Deep Ellum: Epic ~ Knights of Pythias Temple

[cowboyeagle05]

The way it was explained to me is that the only thing paused in Dallas is the finish out of the space inside the building already built. The new building being built for Uber is still going up as usual as seen on camera.

[utgf]

Too many pessimists on this string...

Will Uber ride off to Dallas with its headquarters?

As cost-cutting pressures mount, speculation intensifies that Uber could move its San Francisco headquarters to lower-cost Dallas.

https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisc ... rters.html

Two weeks after cutting 3,700 jobs, Uber slashes another 3,000, closes an SF office
https://www.sfgate.com/news/editorspicks/article/Uber-job-cuts-layoffs-offices-closed-15278127.php

The 6,700 jobs are equal to 25% of the San Francisco-based company's global work force. Uber is also shutting or consolidating 40 offices around the world; its Pier 70 office in San Francisco is set to close.

Uber Lays Off Another 3,000 Workers, Bringing This Round to 6,700

Uber is reportedly still moving ahead to consolidate workers into its swanky new offices in Mission Bay, adjacent to the Chase Center. But 500 workers who have been in offices on Pier 70 nearby will be moving in first as the company says it will close that office entirely

As of May 12, Uber had only indicated that 52 of its initially announced 3,700 job cuts were in the Bay Area

The pier 70 offices look amazing. But before the covid-19 lockdown, google was in talks to lease 1.5 million square feet of office space there, on top of the 1.9 million they currently lease in San Francisco alone.






And Pier 70's future currently under construction

[Tnexster]

^That's a nice plan, thanks for sharing. Always like to see what other cities have planned.

[deweast]

Anyone have any intel on what is being fabricated in the sub basement of this building. It appears to be perhaps a filtering process or some sort of special need that Uber has designated. ?

[BigD5349]

Installation of the new crown is complete...

DSCN3394b.jpg

[Tnexster]

On the Agenda: Tapping the ‘breaks’ on Uber

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... allas.html

Uber has now requested that the initial 2023 effective date be changed to 2025, that the initial job creation requirement of 2,500 new jobs be changed to 1,000, and that a job creation schedule now be used to determine the number of jobs that have to be created after 2025.

Since the total number of jobs that will be created and exist during the abatement’s 10-year period will have been reduced by about 20 percent, the county staff made a corresponding reduction in the business personal property abatement for those years that would now have a lower requirement than what was previously in place.

Uber would not receive the original 90 percent BPP abatement until the original 3,000 job level has been met.

[DPatel304]

That's pretty significant, but I suppose I'm not surprised. I really hope that this plan is now realistic for them even given the circumstances and they are able to stick to it. I'd really hate to see this fall through.

[Tnexster]

The Hamilton new high-rise apartments hits 25 percent occupancy in Deep Ellum

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... ellum.html

The Hamilton apartment high-rise in Deep Ellum, which opened just as the COVID-19 pandemic hit North Texas, is about 25 percent occupied, its developers say.

The 26-floor building by Westdale Real Estate Investment and Management and StreetLights Residential is in The Epic mixed-use development in Deep Ellum.

[Warrior2015]

The Hamilton new high-rise apartments hits 25 percent occupancy in Deep Ellum

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... ellum.html

The Hamilton apartment high-rise in Deep Ellum, which opened just as the COVID-19 pandemic hit North Texas, is about 25 percent occupied, its developers say.

The 26-floor building by Westdale Real Estate Investment and Management and StreetLights Residential is in The Epic mixed-use development in Deep Ellum.

Is this good?

[BigD5349]

A peek inside the Knights of Pythias through the front window...

IMG_8521.jpeg

[exelone31]

^ wow, that looks really nice. I am so happy that this building has been restored.

[mdg109]

That's awesome!

[cowboyeagle05]

My question is was there any original interiors left after they let the building literally rot for decades. They ignored the City of Dallas when City Hall tried to start enforcing code violations on historical structures rules that the city have been enforcing for years. Then all of a sudden when the Uber deal finally materialized they magically cared about preserving the building and getting funds based on its historical value to the community. I know they are the more recent owners in the entire history of the building but they failed to stabilize the building when they took possession more than 20 yrs ago. I don't have the actually date nailed down however. I just want to hear the VHL Behind the Music version of the buildings history including interior uses. I've read details on the buildings overall history but how did the interior change over time. Was any original left or did multiple owners truly scrape the building of original architecture to make it operational for other past uses.

[LBK2013]

My question is was there any original interiors left after they let the building literally rot for decades. They ignored the City of Dallas when City Hall tried to start enforcing code violations on historical structures rules that the city have been enforcing for years. Then all of a sudden when the Uber deal finally materialized they magically cared about preserving the building and getting funds based on its historical value to the community. I know they are the more recent owners in the entire history of the building but they failed to stabilize the building when they took possession more than 20 yrs ago. I don't have the actually date nailed down however. I just want to hear the VHL Behind the Music version of the buildings history including interior uses. I've read details on the buildings overall history but how did the interior change over time. Was any original left or did multiple owners truly scrape the building of original architecture to make it operational for other past uses.

https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/kni ... le-6375072

This article is a decent read. The first half is about Pittman and the second a brief history of the building. I don't know that much original interior would have been left once Union Banker converted it to office space. That wasn't really the MO of companies back then and especially not one of a company who fought so hard against it being marked as historical.

At any rate it sounds like the insides were in pretty bad shape. I would image in was completely gutted for the current project.

[BigD5349]

I took a tour of the building more than 10 years ago, for a project that didn't get off the ground. The building was completely gutted back to the studs, no walls, rooms, etc - just big open floor plates. The only recognizable remnant of the original interior was the staircase between floors, which was in bad shape.

the original grand ballroom, which was two floors tall, had a floor plate inserted to create an additional floor of office space. My understanding is that the ballroom has been restored to two levels, which will be dramatic and great, but I'm sure with a modern vibe nothing at all like the original.

[cowboyeagle05]

Thanks to both for your contributions^ Some historical buildings all we get are the shells of the former self sadly.

[Tnexster]

Looks like construction has reached ground level already.

[deweast]

What is the reason for all the below level apparatus in this building? They have been installing several layers of what appear to be “flow through” devices covered by concrete. Anyone know?

[Warrior2015]

A peek inside the Knights of Pythias through the front window...

IMG_8521.jpeg

This is truly beautiful. I'm really digging the new construction of these projects in dallas. Very nice on the inside.

[OrangeMike]

CultureMap has a new preview article about the restaurant:
https://dallas.culturemap.com/news/rest ... aham-dodds

The hotel site is live, if like me you had not seen it already:
https://www.pittmanhoteldallas.com/

I also found a great “before” photo on a City of Dallas historic preservation page.
https://dallascityhall.com/departments/ ... emple.aspx

[itsjrd1964]

I hope the hotel can get past the initial sight-seer/interested-gawker stage. It may take the owners/developers a *while* to make their money back. The website photos of the interiors really look nice. I wouldn't mind a couple of those green guest room chairs.

[Tnexster]

Epic II already above grade.

[Hannibal Lecter]

Gee. What a surprise.

Uber is looking for tenants to fill its offices in Dallas’ Deep Ellum

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... eep-ellum/

[Cbdallas]

I am afraid this is a sign of things to come with office space for a while. I still am working from home at least until the new year and maybe after.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

I am afraid this is a sign of things to come with office space for a while. I still am working from home at least until the new year and maybe after.

Same. I think commercial office space will take a hit for the foreseeable future

[exelone31]

I am afraid this is a sign of things to come with office space for a while. I still am working from home at least until the new year and maybe after.

Same. I think commercial office space will take a hit for the foreseeable future

Same also. Going to be very interesting. I also wonder what this means for co-working spots like WeWork, Common Desk, etc. I could honestly find reasons to convince myself that the post-COVID world is both good and bad for them.

[mdg109]

You're right. My job is actually going office-less until next year and I'm already looking into WeWork or something just to get out of the house.

[cowboyeagle05]

Yeah all the accountants I know are working from home for the rest of the year while those friends of mine that work for private companies that have government contracts are back in office full time. It seems mixed for sure. I would imagine new hiring is still paused for many companies as well. Real Estate homes and apartments seems to be the the industry with the biggest gains and losses. So many people have moved out of apartments and are not renewing because they are all running to buy homes that Real Estate agents that I all know are super busy.

[itsjrd1964]

Uber puts up most of its office space in Deep Ellum building for rent

https://dallas.culturemap.com/news/real ... llum-epic/

[Ace]

Reading the many threads in this section of the forum, I am amazed. The focus shouldn't be on the pandemic, but on the advent of the war waged on the police which got its start in downtown Dallas beginning with the assassination of five police officers. Why relocate a company from Minneapolis or Chicago to central Dallas when it might be even worse? Invariably, in every discussion about the aparent destruction happening today at the urban cores, the conversation leads back to Downtown Dallas. Meanwhile, Plano should be a big winner when the nonsense stops. Las Colinas after that.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

Why relocate a company from Minneapolis or Chicago to central Dallas when it might be even worse?

Uh....Pretty sure Minneapolis and Chicago police have it more rough than Dallas Police.

Not every company wants a suburban location simple as that. And going forward I think lots of companies realize WFH is the norm for the foreseeable future. Wouldn't be surprised if companies realize they don't need to build a sprawling campus in the burbs. REI realized this and sold their newly built campus.

[eburress]

I agree with Ace that Dallas needs to support its police. It doesn't appear to be happening though, with the city council already having cut the (already underfunded and understaffed) police department's overtime. My hope was that Dallas would buck the trend of other cities and invest in public safety, but it's clear the politics which are undermining other cities are undermining Dallas as well.

[exelone31]

Oof, while I appreciate open discussion of issues, I think we should save any talk of a war on police for another thread in this forum. Ironic that that subject would be broached on the Knights of Pythias thread, a building which was once a cornerstone of the African American community in Dallas.

To the topic at hand, I will be curious to see how Uber's decision impacts their longer-term plans here. I feel like there was quite a bit of skepticism about the whole endeavor pre-COVID, so I can't imagine this helps.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

I agree with Ace that Dallas needs to support its police. It doesn't appear to be happening though, with the city council already having cut the (already underfunded and understaffed) police department's overtime. My hope was that Dallas would buck the trend of other cities and invest in public safety, but it's clear the politics which are undermining other cities are undermining Dallas as well.

The city cut 7 million out of 24 million overtime budget to help other social programs. Let's not make this anti-police story. Funding has to come from somewhere and quite frankly police funding takes up a large portion of funds. Simple as that.

[Ace]

Why relocate a company from Minneapolis or Chicago to central Dallas when it might be even worse?

Uh....Pretty sure Minneapolis and Chicago police have it more rough than Dallas Police.

Not every company wants a suburban location simple as that. And going forward I think lots of companies realize WFH is the norm for the foreseeable future. Wouldn't be surprised if companies realize they don't need to build a sprawling campus in the burbs. REI realized this and sold their newly built campus.

I think companies have adjusted to the pandemic by and large.
This defunding the police agenda is something new and a problem longer term. Figure, as is always the case during downturns, that construction in the future in central Dallas is going to shrink towards the bubble made up of the Park Cities, Knox Street, Turtle Creek, and Uptown. This would leave downtown, Deep Ellum, the Design District and the rest outside that bubble in the cold.

[Tucy]

Not every company wants a suburban location simple as that. And going forward I think lots of companies realize WFH is the norm for the foreseeable future. Wouldn't be surprised if companies realize they don't need to build a sprawling campus in the burbs. REI realized this and sold their newly built campus.

Interesting about REI but it doesn't make much of a case for center city offices. A few points:

1) The primary reason they sold their brand new, unused suburban headquarters campus is ... they need the money. It had nothing to do with a sudden desire to not be in the suburbs.
2) While REI sold it, Facebook bought it.
3) Instead of the new suburban headquarters campus, REI plans to continue emphasizing WFH and have several satellite campuses, mostly (maybe entirely) in suburban areas: "The company said when it eventually returns to offices, it expects to operate in several sites, including an existing one in Seattle, as well as new satellite campuses in the eastern suburbs and in South Puget Sound, for which REI is scouting."

[Ace]

Oof, while I appreciate open discussion of issues, I think we should save any talk of a war on police for another thread in this forum. Ironic that that subject would be broached on the Knights of Pythias thread, a building which was once a cornerstone of the African American community in Dallas.

To the topic at hand, I will be curious to see how Uber's decision impacts their longer-term plans here. I feel like there was quite a bit of skepticism about the whole endeavor pre-COVID, so I can't imagine this helps.

Sorry, I love Deep Ellum. I'm just questioning the focus. People aren't being honest about the damage done. The people are now in the process of rearranging their priorities. Dying by a virus is now being placed third on the list of concerns. Tyranny should be our main concern which has taken the power away from the creativity of many on the local level to just a few geniuses located in the District of Columbia. The second concern is essential versus non essential businesses which has caused a disruption in the food supply causing global starvation and people to suffer hunger in the United States.

[flyswatter]

Don't feed the troll.

[cowboyeagle05]

Also the 7 million was put into programs inside the police department like funding desk cops to get back on the street and fill the desk jobs with trained employees rather than cops. It also funded increased support in psych areas like for helping cops deal with internal issues and programs that provide support for social crimes. The council actually back tracked on their original proposal to take the funding from the police. The mayor got his way but in a way that made less of a splash.

Uber so far has said they are still going forward with the new building that they anticipate regrowth will take till 2022 when that building opens. They are only at the moment renting out the space they have yet to occupy yet and the city has given them a extension on incentives due to the world pandemic.

[Ace]

Don't feed the troll.

Sorry, I will repost this point of view in the urban issue category.

[mdg109]

Thanks for the clarification @cowboyeagle05

[cowboyeagle05]

^Mind you Uber could go bankrupt and skip town by then but for now they are basically suggesting that they intend to stay in the main building they are building custom for them and if they need the space in the original Epic tower they can at a later date re occupy the space once a sub tenant leaves.

[rono3849]

epic.complete.jpg

D Magazine has an article the implies Uber is refocusing their company on a different set of revenue sources & will scale back their operations impacting their plans to expand here in Dallas. How this impacts the Epic development is a subject of their speculation. Personally, the location of these buildings provides a great presence in Dallas & I think it will eventually be a great location for a number of businesses. JMO.

[quixomniac]

epic.complete.jpg

D Magazine has an article the implies Uber is refocusing their company on a different set of revenue sources & will scale back their operations impacting their plans to expand here in Dallas. How this impacts the Epic development is a subject of their speculation. Personally, the location of these buildings provides a great presence in Dallas & I think it will eventually be a great location for a number of businesses. JMO.

Here it is:
No air taxis, no autonomous cars, there’s really not much left of the proposed expansion.
At least we got some nice buildings with LEDs!
https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... terialize/

[eburress]

With Uber falling through I'm becoming jealous of Austin's ability to attract Bay Area tech refugees. Even Houston landed HP. Houston.

[R1070]

With Uber falling through I'm becoming jealous of Austin's ability to attract Bay Area tech refugees. Even Houston landed HP. Houston.

I think HP went to Houston due to a historical presence there. And Austin’s infrastructure and talent pool is only so big. DFW is still an attractive market to companies.

[Tnexster]

With Uber falling through I'm becoming jealous of Austin's ability to attract Bay Area tech refugees. Even Houston landed HP. Houston.

There will be many more opportunities. In an interview I saw recently Robert Kaplan with the Dallas Fed said pre-covid he was accustomed to receiving calls from CEO's about every 4-6 weeks looking for information about DFW and the possibility of relocating here. Now he gets them every day.

[quixomniac]

With Uber falling through I'm becoming jealous of Austin's ability to attract Bay Area tech refugees. Even Houston landed HP. Houston.

There will be many more opportunities. In an interview I saw recently Robert Kaplan with the Dallas Fed said pre-covid he was accustomed to receiving calls from CEO's about every 4-6 weeks looking for information about DFW and the possibility of relocating here. Now he gets them every day.

Compaq had its HQ in Houston before it was bought by HP.
So it is only natural that they gravitated towards somewhere they already a presence.

I suppose there are going to be more opportunities, but there are only so many big fish to catch. Specifically in Tech, Tesla is one of the big ones that might move, but its a given that they will move to Austin based on their Gigafactory location there. And since like attracts like, it seems like a given it will keep attracting tech. Like a giant Tech magnet.

Perhaps we might have a chance in finance due to the Dallas Fed location?
Hopefully something fills up the Epic. It would be sad to have all this new development be empty. It needs a big office move to keep these local businesses floating during the day.

[LongonBigD]

Is it too late to ditch the ginormous helopad on top of the tower?

[eburress]

Is it too late to ditch the ginormous helopad on top of the tower?

It'd be a nice looking tower sans the helipad!