Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Posted: **22 Feb 2017 15:23**

Vistra (fka Energy Future/Luminant/TXU) is moving to Irving. Anybody know how many employees and leased SF is departing for Irving?

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/real ... ers-irving

Not good for DTD.

Posted: **22 Feb 2017 16:07**

ArtVandelay wrote:Vistra (fka Energy Future/Luminant/TXU) is moving to Irving. Anybody know how many employees and leased SF is departing for Irving?

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/real ... ers-irving

Not good for DTD.

I'm guessing approximately 350 employees.

Posted: **22 Feb 2017 16:35**

It's one of the most sustainable buildings in the area: http://www.energyplazadallas.com/sustainability/

350 of 3,000 people in the building will be leaving; hopefully they will be able to fill it quickly.

Posted: **22 Feb 2017 16:58**

Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing if this building lost a few floors of office space. It's due for an update, perhaps even a mixed-use conversion.

Posted: **22 Feb 2017 18:01**

lakewoodhobo wrote:Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing if this building lost a few floors of office space. It's due for an update, perhaps even a mixed-use conversion.

Convert the plaza into a motor court and add a parking garage? That's the "update" trend lately.

The ground level (especially facing Bullington) could use some updating. I believe there were plans originally to include an art gallery at street level.

pl_002222017_1851_41852_101.jpg

Posted: **23 Feb 2017 10:14**

^ The article above mentions the "the 50-story Placid Oil co building now being built". Would that be Thanksgiving Tower?

Posted: **23 Feb 2017 14:58**

Tucy wrote:
ArtVandelay wrote:Vistra (fka Energy Future/Luminant/TXU) is moving to Irving. Anybody know how many employees and leased SF is departing for Irving?

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/real ... ers-irving

Not good for DTD.

I'm guessing approximately 350 employees.

Poor reading comprehension on my part

I thought there were way more people working for Energy Future/Vistra in that building. Maybe they've whittled down to than number over the last couple of bankruptcy years.

I believe TU bought it from ARCO around '93/'94 and occupied the entire building in the beginning. It must have become multi-tenant at some point (to me it has the feel of a one-tenant building). It was notable for having very little parking as ARCO intended for its employees to use public transit and carpool.

Posted: **23 Feb 2017 16:02**

According to this article (http://www.costar.com/News/Article/FDIC ... aza/105002), in 2008 TXU had 240,000 sq ft and FDIC had 309,000 sq ft. Space has been subleased from TXU to other tenants as well. I wonder what the current mix is.

Posted: **23 Feb 2017 20:16**

texasstar wrote:^ The article above mentions the "the 50-story Placid Oil co building now being built". Would that be Thanksgiving Tower?

According to this
http://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/24/us/hu ... d-oil.html

I'm guessing it was. Even though Thanksgiving topped out at 60, not 50. If so, they weren't in there long after it was built--Placid went bankrupto in the wake of the 1980s oil mess.

Posted: **24 Feb 2017 02:22**

ArtVandelay wrote:
Tucy wrote:
ArtVandelay wrote:Vistra (fka Energy Future/Luminant/TXU) is moving to Irving. Anybody know how many employees and leased SF is departing for Irving?

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/real ... ers-irving

Not good for DTD.

I'm guessing approximately 350 employees.

Poor reading comprehension on my part

I thought there were way more people working for Energy Future/Vistra in that building. Maybe they've whittled down to than number over the last couple of bankruptcy years.

I believe TU bought it from ARCO around '93/'94 and occupied the entire building in the beginning. It must have become multi-tenant at some point (to me it has the feel of a one-tenant building). It was notable for having very little parking as ARCO intended for its employees to use public transit and carpool.

In maps/articles from the 1980s the parking garage at Akard/Patterson (here: https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7836459 ... 56!6m1!1e1) was labeled as the ARCO garage and there plans to connect it with a pedestrian tunnel. Is this garage still part of the same ownership?

Posted: **24 Feb 2017 06:07**

jrd1964 wrote:
texasstar wrote:^ The article above mentions the "the 50-story Placid Oil co building now being built". Would that be Thanksgiving Tower?

According to this
http://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/24/us/hu ... d-oil.html

I'm guessing it was. Even though Thanksgiving topped out at 60, not 50. If so, they weren't in there long after it was built--Placid went bankrupto in the wake of the 1980s oil mess.

How have they kept those additional 10 stories secret all these years?

Posted: **24 Feb 2017 11:32**

I worked in this building on the 40th floor back in early 2000's at TXU before they all fell apart. The building was really a cool place to work very big money 1980's monolithic finish out. It could probably be reworked into a really nice mixed use project.

Posted: **24 Feb 2017 15:19**

If only 350 employees are leaving, what is the remaining occupancy of the building? The FDIC still offices there, I'm pretty sure, so that's a good chunk of space.

I think fantasizing about turning the building into a mixed use redevelopment is a bit premature, unless the occupancy is otherwise abysmal.

Posted: **24 Feb 2017 17:10**

The FDIC was there before the 2008 collapse because I use to manage the cafe in the Mosaic bldg next door. The FDIC staff would come in for multiple cups of coffee at least 5 days a week and many times for a mid day wine or beer. When the economy collapses you tend to want to drink. I remember back then is when they reworked the ground floor to lease it out to whoever is there now. Still would rather see a restaurant on the ground floor and there is plenty of room for a patio on their lifeless plaza.

Posted: **16 Dec 2021 20:58**

Report: Todd Interests transforming downtown high-rise into office space and apartment units

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... 2#cxrecs_s

Dallas developer Todd Interests is transforming a 49-story skyscraper into a mixed-use property, Dallas Morning News reported.

Todd Interests will be changing Energy Plaza tower into office spaces and apartments. According to documents filed with the state, the project is expected to cost more than $130 million and start early next year.

The skyscraper is located on Bryan Street and was originally built as office space for Arco Oil & Gas Co. The tower has more than one million square feet and was designed by architect I.M. Pei and Partners.

According to state filing, Dallas-based architect HKS will be in charge of the renovations.

DMN Link

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... d-offices/

Posted: **17 Dec 2021 04:47**

This will be a nice residential location with access to Thanksgiving Square and Pacific Plaza. The plaza would make for a nice outdoor restaurant or beer garden.

Are the surrounding projects considered successful— Republic, One Dallas, Mosaic and the Post Office?

Posted: **17 Dec 2021 08:34**

Well since they are not turning the entire building into residential and keeping some of it for office space I imagine the pool will end up on the plaza at ground floor like what they did over at the other IM Pei tower aka One Dallas Center. They will be dividing the lobby as well I am sure to provide residential access separate from office access.

Posted: **17 Dec 2021 08:49**

Mosaic is still the biggest issue building with residents always complaining about something on the Downtown Residents Council like elevators that don't work or other residential property issues. The Mosaic and The Mercantile seem to be the residents who complain the most on the Downtown Residents Council best I can tell. I don't know if that actually indicates anything or is just the reality of a residential property Downtown. I dont doubt most of the complaints are reasonable. This does mean most of the buildings around Thanksgiving Square are residential except for Thanksgiving Tower(Santander Tower) and 211 Akard.

Posted: **17 Dec 2021 09:58**

This is so cool I used to have an office on the 48th floor and the views were amazing. The very top part of that building will have some interesting floor plans as it lays out in triangle. I think we need to keep doing this in downtown and turn it into an urban residential zone as the go to for those that want to live in an urban experience in the metroplex.

Posted: **24 Jun 2022 06:09**

Downtown Dallas skyscraper will get makeover for apartments and offices

The upper floors of the tower will house 294 residential units. And the lower portion of the building will be remodeled into first-class office space.

“The entire project will be completed within 20 months — we started today,” Todd said. “We’ll move our first office tenant in within 12 months.

“We’ll move our first residential tenant in the building 14 months from now.”

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... d-offices/

Posted: **24 Jun 2022 08:48**

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Mosaic is still the biggest issue building with residents always complaining about something on the Downtown Residents Council like elevators that don't work or other residential property issues. The Mosaic and The Mercantile seem to be the residents who complain the most on the Downtown Residents Council best I can tell. I don't know if that actually indicates anything or is just the reality of a residential property Downtown. I dont doubt most of the complaints are reasonable. This does mean most of the buildings around Thanksgiving Square are residential except for Thanksgiving Tower(Santander Tower) and 211 Akard.

The Merc truly is a shit show. I lived there from 2013 to 2016. Started out great but then around 2015 things started going down hill. My room mate at the time still lives there and it has only gotten worse with the new prop management company. Pipes constantly break. The elevators are constantly going down. They have let people host AirBnBs etc. The Merc is also in desperate need of a face lift in its units. They are starting to show their age.

Posted: **24 Jun 2022 09:33**

The DMN rendering looks to show the pedestrian plaza along Ervay turned into a vehicular driveway. sigh...

Posted: **24 Jun 2022 09:54**

R1070 wrote:The DMN rendering looks to show the pedestrian plaza along Ervay turned into a vehicular driveway. sigh...

Going for the suburban office park look...

Posted: **24 Jun 2022 13:19**

The good thing is that most of the plaza will be converted into a garden with a restaurant on the first floor.

Posted: **24 Jun 2022 13:23**

Renders from the article:

Posted: **24 Jun 2022 14:12**

Today's article reads as though Todd Interests just purchased the property, but the December 16 article lists them as owners.

December: "Dallas developer Todd Interests is transforming a 49-story skyscraper into a mixed-use property, Dallas Morning News reported."

Today: "New owner Todd Interests and partners will revamp the mostly vacant tower, the developer’s third such project downtown.:

Did they buy, resell and re-buy? Or am I missing something?

Posted: **24 Jun 2022 14:18**

Dallas_Uptown wrote:Today's article reads as though Todd Interests just purchased the property, but the December 16 article lists them as owners.

December: "Dallas developer Todd Interests is transforming a 49-story skyscraper into a mixed-use property, Dallas Morning News reported."

Today: "New owner Todd Interests and partners will revamp the mostly vacant tower, the developer’s third such project downtown.:

Did they buy, resell and re-buy? Or am I missing something?

That's just Steve trying to make his 6-month rerun look like news.

Posted: **24 Jun 2022 14:22**

Tucy wrote:
Dallas_Uptown wrote:Today's article reads as though Todd Interests just purchased the property, but the December 16 article lists them as owners.

December: "Dallas developer Todd Interests is transforming a 49-story skyscraper into a mixed-use property, Dallas Morning News reported."

Today: "New owner Todd Interests and partners will revamp the mostly vacant tower, the developer’s third such project downtown.:

Did they buy, resell and re-buy? Or am I missing something?

That's just Steve trying to make his 6-month rerun look like news.

Yep. :/

Posted: **24 Jun 2022 15:08**

Dallas_Uptown wrote:
Tucy wrote:
Dallas_Uptown wrote:Today's article reads as though Todd Interests just purchased the property, but the December 16 article lists them as owners.

December: "Dallas developer Todd Interests is transforming a 49-story skyscraper into a mixed-use property, Dallas Morning News reported."

Today: "New owner Todd Interests and partners will revamp the mostly vacant tower, the developer’s third such project downtown.:

Did they buy, resell and re-buy? Or am I missing something?

That's just Steve trying to make his 6-month rerun look like news.

Yep. :/

Call me an optimist, an illiterate dipshit, or maybe even Steve Brown’s staunchest ally, but this seems to be the key takeaway:

“The entire project will be completed within 20 months — we started today,” Todd said. “We’ll move our first office tenant in within 12 months.

“We’ll move our first residential tenant in the building 14 months from now.”

Am I missing something here?

Posted: **26 Jun 2022 10:31**

That suggests the residential and office are on different timelines (normal) and that they'll start moving occupants into both spaces before each area is 100% complete (also normal). Is that the distinction you're missing?

Posted: **26 Jun 2022 12:15**

Nothing wrong with writing "New owner Todd Interests..." when the vast majority of readers don't care when it was purchased. The point is that work has started and that is what's news as LPG points out.

Also interesting, to me anyway, is how they're putting up a wall along the DART tracks much like they did with One Dallas Center.

energy plaza.jpg

Posted: **28 Jun 2022 10:08**

I love mass transit as much as any nerd but let's face it, DART is abysmal and its LRT stations are magnets for homeless and unsocial behavior. I'm shocked that Todd didn't build a wall at the Akard station and completely shutoff access to The National.

Posted: **28 Jun 2022 10:36**

lakewoodhobo wrote:Nothing wrong with writing "New owner Todd Interests..." when the vast majority of readers don't care when it was purchased. The point is that work has started and that is what's news as LPG points out.

Also interesting, to me anyway, is how they're putting up a wall along the DART tracks much like they did with One Dallas Center.

energy plaza.jpg

I noticed that wall too. Didn't seem like a very urban-friendly design...

Posted: **28 Jun 2022 11:30**

Well to be honest they appear to have a wall facing the street as well. Encasing the garden in two walls to make the space more private and walling off access to Thanksgiving Square too. Probably will help keep residents from the Mosaic from bringing their dogs over to poop and piss in the new "garden". Notice here they are calling it a garden, not a public park or community park, etc like Hunt Realty keeps touting for their project. Here a garden seems to suggest a more private space.

Posted: **08 Jul 2022 09:46**

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... partments/

Steve mentions in the article:

-Energy Plaza partial conversion to apartments (Todd) [upper half apartments]
-Bryan Tower partial conversion to apartments (Woods) [upper floors will be apartments]
-Santander Tower partial conversion to apartments (Woods) [new rental units]
-Renaissance Tower partial conversion to apartments (GrayStreet) [more than half will be renovated for rental units]

It’s better than the buildings being vacant, but I think the “Main Street Commercial District” is in its twilight years.

Posted: **08 Jul 2022 12:07**

Neighborhoods don’t last long when they’re exclusively high-stakes plays (which became a large reason our 1950s to 1980s trophy shelf commercial district was increasingly brittle to national economic downturns in the first place).
I think the commercial district always needed more mixed-use activity, and turning 9-5 office slabs into mixed-use blocks is not any worse than building brand new ones, with the sole exception that it “signals less investor confidence” than new ones do, but so what? Neighborhoods don’t last long when they’re exclusively high-stakes.* Incremental development is a real city’s friend.

* You listening and taking notes, Uptown?

Posted: **08 Jul 2022 12:08**

That looks very positive to me! I guess I've never been so 'rigid' on what I think Downtown should really be and am just happy to see (almost) any type of growth. Obviously, I don't want to see it go back to being a commuter city that shuts down after 5pm, but other than that I am happy to see development and growth in whatever direction the market wants to take us.

I think converting old office space to apartments make sense. It seems like there is more demand for shiny, new commercial buildings, so perhaps we may still see some new buildings built in the urban core in the near future that would be more desirable to companies.

Posted: **08 Jul 2022 13:08**

potatocoins wrote:
I think converting old office space to apartments make sense. It seems like there is more demand for shiny, new commercial buildings, so perhaps we may still see some new buildings built in the urban core in the near future that would be more desirable to companies.

I agree. There will still be plenty of occupied office space and office workers downtown; just fewer half empty buildings and a lot more people downtown after 5pm.

Posted: **08 Jul 2022 13:09**

I personally love it. For a successful pure-play commercial to residential neighborhood transition, look at Financial District in Manhattan. 10 years ago it was so vacant on a weekend that it felt like a movie set. Now it's bustling on weekends with activity, families with strollers, restaurants, etc. Can be done and done well / quickly. Think it's key to sustainably / economically reinvigorating our downtown.

Posted: **08 Jul 2022 13:33**

I agree with mixed use being superior. It's debatable that nothing but tall office buildings even support that much total employment- HEB in Frisco (for example) is hiring 700 people for one grocery store. Shop-keepers, mixed use and coffee shops could lead to more employment around downtown than fully staffed office buildings with no residential component.

And the best thing is that if all is filled and someone wants office, then a parking lot has to die.

Posted: **08 Jul 2022 14:15**

The_Overdog wrote:And the best thing is that if all is filled and someone wants office, then a parking lot has to die.

Right.

No sense in keeping these old buildings vacant with the hope that they may one day be filled with office tenants. These buildings are getting older by the day, so let's convert them to apartments (which there seems to be ample demand for), get more people living in the CBD which means more retail which all leads to more activity downtown and makes it more attractive for newer residential/office development on existing parking lots.

Posted: **08 Jul 2022 18:32**

ArtVandelay wrote:https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2022/07/08/downtown-dallas-tower-redos-will-replace-acres-of-empty-offices-with-apartments/

If all complete, another 2,500 units. That's great.

I keep looking at Sheraton Dallas, specifically the ballroom facility across from the park. Nice re

Posted: **08 Jul 2022 19:06**

Uptown succeeded as a residential district before it succeeded as an office district. Maybe more people living downtown will make new office construction attractive again.

Posted: **08 Jul 2022 19:56**

I'm curious when you consider those times of success happened. Photos I've seen of the Rolex Building and the Crescent under construction make it look like nothing too far south of Turtle Creek or southwest of State-Thomas was going places residentially (or in any other way than office buildings) until relatively late in the redevelopment arc of the Uptown area, but that's just my past impression...

Posted: **08 Jul 2022 21:31**

They've started construction on this (really more demolition at this stage).

Posted: **09 Jul 2022 09:49**

tamtagon wrote:
ArtVandelay wrote:https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2022/07/08/downtown-dallas-tower-redos-will-replace-acres-of-empty-offices-with-apartments/

If all complete, another 2,500 units. That's great.

I keep looking at Sheraton Dallas, specifically the ballroom facility across from the park. Nice re

I saw that 2500 number…. Are there more than 4 projects? The four listed surely don’t average 600+ units, do they?

Posted: **09 Jul 2022 11:28**

That sure is an impressive number if just the 4. I can't help thinking that Renaissance Tower could have quite an impressive number just in it's halfish-building conversion alone. I'd like to see that number later. I'm going to guess no balconies will be punched-in on this one.

Posted: **09 Jul 2022 12:43**

Here's some more info. The four projects discussed are:

-Energy Plaza partial conversion to apartments (Todd) [upper half apartments]
-Bryan Tower partial conversion to apartments (Woods) [upper floors will be apartments]
-Santander Tower partial conversion to apartments (Woods) [new rental units]
-Renaissance Tower partial conversion to apartments (GrayStreet) [more than half will be renovated for rental units]

Two of them are proposed to be done by Woods Capital. Combined, those two (Santander and Bryan) are to have 550 apartments (per the DMN)

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... -for-redo/

So, unless there are more projects, the other two would have to have almost 975 units each.

Posted: **09 Jul 2022 13:11**

Perhaps 2500 is the estimated residents and misquoted as units.

Posted: **09 Jul 2022 14:41**

mhainli wrote:Perhaps 2500 is the estimated residents and misquoted as units.

I'm afraid even that would be a pretty big exaggeration, unless there are more projects beyond these 4. Average apartment occupancy runs at about 1.4 per occupied unit. So even if we assume 100% occupancy (which never happens), that would require almost 1,800 units. 2 of the 4 units combined have 550 units. So the remaining two would have to provide 625 units each. With a more-likely 93% occupancy rate, 2500 residents would take 1920 units, requiring the remaining two projects to give us 685 units each.

It seems more likely we will get somewhere around 1100 residential units out of these four projects, maybe as many as 1,300, which would probably lead to about 1,700 additional residents, assuming continued good demand. It's hard to get a good read on how downtown apartment occupancy is doing.

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