Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

RIP Elbow Room

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comme ... al-college

A real kick in the teeth as Texas A&M takes the Elbow Room to make room for a dental college

Robert Wilonsky, City Columnist

...At 48 I'm already a remember-when guy, which has to be boring to the what's-next crowd for which this city's a playground.

Texas A&M University is preparing to bulldoze the Elbow Room by May's end to make way for a new college of dentistry, replacing the one only a short walk away. And the university's board of trustees got what it wanted using eminent domain.

... $300,000... wouldn't be nearly enough to let them reopen elsewhere in the neighborhood, which is slowly but surely being decimated by Baylor Medical Center (which gobbled up the landmark Metro Diner six years ago) and, now, A&M.

And much of the land's been snapped up — by A&M, according to the county's appraisal district.

So, how much land has A&M snapped up? Hopefully to enough to start a medical school.

As much as I have investigated it is only a dental school expansion not a full blown Medical School project.

Would there be any possible vacant spot in Deep Ellum that the Elbow Room could go? Or are they just going to give up?

jrd1964 wrote:Would there be any possible vacant spot in Deep Ellum that the Elbow Room could go? Or are they just going to give up?

Per the Dallas observer the owners are keeping some of the items , the sign and another memorabilia in case they reopen. I hope they stay on Gaston. Somewhere near Lakewood would be great.

The renovated (and empty) center at Swiss and Hall, where Bonnie Parker used to work, is such an obvious location that I have to assume the landlord is asking too much.

Hannibal Lecter wrote:The renovated (and empty) center at Swiss and Hall, where Bonnie Parker used to work, is such an obvious location that I have to assume the landlord is asking too much.

I agree and I would assume the same. By now a subway, nail salon or jimmy johns would have moved into that center but the owner must be holding out for a hefty price with the hotel going in next door.

Look what I found...http://www.brwarch.com/project/tamhsc/

For the Texas A&M Health Science Center (TAMHSC), BRW and our associate Design Architect are working together to design and document the Center for Oral Healthcare Clinic for the Texas A&M University (TAMU) College of Dentistry. This new clinic will provide state-of-the-art dental care to underserved populations and train students from under-represented communities.

The Center for Oral Healthcare Clinic building will consist of nine stories with nine different types of clinical environments and 355 total operatories, ranging from general practice to prosthodontics and implant surgery. The 160,000 SF facility will include laboratories, classrooms, student spaces, clinical support areas, and a utility plant. The existing building will be renovated to include a 4,000 SF stimulation center, gross anatomy laboratory, and additional academic laboratory environments in the existing basement.

It looks like this is where Elbow Room was

Yes, this is what they have been talking about and why they needed Elbow rooms property. The building's front door will be where the Elbow Room was. Actually, it's more like where the new garage entrance will be.

Some of those surface lots in that area could use more apartments and condos for infill.

That's nice and everything, but I wont be satisfied until there's a medical school.

I would like to see a stronger street presence for the parking structure.

I actually kind of like the look of the building but that big green space in the front is not helping anybody out... It has almost no engagement with pedestrians.

I wish there was some retail with a less obvious garage structure. Something similar to what Baylor did on the new garage further down on Gaston would be good.

What a nice parking garage! Oh, and they even added some dental school space on top of the parking.

Blech.

It's a school. It needs a parking garage for its students. The building looks great and it will be wonderful for the area and its economy. I swear, some people on here don't want to see the silver lining of these projects.

joshua.dodd wrote:It's a school. It needs a parking garage for its students. The building looks great and it will be wonderful for the area and its economy. I swear, some people on here don't want to see the silver lining of these projects.

I think you're missing the point. No one is arguing that its not good for the economy or area. It's not even about the garage either. The criticism stems from the design. A few blocks down Baylor design a big garage that looks and interacts with the area in a superior way... This dental garage is uninspired ,effortless design.

Sigh...if you have to see the silver lining in architecture; chances are you're not getting something that is attractive. Just saying.

The architect was seeking to evoke the image of a toothless grin.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:

joshua.dodd wrote:It's a school. It needs a parking garage for its students. The building looks great and it will be wonderful for the area and its economy. I swear, some people on here don't want to see the silver lining of these projects.

I think you're missing the point. No one is arguing that its not good for the economy or area. It's not even about the garage either. The criticism stems from the design. A few blocks down Baylor design a big garage that looks and interacts with the area in a superior way... This dental garage is uninspired ,effortless design.

Sigh...if you have to see the silver lining in architecture; chances are you're not getting something that is attractive. Just saying.

Considering that its function is a school, the university is obviously not concerned with street level interaction.

joshua.dodd wrote:It's a school. It needs a parking garage for its students. The building looks great and it will be wonderful for the area and its economy. I swear, some people on here don't want to see the silver lining of these projects.

If we are always looking for the silver lining and in Dallas we always are when it comes to urban projects then you aren't doing it right. A silver lining is about finding the good in a terrible situation. I doubt anyone calls a dentist school expansion in Deep Ellum a terrible situation. Architecture is not by chance bad or badly implemented by accident. Architecture is the most purposeful career fields around. You actively decide to ignore things because the project is crafted from beginning to end to solve one issue or solve another. As a city we constantly ignore urban design so architects do as well when the client shows no leadership in wanting it as a part of a project's DNA. Priorities of budget, security, transit access etc shape an architect's final solution. Silver linings are about events with uncontrollable odds that you have to pick up what you have left and make the best of it. Good urban form in an urban environment is easy to fix if you want to cause at no point is bad urban form an accident it is purposeful negligence.

A look at the evolution of UTA and UTD campus environment is in order; an intensive infrastructure renovation is underway to deliver a pedestrian oriented sense of place to both former commuter colleges. The same evolution is required in East Dallas, and should be backed up with a municipal mandate.

BaylorScottWhite and associated research and rehabilitation facilities, Texas A&M, Exall Park, Moody Foundation, Criswell and DTS --- all of it, the whole big patch should undergo a street level renovation establishing an environment of united pedestrian and vehicular mobility. The new dentist factory does not appear to have any notion of connection with the world around it.

As a state agency, Texas A&M is exempt from any "municipal mandate".

^^ This.

Hannibal Lecter wrote:As a state agency, Texas A&M is exempt from any "municipal mandate".

The same applies to UNT and its buildings in the historic districts downtown (they don't have to abide by any city historic ordinances). This is why the City of Dallas still owns the Municipal Building and will only lease it to UNT for their law school.

What if Texas A&M provided the blueprint for such a renovation?

https://vimeo.com/24925483

Imagine the future of this East Dallas neighborhood.

What if these neighborhood institutions were pulled together by neighborhood infrastructure that is

Efficient
Resilient
Healthy
Sustainable
Just
Livable

Planners build cities, Texas A&M offers a Ph.D. in Urban & Regional Science. They ought to be able to build a dental professional factory that improves the neighborhood.

http://laup.arch.tamu.edu/academics/graduate/mup/

It's already improving the neighborhood.

I don't think the comments on here about state agencies not having to abide by historic district zoning is accurate. While a state agency may have an argument they should be allowed to make alterations, etc., I don't think they can just ignore municipal ordinances at their discretion.

If A&M needs a zoning change for their dental school expansion, they still have to obtain city permission.

DallasMan wrote:I don't think the comments on here about state agencies not having to abide by historic district zoning is accurate. While a state agency may have an argument they should be allowed to make alterations, etc., I don't think they can just ignore municipal ordinances at their discretion.

If A&M needs a zoning change for their dental school expansion, they still have to obtain city permission.

In California, at least, state agencies don't have to abide by municipal building ordinances. In practice, they tend to try to be good partners and not antagonize local governments, but it's ultimately at their discretion.

DallasMan wrote:If A&M needs a zoning change for their dental school expansion, they still have to obtain city permission.

Uh.... No.

Texas Local Government Code Sec. 211.013(c). "This subchapter does not apply to a building, other structure, or land under the control, administration, or jurisdiction of a state or federal agency."

Drove by Elbow Room this afternoon and they had the rear knocked down. I'm guessing the whole thing will be cleared by the end of the weekend

In practice, they tend to try to be good partners and not antagonize local governments, but it's ultimately at their discretion.

I'm not going to pretend I'm a lawyer, but I do know that state agencies submit changes to the planning and zoning board all the time, including for school districts and colleges, so if they don't have to do that and can build whatever they want, I'm not sure why they bother. I've also seen them be denied.

The only recent discussions I've seen about a college ignoring zoning regulations was for UTD in Richardson, and they asked for a change to explicitly allow retail (I think-it's been a while) but their original zoning was so broad their lawyers and dean thought they could ultimately build what they wanted with their original zoning, but asked for permission anyways. They certainly didn't state that they felt zoning law or city overlay plans didn't apply to them.

The_Overdog wrote:I'm not going to pretend I'm a lawyer, but I do know that state agencies submit changes to the planning and zoning board all the time, including for school districts and colleges, so if they don't have to do that and can build whatever they want, I'm not sure why they bother. I've also seen them be denied.

The only recent discussions I've seen about a college ignoring zoning regulations was for UTD in Richardson, and they asked for a change to explicitly allow retail (I think-it's been a while) but their original zoning was so broad their lawyers and dean thought they could ultimately build what they wanted with their original zoning, but asked for permission anyways. They certainly didn't state that they felt zoning law or city overlay plans didn't apply to them.

Well, first of all,

In practice, they tend to try to be good partners and not antagonize local governments

Second, look up results from the Dictator Game (people behave "irrationally" altruistically, even when given total authority because a) we're social animals that don't like everyone hating us and b) things like "soft power" that are gained from good will have value in getting your way more generally)

Third, it's not like cities have no power to make an agency feel pain if they feel they've been bullied. Imagine an agency building this huge new development that the city objected to, and then the city refusing to make any improvements to the surrounding roads.

(Also, things may be different between CA and TX.)

Lord knows what matters is what City Hall and the politicians that work there tell the organization off the record. UNT made significant changes to a historical building in Downtown Dallas against a group of people's wishes but the city was happy to have the redevelopment so I'm sure that stayed under the radar since the city wasn't blatantly against having a UNT campus take up residence in Downtown.

Crane was being installed today, One more in the urban core...

Somebody needs to have a crane company/factory around here somewhere

Breaking ground Monday

Texas A&M to begin $129M building in Deep Ellum to boost Dallas enrollment

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... ml?ana=lnk

11/27

Untitled by Around My City, on Flickr
Untitled by Around My City, on Flickr

It's stunning to see so much activity on the east side of 45.

Untitled by Around My City, on Flickr
Untitled by Around My City, on Flickr
Untitled by Around My City, on Flickr

There we go another brick in the wall.

We don't need no education.

Up goes the Texas A&M wall.

Castle tower is rising. Let's hope her defenses can keep the rough and tumble at bay.

I'm still hoping A&M can find the way to expand with a full-on medical school in East Dallas, preferably the whole body Osteopathic Medicine side of study to compliment the pin-point surgical study famous at UTSW. I only think A&M since the relationship to Baylor-Scott-White is already so strong, but maybe I guess UNT would be the Osteopathic expansion in East Dallas, but I've had them (in my mind) building the UNT-Dallas campus with a specialty focused at the Veterans Hospital one train station away.

Untitled by Around My City, on Flickr

Untitled by Around My City, on Flickr

Untitled by Around My City, on Flickr

Untitled by Around My City, on Flickr