Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Does anyone know anything about this superblock multi-family residential project being proposed by Angela Hunt & Lincoln Properties adjacent to the Katy Trail and Oak Lawn Park?

https://www.facebook.com/events/130402990941574/

It's funny that the whole project in that picture is 6 or 7 floors. The original description of this project was for a 6 floor section and a 10 floor section. It will be nice to see something replace those aging condos.

It's only a matter of time before something replaces the Carlisle Apartments as well.

Looks boring, initially at least. That facebook group says this project is getting $20 million from the City of Dallas. Why?

If these neighborhoods are so hot, why do they need city welfare?

R1070 wrote:It's funny that the whole project in that picture is 6 or 7 floors. The original description of this project was for a 6 floor section and a 10 floor section. It will be nice to see something replace those aging condos.

It's only a matter of time before something replaces the Carlisle Apartments as well.

Could be keeping it low so the Turtle Creek condo owners allow it. Don't want to block their view! The Carlisle Apartments had a fire last month in the building closest to Katy Trail, so if there was a time to bulldoze and redevelop, it's now.

flyswatter wrote:

R1070 wrote:It's funny that the whole project in that picture is 6 or 7 floors. The original description of this project was for a 6 floor section and a 10 floor section. It will be nice to see something replace those aging condos.

It's only a matter of time before something replaces the Carlisle Apartments as well.

Could be keeping it low so the Turtle Creek condo owners allow it. Don't want to block their view! The Carlisle Apartments had a fire last month in the building closest to Katy Trail, so if there was a time to bulldoze and redevelop, it's now.

That is not even close to a good reason for a taxpayer subsidy. If Turtle Creek condo owners want their view preserved, they can pay to preserve it.

I received an e-mail today regarding this project:

Lincoln Property Company has purchased the (now former) Terrace Creek Condominiums on Carlisle @ Hall. They are seeking to rezone and construct a new 6 story, multi-family development project. They also plan to build new public access to Katy Trail.

Angela Hunt, a representative of the group in charge of construction is going to be on-site to present the new project in detail and answer any questions you may have on its potential impact to us and the Turtle Creek neighborhood. If you have any questions or comments or would just like information, PLEASE come join us Thursday evening. Let your voice be heard!

The meeting is taking place in the lobby of my building, so I assume it's just for residents only. Unfortunately I'm out of town, so I won't be able to attend, but I am really hoping this project does not go through. It's such a waste of some really prime real estate.

I wasn't able to attend the meeting, but I did receive a PDF via e-mail with more information on this project:
https://www.scribd.com/document/3840529 ... -CPC-003-1

(Let me know if the link doesn't work. Also, if anyone knows a better site to host a PDF, let me know as well).

DPatel304 wrote:I wasn't able to attend the meeting, but I did receive a PDF via e-mail with more information on this project:
https://www.scribd.com/document/3840529 ... -CPC-003-1

(Let me know if the link doesn't work. Also, if anyone knows a better site to host a PDF, let me know as well).

Link works just fine, thanks!

First of all, I learned that "Shade Studies" exist. Second, and more importantly: "Undergrounded overhead powerlines along Carlisle and Bowen Streets." Overhead powerlines were/are such a blight to an otherwise great neighborhood of State Thomas. I hardly ever walked near Carlisle, but this is good news if it was anything like State Thomas.

I like it! A huge improvement compared to what is currently there. People shouldn't be complaining about this.

It depends on what is important to you the people arguing against this project do have some reasonable objections when you fact in more than just pretty renderings and perceived value.

First of all, I learned that "Shade Studies" exist

Yes they do exist, and it's totally odd to me that in Dallas, shade studies are done to make sure rooms are getting enough sun, not too much. Oh the magic of air conditioning.

R1070 wrote:I like it! A huge improvement compared to what is currently there. People shouldn't be complaining about this.

Worth $20-30 million of free handout money (paid for by hardworking citizens) to the developer? No. If that happens, jail time should be given to whoever is involved. Backroom old Dallas deals like this is why we don't have nice things.

Watiting on this one for a while but I wish it had been taller.

Matt777 wrote:Worth $20-30 million of free handout money (paid for by hardworking citizens) to the developer? No. If that happens, jail time should be given to whoever is involved. Backroom old Dallas deals like this is why we don't have nice things.

Do we still know this is being subsidized? I know originally there was a request for a subsidy, but I have not heard anything since.

Cbdallas wrote:Watiting on this one for a while but I wish it had been taller.

That's my opinion as well. I feel like Uptown is running out of space, and it still seems to lack the density needed to create a lively neighborhood. It's decently lively by Dallas's standards, but we need to aim for much higher than that.

DPatel304 wrote:

Matt777 wrote:Worth $20-30 million of free handout money (paid for by hardworking citizens) to the developer? No. If that happens, jail time should be given to whoever is involved. Backroom old Dallas deals like this is why we don't have nice things.

Do we still know this is being subsidized? I know originally there was a request for a subsidy, but I have not heard anything since.

Hadn't heard that the request was withdrawn. So yes. The developer would have noted that they are no longer seeking free public money since they are trying to push this forward. They haven't said anything, so one would assume that the free corporate welfare handout is still on the table.

Meanwhile, cars across the city continue to sustain damage on the increasingly bad potholes across city streets. We have no money for pedestrian improvements. But we do have $30 million to give to Angela Hunt and her developer buddies for free, for no reason whatsoever.

Nice upgrade and they've clearly done a lot of leg work.

That being said, this will replace a large supply of some of the more reasonably priced housing units in this area. If there is public money on the table (or frankly, even without it, given their need for zoning changes), they should be required to include more than just 15 "affordable housing" units (just 5% of their total).

At this point, I'm not sure how anything in Uptown qualifies for public assistance. The Victory Park TIF/PID/Whatever has another several years before it expires, probably by then, it'll only need to be the West Dallas TIF/PID/whatever. What's left of Oak Lawn (mimus the Uptown subset) should have a TIF/PID/Whatever specifically to maintain 20%(???) affordable housing, new, expanded, upgraded parks and pedestrian infrastructure.

This is one of the best locations in Uptown. I'm okay with if it doesn't provide apartments below market rate, but there's no reason the developer needs public assistance to build it - I think one proposal had such a request, but I don't think the new one does...?

Blewett Approves Lincoln Katy Trail
Despite a flood of opposition letters in Council inboxes and over a dozen well-articulated speeches in opposition by residents and the Oak Lawn Committee representative, a vote at Dallas City Council on Wednesday April 28th approved the Lincoln Katy Trail project with only two Council Members voting to oppose the project, Councilmen Omar Narvaez and Adam Bazaldua.

I received an e-mail saying this project was approved. So is this all that's needed, and now the developers can move forward with this project?

I really hope that is the case, I was concerned there would be too much opposition to this project and it wouldn't happen.

YES! Build up not out.

The amount of grief Lincoln received for this project was ridiculous. Anything is an improvement over what’s currently there. I’m sure the same neighborhood folks are the ones who ran off the Dream Hotel developers.

Based on these renderings, it looks like a nice development that matches the surrounding area developments. I just don’t know what all of the grief was about.

https://www.lincolnapts.com/lincoln-katy-trail/

It could be taller but otherwise this is a very nice looking building. I really like the trail access and the materials with which it would be built. Bring it!

If the folks against this proposal are against the density...what type of vision are we to have for our Central core of the city of it cannot become more dense and walkable? It just doesn’t make sense to me. The PD zoning plan is based on what Dallas was like many decades ago. It’s not exactly aligned with the current growth and urbanization of the city. OLC uses that zoning as a guide, but it needs a major overhaul.

Density is like mass transit.

90% of the people want it...for someone else.

The NIMBYs have an awfully weak case here.

The public passage from Carlisle to the Katy is a very friendly gesture from the developers to the neighborhood.

And at only 6-7 stories, this is a fraction of the height of the other buildings going up around this.

willyk wrote:The NIMBYs have an awfully weak case here.

The public passage from Carlisle to the Katy is a very friendly gesture from the developers to the neighborhood.

And at only 6-7 stories, this is a fraction of the height of the other buildings going up around this.

Yet the media and opponents keep referring to it as a hi-rise to make it sound more imposing. So ridiculous.

I kept getting e-mails about how this project would 'destabilize' the neighborhood. I guess the opponents were trying to convince everyone that if we allow this developer to re-zone this plot of land, then it creates a precedent that other developers can start re-zoning, which isn't fair to past developers who 'played by the rules'. That's the messaging I was receiving.

I'm a little confused though, because I thought most (all?) high-rises in Uptown had to go through a re-zoning process, so I don't get why this one is so different. The Terminal on Fitzhugh didn't seem to have issues building along the trail and their height is comparable to this one.

All we need is to make sure the trees in the parks get enough sunlight.

These condos are vacated and the property is fenced off for demo to start soon.

This is a disappointment it should have at least been 10 stories for density. I don't get why we protect inner urban parts of Dallas from going higher.

OLC & the city worry about "traffic", but then allows a QT to be built right up the street which will attract a ton of cars. Doesn't make any sense to me at all. Such backward thinking.

R1070 wrote:OLC & the city worry about "traffic", but then allows a QT to be built right up the street which will attract a ton of cars. Doesn't make any sense to me at all. Such backward thinking.

It is absolutely mind blowing to me that a QT is being built brand new on that corner across the street from the West Village. What a waste of a prime lot.

turtlecreek wrote:

R1070 wrote:OLC & the city worry about "traffic", but then allows a QT to be built right up the street which will attract a ton of cars. Doesn't make any sense to me at all. Such backward thinking.

It is absolutely mind blowing to me that a QT is being built brand new on that corner across the street from the West Village. What a waste of a prime lot.

It's surrounded on both sides by the Lemmon Avenue expressway so for a spot that a corporate gas station giant would be focusing in on, it's got to be high on the metrics. Lemmon is a major thoroughfare (officially a principal arterial) for Oak Lawn (and areas north and west) which is about as dense and a mix of housing types and mixed uses as there is in Dallas but no light rail stop, the new frequent 23 bus does get you to Cityplace and the Medical District and to Baylor, but outside of the Strip is pretty car-centric.

thelivingworld wrote:

turtlecreek wrote:

R1070 wrote:OLC & the city worry about "traffic", but then allows a QT to be built right up the street which will attract a ton of cars. Doesn't make any sense to me at all. Such backward thinking.

It is absolutely mind blowing to me that a QT is being built brand new on that corner across the street from the West Village. What a waste of a prime lot.

It's surrounded on both sides by the Lemmon Avenue expressway so for a spot that a corporate gas station giant would be focusing in on, it's got to be high on the metrics. Lemmon is a major thoroughfare (officially a principal arterial) for Oak Lawn (and areas north and west) which is about as dense and a mix of housing types and mixed uses as there is in Dallas but no light rail stop, the new frequent 23 bus does get you to Cityplace and the Medical District and to Baylor, but outside of the Strip is pretty car-centric.

Oh no doubt a gas station would do well at that corner, but the proximity to the West Village which is walkable and the M-Line on Cole is begging for something a bit more than a car centric gas station, particularly if the Central Market development ever materializes.

turtlecreek wrote:

thelivingworld wrote:

turtlecreek wrote:
It is absolutely mind blowing to me that a QT is being built brand new on that corner across the street from the West Village. What a waste of a prime lot.

It's surrounded on both sides by the Lemmon Avenue expressway so for a spot that a corporate gas station giant would be focusing in on, it's got to be high on the metrics. Lemmon is a major thoroughfare (officially a principal arterial) for Oak Lawn (and areas north and west) which is about as dense and a mix of housing types and mixed uses as there is in Dallas but no light rail stop, the new frequent 23 bus does get you to Cityplace and the Medical District and to Baylor, but outside of the Strip is pretty car-centric.

Oh no doubt a gas station would do well at that corner, but the proximity to the West Village which is walkable and the M-Line on Cole is begging for something a bit more than a car centric gas station, particularly if the Central Market development ever materializes.

The flip side of this is, maybe having cheap gas here renders having the two price-gouging Shell stations further down McKinney obsolete. It's sad and unfortunate that the highest and best use as development currently stands from a land-use perspective as there is no comprehensive land use policy here is probably an affordable gas station as much as we'd hope otherwise.

I agree that those other two gas stations need to go!

I noticed the building for the QT will be up against the corner of Lemmon and Carlisle which will put the pumps inward facing CVS which is the best solution to the urban nightmare. Atleast it doesn't break up the setbacks along Carlisle.

It looks like there's asbestos abatement work being done on the site.

There was a Shell gas station + car wash on the corner of Lemmon and Carlisle for a long time. There was no convenience store or bathrooms so QT will be somewhat different but overall not a huge change. Agree that it’s an unfortunate use of the land

R1070 wrote:I noticed the building for the QT will be up against the corner of Lemmon and Carlisle which will put the pumps inward facing CVS which is the best solution to the urban nightmare. Atleast it doesn't break up the setbacks along Carlisle.

That's an interesting approach.

The buildings have started to be torn down.

Ground work started this weekend.

Ground work is moving along. Anyone know why the old MADI Museum building across Bowen is fenced off?

R1070 wrote:Ground work is moving along. Anyone know why the old MADI Museum building across Bowen is fenced off?

The old MADI Museum building is gone. Anyone have any news on what's happening there?

Looks like they’re about to start vertical construction along Hall Street, with excavation still underway along Bowen.

Anyone remember all the dissatisfaction with the hole on cole?

Yep.

tamtagon wrote:Anyone remember all the dissatisfaction with the hole on cole?

Definitely.

Lots of vertical construction along Hall Street, and the first crane base is on site. Still working under street level.