Turtle Creek: Four Seasons Hotel & Residences (3001 Turtle Creek)

DPatel304
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Turtle Creek: Four Seasons Hotel & Residences (3001 Turtle Creek)

Postby DPatel304 » 14 Sep 2017 00:22

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3001 Turtle Creek Mixed-Use Tower Receives City Approval

Hillwood Development Corporation has nearly completed the city’s review process for its proposal to construct a 17-story mixed-use office building on one of the last vacant lots next to Turtle Creek in Uptown.

The building is designed to be configured in two wings, with a section that overhangs an outdoor dining area with an oak tree shaded terrace. This restaurant concept is one major reason Hillwood had to go to the City Plan Commission — the current zoning on the site limits restaurant and retail uses to 2,000 square feet, and Hillwood wanted to go bigger.

“The applicant intends to include restaurant(s) on the ground floor, which may require up to 16,000 square feet,” Reeves stated in a May 18 land use statement. Credit goes to /u/chlordane2501 on reddit for the article.

Hillwood also asked for some minor changes to the setback limits, in order to expand the ground area available for restaurant and retail, and that was also allowed.

http://dallas.towers.net/2017/09/13/300 ... -approval/?

Can't wait to see this one developed, since it's been empty for so long in such a hot area.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 14 Sep 2017 08:58

Need to see pics of the garage. They have tucked in away behind the building. Looks like it's going to attached to the building somehow. I wonder if they plan on masking the structure

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby R1070 » 14 Sep 2017 22:31

Love this one and I'm glad they kept a grassy area along Turtle Creek!

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby tamtagon » 15 Sep 2017 08:07

As much as I love the retro architecture -- what exactly is the most appropriate label for this building -- I really want to see stuff that's not a stretch to call ground breaking new style, like that next to The Ritz. Turtle Creek Boulevard is a classic road, one of the best locations for new architecture deep style, at least strong art deco.

This one is interesting, and I certainly like it, but I've seen it before. I'll hold out hope for the end of the block, on Maple across from tragically unappreciated Reverchon Park.

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby The_Overdog » 15 Sep 2017 09:35

Love this one and I'm glad they kept a grassy area along Turtle Creek!


Yeah, office buildings need a lawn for the kids to kick a ball on.

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby DPatel304 » 09 Jan 2020 11:14

Someone told me that they recently sampled the soil here, and determined that the project (in its current form) wouldn't be feasible to build. I think perhaps it's too tall, or that they would need to dig further underground? I'm not sure about the specifics, and I don't know how reliable this information is, but take it for what it's worth.

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby Tnexster » 09 Jan 2020 11:26

Isn't this right next door to the proposed Mandarin?

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby DPatel304 » 09 Jan 2020 11:39

Yes, correct. Again, I'm not sure how reliable my information is. I live in the building across from the street from this, and heard this from one of my residents.

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Kelley USA
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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby Kelley USA » 09 Jan 2020 11:45

Well if you remember the Renaissance on Turtle Creek has been plagued with lawsuits over the building sinking.

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 09 Jan 2020 11:55

Well this is a Hillwood Urban project and they did move ahead with the Victory Park project over this one and the very signature tower they have been marketing for Downtown on the BofA drive-thru site.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby Tnexster » 09 Jan 2020 20:42

Never been a huge fan of this particular design so if it goes away I'm not sure it would be much of a loss.

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby kingpin » 11 Jan 2021 12:57

1/10/21

ImageUntitled by rlopez2011, on Flickr

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby Kelley USA » 15 Jun 2021 12:52

Okay, this is AWESOME news!! Four Seasons coming to Dallas!!

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... nd-condos/

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby eburress » 15 Jun 2021 13:12

Oooh! Excited to see another Pelli tower in Dallas!

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 15 Jun 2021 14:10

Well sounds like this one was driven by the Hotel company wanting to location to their choosing. I am sure many of these other projects on the drawing boards all over have been trying to woo them and failed. Not a bad site for it. Pelli Clarke Pelli should do something nice in terms of design but I am sure it will still be very conservative. Turtle Creek is a nice enough area that they will spend more on the interiors than some world renowned architecture ground breaking exterior. Get ready for the world prettiest tissue box.
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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby potatocoins » 15 Jun 2021 14:13

Right across the street from my place!! I really hope this happens, but I've seen way too many proposed developments not actually come to fruition in the Turtle Creek area.

We still have a big gaping whole from the Mandarin that was supposed to be built here..haha.

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 15 Jun 2021 14:18

And funny enough that's he second time the Mandarin has tried to enter Uptown Dallas. Victory Mandarin and now the defunct Turtle Creek Mandarin. Maybe the Mandarin needs to try somewhere besides Uptown? Mandarin Bishop Arts? Mandarin Deep Ellum? Mandarin Trinity Groves? or even Mandarin South Side? LOL
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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby R1070 » 15 Jun 2021 14:34

This definitely sounds more legit than the proposed office building. It will be interesting to see what happens here. As for the MO…there’s plenty of developments in the pipeline calling for luxury hotel space. Maybe we will still see one here. Same goes for the St. Regis that was previously proposed along the Katy Trail.

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 15 Jun 2021 18:27

Seems legit.

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undefinedprocess
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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby undefinedprocess » 16 Jun 2021 10:21

cowboyeagle05 wrote:And funny enough that's he second time the Mandarin has tried to enter Uptown Dallas. Victory Mandarin and now the defunct Turtle Creek Mandarin. Maybe the Mandarin needs to try somewhere besides Uptown? Mandarin Bishop Arts? Mandarin Deep Ellum? Mandarin Trinity Groves? or even Mandarin South Side? LOL

Honestly, I'd love to see the Mandarin go to Trinity Groves, but that's probably not surprising. Think it'd be so cool to start to get some height over there on that side of the river. Not sure if I'd prefer the design that was used for the Turtle Creek proposal or the Victory Park site more... Definitely the height of the VP project, though. :D

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby tamtagon » 16 Jun 2021 14:33

Highland Park Village, North Park Center, Knox St would all on the table for the next five star hotel, iyam.

Cedars HSR station area for a 1,000+ key convention styled hotel....

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 16 Jun 2021 17:00

North Park?.. I never understood the fascination with putting a hotel on the parking lots... outside of shopping... What's the draw to the area?..that church museum across the street?

You need a car to do anything nearby. The area is surrounded by major roads that are built like highways and an actual highway.
I don't even think there's sidewalks to walk anywhere...not that you would want to.. why?..

Because there's a shitty strip mall and chain restaurants across the street on Park ln and High Schoolers at Cheesecake Factory across the street on NW HWY...

If I'm a high end 5 star hotel, I think twice about going there....idk if my clientele want that experience.
Last edited by Tivo_Kenevil on 16 Jun 2021 17:05, edited 1 time in total.

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R1070
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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby R1070 » 16 Jun 2021 17:05

Most higher end shopping centers have luxury hotel accommodations for travelers. And it’s a good source of additional business from the guests.

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby Addison » 16 Jun 2021 17:08

The Westin at the Galleria is 4 star, so I don't think a 5 star hotel at some place like North Park or along Knox St.would be a stretch.

Highland Park Village would be
stretch though, only because hotels typically want to be near highways, airports or in CBDs.

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 16 Jun 2021 17:11

R1070 wrote:Most higher end shopping centers have luxury hotel accommodations for travelers. And it’s a good source of additional business from the guests.


Maybe you're right... But then what's the reason a mall built in the what ..60's? ..still has parking lots instead of a new high end hotel next door?

Knox st. Seems , to me at least, like a better place for 5-star hotel.

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby Addison » 16 Jun 2021 17:20

Honestly though, in a perfect world, I would like to see some of that surface parking at North Park converted to more retail space to accomodate a Saks Fifth Avenue.

It still bothers me that the 4th largest metro in the country, the largest metro in Texas, a top 10 metro for international migration and the city with the 5th highest concentration of billionaires per-capita apparently can't support their flagship store (and yes, I know there's some politics behind it with Neimans being based in Dallas, but still).

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby itsjrd1964 » 16 Jun 2021 18:57

There have been several negative reactions on FB regarding the residential portion not including affordable apartments. I don't think a developer would want to put cheaper apartments in the same project as a high-end/luxury hotel.

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby Addison » 16 Jun 2021 19:29

itsjrd1964 wrote:There have been several negative reactions on FB regarding the residential portion not including affordable apartments. I don't think a developer would want to put cheaper apartments in the same project as a high-end/luxury hotel.


Meh, every project has a similar negative reaction. Most of the time, that vocal minority isn't enough to derail a perfectly fine (although imperfect) project.

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby I45Tex » 16 Jun 2021 21:06

itsjrd1964 wrote:There have been several negative reactions on FB regarding the residential portion not including affordable apartments. I don't think a developer would want to put cheaper apartments in the same project as a high-end/luxury hotel.


Has that ever been widespread practice in Texas urban development, or is this a case of out of state legislation (NYC more than anywhere else, and maybe a few other expensive major cities) affecting a very vocal local set of people's expectations now?

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby undefinedprocess » 17 Jun 2021 08:57

I will say I am surprised that there hasn't been a hotel added onto North Park yet. I know it's not in the same league and we're talking 4-star and 5-star, but Stonebriar did just get that 18-story Hyatt Regency.

Agree with what Tivo_Kenevil was saying, as a hotel at North Park would basically confine guests to the mall, and if you need to go anywhere else, well, walk. Still would like to see one go up, but think some changes need to be made (in general, not just for hotel guests' sake).

And would still like to see something happen in Knox, hotel-wise.

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby undefinedprocess » 17 Jun 2021 09:25

Based on the specs we have, anyone have any guesses for how tall/how many floors this thing MIGHT be? Just rough guesses.
• 250 hotel rooms
• about 100 luxury condos on the upper floors
• 100,000 square feet of office space

Adding the following for more context.
"Dallas is like the most important U.S. city today. You have New York, San Francisco, but Dallas is the future of this country in a certain way. Dallas is on the ascendancy while most other places are on the descendancy," said Richard Friedman, president and CEO of Boston-based Carpenter & Company.

"Friedman said he wants the Four Seasons Turtle Creek to not only be the best hotel in Dallas but the best in the entire country. He also expects the private residences to become the most expensive housing in Dallas."

So with these condos supposedly going to be the most expensive in Dallas, I'd assume that means they'll be somewhat large, meaning more floor space required, so more floors?

Also, if they're going to be the most expensive in Dallas... Whew. Hall Arts prices are wild, as well as Museum Tower (granted, they're all sold out at Museum Tower). Don't even want to think about asking price for these.

Here's to hoping this does happen, though.

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 17 Jun 2021 16:53

Well you have to give it to them Arts District is a nice place but if you are gonna pay for a million dollar condo probably closer to the Park Cities makes sense. Wealth follows wealth and Turtle Creek is a established old money condo area.
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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby maconahey » 07 Jul 2021 21:45

Structure Summary
Structure Type: Building
Structure Name: Building Point A


Structure Details
Latitude (NAD 83): 32° 48' 19.89" N
Longitude (NAD 83): 96° 48' 15.74" W
Datum: NAD 83
City: Dallas
State: TX
Nearest County: Dallas


Proposed
Site Elevation: 433
Structure Height: 528
Total Height (AMSL): 961


https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 02&row=423

Point B - 529' https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 11&row=422

Point C - 500' https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 12&row=424

Point D - 514' https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 13&row=425

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby R1070 » 07 Jul 2021 22:06

That seems like it would be too tall for a lot that close to Love Field.

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby undefinedprocess » 08 Jul 2021 09:27

Possibly, but maybe due to its alignment with the runways, it wouldn't be a problem. Or maybe, this 528' is just a feeler to see what they're allowed. I'd love to see 500 feet here if possible though, just imagine...

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby Tnexster » 08 Jul 2021 11:18

This would easily be pushing 40 floors at 528, seems optimistic for this location and its proximity to Love Field.

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby CTroyMathis » 12 Sep 2021 10:44

Looks like this one hit the circularized case phase in early August, with heights in the mid to high 400s. You can just follow the same links posted above, they still use the same url.

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby Tucy » 04 Nov 2021 11:27

This hit "determined" status in mid-September. The highest point allowed was 478 feet.

And this project has been very quiet other than the FAA application. Interesting that Steve Brown's article about the sale of land across the street (2999 Turtle Creek) only says that the developers of the Four Seasons have "announced plans." One can usually count on Steve to overstate the status of projects. . .

When announced they made it sound as if this would be moving VERY quickly. We're moving full speed ahead, they said . . . "As soon as we get all the approvals, we’ll break ground". I suppose that might be technically true, but they may have let out the part about having to design the building before seeking approvals . . . And of course get financing, which probably means getting a bunch of people signed up to buy uber-expensive condos.

Anyone heard anything?

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 04 Nov 2021 12:58

I doubt they will wait on condos presales before moving forward. The main driver here is a Hotel and Four Seasons builds their own. I imagine they are designing it currently, will get city hall feedback, submit a final plan for approval and if nothing is really challenged they will able to get financial backing pending city approvals. If you have been reading the city of Dallas is months behind on processing new development proposals etc so the city might be the biggest chokepoint in this case.
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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby Tucy » 04 Nov 2021 13:53

cowboyeagle05 wrote:I doubt they will wait on condos presales before moving forward. The main driver here is a Hotel and Four Seasons builds their own. I imagine they are designing it currently, will get city hall feedback, submit a final plan for approval and if nothing is really challenged they will able to get financial backing pending city approvals. If you have been reading the city of Dallas is months behind on processing new development proposals etc so the city might be the biggest chokepoint in this case.


Not sure what you mean when you say "Four Seasons builds their own"... Four Seasons is not building this or claiming to build this. It's being built/developed by Carpenter & Co (with apparently some participation by the Perot family).

If they are financing it without relying on any condo presales (unlikely), they will have to be carrying a huge chunk of equity.

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby DallasUno » 08 Dec 2021 09:27

This looks great and sounds like they have support of the Oak Lawn Committee as fas as the entitlements they desire.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... tle-creek/

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby willyk » 09 Dec 2021 03:20

Latest renders anyone?

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby eburress » 09 Dec 2021 07:18

Looks awesome! Let's hope this one happens!

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 09 Dec 2021 08:15

They are in the article but they don't have a tower render just ground floor stuff since that's what the Oak Lawn Committee is more concerned about at this meeting. Ill get a copy of them later and add them in if someone doesn't beat me to it later.
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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby R1070 » 09 Dec 2021 19:47

What is the floor count and structure height that's currently proposed?

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby DallasUno » 09 Dec 2021 21:18

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby Tnexster » 09 Dec 2021 21:21

So glad that office project is dead.

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby potatocoins » 11 Dec 2021 16:15

Happy to see this one moving along, but sad that I no longer live across the street from this site.

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby mhainli » 12 Dec 2021 17:21

The $750M dollar amount mentioned seems very high for a one tower project - even a Four Seasons one tower project.

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Re: 3001 Turtle Creek: Turtle Creek & Cedar Springs (240 FT | 17 ST)

Postby Tnexster » 13 Dec 2021 09:17

R1070 wrote:What is the floor count and structure height that's currently proposed?


I believe it is 30 floors