will.

The new convention center is highly dependent on voters approving an increase in the hotel tax this November, which frankly I'm not optimistic will happen.

zblevinz555 wrote:

rickbansal wrote:How tall would a mixed-use 38 story building be?

I’m highly disappointed with the height of 488’ if this is still the plan they go with. And it being the centerpiece of the project it said in the article? I’m tired of these lowball projects meanwhile Austin is pumpin out 700+ feet towers and a super tall

Agreed. If accurate, seems like a good portion of the building will be parking. I just can't imagine a 38-story building being that short, especially if there are both residential and commercial floors.

Addison wrote:

rono3849 wrote:Of course renderings don't always turn into reality, but the initial ones appear to show three other towers in the development that are taller than the first tower they gained funding for. Most certainly, these other towers may never be built. The city may take office space in the new tower with its proximity to City Hall, which looks to be jammed. Who knows what may happen to this area if the new proposed Convention Center is actually built. More hotels are certainly going to be built and additional offices may be needed as well. Time will tell if they actually break ground, but it appears to be getting more likely that it will.

The new convention center is highly dependent on voters approving an increase in the hotel tax this November, which frankly I'm not optimistic will happen.

Hotel Tax will applied to Visitors who stay in Dallas Hotels. I see it passing easily.