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Downtown Dallas: Newpark Dallas/Smart District

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eburress
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Newpark Dallas/Smart District

Postby eburress » 29 Oct 2020 07:19

zblevinz555 wrote:Say whatever you want about this project good or bad, but this project(at full buildout) will expand the the ever growing Dallas skyline in a big way. Yea the creativity may not be there with cookie cutter buildings but I believe this project will be the start of a transformative time for Dallas IMO. Looking forward to this project.


Absolutely, and I hope that with the southward momentum, further development will fill in the gap (all those parking lots) between Newpark/Smart District and the Discovery District in one direction and the East Quarter in another.

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zblevinz555
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Newpark Dallas/Smart District

Postby zblevinz555 » 29 Oct 2020 08:12

eburress wrote:
zblevinz555 wrote:Say whatever you want about this project good or bad, but this project(at full buildout) will expand the the ever growing Dallas skyline in a big way. Yea the creativity may not be there with cookie cutter buildings but I believe this project will be the start of a transformative time for Dallas IMO. Looking forward to this project.


Absolutely, and I hope that with the southward momentum, further development will fill in the gap (all those parking lots) between Newpark/Smart District and the Discovery District in one direction and the East Quarter in another.


Great point. The gap may be a little blip but as you say more development will solve that over time. It’s crazy almost three years ago to the day this project was announced(obviously different name and new renderings) and now it’s coming to fruition. I thought this project was buried and now I’m elated to see it moving forward. What a testament to Mike Hoque and those partnering with him in making this project a reality. I could be wrong, but I think Dallas has 86 acres of undeveloped land in the CBD, now 66 with NewPark announced, so there is a lot of untapped potential hopefully yet to come.

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R1070
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Newpark Dallas/Smart District

Postby R1070 » 29 Oct 2020 08:55

This area is by far the most neglected section of DTD. Any attention to this area is a good thing. I do think filling in the surface lots around East Quarter will be more of a game changer for DTD, but this development is also very important to the area. Slowly the different sections of the core are starting to fill in and become more cohesive.

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Newpark Dallas/Smart District

Postby tamtagon » 29 Oct 2020 10:41

I still wonder about an energy company like Exxon moving a lot of desk jobs to downtown Dallas, a quick train ride to the scientists in Houston. I'd really like one of the other oil giants to ease into downtown Dallas, one of the companies like Chevron with a clear strategy to transition energy generation toward low/no carbon emission.

With all the sunshine and wind and natural gas in Texas, there's really no reason to keep the gasoline flowing when the state could export electricity.

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Pinhi
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Re: Dallas Smart District

Postby Pinhi » 29 Oct 2020 11:44

Couldn't agree more, Ace. Socialism destroys everything it touches.

Ace wrote:
Cbdallas wrote:Would love to see this part of Downtown activated.


Never happen. Downtown is located too far away from the bubble that includes the Park Cities, Knox Park, Turtle Creek, and Uptown. Too risky! Downtown has been a shrinking office market for over thirtyfive years. Dallas has an incredible amount of upscale! I don't see future investment in Knox spreading to Henderson. And there is not near enough cheering going on in and around this neighborhood. CAMPAIGNING by way of breaking windows, looting, turning over cars, and shooting people has thrown central Dallas, perception wise, way way back in those black and white video days. Same old social agenda arguing for centralized control implemented from the District of Columbia. Like putting out California fires on national lands from thousands of miles away in Washington.

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citygeek
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Newpark Dallas/Smart District

Postby citygeek » 29 Oct 2020 11:49

Socialism? WTF does that have do with this project other than in your opinion it isnot going to be successful?

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Ace
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Newpark Dallas/Smart District

Postby Ace » 08 Nov 2020 19:54

Ms. Hunt of Crescent fame was a genius along with many more such greats in Dallas real estate history. She once said that, as she saw it, the Turtle Creek area was "downtown" for high-rise living. Meanwhile, downtown Dallas was downtown for office space. So, she looked for the vacuum between these two. That area was a wasteland. Still, others saw the same potential that she saw. There was Southland who gathered land for their own vision. There was Mr. FOX who risked money to build a housing development. He is rarely ever mentioned. There is the similar vision creating the Harwood development hidden in plain sight right next to the Crescent. Uptown Dallas today is downtown. The old downtown and beyond has become somegthing special, but only because of uptown. Sorry.

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Ace
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Newpark Dallas/Smart District

Postby Ace » 08 Nov 2020 20:34

zblevinz555 wrote:Say whatever you want about this project good or bad, but this project(at full buildout) will expand the the ever growing Dallas skyline in a big way. Yea the creativity may not be there with cookie cutter buildings but I believe this project will be the start of a transformative time for Dallas IMO. Looking forward to this project.


There are five major competing business districts in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. Plano/Frisco is about to explode. LAS Colinas, Southlake, & Westlake are already exploding. There is the Richardson Telecom Corridore, Addison, and so many more office markets along with downtown Fort Worth.
Gee, when one gets to central Dallas, there just isn't much left over to attract businesses away from Uptown to Southern Downtown.
Just saying.

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Newpark Dallas/Smart District

Postby tamtagon » 08 Nov 2020 22:38

You could just as easily day uptown is simply the most recent expansion of downtown. That's the way I see it.

West Plano/Frisco is already on track to pass the CBD as an employment center. Include the uptown subdistrict in the CBD, and downtown does have a good numbers lead. We're in the middle of a redefinition of the CBD, though, and we should expect the employment numbers to have noteworthy increases just as the population is experiencing.

DPatel304
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Newpark Dallas/Smart District

Postby DPatel304 » 09 Nov 2020 09:24

tamtagon wrote:You could just as easily day uptown is simply the most recent expansion of downtown. That's the way I see it.


Agreed. Isn't that the case in other cities where their 'Uptowns' and 'Deep Ellums' and 'Victory Parks' are all just considered a part of (or an exapansion) of Downtown?

I45Tex
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Newpark Dallas/Smart District

Postby I45Tex » 09 Nov 2020 09:43

Everytime that this debate restarts, it's learned nothing from the previous rounds. Comparing West Plano Frisco Prosper Celina to the CBD has all the merits of comparing Los Angeles and Orange County to San Francisco.

All of Tarrant County, despite the dirt turned at Alliance, Westlake, Southlake, Panther Island, and so on, put together still has less than 30% of DFW metro office space. That's pretty spread out and spread pretty thin for Fort Worth to be called one of five major competing jobs centers.

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Newpark Dallas/Smart District

Postby tamtagon » 09 Nov 2020 10:52

^word
It's a fun exercise in learning about the different employment centers, though. One of the most important thing I learned about the CBD/Downtown Dallas in that exercise is that it's really a different sort of employment center, old school, while the incredibly successful West Plano/Frisco and Las Colinas are the, um, new school. The attributes of an old fashioned CBD like Dallas' will not factor very strongly into the matrix for a company landing in WP/F or Las Colinas. Las Colinas with Lake Caroline is trying to evolve into that traditional CBD.

Dallas CBD has been under repair for 20 years - adding parks and residents and pedestrian environment the suburbs can only mimic in retail shopping center. We seem to have finally crossed the threshold in downtown. The companies interested in a downtown setting are taking notice. ATT is such a stable presence to any company looking at the city instead of the suburbs. The deal with Uber is still a question, and CBRE moving to 'greater downtown Dallas' is compelling but really that's just as much as Trammel Crow, Inc coming back home -- nevertheless, that corporate name on McKinney Ave is incredible. Dallas as a city is starting to compete outside the region and it's trading area.

The two Field Street proposals, The Central (former Sam's Club proposal) and Newpark/Smart District are compelling, though I would really have liked to see Shraman South Asian Museum make it.... I think the DBJ had an article about potential for corporate relocations in East Dallas Deep Ellum.

The Lake Cities are creating a new variation of the corporate campus Plano perfected. The thought that North Texas has such a strong variety of employment centers is pretty heady, and part of why the place is growing so fast and steadily.

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Ace
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Newpark Dallas/Smart District

Postby Ace » 09 Nov 2020 11:02

I45Tex wrote:Everytime that this debate restarts, it's learned nothing from the previous rounds. Comparing West Plano Frisco Prosper Celina to the CBD has all the merits of comparing Los Angeles and Orange County to San Francisco.

All of Tarrant County, despite the dirt turned at Alliance, Westlake, Southlake, Panther Island, and so on, put together still has less than 30% of DFW metro office space. That's pretty spread out and spread pretty thin for Fort Worth to be called one of five major competing jobs centers.


My apprehension involves the city using taxpayer subsidies thrown at future projects in competition with companies that are risking their own borrowed money. Why this impatience to pull development south when private development has proven itself able to explode across the barrier that is the Trinity River both towards the southwest into Norgh Oak Cliff and West toward West Dallas. All this incredible development understands that The Crescent represents the peak of the scale. Not yesterday's downtown.
If this isn't so, I'd like to hear the alternate theory going on.

I45Tex
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Newpark Dallas/Smart District

Postby I45Tex » 09 Nov 2020 11:46

I agree it's a pernicious trend. It's not much better than in stateline metros like Louisville and Kansas City where incentive deals are just poaching firms back and forth across the line within the same metro. It's gross that anybody convinces themselves that this corporate welfare is a good idea just because they brand themselves as job creators.

However, the theory in DFW is that you build less infrastructure per capita (infrastructure that is then forever expected to be maintained by the public, no matter the cost) to serve new business in existing neighborhoods than in fringe ones, so you are actually going to save money in the future by having the city and metro enjoy a lower burn rate with the same job portfolio. The job creation multiplier of these fringe employers could also be higher if they locate where a higher percentage of existing labor force has the opportunity to apply for those jobs from their existing home. Frisco can boast an efficient commute for those who relocate there, but it can't find the biggest pool of people who would bring the most skill to the job and make the firm more efficient at growth. So you could capture metro synergies longterm, and make the most of them, by bidding more up front to get those firms to be in core rather than different corners of Texas' freshly paved farmland.

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Newpark Dallas/Smart District

Postby tamtagon » 09 Nov 2020 11:54

Any company with a big workforce in both Dallas and Houston, or considering a big workforce in Dallas and Houston will be drawn to Newpark/Smart District. A 90 minute train ride is a huge incentive, and (so far) does not have depend on public funding.

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tamtagon
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Newpark Dallas/Smart District

Postby tamtagon » 09 Nov 2020 13:24

^could you imagine what could come from HQ relocation of ERCOT to Smart District? The state control of that non-profit entity is genetic, but putting the Texas electric grid operator in a business center is promising and exciting, at least to me. Separating the grid operator from the oil patch bound politicians may be a necessity as the state's power industry moves away from fossil fuels to renewable sources.

There is no reason the state cannot use its mineral wealth in a less destructive, polluting way; the oil will still be pumped, but gasoline will not be needed much in the future. It is a reality that the coal industry never acknowledged and is now suffering. Start the transition from fossil fuels power to renewable power and the state's workforce not only benefits, but thrives. The state is still a net power exporter, but electricity is the commodity rather than oil and natural gas.

Make Dallas the center of this new industry.


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