Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Tucy wrote:

Tnexster wrote:Neiman Marcus is moving its Dallas corporate office to Cityplace
Early next year, Neiman Marcus will occupy 85,000 square feet on three floors of Cityplace Tower immediately above the building’s InterContinental Hotel.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ret ... cityplace/

Gotta love Steve Brown's writing -- he writes that the N-M HQ will be "immediately above the building's InterContinental Hotel" as if the hotel is a current thing. At last report, that building will not have an InterContinental Hotel until about 2 years after N-M moves in. Not a big thing, of course, but how hard would it be to [more accurately] write "above the building's planned InterContinental Hotel" or maybe even give contextual information about the planned hotel's status (granted, the latter might actually require picking up the phone).

He's been struggling as of late (increasingly bad writing over the past 6 months)... I'm being nice, so I'll leave it at that, but yeah, it's uh, more painful than usual to read.

Does anyone know the status of the Intercontinental Hotel at CityPlace ??

This is cool video fly through of the landscape proposal:

https://mesadesigngroup.com/portfolio_p ... sign-film/

Neiman Marcus has moved their offices to CityPlace. But the CEO has moved to New York City. . . Doesn't that kinda make NYC the headquarters?

Tucy wrote:Neiman Marcus has moved their offices to CityPlace. But the CEO has moved to New York City. . . Doesn't that kinda make NYC the headquarters?

The answer to that question is technically no, and there are a lot of big companies with similar arrangements (Wells Fargo and Bank of America immediately come to mind).

But yeah, functionally when you hear "HQ," you think of the place where actual decision-making takes place (which would be where the C-Level Executives live/work).

Addison wrote:

Tucy wrote:Neiman Marcus has moved their offices to CityPlace. But the CEO has moved to New York City. . . Doesn't that kinda make NYC the headquarters?

The answer to that question is technically no, and there are a lot of big companies with similar arrangements (Wells Fargo and Bank of America immediately come to mind).

But yeah, functionally when you hear "HQ," you think of the place where actual decision-making takes place (which would be where the C-Level Executives live/work).

It seems the answer, technically, might be yes. Where the CEO is located is where the ultimate actual decision-making takes place. Where the CEO is "quartered" is literally the "headquarters".

Tucy wrote:

Addison wrote:

Tucy wrote:Neiman Marcus has moved their offices to CityPlace. But the CEO has moved to New York City. . . Doesn't that kinda make NYC the headquarters?

The answer to that question is technically no, and there are a lot of big companies with similar arrangements (Wells Fargo and Bank of America immediately come to mind).

But yeah, functionally when you hear "HQ," you think of the place where actual decision-making takes place (which would be where the C-Level Executives live/work).

Where are Wells Fargo and Bank of America CEOs located?

NYC.

Addison wrote:

Tucy wrote:

Addison wrote:
The answer to that question is technically no, and there are a lot of big companies with similar arrangements (Wells Fargo and Bank of America immediately come to mind).

But yeah, functionally when you hear "HQ," you think of the place where actual decision-making takes place (which would be where the C-Level Executives live/work).

Where are Wells Fargo and Bank of America CEOs located?

NYC.

Thanks. But in the meantime, I found it. Actually, it seems Bank of America's CEO is in Boston. Those two seem a slight bit different from the Neiman Marcus situation. They just didn't want to move to the Headquarters city, but they both fly around on company jets and are probably in their HQ officers pretty frequently. I suspect both banks' "Office of the CEO" remains in Charlotte and San Francisco. Not so in the case of Neiman Marcus.

Tucy wrote:

Addison wrote:

Tucy wrote:Neiman Marcus has moved their offices to CityPlace. But the CEO has moved to New York City. . . Doesn't that kinda make NYC the headquarters?

The answer to that question is technically no, and there are a lot of big companies with similar arrangements (Wells Fargo and Bank of America immediately come to mind).

But yeah, functionally when you hear "HQ," you think of the place where actual decision-making takes place (which would be where the C-Level Executives live/work).

It seems the answer, technically, might be yes. Where the CEO is located is where the ultimate actual decision-making takes place. Where the CEO is "quartered" is literally the "headquarters".

No.

The HQ, *TECHNICALLY* speaking, is wherever the registered office is located (which isn't necessarily the corproate office where the CEO works). This is an important distinction because it determine the extent of tax liability for the company and how legal matters are handled.

Tucy wrote:Neiman Marcus has moved their offices to CityPlace. But the CEO has moved to New York City. . . Doesn't that kinda make NYC the headquarters?

BTW, per DMN, even they confirm it's not that unusual as the CEOs of Albertsons and United Airlines also have similar arrangements (in fact, Scott Kirby lives in Dallas).

Tucy wrote:

Addison wrote:

Tucy wrote:
Where are Wells Fargo and Bank of America CEOs located?

NYC.

Thanks. But in the meantime, I found it. Actually, it seems Bank of America's CEO is in Boston. Those two seem a slight bit different from the Neiman Marcus situation. They just didn't want to move to the Headquarters city, but they both fly around on company jets and are probably in their HQ officers pretty frequently. I suspect both banks' "Office of the CEO" remains in Charlotte and San Francisco. Not so in the case of Neiman Marcus.

1. How you do know the bolded for certain with Wells Fargo and Bank of America?

2. Who says the new Neiman Marcus CEO won't also have an "Office of the CEO" in Dallas? The CEO himself in his interview with DMN confirmed he would be traveling back & forth to Dallas as well.

This is really a pointless discussion either way you slice it though, because even if the CEO doesn't live/work in Dallas, Neiman Marcus' registered office will remain in Dallas and Neiman Marcus' administrative function are also staying in Dallas.

Addison wrote:

Tucy wrote:

Addison wrote:
NYC.

Thanks. But in the meantime, I found it. Actually, it seems Bank of America's CEO is in Boston. Those two seem a slight bit different from the Neiman Marcus situation. They just didn't want to move to the Headquarters city, but they both fly around on company jets and are probably in their HQ officers pretty frequently. I suspect both banks' "Office of the CEO" remains in Charlotte and San Francisco. Not so in the case of Neiman Marcus.

1. How you do know the bolded for certain with Wells Fargo and Bank of America?

2. Who says the new Neiman Marcus CEO won't also have an "Office of the CEO" in Dallas? The CEO himself in his interview with DMN confirmed he would be traveling back & forth to Dallas as well.

I don't know for certain. That's why I wrote "I suspect. . ."

Of course the CEO will travel to Dallas occasionally and to other outposts (or hubs) of the company, as the article states. But, also stated in the article, his office will be in NYC.

Addison wrote:

Tucy wrote:Neiman Marcus has moved their offices to CityPlace. But the CEO has moved to New York City. . . Doesn't that kinda make NYC the headquarters?

BTW, per DMN, even they confirm it's not that unusual as the CEOs of Albertsons and United Airlines also have similar arrangements (in fact, Scott Kirby lives in Dallas).

It's more than a bit of a stretch to say Scott Kirby lives in Dallas and more to the point, it's not terribly relevant if Dallas is his "primary" residence or if his Gold Coast mansion in Chicago is his primary residence. His office is in Chicago.

Same with Albertson's CEO. He may keep a condo in Dallas, but his office is in Boise. (And I recently listened to a podcast where they specifically, said: "you moved here, you live here, right?" [referring to Boise, Idaho). Mr. Sankaran responded, "yes, I live here".

So... Albertson's CEO both lives in Boise and has his office in Boise.
United Airlines' CEO has a home in Chicago and has his office in Chicago.
Neiman Marcus's CEO lives in NYC and has his office in NYC.

Addison wrote:This is really a pointless discussion either way you slice it though, because even if the CEO doesn't live/work in Dallas, Neiman Marcus' registered office will remain in Dallas and Neiman Marcus' administrative function are also staying in Dallas.

and the Galleria is not a struggling mall. . .

Didn't mean to press a hot button. Just thought it was something worth considering. By some definitions, the place where the CEO's office is located is ipso facto the company's headquarters. (And having a registered office in Dallas means nothing as to the headquarters location. Every company doing business in Texas has to have a registered office in Texas, so that registered office will remain so long as Neiman Marcus operates stores here).

Tucy wrote:

Addison wrote:This is really a pointless discussion either way you slice it though, because even if the CEO doesn't live/work in Dallas, Neiman Marcus' registered office will remain in Dallas and Neiman Marcus' administrative function are also staying in Dallas.

and the Galleria is not a struggling mall. . .

Didn't mean to press a hot button. Just thought it was something worth considering. By some definitions, the place where the CEO's office is located is ipso facto the company's headquarters. (And having a registered office in Dallas means nothing as to the headquarters location. Every company doing business in Texas has to have a registered office in Texas, so that registered office will remain so long as Neiman Marcus operates stores here).

There's a distinct legal & financial difference between registering to do business in a state and designating a registered office.

The latter would technically be an HQ, as it requires a physical address, all legal documents/communications must be received here, it determines the extent of property/income tax liability for the company and this location must be reported to the SEC. The former doesn't even necessarily require having an office.

So to say that Neiman Marcus' HQ is now "kind of in NYC" is technically and officially incorrect.

Tucy wrote:

Addison wrote:

Tucy wrote:Neiman Marcus has moved their offices to CityPlace. But the CEO has moved to New York City. . . Doesn't that kinda make NYC the headquarters?

BTW, per DMN, even they confirm it's not that unusual as the CEOs of Albertsons and United Airlines also have similar arrangements (in fact, Scott Kirby lives in Dallas).

It's more than a bit of a stretch to say Scott Kirby lives in Dallas and more to the point, it's not terribly relevant if Dallas is his "primary" residence or if his Gold Coast mansion in Chicago is his primary residence. His office is in Chicago.

Same with Albertson's CEO. He may keep a condo in Dallas, but his office is in Boise. (And I recently listened to a podcast where they specifically, said: "you moved here, you live here, right?" [referring to Boise, Idaho). Mr. Sankaran responded, "yes, I live here".

So... Albertson's CEO both lives in Boise and has his office in Boise.
United Airlines' CEO has a home in Chicago and has his office in Chicago.
Neiman Marcus's CEO lives in NYC and has his office in NYC.

The point is, there are many other companies besides Neimans where the CEO doesn't necessarily live/work where the HQ is located.

Tucy wrote:

Addison wrote:

Tucy wrote:
Thanks. But in the meantime, I found it. Actually, it seems Bank of America's CEO is in Boston. Those two seem a slight bit different from the Neiman Marcus situation. They just didn't want to move to the Headquarters city, but they both fly around on company jets and are probably in their HQ officers pretty frequently. I suspect both banks' "Office of the CEO" remains in Charlotte and San Francisco. Not so in the case of Neiman Marcus.

1. How you do know the bolded for certain with Wells Fargo and Bank of America?

2. Who says the new Neiman Marcus CEO won't also have an "Office of the CEO" in Dallas? The CEO himself in his interview with DMN confirmed he would be traveling back & forth to Dallas as well.

I don't know for certain. That's why I wrote "I suspect. . ."

Of course the CEO will travel to Dallas occasionally and to other outposts (or hubs) of the company, as the article states. But, also stated in the article, his office will be in NYC.

The DMN only said he and his family will be moving to NYC, not that his "office" will be there (that's an assumption you're making).

It did also say that the NYC satellite office for Neiman Marcus will become a "hub," but that's not the same thing as saying the CEO's office will be there.

I'm not sure why you're being pedantic about this. I actually agree with you it's weird for a CEO to not be where the HQ is located. But that doesn't mean the CEO's location is "kind of the HQ," and it's an arrangement that's a lot more common than you think.

Addison wrote:

Tucy wrote:

Addison wrote:This is really a pointless discussion either way you slice it though, because even if the CEO doesn't live/work in Dallas, Neiman Marcus' registered office will remain in Dallas and Neiman Marcus' administrative function are also staying in Dallas.

and the Galleria is not a struggling mall. . .

Didn't mean to press a hot button. Just thought it was something worth considering. By some definitions, the place where the CEO's office is located is ipso facto the company's headquarters. (And having a registered office in Dallas means nothing as to the headquarters location. Every company doing business in Texas has to have a registered office in Texas, so that registered office will remain so long as Neiman Marcus operates stores here).

There's a distinct legal & financial difference between registering to do business in a state and designating a registered office.

The latter would technically be an HQ, as it requires a physical address, all legal documents/communications must be received here, it determines the extent of property/income tax liability for the company and this location must be reported to the SEC. The former doesn't even necessarily require having an office.

So to say that Neiman Marcus' HQ is now "kind of in NYC" is technically and officially incorrect.

Companies have to register to do business with the Secretary of State. As part of that process, they designate a registered office. That has NOTHING to do with being a headquarters. (For example, Bank of America's registered office in North Carolina is in Raleigh, not their corporate headquarters. If what you stated were true, Exxon Mobil is headquartered in Austin (where their registered office is).

Addison wrote:

Tucy wrote:

Addison wrote:
BTW, per DMN, even they confirm it's not that unusual as the CEOs of Albertsons and United Airlines also have similar arrangements (in fact, Scott Kirby lives in Dallas).

It's more than a bit of a stretch to say Scott Kirby lives in Dallas and more to the point, it's not terribly relevant if Dallas is his "primary" residence or if his Gold Coast mansion in Chicago is his primary residence. His office is in Chicago.

Same with Albertson's CEO. He may keep a condo in Dallas, but his office is in Boise. (And I recently listened to a podcast where they specifically, said: "you moved here, you live here, right?" [referring to Boise, Idaho). Mr. Sankaran responded, "yes, I live here".

So... Albertson's CEO both lives in Boise and has his office in Boise.
United Airlines' CEO has a home in Chicago and has his office in Chicago.
Neiman Marcus's CEO lives in NYC and has his office in NYC.

The point is, there are many other companies besides Neimans where the CEO doesn't necessarily live/work where the HQ is located.

I have not seen, and you have certainly not demonstrated that "many other companies . . . where the CEO doesn't necessarily live/work where the HQ is located. You proposed 4 examples.

Albertsons: CEO has a condo in Dallas, but also has a house in Boise and says he lives in Boise and works in Boise. (These guys make a LOT of money; they can afford to have multiple houses.)
Bank of America: CEO apparently "lives" in Massachusets, but keeps at least an apartment in Charlotte and his primary office is in Charlotte. He's been criticized for taking the company jet back and forth between Charlotte and Boston too often.
United Airlines: Scott Kirby still has his house in Dallas, but also has a mansion in Chicago. I don't know where he would say he "lives", but his office is clearly at the corporate HQ in Chicago and he clearly spends a lot of time there (probably most of his time).
Wells Fargo: Wells Fargo seems to be an outlier. Their CEO is apparently based in NYC, while their HQ remains in San Francisco (at least for now)

So we know of one corporation where the CEO's work-base is somewhere other than the HQ.

Addison wrote:

Tucy wrote:

Addison wrote:
1. How you do know the bolded for certain with Wells Fargo and Bank of America?

2. Who says the new Neiman Marcus CEO won't also have an "Office of the CEO" in Dallas? The CEO himself in his interview with DMN confirmed he would be traveling back & forth to Dallas as well.

I don't know for certain. That's why I wrote "I suspect. . ."

Of course the CEO will travel to Dallas occasionally and to other outposts (or hubs) of the company, as the article states. But, also stated in the article, his office will be in NYC.

The DMN only said he and his family will be moving to NYC, not that his "office" will be there (that's an assumption you're making).

It did also say that the NYC satellite office for Neiman Marcus will become a "hub," but that's not the same thing as saying the CEO's office will be there.

I'm not sure why you're being pedantic about this. I actually agree with you it's weird for a CEO to not be where the HQ is located. But that doesn't mean the CEO's location is "kind of the HQ," and it's an arrangement that's a lot more common than you think.

You should probably re-read the DMN article. It in fact says his office will be at the NYC Hub (and for what it's worth, they also call the Dallas office a Hub). It's in the very first sentence: ". . . he will be working out of a Manhattan hub office starting later this summer."

This arrangement seems to be a lot LESS common than YOU think. See my previous post. We know of exactly one other company...

Tucy wrote:

Addison wrote:

Tucy wrote:
I don't know for certain. That's why I wrote "I suspect. . ."

Of course the CEO will travel to Dallas occasionally and to other outposts (or hubs) of the company, as the article states. But, also stated in the article, his office will be in NYC.

The DMN only said he and his family will be moving to NYC, not that his "office" will be there (that's an assumption you're making).

It did also say that the NYC satellite office for Neiman Marcus will become a "hub," but that's not the same thing as saying the CEO's office will be there.

I'm not sure why you're being pedantic about this. I actually agree with you it's weird for a CEO to not be where the HQ is located. But that doesn't mean the CEO's location is "kind of the HQ," and it's an arrangement that's a lot more common than you think.

You should probably re-read the DMN article. It in fact says his office will be at the NYC Hub (and for what it's worth, they also call the Dallas office a Hub). It's in the very first sentence: ". . . he will be working out of a Manhattan hub office starting later this summer."

This arrangement seems to be a lot LESS common than YOU think. See my previous post. We know of exactly one other company...

LOL this arrangement is super common and becoming more common in the age of remote working and multiple hub corporate offices. At my last company, the CEO lived in Dallas despite the HQ being on the west coast. At my current company, the C-suite is spread all across the country despite the HQ being on the west coast, though the C executive over my division was in Dallas. But nobody said the HQs are in Dallas just because the leader is there. The corp offices are on the west coast and are appropriately called the HQ. CEOs these days have incredible mobility on where they can live, but the "HQ" does not follow them wherever they go.

The HQ is wherever the company says it is. In the case of Neiman's, it's not even questionable if the HQ is in Dallas. It is. Virtually all of the corporate operations and decision making are in Dallas. This is one of the weakest cases you can find for claiming the HQ is somewhere else, so I'm not sure why you are harping on it.

Neimans probably needs a hub office in New York.

https://www.retaildive.com/news/neiman- ... ic/576205/

Probably too much NY tradition and not enough Dallas in the front office already.

Matt777 wrote:

Tucy wrote:

Addison wrote:
The DMN only said he and his family will be moving to NYC, not that his "office" will be there (that's an assumption you're making).

It did also say that the NYC satellite office for Neiman Marcus will become a "hub," but that's not the same thing as saying the CEO's office will be there.

I'm not sure why you're being pedantic about this. I actually agree with you it's weird for a CEO to not be where the HQ is located. But that doesn't mean the CEO's location is "kind of the HQ," and it's an arrangement that's a lot more common than you think.

You should probably re-read the DMN article. It in fact says his office will be at the NYC Hub (and for what it's worth, they also call the Dallas office a Hub). It's in the very first sentence: ". . . he will be working out of a Manhattan hub office starting later this summer."

This arrangement seems to be a lot LESS common than YOU think. See my previous post. We know of exactly one other company...

LOL this arrangement is super common and becoming more common in the age of remote working and multiple hub corporate offices. At my last company, the CEO lived in Dallas despite the HQ being on the west coast. At my current company, the C-suite is spread all across the country despite the HQ being on the west coast, though the C executive over my division was in Dallas. But nobody said the HQs are in Dallas just because the leader is there. The corp offices are on the west coast and are appropriately called the HQ. CEOs these days have incredible mobility on where they can live, but the "HQ" does not follow them wherever they go.

The HQ is wherever the company says it is. In the case of Neiman's, it's not even questionable if the HQ is in Dallas. It is. Virtually all of the corporate operations and decision making are in Dallas. This is one of the weakest cases you can find for claiming the HQ is somewhere else, so I'm not sure why you are harping on it.

With respect, it would be more persuasive if you named the companies. The other poster thought he knew of a number of companies where the CEO officed somewhere other than the HQ, but they mostly turned out to be not the case.

Wow. Just wow.

citygeek wrote:Wow. Just wow.

For the record, I imagine Neiman Marcus will indeed continue to call Dallas its headquarters. But the CEO being stationed elsewhere is worth mentioning. I recall another retail company whose CEO was stationed outside its home city that claimed an "executive headquarters" and an "administrative headquarters".

Anyhoo, now I"m just curious as to how widespread the phenomenon of CEOs having their offices in a city other than the corporate headquarters is. We've seen claims that it is very common, but so far we've been able to name one company (Well Fargo), where it seems to actually be the case.

I would think being close to all the fashion industry spots in NYC would be a good reason to live in NYC?

Dallas’ Cityplace office tower is next up for apartments
The signature tower north of downtown on North Central Expressway is getting new hotel and rental units.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... partments/

Positive move that more high rise apartments coming on the east side of 75 here.

This should be a huge hit! If this doesn't work, I don't know what will. Can you imagine living in a building with a light rail stop in the basement, a Target next door and a grocery store across the street? There are new restaurants coming as part of The Central development as well.

What will those cool stacked sky lobby atria be used for I wonder

I45Tex wrote:What will those cool stacked sky lobby atria be used for I wonder

Worlds largest and highest indoor rock climbing!

There must be fairly low office vacancy there if they are considering both hotel and apartment uses there. I don't know how the parking garage is arranged (or how many spaces there are), but it may be a bit of a juggle to have office, hotel guests, and apartment tenants all in the same garage.

itsjrd1964 wrote:There must be fairly low office vacancy there if they are considering both hotel and apartment uses there. I don't know how the parking garage is arranged (or how many spaces there are), but it may be a bit of a juggle to have office, hotel guests, and apartment tenants all in the same garage.

I think you meant fairly “high” vacancy. Yes, according to the article linked above, the office space in the building is about 40% vacant, and that’s after Neiman Marcus took two floors for their Dallas offices.

Actually the garage is enormous and lends itself to be portioned off for those uses separately.

Tucy wrote:

itsjrd1964 wrote:There must be fairly low office vacancy there if they are considering both hotel and apartment uses there. I don't know how the parking garage is arranged (or how many spaces there are), but it may be a bit of a juggle to have office, hotel guests, and apartment tenants all in the same garage.

I think you meant fairly “high” vacancy. Yes, according to the article linked above, the office space in the building is about 40% vacant, and that’s after Neiman Marcus took two floors for their Dallas offices.

Oh, d'oh, thanks Tucy. I may have meant low occupancy, but either way, my coffee occupancy was likely very low at the time!

What hotel brand? Is that where Neiman visitors will stay?

tamtagon wrote:What hotel brand? Is that where Neiman visitors will stay?

Hotel Intercontinental I believe…