Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:

Tnexster wrote:I have never been in there, are those donuts any good?

Yes, highly recommend. The donuts are really loaded up with toppings. And they have lots of baked goods on sale other than donuts. They even sell popcorn!

Their hours of operation are good for a donut shop too. They close at 6!

Great to hear! Thanks I will check that out.

Something Unreported is about to go down on greenbriar st. with direct access to the Trinity... More affordable 1M townhomes i presume..

Oh no! Not Banks Stone, used to get all my stone for the yard there. Always figured that would eventually be turned into something else. Ugh

Agreed. They load the donuts up with toppings or custard if you are into that. Also, the prices are surprisingly low for what you get.

https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/TABS/Search/ ... 2021013639

Even though the name uses Bishop Arts, it says this site is at the southeast corner of 30/Beckley. Filling in next to Skyline Trinity I think.

"Banyan Bishop Arts"

CTroyMathis wrote:https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/TABS/Search/Project/TABS2021013639

Even though the name uses Bishop Arts, it says this site is at the southeast corner of 30/Beckley. Filling in next to Skyline Trinity I think.

"Banyan Bishop Arts"

Is this the empty lot next to the new apartments or where the church was?

I'm thinking this one is the empty lot next to the highway and the apts.

California builder kicks off Oak Cliff apartment project
Banyan Residential is working on two new rental communities along Beckley Avenue.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... t-project/

Tnexster wrote:California builder kicks off Oak Cliff apartment project
Banyan Residential is working on two new rental communities along Beckley Avenue.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... t-project/

Still a little confused about the two apartment buildings. One is definitely on Beckley and Julian (apparently the former Dallas County Schools property) and another "on Beckley near Interstate 30" which seems to describe the first location. Steve Brown is descriptive as ever.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/cont ... ormat=750w

This is the one by I-30 (empty lot between the highway and the newly completed apartments. So the other one in the Steve Brown article is where the Dallas county bus depot was. Looks like 3 apartments being built about the same time and one on the other side of I-30.

That's going to become such a cool part of town, with the trolley, park, river access, and proximity to Downtown!

Developer to build $55M luxury apartment complex in popular Dallas district

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... ments.html

Located at 1710 N. Beckley Avenue, the project is in a neighborhood that offers more than 60 locally owned boutiques, restaurants, bars, coffee shops and art galleries – and is a short drive to downtown Dallas.

Hope there's no old wood in that building...

https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-ceo/2021/may/meet-the-couple-playing-real-life-monopoly-in-oak-cliff/

It’s no secret that Amanda Moreno-Lake and Jim Lake Jr. have a vested interest in Oak Cliff. From decades back, when Jim brokered a building for his father in what would become the Bishop Arts District, and through numerous subsequent redevelopments, the couple is playing real-life Monopoly with a combined half-million square feet of property in the neighborhood, including Jefferson Tower and the building that houses Lockhart Smokehouse.

Their latest acquisition of Oak Cliff Tower isn’t just a story about real estate; it’s a tale filled with immense challenges. “This iconic building for us was completing the puzzle we have here,” Amanda says, as we walk through the lobby of the 15-story asset.

The I-30 bridge over the Trinity has its arches lit now and looks a lot better.

R1070 wrote:The I-30 bridge over the Trinity has its arches lit now and looks a lot better.

Damn it... I should've took a picture. It's not the first time they turn on the lights. They do it every so often. I guess to test them.. but I'd be shocked if they're on tomorrow. It's VERY rare. But the bridge looks great when they're on

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:

R1070 wrote:The I-30 bridge over the Trinity has its arches lit now and looks a lot better.

Damn it... I should've took a picture. It's not the first time they turn on the lights. They do it every so often. I guess to test them.. but I'd be shocked if they're on tomorrow. It's VERY rare. But the bridge looks great when they're on

Aren't they finally opening it to pedestrians now though? Perhaps that has been some of the holdup.

Yea…I assumed that’s what was the holdup.

The CPC agenda for this week includes the inevitable replat of land where I believe Alamo Manhattan Phase 2 (Victor Prosper apartments) will replace The Local Oak and Ten Bells Tavern. Expect some controversy if this is the case.



There's also an unexplained replat request for the property currently occupied by Tom Thumb on Hampton and Twelfth.

https://dallascityhall.com/government/m ... Docket.pdf

To be honest, I originally expected projects like Victor Prosper 2 and Bishop South to be delayed several years, but with home prices the way they are, it's no wonder.

Maybe a much needed upgrade for the Tom Thumb?

Also, I heard a rumor the funeral home on Davis is closed or closing? I haven't seen anything yet at the site or the city docket.

lakewoodhobo wrote:The CPC agenda for this week includes the inevitable replat of land where I believe Alamo Manhattan Phase 2 (Victor Prosper apartments) will replace The Local Oak and Ten Bells Tavern. Expect some controversy if this is the case.

There's also an unexplained replat request for the property currently occupied by Tom Thumb on Hampton and Twelfth.

https://dallascityhall.com/government/m ... Docket.pdf

Ten Bells and Local Oak will be missed of they go... Kinda sad seeing the old Houses turned businesses go...

Any Oak Cliff news lately? I haven't heard anything interesting in a while.

lakewoodhobo wrote:The CPC agenda for this week includes the inevitable replat of land where I believe Alamo Manhattan Phase 2 (Victor Prosper apartments) will replace The Local Oak and Ten Bells Tavern. Expect some controversy if this is the case.

Screen Shot 2021-06-01 at 4.53.38 PM.png

There's also an unexplained replat request for the property currently occupied by Tom Thumb on Hampton and Twelfth.

https://dallascityhall.com/government/m ... Docket.pdf

To be honest, I originally expected projects like Victor Prosper 2 and Bishop South to be delayed several years, but with home prices the way they are, it's no wonder.

Did all of this go forward?

ericthegardener wrote:Any Oak Cliff news lately? I haven't heard anything interesting in a while.

It does seem quiet in the Oak Cliff news front, but a lot of the projects that were announced to break ground recently are well underway, most notably the apartments by Kairoi Residential on the site of El Fenix and Polar Bear Ashburn's overlooking Lake Cliff.



Caddy-corner to that is the Zang Flats project which is very active even though hard to tell when you're driving by. It's being built in a much tighter space than I originally thought.



The rest of the projects I see u/c are small for-sale condos and town homes like Kessler West (Davis near Hampton Rd) and Crawford Park (north side of the future* Central Market, pictured) - all very important infill projects that add to the "rooftop" and median income numbers. Melba Street in Bishop Arts also continues to be a very active construction zone.

Yeah I had a friend who is not from Texas move to Bishop Arts recently so I have been driving over there weekly and the number of smaller projects like small apartment buildings 10-20 units and condo/townhomes is quite numerable. You could argue we seem like we are in a quiet phase but that's because we are in building mode. HEB Central Market is basically waiting on this type of infill to mature before they launch a store project if they ever do since the Uptown one is still not begun. Plus some of the bigger projects around the Bishop Arts that were completed in the last few years have been sold to companies who buy established apartment communities freeing up the developers to have cash for other projects. The "quiet" is more that the Dallas Morning News isn't reporting that much cause things are continuing to evolve but not leap forward too quickly than they already have. Some of the new restaurants are pretty damn delicious over there as well in the new section. Now that I have a close friend there I am in the Bishop Arts all the time and it does make me curious about finally crossing the river even if the rents are about the same as Oak Lawn.

Quiet progress is exactly how I would describe Oak Cliff as well as East Dallas. Anytime I head to either of those areas, it seems like there are small/mid-sized developments happening all over the place. It's really cool to witness!

Are there renderings of the Kairoi complex floating around anywhere? I've looked online but haven't found anything yet

https://dallascityhall.com/government/m ... EVISED.pdf (starting on pg 29).

This one is just north of I-30 so it may not count as Oak Cliff, but "Slate Beckley South" was on the last CPC agenda. It'll replace a massive junkyard on Beckley and Yorktown.



At it comes with a sibling, Slate Beckley North, on the north side of Yorktown.

Thanks for the updates all!

Anyone know what businesses might be going in the new building at Davis and Vernon, next to Oil & Cotton?

Yes I pass through North Oak Cliff often, either on my bike ride or driving, and these small projects have made a huge difference from Trinity Groves all the way south to Lake Cliff/Bishop Arts.

ericthegardener wrote:Thanks for the updates all!

Anyone know what businesses might be going in the new building at Davis and Vernon, next to Oil & Cotton?

https://shopcompanies.com/sites/default ... 1616514444

The flyer references Bolsa, but it was updated to reflect Methodist somewhat recently.

Here are a few retail updates:

1. Berkley's Market will open in the space that would've been Royal Blue
2. Chip's Old Fashioned Hamburgers is taking 1605 N Beckley
3. Besos is a bar opening where Ceviche used to be

Source: https://oakcliff.advocatemag.com/2021/0 ... ming-soon/

4. Neony and Flashback Retropub are still coming to the TyPo campus, from what I've heard

Talking to a tenant of one of these industrial areas and they mentioned the area highlighted had recently been bought to place apartments on.

MC_ScattCat wrote:Talking to a tenant of one of these industrial areas and they mentioned the area highlighted had recently been bought to place apartments on.

DCAD is showing most of that land was purchased earlier this year by Andor Properties out of Dallas / Park Cities. Here are some associated LLCs that I found on Corporation Wiki.

I think there might be a standalone Starbucks in the works at Fort Worth Ave and Jacqueline Dr, next to Aldi. The CPC docket for next week has a request for a specific use permit for an auto service center (like a Valvoline, I guess) on the site of an existing shopping center. The plans submitted show another building next to it described as a Coffee Shop, and it clearly has a drive-thru.

lakewoodhobo wrote:

MC_ScattCat wrote:Talking to a tenant of one of these industrial areas and they mentioned the area highlighted had recently been bought to place apartments on.

DCAD is showing most of that land was purchased earlier this year by Andor Properties out of Dallas / Park Cities. Here are some associated LLCs that I found on Corporation Wiki.

Screen Shot 2021-08-10 at 4.36.42 PM.jpg

Thanks for that. People on this forum have often speculated/postulated that Park Cities ppl and Trinity Conservatory people owned everything on the other side of the river thru a web of shell holding companies, and it made sense, but up until this, I hadn’t seen any hard evidence of it. Are there other concrete examples? Any news articles? Perhaps it would be good to map them out on a shared Google maps or something.

lakewoodhobo wrote:I think there might be a standalone Starbucks in the works at Fort Worth Ave and Jacqueline Dr, next to Aldi. The CPC docket for next week has a request for a specific use permit for an auto service center (like a Valvoline, I guess) on the site of an existing shopping center. The plans submitted show another building next to it described as a Coffee Shop, and it clearly has a drive-thru.

Screen Shot 2021-08-13 at 3.03.39 PM.jpgScreen Shot 2021-08-13 at 3.00.19 PM.jpg

Oh man, as soon as I saw all of the businesses moving out of that strip I immediately thought "I bet that is going to be another drive-thru Starbucks." I wish they could make these look a little better and more pedestrian friendly. Something closer to the street, with outdoor seating and garden areas facing the street, and the drive-thru mess hidden from view.

The Oak Lawn Ave. Starbucks was an absolute terror for traffic and pedestrian activity before I left that area, and moved to the area this new Starbucks is going into....

Unfortunately, Dallas again fumbles away any real progress of pedestrian friendly development. This area a couple years ago had real potential. Everything off Ft. worth and Hampton had potential to be great. But then they allow a suburban strip mall and 24 he fitness and I lost all hope. This will be another ...what if...
The sad part is up the street once you pass the china buffet ... Things start getting really better as you approach Sylvan. My hope was that progress would creep up to Hampton. But nah

Dallas approves these types of things regardless of the traffic issues they cause. Then they are so tough on the developers proposing urban style housing because of “traffic concerns”.

Dallas planning and permitting and code enforcement is so screwed up. It's a wonder anything gets built. Over and over they quibble over minor BS and let major mistakes of planning and parking regs slide by.

citygeek wrote:Dallas planning and permitting and code enforcement is so screwed up. It's a wonder anything gets built. Over and over they quibble over minor BS and let major mistakes of planning and parking regs slide by.

This sums it up perfectly, sigh.
Also, you should join the Discord server, the quote makes me want you in there.

Looks like Sprouts picked the site of the former Luby's (Crown Buffet) and Elrod's Cost Plus for its Oak Cliff store.

Sprouts Farmers Market planned on Fort Worth Avenue at Hampton
https://oakcliff.advocatemag.com/2021/0 ... rs-market/

I've always thought that the Cost Plus could be a better grocery store, but I didn't think anyone would want to combine it with the Crown Buffet site. Curious to see how this plays out and which street it's designed to face.

lakewoodhobo wrote:Looks like Sprouts picked the site of the former Luby's (Crown Buffet) and Elrod's Cost Plus for its Oak Cliff store.

Sprouts Farmers Market planned on Fort Worth Avenue at Hampton
https://oakcliff.advocatemag.com/2021/0 ... rs-market/

I've always thought that the Cost Plus could be a better grocery store, but I didn't think anyone would want to combine it with the Crown Buffet site. Curious to see how this plays out and which street it's designed to face.

This is great news! I will likely make this my go-to grocery until Central Market opens in Bishop Arts. Maybe this news will cause Central Market to pull the trigger on their store.

The only bummer is that this particular site could have been a fantastic mixed use development site. Not too many people know this, but the views from behind the Crown Buffet are incredible. There's an empty parcel that has a hilltop view of Downtown/Uptown, pretty much the entire core. It can be breathtaking at certain times of the day. Some mixed use midrises and a park would have been nice. But I will take the Sprouts!

My only issue with this location is trying to turn left going east or south out of this area can be dangerous. The Ft. Worth / Hampton intersection is always busy and the angle which Ft Worth comes across Hampton make left turns longer. Other than that I'm happy to hear this. I go to Cox Market a lot, but sometimes it is hard to find what I'm looking for there.

Matt777 wrote:Not too many people know this, but the views from behind the Crown Buffet are incredible. There's an empty parcel that has a hilltop view of Downtown/Uptown, pretty much the entire core. It can be breathtaking at certain times of the day. Some mixed use midrises and a park would have been nice. But I will take the Sprouts!

I agree and know exactly which view/parcel you're talking about. However, I've always thought that the real prize as far as mixed-use potential is the DPD auto pound just north of this.

Another bargain tool the city has at its disposal. For decades various county and city governments have had city services in South Dallas and going forward they can use these chunks of land as bait for encouraging more redevelopment in he southern sector if they plan ahead to move them when they need to be upgraded or replaced.

New York developer plans its first Dallas deal in North Oak Cliff - Dallas Morning News
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2022/05/25/new-york-developer-plans-first-dallas-deal-in-north-oak-cliff/

The vacant property at East Jefferson Boulevard and Colorado was one of the Dallas locations Amazon considered when it was looking for a second headquarters site.
. . .
Related is eyeing a more than 400-unit rental community to kick off construction on the high-profile site. Construction will start on the project next year.

Hmm, I hope it's not a Texas donut style 400 rental unit project. The article framing the convo with the developer suggests it will be a looker but I am concerned it's just the usual cheerleading and development bloat. While I am not expecting a 60-story tower here since they only have 20-story zoning in place I hope they at least do a tower and not just an above-ground garage with 400 units wrapped. Hopefully, something that helps make an impact on the Oak Cliff side. Then again this is the first phase of a larger project so we might get what we got with JPI at the Cityplace/Xerox/ACS site. They might need the low rise development to prove the market for the site before they can get funding for a highrise.

Wouldn't mind our own Oak Cliff version of Jersey City over here. A cluster of a few mini skyscrapers to compliment downtown.

IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:New York developer plans its first Dallas deal in North Oak Cliff - Dallas Morning News
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2022/05/25/new-york-developer-plans-first-dallas-deal-in-north-oak-cliff/

The vacant property at East Jefferson Boulevard and Colorado was one of the Dallas locations Amazon considered when it was looking for a second headquarters site.
. . .
Related is eyeing a more than 400-unit rental community to kick off construction on the high-profile site. Construction will start on the project next year.

Might be related
Oak Farms continues to take shape with latest multi family deal

Over the course of eight years, Cienda Partners closed 10 transactions to accumulate 34 acres for its Oak Farms development. Now, the Dallas-based family office is moving into the development phase of its vision as a new-to-town developer looks to bring fresh multifamily to the project

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... V9shtf3sFg

This is the same article announcing the Mill Creek building downtown, but I thought this part was interesting for the building u/c on Beckley.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... rock-lake/

Mill Creek is already developing another rental community in West Dallas that will be connected to a new riverside park. The Modera Trinity building on Beckley Avenue just east of Commerce will have just over 200 apartments.

“We lifted the building up to levee level — the swimming pool and most of the units look over the levee” toward downtown.

“On the Beckley side, we bought the apartments all the way down to the street,” he said.

WDG Architecture designed the project, which will be connected to the Trinity Overlook Park.

“We will deliver the first units next year,” Blackwell said.

Also know this is technically West Dallas and not Oak Cliff, but the potential (and my hope) here is for more and more buildings along the levee to have this "levee height" with access to the trail, on both sides of the river. It could even create a sort of boardwalk atmosphere in parts that are less residential, like the Design District.

Really cool possibilities here.