Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

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Jbarn
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby Jbarn » 27 Jul 2022 16:17

willyk wrote:
cowboyeagle05 wrote:It's trending away from the Central Business District to the Central Busy District. Aka not as much office central and slowly but surely more mix to include people living out the non-work life, sleeping and daily life needs.


So how is the core doing for low-key neighborhood retail businesses like we see in more mature high rise neighborhoods— dry cleaners, bodegas, take out meals, drug stores, flowers, tailors, day spas, UPS/FedEx, etc.? Can downtown residents get what they need without having to grab the car keys? Any hope for more of these businesses? Rejuvenate the old retail space in the tunnel system to service the new residential?



I would guess that the core fails miserably when it comes to providing basic needs to be considered a true neighborhood. Say for instance you are a tourist or convention attendee, you forget to pack underwear and socks. Other than paying outrageous prices at Neimans or 4510, where would you go for these basic necessities? Nowhere downtown, that’s where. You would have to take an expensive Uber ride to cityplace, northpark, etc...., just to purchase something that you should be able to walk a block to find. Want to buy some flowers, a book, some groceries? Sorry, but not downtown. It’s actually quite sad, and embarrassing, for a city the size of Dallas to have such a lacking center. It’s better than before, but still has so very long to go to be considered a real, vibrant, dynamic, stable center.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 27 Jul 2022 16:48

Jbarn wrote:
willyk wrote:
cowboyeagle05 wrote:It's trending away from the Central Business District to the Central Busy District. Aka not as much office central and slowly but surely more mix to include people living out the non-work life, sleeping and daily life needs.


So how is the core doing for low-key neighborhood retail businesses like we see in more mature high rise neighborhoods— dry cleaners, bodegas, take out meals, drug stores, flowers, tailors, day spas, UPS/FedEx, etc.? Can downtown residents get what they need without having to grab the car keys? Any hope for more of these businesses? Rejuvenate the old retail space in the tunnel system to service the new residential?



I would guess that the core fails miserably when it comes to providing basic needs to be considered a true neighborhood. Say for instance you are a tourist or convention attendee, you forget to pack underwear and socks. Other than paying outrageous prices at Neimans or 4510, where would you go for these basic necessities? Nowhere downtown, that’s where. You would have to take an expensive Uber ride to cityplace, northpark, etc...., just to purchase something that you should be able to walk a block to find. Want to buy some flowers, a book, some groceries? Sorry, but not downtown. It’s actually quite sad, and embarrassing, for a city the size of Dallas to have such a lacking center. It’s better than before, but still has so very long to go to be considered a real, vibrant, dynamic, stable center.


There's literally florists (and even a Nursery), cleaners, barbers / hair stylista, pharmacies, small grocer (not including Tom Thumb in VP ), there's no book stores (book stores are rare to begin with) but a nice amount of cafes/bars and eateries, post office, and even schools and churches .. as for underwear ... Not so much...

The main draw back for downtown is the lack of regular stores... TJ Maxx, Target, etc.. and DT needs a small Hardware shop, maybe some other medical services..Dr Office, Dentist, Vet etc.

Other than that..I disagree with everything you just posted!

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Jbarn
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby Jbarn » 28 Jul 2022 07:44

[code][/code]
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
Jbarn wrote:
willyk wrote:
So how is the core doing for low-key neighborhood retail businesses like we see in more mature high rise neighborhoods— dry cleaners, bodegas, take out meals, drug stores, flowers, tailors, day spas, UPS/FedEx, etc.? Can downtown residents get what they need without having to grab the car keys? Any hope for more of these businesses? Rejuvenate the old retail space in the tunnel system to service the new residential?



I would guess that the core fails miserably when it comes to providing basic needs to be considered a true neighborhood. Say for instance you are a tourist or convention attendee, you forget to pack underwear and socks. Other than paying outrageous prices at Neimans or 4510, where would you go for these basic necessities? Nowhere downtown, that’s where. You would have to take an expensive Uber ride to cityplace, northpark, etc...., just to purchase something that you should be able to walk a block to find. Want to buy some flowers, a book, some groceries? Sorry, but not downtown. It’s actually quite sad, and embarrassing, for a city the size of Dallas to have such a lacking center. It’s better than before, but still has so very long to go to be considered a real, vibrant, dynamic, stable center.


There's literally florists (and even a Nursery), cleaners, barbers / hair stylista, pharmacies, small grocer (not including Tom Thumb in VP ), there's no book stores (book stores are rare to begin with) but a nice amount of cafes/bars and eateries, post office, and even schools and churches .. as for underwear ... Not so much...

The main draw back for downtown is the lack of regular stores... TJ Maxx, Target, etc.. and DT needs a small Hardware shop, maybe some other medical services..Dr Office, Dentist, Vet etc.

Other than that..I disagree with everything you just posted!


So basically downtown is a community of 14,000 or so residents, 100,000+ workers, thousands of hotel rooms, convention attendees, tourists, etc...., but good luck if you want to buy basic goods or see a doctor/dentist/vet.

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Cbdallas
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby Cbdallas » 28 Jul 2022 09:31

One Urban Target placed centrally for walking distance would provide a huge boost.

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The_Overdog
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby The_Overdog » 28 Jul 2022 10:46

Target would be better, but you can buy underwear and socks at CVS if you aren't too picky about the limited selection.

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I45Tex
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby I45Tex » 28 Jul 2022 12:46

Cbdallas wrote:One Urban Target placed centrally for walking distance would provide a huge boost.


Once the opening date is firm for the four new D2 stations, it wouldn't shock me to see an urban Target break ground next to one of them. In fact I could see it being any of those four stations depending on momentum on the different sides of downtown by that point: which currently proposed developments are open and underway by then, or which ones aren't.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby IcedCowboyCoffee » 28 Jul 2022 13:32

After visiting Powells in Portland I have been clamoring for a bookstore in the CBD (My dream has always been to see that upper floor of Union Station turned into a bookstore with a cafe).
I'm not expecting a behemoth like Powells in the CBD--as much as I'd enjoy that--but it would be great if Half Price Books opened up a store somewhere within the loop like the west end.

Speaking more generally, in the transition of moving away from a business neighborhood into a mixed-use one, the CBD is hurting for spaces that will function as the "third place." The new parks are great, but in climates as hot as ours we need as many indoor "third places" as outdoor.

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mdg109
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby mdg109 » 28 Jul 2022 14:47

Yeah, DTD does have the basic services, but just not enough of them: for flowers, there's Farmers Market, Designs East Florist... not sure if Berkley's or CVS carries the cheaper ones; Books - you could go to Taschen at the Joule. I've bought several last minute gifts there. Definitely need more though. Groceries within the loop you have Berkley's, CVS, and numerous 7-Elevens, not to mention the basic stuff hotels already carry.

It would be cool to have a local dentist and vet. As for doctors, my primary Dr is over near Deep Ellum.

As for third places... agreed. We definitely need more. For now, I usually take friends to Exchange Hall/Discovery District, The Joule lobby/Weekend Coffee, The Adolphus library/lounge area, Statler lounge area. If we just want to grab coffee and hang: White Rhino, Parterre, Ottos, Berkley's.

If we could just get bodega type places, boutique/affordable retail to open up would be awesome.

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I45Tex
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby I45Tex » 28 Jul 2022 15:01

I would love for a groundswell movement to create a Deep Ellum-scaled small city block village pattern of laneways in the footprint of the Convention Center after its teardown— especially to foster bodegas and third places. How could that movement go public (besides TikTok)?

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JDumont146
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby JDumont146 » 29 Jul 2022 07:31

The Farmer's Market definitely operates as a Third Place for me and my family. It is way harder to stay out in downtown for a long time in the summer though, just because we usually spend so much time outside at the parks, walking from area to area, etc. A book store would be amazing, but I just can't see that ever happening with the rent prices downtown and how little money book stores make these days.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby LongonBigD » 29 Jul 2022 10:31

Duplicate
Last edited by LongonBigD on 29 Jul 2022 11:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby LongonBigD » 29 Jul 2022 11:04

LongonBigD wrote:[quote="JDumont146"A book store would be amazing, but I just can't see that ever happening with the rent prices downtown and how little money book stores make these days.


In a previous life, I was in the book business here in Dallas. In addition to the challenges you mention, I remember that Dallas was a difficult market for booksellers in general due to its low score on general readership indicators amongst the population. There were criteria that was measured when deciding where to add more “chain” bookstores. I want to say it included education levels, local college presence, per capital income spent on fine arts, and other criteria. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to be critical of Big D, just reporting what I knew at the time.

I do wonder now if that has changed with the influx of relocating residents in the past 20-25 years. Barnes & Noble is still closing DFW stores, but that could just be a symptom of the brick and mortar book business in general. I still lament the loss of the Borders Books & Music store which was in the West Village. It’s one of the reasons we chose to live in the Knox area.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby JDumont146 » 30 Jul 2022 12:20

LongonBigD wrote:
LongonBigD wrote:[quote="JDumont146"A book store would be amazing, but I just can't see that ever happening with the rent prices downtown and how little money book stores make these days.


In a previous life, I was in the book business here in Dallas. In addition to the challenges you mention, I remember that Dallas was a difficult market for booksellers in general due to its low score on general readership indicators amongst the population. There were criteria that was measured when deciding where to add more “chain” bookstores. I want to say it included education levels, local college presence, per capital income spent on fine arts, and other criteria. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to be critical of Big D, just reporting what I knew at the time.

I do wonder now if that has changed with the influx of relocating residents in the past 20-25 years. Barnes & Noble is still closing DFW stores, but that could just be a symptom of the brick and mortar book business in general. I still lament the loss of the Borders Books & Music store which was in the West Village. It’s one of the reasons we chose to live in the Knox area.


Interesting. Had no idea there was ever a Borders in The West Village.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby tamtagon » 30 Jul 2022 12:46

It does seem like one of the 'plazas' downtown would benefit from the interesting environment of a bookstore, and would find a way to help on open and stay in operation. Or, maybe the city library could branch out into one of the parks with a cafe and reading room setup.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby LongonBigD » 30 Jul 2022 13:02

JDumont146 wrote:Interesting. Had no idea there was ever a Borders in The West Village.


The building on the NE corner Lemmon and McKinney with the Chase branch was where it was. It was two-story and took up all the rest of the building except Chase space. The window on the second floor was a perfect view of DT Dallas before all the towers.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby ArtVandelay » 30 Jul 2022 13:38

Retail is challenging downtown. Take CVS for example - the one at Ross & Lamar was super sketchy and now it’s gone. The location on Main when it originally opened was super cool from the aspect it activated Main and Elm. It didn’t take long for them to close the Elm St. entrance because of shoplifting and you’re almost guaranteed to get panhandled or harassed at the Main St. entrance. Most of the 7-Eleven’s are sketchy. I witnessed a clerk chase what I presume was a homeless person out of the location at Elm and Akard with a pipe one day.

I know for a fact, companies that want to be downtown are staying away from the “Main St. Commercial District” because of the homeless. I lobbied for my firm to go into Comerica and from what the ultimate decision makers saw out on the street when we toured, I knew it wasn’t going to happen. BofA Plaza wasn’t even entertained because of proximity to the courthouses. We ended up in the Arts District.

The best commitment we’ve seen is Tom Thumb with their urban stores and those aren’t even inside the freeway loop. I don’t see Target happening.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby rono3849 » 30 Jul 2022 16:00

With Neiman's moving their headquarters out of Downtown, it wouldn't surprise me to see them shutter their Downtown store. It's already a mausoleum with virtually no one in the store. It's looked very rundown for a number of years. If more people actually move Downtown, maybe it will survive, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby Tucy » 30 Jul 2022 16:15

rono3849 wrote:With Neiman's moving their headquarters out of Downtown, it wouldn't surprise me to see them shutter their Downtown store. It's already a mausoleum with virtually no one in the store. It's looked very rundown for a number of years. If more people actually move Downtown, maybe it will survive, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.


Their agreement to accept the subsidy from the City of Dallas for keeping the headquarters within the Dallas city limits also requires N-M to keep their downtown flagship store open until at least 2031. So the mausoleum (perhaps in smaller form) will be with us for a while longer.
Last edited by Tucy on 13 Sep 2022 11:28, edited 1 time in total.

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rono3849
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby rono3849 » 30 Jul 2022 16:57

Tucy wrote:
rono3849 wrote:With Neiman's moving their headquarters out of Downtown, it wouldn't surprise me to see them shutter their Downtown store. It's already a mausoleum with virtually no one in the store. It's looked very rundown for a number of years. If more people actually move Downtown, maybe it will survive, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.


Their agreement to accept the subsidy from the City of Dallas for keeping the headquarters within the Dallas city limits also requires N-M to keep their downtown flagship store open until at least 2031. So the mausoleum (in perhaps in smaller form) will be with us for a while longer.


Maybe they could do a some minor sprucing up of the store. A coat of paint here, new displays there, new signage over there....anything to make it look like a Neiman-Marcus landmark.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby vman » 01 Aug 2022 08:05

rono3849 wrote:With Neiman's moving their headquarters out of Downtown, it wouldn't surprise me to see them shutter their Downtown store. It's already a mausoleum with virtually no one in the store. It's looked very rundown for a number of years. If more people actually move Downtown, maybe it will survive, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

I was surprised that both the downtown Neiman's and the Clearfork location in Fort Worth made it through the pandemic. I've heard they both are very low performing stores.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby MC_ScattCat » 01 Aug 2022 08:57

There are dentists in downtown. Mine is the Republic Center. I live in N. Oak Cliff and it's pretty convenient for me to go there (he has free parking for patients). If I lived closer to the red line or street car I'd use DART. I plan on getting an e bike soon so maybe then I could use the street car.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 12 Sep 2022 16:14

Why Empty Offices Are Becoming Apartments in Texas’s Big Cities

With workers continuing to stay home post-pandemic and housing in short supply, developers in the state’s largest metros are giving a second life to old buildings.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-polit ... nversions/

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vman
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby vman » 13 Sep 2022 09:01

Hannibal Lecter wrote:Why Empty Offices Are Becoming Apartments in Texas’s Big Cities

With workers continuing to stay home post-pandemic and housing in short supply, developers in the state’s largest metros are giving a second life to old buildings.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-polit ... nversions/

I find it amusing when it is mentioned that downtown Fort Worth and San Antonio have higher office occupancy rates than downtown Dallas or Houston.
In regards to office space, Fort Worth and San Antonio have so little that any comparison to Dallas or Houston is silly.

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby Tucy » 13 Sep 2022 11:58

rono3849 wrote:With Neiman's moving their headquarters out of Downtown, it wouldn't surprise me to see them shutter their Downtown store. It's already a mausoleum with virtually no one in the store. It's looked very rundown for a number of years. If more people actually move Downtown, maybe it will survive, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.


I got to spend a little time strolling around downtown mid-day on a Friday recently. Went in to Neiman-Marcus during the lunch hour. Your characterization of it as a mausoleum is spot on. I don't think I've ever seen such a quiet department store. I wandered over the entire store (which is only four partial floors, plus the Zodiac Room on 6) and I think I encountered two other customers the entire time I was in the store; one of them was apparently heading to the Zodiac Room for a very quiet lunch (she was the only person I could see in the restaurant).

Also went to Forty Five Ten... or tried to... Contrary to the hours posted on their door and website claiming to be open, the doors were locked.

Again, this was lunch time. If there's ever a time during the day one would expect to find shoppers in these stores, one would think it would be lunch time.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby Tnexster » 13 Sep 2022 12:13

Tucy wrote:
rono3849 wrote:With Neiman's moving their headquarters out of Downtown, it wouldn't surprise me to see them shutter their Downtown store. It's already a mausoleum with virtually no one in the store. It's looked very rundown for a number of years. If more people actually move Downtown, maybe it will survive, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.


I got to spend a little time strolling around downtown mid-day on a Friday recently. Went in to Neiman-Marcus during the lunch hour. Your characterization of it as a mausoleum is spot on. I don't think I've ever seen such a quiet department store. I wandered over the entire store (which is only four partial floors, plus the Zodiac Room on 6) and I think I encountered two other customers the entire time I was in the store; one of them was apparently heading to the Zodiac Room for a very quiet lunch (she was the only person I could see in the restaurant).

Also went to Forty Five Ten... or tried to... Contrary to the hours posted on their door and website claiming to be open, the doors were locked.

Again, this was lunch time. If there's ever a time during the day one would expect to find shoppers in these stores, one would think it would be lunch time.


That is consistent with my experience being downtown these days. I drive into the city and once i get inside the downtown loop there is no traffic, parking lots are empty and if I go out for lunch I can easily be alone on the sidewalk walking down towards Main St. I don't know how things stay open if nobody is around. The daytime population clearly isn't there anymore. And I don't know that it's coming back in a significant fashion. I know we are likely staying hybrid.

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby Tucy » 13 Sep 2022 12:19

Tnexster wrote:
Tucy wrote:
rono3849 wrote:With Neiman's moving their headquarters out of Downtown, it wouldn't surprise me to see them shutter their Downtown store. It's already a mausoleum with virtually no one in the store. It's looked very rundown for a number of years. If more people actually move Downtown, maybe it will survive, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.


I got to spend a little time strolling around downtown mid-day on a Friday recently. Went in to Neiman-Marcus during the lunch hour. Your characterization of it as a mausoleum is spot on. I don't think I've ever seen such a quiet department store. I wandered over the entire store (which is only four partial floors, plus the Zodiac Room on 6) and I think I encountered two other customers the entire time I was in the store; one of them was apparently heading to the Zodiac Room for a very quiet lunch (she was the only person I could see in the restaurant).

Also went to Forty Five Ten... or tried to... Contrary to the hours posted on their door and website claiming to be open, the doors were locked.

Again, this was lunch time. If there's ever a time during the day one would expect to find shoppers in these stores, one would think it would be lunch time.


That is consistent with my experience being downtown these days. I drive into the city and once i get inside the downtown loop there is no traffic, parking lots are empty and if I go out for lunch I can easily be alone on the sidewalk walking down towards Main St. I don't know how things stay open if nobody is around. The daytime population clearly isn't there anymore. And I don't know that it's coming back in a significant fashion. I know we are likely staying hybrid.


Yes, I actually noticed that all around on the sidewalks too. Quite a few closed restaurants (permanently closed). The ones that were open (again, this was at the peak of lunchtime) were very quiet. I saw one restaurant that could reasonably be called "busy". Every other one was very quiet, including the food court at AT&T Discovery District.

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby Tucy » 04 Apr 2023 12:01

Does anyone know the status of this residential conversion or of any of the others that were announced around the same time?

Energy Plaza
Renaissance
Bryan Tower
Santander

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Cbdallas
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby Cbdallas » 04 Apr 2023 15:17

Drove by Energy Plaza on Sunday and I noticed a large black boarding across the entire street side on the building lower 2 stories looks like they are or getting ready for construction.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby Tucy » 05 Jul 2023 21:00

Tucy wrote:
rono3849 wrote:With Neiman's moving their headquarters out of Downtown, it wouldn't surprise me to see them shutter their Downtown store. It's already a mausoleum with virtually no one in the store. It's looked very rundown for a number of years. If more people actually move Downtown, maybe it will survive, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.


I got to spend a little time strolling around downtown mid-day on a Friday recently. Went in to Neiman-Marcus during the lunch hour. Your characterization of it as a mausoleum is spot on. I don't think I've ever seen such a quiet department store. I wandered over the entire store (which is only four partial floors, plus the Zodiac Room on 6) and I think I encountered two other customers the entire time I was in the store; one of them was apparently heading to the Zodiac Room for a very quiet lunch (she was the only person I could see in the restaurant).

Also went to Forty Five Ten... or tried to... Contrary to the hours posted on their door and website claiming to be open, the doors were locked.

Again, this was lunch time. If there's ever a time during the day one would expect to find shoppers in these stores, one would think it would be lunch time.


I had another opportunity to take a stroll in downtown Dallas this past Friday afternoon, at around 3:30 pm. I was shocked at how dead it was again. The AT&T Discovery Plaza - was completely dead, including the food hall. I didn't see anyone on the sidewalks who looked like they were downtown residents or office workers. The only people I saw walking around looked like out-of-towners visiting for the holiday weekend. They all (not that there were a lot of them), but the ones who were strolling about looked like they were wondering where everyone was. Main Street Garden - the few people in the park looked like homeless taking advantage of seats in the shade.

Neiman Marcus - holy cow, I can see why they required a subsidy from the city to keep that store open. I went to all the floors that are open to customers and saw two customers. Especially now that they've moved the headquarters workers out of the building, I can't imagine this store will stay open past the date they agreed to with the city (actually, I'd be surprised if they don't renegotiate that. That store has to be a complete money pit for them. They could probably come out ahead by rejecting the money from the city, closing the downtown store and selling the property.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby I45Tex » 05 Jul 2023 21:10

Good thing that an hour before quitting time on a potential long holiday weekend in the summer is an unrepresentative sample.

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby Tucy » 05 Jul 2023 21:44

I45Tex wrote:Good thing that an hour before quitting time on a potential long holiday weekend in the summer is an unrepresentative sample.


With the exception of the curious out-of-towners who weren't present the last time, it exactly matches what I saw on my last visit (at lunch time on a Friday (non-holiday weekend)). . . so it's kinda looking like it might be a representative sample... (and reports of vendors in AT&T's food hall struggling, also suggest it might be a representative sample)

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby R1070 » 05 Jul 2023 22:05

I think DTD has a good amount of foot traffic. Especially considering the whole hybrid work thing.

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Tucy
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby Tucy » 05 Jul 2023 22:16

R1070 wrote:I think DTD has a good amount of foot traffic. Especially considering the whole hybrid work thing.


I'll bet you can't find very many restaurant operators who would agree with that.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby vman » 06 Jul 2023 07:31

I45Tex wrote:Good thing that an hour before quitting time on a potential long holiday weekend in the summer is an unrepresentative sample.

I guess it has become very hit and miss downtown activity wise. I was downtown on an early Friday evening a little under a month ago and it was very lively at around 6 pm. It's a shame because it seems the pandemic really slowed the momentum of retail/restaurants downtown. I was even in Sundance Square in Fort Worth about a year ago and was surprised at how many places had closed. So, I think downtown activity might be inconsistent right now, but I feel confident in its comeback.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby MC_ScattCat » 06 Jul 2023 09:51

I drive through downtown about 2 to 3 times a month and it's usually pretty busy. My main issues with downtown is it needs more residents and retail for them to walk not drive to (grocery stores in particular). The other issue is I wish they would redo the area around Dealey Plaza. I know it's a dark moment in our city's history but sooo many people go there. Why not make it nicer? I liked what DMN did as a concept for it.

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby mdg109 » 06 Jul 2023 14:57

I've been downtown a few times recently in the morning both weekends and weekdays, and I'm always surprised at the steady foot traffic along EMC. I always expect it to be dead, but I'm always pleasantly surprised. I'll do another visit soon. Anecdotally, Wild Salsa is set to reopen for dinner service soon after three years being shuttered. So maybe it gets livelier in the evenings?

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby mhainli » 06 Jul 2023 14:58

MC_ScattCat wrote:I drive through downtown about 2 to 3 times a month and it's usually pretty busy. My main issues with downtown is it needs more residents and retail for them to walk not drive to (grocery stores in particular). The other issue is I wish they would redo the area around Dealey Plaza. I know it's a dark moment in our city's history but sooo many people go there. Why not make it nicer? I liked what DMN did as a concept for it.

There is something in the planning phase for DP I believe. Challenge will be to do something tasteful around the periphery but not overdo it. Most want to see the immediate area preserved as much as possible.

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I45Tex
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby I45Tex » 13 Jul 2023 11:33

Deleted post

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I45Tex
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby I45Tex » 13 Jul 2023 17:49

Tucy wrote:
R1070 wrote:I think DTD has a good amount of foot traffic. Especially considering the whole hybrid work thing.


I'll bet you can't find very many restaurant operators who would agree with that.


Ok I’ll bet that you will bet on that sort of thing. :) Nevertheless your ambitions to get on past the hot air and rhetoric and fluff pieces never get around to showing what you wish DTD were ambitious to be, so, …how do you want Energy Plaza or Dealey Plaza or Akard Plaza or Plaza of the Americas to actually become for people? What is worth doing? :? Or do you think that it’s too speculative to discuss it until someone figures out that it is in demand at a viable price?

Must I suspect you of being Steve Brown’s own afterwork alter ego where nothing is going to work but it isn’t happening anyway so that’s what’s news? What are the right questions? What’s happening downtown besides plenty of investors testing the calm waters while plenty of people who like the neighborhood remain priced out?

Tnexster
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby Tnexster » 17 Jul 2023 12:32

^The point was valid, foot traffic isn't the same. ON that note, nice story about how this is playing out in most cities.

Downtown revitalization strategies will need to go beyond office conversions, experts say

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... 8#cxrecs_s

More than three years after the onset of the Covid-19 pandemic, many U.S. downtowns have yet to fully recover, in large part because of sluggish return-to-office activity but also due to concerns about public safety. Data from Placer.ai's nationwide office building index, which looks at foot-traffic data from 800 office properties across the country, reported the first half of 2023 saw foot traffic to offices down 39.7% compared to the same period four years ago.


To successfully revitalize a downtown, industry principals say there should be more cohesion among real estate owners and others spearheading downtown revitalization efforts.

In a typical downtown, buildings have many different owners, all of whom have competing visions and goals to at least some extent for their properties, said Louis Archambault, partner and vice chair of the real estate practice at Saul Ewing Arnstein & Lehr LLP.

In the wake of the pandemic, cities are preparing to face some amount of a shortfall in tax collections from commercial properties — namely, office towers with rising vacancy — as valuations decline amid a weaker leasing market.

As trillions of debt backing commercial properties is set to expire in the coming years — and in a much higher interest-rate environment than when those properties were initially financed — the risk of bankruptcies and foreclosures of office towers is arguably higher than it's been in decades.
In some ways, that distressed situation could create an opportunity for one person or one developer to buy up properties — likely at a discount — and create a unified district, Archambault said.

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Pinhi
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby Pinhi » 20 Jul 2023 15:28

The 800-lb gorilla in the room is crime. The anti-police movement, the defund the police movement and the no bail revolving door policies that allow criminals to offend many multiple times - all have to be addressed before things get better. Dallas is far better than most. Criminals have been emboldened and know there are no real consequences.

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Cmacemm
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby Cmacemm » 20 Jul 2023 15:50

Pinhi wrote:The 800-lb gorilla in the room is crime. The anti-police movement, the defund the police movement and the no bail revolving door policies that allow criminals to offend many multiple times - all have to be addressed before things get better. Dallas is far better than most. Criminals have been emboldened and know there are no real consequences.

:roll:

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Addison
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby Addison » 20 Jul 2023 18:10

Pinhi wrote:The 800-lb gorilla in the room is crime. The anti-police movement, the defund the police movement and the no bail revolving door policies that allow criminals to offend many multiple times - all have to be addressed before things get better. Dallas is far better than most. Criminals have been emboldened and know there are no real consequences.


Sir, this is a Wendy's...

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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby lakewoodhobo » 20 Jul 2023 20:16

Pinhi wrote:The 800-lb gorilla in the room is crime. The anti-police movement, the defund the police movement and the no bail revolving door policies that allow criminals to offend many multiple times - all have to be addressed before things get better. Dallas is far better than most. Criminals have been emboldened and know there are no real consequences.


I worked in Downtown Dallas 15 years and lived there for 2. It's an absolute miracle that I survived to tell the tale.

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I45Tex
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby I45Tex » 20 Jul 2023 21:32

I read dead people!

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ArtVandelay
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby ArtVandelay » 08 Sep 2023 10:11

The walls are going up! Soon to be downtown's newest gated community.

https://imgur.com/a/xS6PSir

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mdg109
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby mdg109 » 08 Sep 2023 11:55

I saw that too, and was so disappointed. It's bad enough TGS park is semi walled off, and now this.

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potatocoins
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby potatocoins » 08 Sep 2023 14:47

Wow, I have no words..lol.

Tnexster
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby Tnexster » 02 Feb 2024 09:48

Downtown Dallas office tower ready for reopening after $300 million makeover
The 49-story Energy Plaza skyscraper is now called The Sinclair apartment and office high-rise.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... -makeover/

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Cbdallas
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Re: Downtown Dallas: Energy Plaza

Postby Cbdallas » 05 Feb 2024 11:40

Love those outdoor balcony fireplaces.